Just looking for some opinions. I'm going to start some limited handgun hunting this year at a friends place that is set up for bow hunting. Whitetail and hogs and I expect all the shots to be between 10 and 30 yards. Anyone with experience with the 40 S&W for hunting? I was thinking about some of the Corbon loads. I'll be using my Browning HP which I just test fired the first 200 rounds today, I'll have a 1.5x scope mounted on it for hunting.

Thanks,

10-30 yds and you're going to use a scope ? I wouldn't use my 40 on deer or hog .It might work but too much chance that it wouldn't. A 10mm would be abetter choice ,or a 41 or 44 mag. In any case use one of the heavier bullets ,premium type. Penetration should be the major consideration, especially on hogs.

Frankly, I'm astonished. Astonished that you need a scope at 30 yards, astonished that you'd go out intending to use the .40 S&W for a hunt (NOTE: illegal in VA), and astonished that you'd ask about it here. Well, this is a handgun hunting question. This is the best forum for it.< !--color-->



IMHO, I would hunt with a .40, for cats, groundhogs and maybe fox. I would not use a scope (or need one???) for appropriate ranges which are contact to about 30 yards (for hunting).

Well Hobie, you're sure an astonished fellow aren't you. I sure do wish I was as amazing as you are. Although I shot bulleye pistol for many years, that was back in my Navy days in the 70's. With my eyes I'm a lot more comfortable with a scope or red dot sight, you know it's kind of difficult sometimes to get the bifocals lined up correctly for precision shooting with a pistol. BTW, my .22 bullseye gun still wears a red dot,even just shooting at 25 yards.

Quite frankly I don't give a shit about the laws in Virginia.

Why are you astonished that I would ask about it here (handgun hunting forum)? I was interested in whether this caliber was reasonable for hunting, most of the other forums have a lot of experienced people who will give you a valid opinion (I'll pass on yours I think). I actually know several people who hunt with 357's for deer size game, taking care with their shots (and using a scope!!!), didn't realize the 40 was that much worse.

I'll bet you've never really had a "humble" opinion, now have you Hobie.

Thanks Mete, yes, I almost always use a scope when I can, damned old age and bifocals. Putting the crosshairs where they appear to be in the same plane as the target just makes it much easier. If I see a concensus on the 40 being too light I may look at the EAA Hunter in 10MM. I was kind of thinking if the 40 was reasonable at close ranges it could do double duty.

If it's legal, sure why not? There are better choices of course, the 40 being but an incremental improvement on the 9x19, but if your whitetail are average to small and the feral pigs no heavier than the average screwdriver-armed hophead a 180 grain .40 hollowpoint ought to suffice. As one who hunts with both the bow and pistol I recommend you hold out for a double lung broadside. Be sure to let us know how it turns out. Good hunting!

Hey BGuy I love hunting with a handgun and have had quite a bit of good luck with several. As long as it is legal to hunt with a pitchfork in your area then go for it, if it suits you. I have a friend back home that carries a 45 ACP 1911-A1 after he gets his first Deer meat of the season and he does fairly well, his shots are at deer that are not alarmed, usually at no more than 25 to 35 yds. You said the majic word for me EAA. I have several of the Witness line, 9mm, 40 S&W, 357 Sig., 45 ACP and 10mm. I would love to take some of the small Whitetails back home with the 357Sig. I think if you stick with mcb's recommendation on the shot the 40 will be OK, I would feel more comfortable with the 10mm. With the 10 you could increase your max range if you were comfortable. What ever you use just have fun and the main thing is to enjoy the hunt itself. Did I mention I like the Witness?

Steve E...........

I think the EAA witness is an excellent gun and affordable also. I have shot deer with a 357 and had no complaints. I have not shot a pig yet. I would think the 40 loaded with a 180 JSP or hard cast would do fine. Just from what I've heard, I think I'd stay away from the JHPs for the Pigs, but they should work fine on deer. I hear ya about the eyes thing, mine just don't seem to be able to focus as well as they used to. You might look into one of the lighted recticle scopes, I like mine.

Would a .40 work on deer?

You bet! I've heard it mentioned before, something to the effect of "if we trust such weapons to stop a full grown adrenaline charged angry human at these ranges, i'm sure it would do the job fine on passive vegetarian quadrapeds".

My 9mm does fine at close ranges, but if you couldn't hit the little guy's with a softball, I'd just snap a photo of them.

79

Then has been a fun read. I would not hesitate to use a hi-power to shoot deer at 30 yards. I own a 40 hi-power and can hit bowling pins consistantly at 50 yards. With a little common sense it would make a fine hunting pistol.

A couple of weeks ago Hobie was comparing the 357 to the 30 WCF and beleaved (sp?) the two were similar out of a carbine.

Thanks guys, I'll keep practicing with it and see how I feel in the fall. The deer would be spikes and does only, he only shoots trophy bucks with bows. I'd plan on staying on the small size for pigs, I've got lots of rifles for the really big porkers.

I'll also give one of the lighted recticle scopes a try as LAR45 suggested.

I have a Rossi M92 in 357 mag. I'm thinking of loading some 180gn hard cast bullets with 2400 in the 50ksi range. I'm thinking that it will give velocities in the 1900fps range which sounds pretty close to the 30-30. The velocity might be abit short but it still should be effective and pretty close.

