I have a friends Freedom .454 Casull here that has not been shot very much. I slugged the bore for Lar45's info.
I found the transfer bar does not work and the gun would fire if the hammer is struck. I stripped and cleaned the gun thinking it was gunked up.
Inspecting the parts I found there is a tiny section of the trigger that contacts a very tiny projection of the pawl to push up the transfer bar. Both parts showed only a few thousandths wear and was enough to stop transfer bar action.
This is a very dangerous and maybe fatal flaw in the design.
If I owned one I would immediately check this. You can do it easy be seeing if the hammer is all the way down or just push a cleaning rod with a jag on it through the bore and cylinder to see if the hammer moves back when the jag touches the firing pin. An unsafe condition is when the pin is projecting so the jag can push on it. A gun in this condition is only safe with 4 rounds in the chambers.
This repair requires a new trigger and pawl. Expect to pay shipping!

bfrshooter: The FA 83 doesn't have a Ruger style tansfer bar system. In the safety position (different from the fired position, you have to manually put it in the safety position), the hammer is held away from the firing pin +/- 1/16".

Are you saying you had it in this position and it was still touching the firing pin?

I don't know how strong their safety position is, and I believe FA does not recommend using it to carry 5 shots...but yours would be the first time I had heard of it contacting the firing pin while in the proper position.

dvnv

This is a 97 with the transfer bar. The 83 is different with a manual safety.

Didn't know Freedom Arms made a 454 Casull in their smaller framed Model 97.
Thought the 454 Casull was only produced in the larger framed Model 83.

The Mod 97 is not chambered in .454. You're really out to get Freedom Arms aren't you?

The .454 Casull is built only on the Model 83 frame. The owner's manual discusses carrying the revovler with the hammer down on a empty chamber.

This is not news that the firing pin protrudes when the hammer is fully forward. This is not news that one can push the rear of the firing pin froward and cause the front of the firing pin to protrude from the front of the breech face.

This is not news that you appear to continue to suffer from a case of FA envy.

I am not sure, just that the current web page only shows the 97 with the transfer bar. This gun has no number on it to tell me the model. It is an older gun.
The only thing this gun says is Freedom arms 454 Casull, Freedom, Wyoming USA and on the other side it says Freedom Arms, Premier Grade.
If my designation is wrong, so what?
What I am telling you is that if you have any model with the transfer bar, check and make sure it works before loading all the chambers. How much more clear can I make it?
My friend was not aware it didn't work and always loaded 5 rounds, depending on a safety that was non-existant. He always has his children with him when he shoots, am I wrong to post a warning?

You really need to get your facts straight before you go railing off on the FAs again. You have been looking at a Model 83. NO MODEL 97S ARE CHAMBERED FOR THE .454 CASULL ROUND.

As I stated earlier, you are not discussing any breaking news regarding these revolvers. THE MANUAL INSTRUCTS THE OWNER TO CARRY THE REVOLVER ON AN EMPTY CHAMBER. The Model 83 does not have a transfer bar system. This sounds like something you have cooked up, because your statements are so far off based.

I see this "warning" as little more than a thinly veiled gripe on the FAs. If you plan to continue these tirades, you are no longer welcome here, hear?

Transfer bars are a politically correct lawyer motivated way to ruin the looks and the feel of a perfectly wonderful and time honored single action revolver. And from the "get go" the rule was always hammer over an empty cylinder.
There is no "safety" on any firearm. The "safety" lies in the mental conditioning and training of the bearer of the piece.

Regardless of one's thought's on the transfer bar system; the contents of the original post haven't a shred of crediability as well as having already been addressed by the manufacturer regardling the firing pin protrusion occurring when the hammer is resting fully forward.

Folks need to know what they are talking about before raising red flags and trying to get people stirred up.

OK, I got the number wrong! Does this detract from the transfer bar not working? Why did Freedom put a transfer bar in the gun if they say to leave an empty chamber under the firing pin? They knew the design would fail, thats why! How many owners leave the empty chamber? Those I know depend on the transfer bar.
Why put something in a gun if it is of no use?

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
The 83 is different with a manual safety.

That's the one thing you've got right! The gun in question is an 83; it does not have a transfer bar! . If the hammer is all the way down, then you haven't activated the manual safety. If you don't understand how it works, you don't have any business running it down.

Just for fun, let's back up to your original statement. Do you understand what a transfer bar does? If this was a transfer bar action, and the trigger was failing to move the transfer bar into position, that would mean that the gun wouldn't fire.

As an American President once said "There you go again"!
Peter.

Freedom Arms doesn't put a transfer bar on the Mdl. 83, and never did. They never called it one. It isn't there. It never was. How the hell is it supposed to work if it doesn't exist?
This type and frequency of post is too tiring.

In my not so humble opinion, a brief FAQ should be pinned on every firearm forum regarding the instructions of the so called Freedom Arms safety device used on their Model 83.

The short of it is, that hunters have died and have been injured in the field because the FA was loaded with five rounds and the hammer struck inadvertantly.

The FA 83 should have a transfer bar, the 97 has one for crying outloud.

When folks here head to the bush full of adrenaline and bear tales it's a mite difficult to convince them to just load four cartridges.
Even the owner of FA Bob Baker mentioned he had both his FAs (.475 & 454) fully loaded on a recent brownie hunt in which he fired all ten rounds.

As an RSO at both public ranges I mention the safety problems involved with both the old Rugers and the 83 and yet mostly recieve a blank look or a, "why would I only carry 4 or five when it holds more?"

A holstered and fully loaded Ruger OM Blackhawk .44 Mag nearly removed a gals leg when the guns hammer bumped into the jeep. The wounds from a near contact distance 180HP nearly killed the gal.

We as part of the gun community need to get the word out that certain firearms require special care, have ya checked out any old Remington triggers for safety lately?

Maybe the solution is that people that can not safely operate overly-complicated firearms such as the Freedom Arms 83 or the Colt SAA should stick to less complicated firearms like the T/C Contender, and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy our dangerous hobby of shooting 83's and SAA's.

So David, nothing really to add eh?

At least Ruger has placed safety warnings in all the major and minor firarms publications.

monte,

In my not so humble opinion, people who either can not or will not learn to handle a firearm in a responsible manner. Also, a modicum of common sense goes a long way towards keeping one safe from the negligent discharges of firearms.

In my not so humble opinion, people who either can not or will not learn to handle a firearm in a responsible manner have no business handling one. I have the same opinion regarding the issuance of "warnings". At least learn enough to have amessage that is somewhat credible.

A modicum of common sense goes a long way towards keeping one safe from the negligent discharges of firearms.

monte you wouldn't happen to be related to Ralph Nader would you, I mean warning labels and all.
Seriously if you don't like the way they are made then simply don't get one, their are certainly cheaper handguns out there that should fit your bill like the BFR or Newer Ruger Blackhawks.

Warning labels? No, I said all the forums should have a pinned FAQ and we shooters should assist the noobs.
I hate the lawyer speak on Rugers as much as anyone, nevermind the PIA removing it from the barrels.
David, no brag here, I've shot and owned more Freedom Arms than most folks on the planet tho HHI812 here (hiya Dennis!) has had a good many also.
The original poster here apparantly does not have an FA manual to explain the safety mechanism on the 83s (call FA and get one?) but, if in fact this man is a gun guy and hasn't figured out the partial cock and manual counterclockwise cylinder rotation to engage the firing pin block.....need I beat the dead horse anymore?
You FA fans ought to lobby to get the transfer bar, do you realize that current and future litigation will destroy FA?

I like my FA 83s just the way they are thank you; no need to change them by adding a transfer bar.

As to the FAQs, there is far too much misinformation floating around on the internet as it is, just adding to it gets even more confusing. If one needs information on a particular product, start with the manufacturer.

Moderator: Please lock this. It's clear this guy has no knowledge of the pistols he's trying to trash, and, those of us that do, don't want to bother reading such fabricated trash.

GS

If I could post a picture here I could show you the bar at the left side of the hammer that is supposed to raise when the hammer is down. There is a spring loaded pawl or lever in the side of the hammer that projects out to catch a portion of the trigger to push the bar up with mainspring pressure. Those of you that have an 83 without one can't say that there were none built with a transfer bar!
It is a piece of crap design that only works when the hammer is fully down. If the gun is on half cock and dropped, the trigger can shear and there would be no transfer bar in place to stop the gun from firing. That is the reason they say to leave an empty chamber under the hammer. Then why have a transfer bar?????? Hundreds of dollars worth of machining and parts for nothing! False security!
Ruger has one but if it ever breaks, (Never, ever, heard of such a thing.) the gun will not fire if beat on with a sledge hammer. You would have to beat the rear of the frame for weeks to peen the metal down to the firing pin.
I might make a mistake over a model number, but most Freedom owners don't know a damned thing either.

55 years as a gunsmith,plus 42 years "in the airline industry" but can't afford to buy components whenever needed ?? Seems like maybeso you know as much about running a business as you did about lineboring revolvers,Eh? bfrshooter(aka 44man,et al) ?? Idabull

BFRSHOOTER: You are the thickest headed and I put this kindly idiot I've ever seen. Instead of shutting up and going by the saying: "It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" You keep running your mouth and making your self look stupider each time your pie hole opens. The FA M83 and I have one of mine in front of me at this very time does not have a transfer bar, safety notch etc. It has a hammer block that is apiece of steel that when the hammer is pulled back approximately .4 inch till you hear the first click it will activate and slid upward just far enough to go between the frame and the hammer preventing the hammer from resting on the firing pin.
After hearing the first click the hammer is then eased down upon the steel block and the hammer rests roughly .070 off the frame.
The reason freedom recommends carrying only 4 in the gun they know there are people like you out there that doesn't know what they are talking about and will try to do thing their own way disregarding all written instruction etc. because of their own high opinion of their knowledge which most of the time is not as great as they think it is.
You sir should go by the old saying: When you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is stop digging.
It is clear that you don't know what you are talking about to everyone except yourself.
Oh yes the second click is when the gun is in the loading notch mode. The first click is the activation mode for the safety block. Not transfer bar which they never had one in the first place.
When activated the trigger can move back and forth freely although under normal spring tension.

Gentlemen( and I mean everyone);

This is getting out of hand. I expect you act as adults and I see very little of this.

bfrshooter, you apparently do not know what you are talking about. You have had this whole transfer bar matter explained to you numerous times. You are wrong and you need to either admit it, or move on.

Meplat, your stepping into the fracus with name calling isn't going to be tolerated either. If this is the best you can add to the forum, shove off and find another place to light; you aren't welcome here with the type posts you are making.

I am a Freedom Arms owner, I do not play one of television and I happen to know a great deal about many subjects.

You don't need to post a picture; the gun you're looking at is just like every other Model 83, and that still isn't a transfer bar. Your own earlier post acknowledged that the Model 83 had a manual safety instead of a transfer bar, and that's what you're looking at.

"I am a Freedom Arms owner, I do not play one of television and I happen to know a great deal about many subjects."

Just what does this mean MS HITMAN?

Do you know?

Me_Plat,

If I were you I wouldnt visit this site or atleast this section anymore. Its ok for someone to bash a firearm every time the said person gets a chance but when people get fed up with it and call him out it is not tolerated. This is Bullsh1t. I admit you can be annoying but where is there a law against this.

I just dont understand these forums on this site. Atleast once a week there is a pissing contest between the DKA's( damn know it alls). I wish this would stop. There could be a lot of useful information obtained from here but it is clouded by ignorance and pride.

If I could make a request I think people should respect other people's opinions on this site but the bickering should not be tolerated just as the name calling isnt. Be fair moderators. Nobody wants to come here to listen to drama between people who think they know it all.

Also, while I am on the subject. People, have enough respect for the people who read this and who ask genuine questions to answer them with knowledge and not hearsay or what you think you know. In other words if you dont know what you are talking about(be honest you know when you dont) please refrain from misinforming someone who is expecting to get a real answer.

Nacho: I concede you are absolutely right. Everyone has the right to believe anyway they want.
BFRSHOOTER is /was wrong but is caught up in himself and I did not help the subject.
The word idiot by definition meand stupid or foolish person a definition I thought accurately describe him. I was wrong.

That is as much as an apology as this forum or MS HITMAN or BFRSHOOTER is going to get.
He is still wrong though.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
If I could post a picture here I could show you the bar at the left side of the hammer that is supposed to raise when the hammer is down. There is a spring loaded pawl or lever in the side of the hammer that projects out to catch a portion of the trigger to push the bar up with mainspring pressure. Those of you that have an 83 without one can't say that there were none built with a transfer bar!
It is a piece of crap design that only works when the hammer is fully down. If the gun is on half cock and dropped, the trigger can shear and there would be no transfer bar in place to stop the gun from firing. That is the reason they say to leave an empty chamber under the hammer. Then why have a transfer bar?????? Hundreds of dollars worth of machining and parts for nothing! False security!
Ruger has one but if it ever breaks, (Never, ever, heard of such a thing.) the gun will not fire if beat on with a sledge hammer. You would have to beat the rear of the frame for weeks to peen the metal down to the firing pin.
I might make a mistake over a model number, but most Freedom owners don't know a damned thing either.

When in a hole stop DIGGING,you are losing all credability here The Model 83 does not nor has ever had a transfer bar

quote:

Originally posted by Me_Plat:
"I am a Freedom Arms owner, I do not play one of television and I happen to know a great deal about many subjects."

Just what does this mean MS HITMAN?

Do you know?

It's just something for you to ponder while shooting 100 yard offhand groups with your revolvers. Think about it a while.

Sorry, but pulling to the first click allows the hammer to return to the firing pin. The edge of the trigger is worn enough so it does not catch the lever. The bar does NOT raise.
When I say the damned thing doesn't work, it doesn't work!

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Now you know they don't have a transfer bar system only a hammer block system. So the top of the trigger is worn? Did the owner ever have the idea to send the gun back to have it repaired?
Did you ever have the idea to send it back to be repaired?
Did someone work on the gun and do something to the top of the trigger?
Did you even try to figure it out before you got on there forums and started your bashing of the FA guns?
All you needed to post was FA owners be careful a buddy had one that the hammer block is not working on instead of going on about a transfer bar system etc. and slamming FA guns simply because something happened to one. They are mechanical you know. Things happen to all brands at one time or the other.
You sir, should be more careful before posting so you will know what you are talking about just like I should have been more kind with my responses instead of being blunt and to the point therefore raising the ire of MS HITMAN.

Here are the owner's manuals:

http://stevespages.com/pdf/freedomarms_83.pdf

http://stevespages.com/pdf/freedomarms_97.pdf

My bad! I have to go to the black board and write Safety, not transfer bar, 10,000 times.
Anyway it didn't work and I fixed it this morning by making a new Lever, pawl, or what ever it is called. Jump on me and trash me all you want if I name the part wrong. Neither of us has any paper work or manuals and it is the first time I have had one apart. The only way the hammer would stay off the firing pin was at half cock.
I made a new lever to fit in the hammer and made it a few thousandths longer at the bottom edge. I cleaned up the edge of the trigger too. I used tool steel, hardened and tempered it so it will never wear again. The whole corner of the original was rounded off so the trigger would just slide over it.
I have to apologize for using the wrong names and all the guys that trashed me---I deserved it. My friend also called it a transfer bar because he lost the manual when he moved.
I can only say I am sorry but it was still a safety issue that can't be denied. My friend has learned the lesson and will only load 4 rounds from now on.

Gentlemen,
We all enjoy spending money on our favorite firearms, right? What better a method that could have avoided all this controversy than to buy the Premier Grade. Unlimited Lifetime Warranty. Or atleast thats what my paperwork says. This fine single action could then have been sent back to Wyoming. Done!
Mine-10 inch, 3# trigger, action job(factory), hardened replaceable forcing cone, Premier Grade. I love mine. I am thinking as I get older about sending to Magna-Port. If I ever have any problems with mine it is going back to Wyoming.
Andy

secret is out though, they will cover the field grade typically as well. just seems they are so bent on perfection they can't seem to let any imperfections run around out there. i've sent my field grade back with an offer to cover any extra charges needed and i've yet to be charge other than for extra cylinders etc.

quote:

secret is out though, they will cover the field grade typically as well. just seems they are so bent on perfection they can't seem to let any imperfections run around out there. i've sent my field grade back with an offer to cover any extra charges needed and i've yet to be charge other than for extra cylinders etc.

Pos

secret is out though, they will cover the field grade typically as well. just seems they are so bent on perfection they can't seem to let any imperfections run around out there. i've sent my field grade back with an offer to cover any extra charges needed and i've yet to be charge other than for extra cylinders etc.

Pos..ooops, my poor copy/paste skills left POS!

My experience with FA and Casull stretches from '76 till now. Having spent well over $20K for FAs for my customers and myself I believe I have insights that the owner of one (1) FA may not be aware of.

I remember when Wayne (an honorable and perfectionist kind of man) ran FA, then the spoiled liar son took over, some call it the Bake-Over.

The quality of FA took a nose dive when profit became the priority over quality under new management.

Examples could include Premiere models that would not chamber five cartridges yet had test targets included with five holes? Egg shaped forcing cones, (a different .475) or a barrel that unscrewed (yet another example) or a new 97 with a broken bolt spring within 500 rds (FA demanded the gun returned to inspect the spring and would not just mail a spring!)

Well, until the owner of FA posted pics and stories of his grizz hunt here, and we knew the guide that recorded his hunt (grin).

Suddenly I could order parts for my broken (FA changed it's parts policy after Randy the back room guru was fired and parts could not be ordered, the gun had to be returned?)

Yep, the owner of FA had lied about his hunt (well, at least I could pay for parts w/o shipping the gun back, btw, Randy shipped them N/C) never mind his statements that----sorry, I'm bored with this tonite.

Hey Bob! We've done this before eh? Maybe I'll start a thread on Firing LIne which as we both know is a google search able data base.

Sue me I dare you! Having taken a rifle case full of FAs to the local FA dealer to define POS guns and meeting at same dealer with FAs representative right here in bohunk WANNA PLAY?