At the short yardages your thinking, with proper placement of a good bullet.......a forty would work. Aren't your TX deer little guys anyway?? Heck I have killed dozens and dozens of road hit muleys and whiteys on the job with 147 subsonics in a 9mm. You set up the shot so you catch the heart/lung area and they die. Our new SIG229's in .357 SIG work better though.
I have never found ANY deer if hit in the heart/lung area to be particularly tough to kill.

Have NO idea on hogs as the only hogs I've ever killed were of the wart variety and I used a .375 H&H as that was what I had with me.

Most all of it boils down to PLACEMENT.

FN in MT

Lar, I am sure it will work. However I have never seen data that showed more that 1600-1800 fps with a 180 GR bullet. Most of my data shows 1400 fps or less.

Anyway, the 30-30 will throw a 170 GR at least 2150 without dangerous pressure.

Hobie, I apologize for the dig.

I personally wouldn't use the .40. Others have had far better results with smaller calibers and marginal guns than I, but the .357 has given miserable results with good hits for me on game. The .44 mag is the smallest I'll use for deer unless I'm out with something smaller for other purposes and a great opportunity at close range presents itself.

Quite frankly, I think that the .40 S&W is a cartridge that will work, as I said. I would not choose to use it particularly if I had others better suited. Deer aren't armor plated but this is sport not survival. Ditto for hogs.

If I had to, well, I could make it work. There's a big difference between "works well" and "will work". If you have to use it you should use it with whatever load you would carry in it for self-defense. I just don't see that it matters enough to change the ammo. I think that you absolutely cannot take marginal shots, at least not ethically.

I've been working with the 10mm Auto, the .40 S&W's bigger brother, and I've come to the conclusion that it is marginal past 50 yards on most platforms. I certainly wouldn't use it past 75 yards. In the Glocks and Sigmas in which I've shot the .40 S&W, most are accurate enough on the range (as are their shooters) but things (and particularly shooters) go downhill in action.

Yep, still astonished.

well,year before last i shot a buck deer at around 30yards with my glock 22 .40 with a ,"well"it was either a win.155gr,silvertip or a corbon 135gr.hp(*i had them mixed in the magazine),id imagine it was the 135gr.corbon load(due to the report of the round going off and light recoil),high lung hit and the sob dropped at the shot and its legs went straight up in the air,jeese the 2 guys with me saw the shot and they couldnt believe that shot and how the deer just went down like it was struck by lightning,hell,even i was suprised,...but yeah high lung hit and it went down at the shot!!in and out penetration too....shot a smaller deer many years ago,3 times with the shotgun,then i pulled my gp100 .357 and shot 'em with 6 rounds of 180 gr.reloads at 1380fps starting velocity ,the shot was around 30yards,jeese this deer was hopped upon adrenaline due to the dogs chasing it,that deer had its whole chest cavity riddled with buckshot and 6 rounds of hot 357 loads and was still wanting to get up,or trying anyways..sometimes,with that occurence i dont want to ever see a animal do that again.every shot was fatal,but damn,i dont ever want to hunt a animal and see it try to survive so bad..ill never forget that experience..adrenaline kept that animal up and fighting even with one front leg broken...i say if anyones gonna hunt game at least kill the animal instantly,no suffering or that mental experience of what they would have....thats why i believe in the higher velocity rounds(over 3200fps start rounds),they generally do the lights out on impact deal....anyways ,just my opinion and previous experience....

If you want to use your 40 I would heed the advice of just about everybody thats posted so far...double lung and close. Just about every deer I have shot with a 12 guage double lung has run at least 50 yards but they have all died. Point is--from my experience anyway--double lung and they run no matter what they are hit with but they all die too soon as they run outta gas.

Just an afterthought, I once shot a deer in the back of the head with a 9mm nosler 115 gr. jhp reload and it came out the top of its head and didnt make a very big exit hole. Of course the deer died in about 10 seconds. About a week later I shot another deer of just about the same size with a 45 colt 255gr. swc keith style handload at probably about 850 to 900 fps. in exactly the same place. The bullet went STRAIGHT thru and came out its face--it tried to take one breath and it was dead. Penetration means everything and with a 40 you have to go for the "soft" spots....

If you handload and are willing to drop a heavy spring in your action, the 40 can shoot some bullets to 10MM velocities using Hodgdon's Longshot powder. The 2002 Hodgdon reloading guide had these loads and they were all safe pressures, but the slide speed is way high so they took them out. Anyway, 8.0 grs of Longshot behind a cast 180 gr bullet seated to 1.125 COL clocks 1200 fps out of my CZ 75 with a 4.7 inch bbl. Up to 30 yards it will take deer effectively if you do your part.

On the other hand, the EAA hunter with a 6 inch bbl in 10MM would be ideal if you don't handload.

Hobie,



I read this post when it was placed on the board and read some of the posts which pretty much stated what I would have said so I didn't want to repeat the same old thing.



That was until I just read through the string again and your posts.



Frankly my friend, it seems you take alot of pride in the number of posts under your name. If you really wanted to be constructive, you could have posted that you would not recommend the 40 S&W for deer and hogs and be done with it respectfully.



Instead you hammer this guy, basically saying he is a fool for even asking the question, I'm sure looking down your nose the entire time you were typing.



To belittle a fellow sportsman because he feels more comfortable using a scope then open sights is PITIFUL. If you knew as much as you thought you did about handgun shooting and hunting, you would know that with the vision problems some of our fellow hunters have, using optical sights are the only way they can stay in the field and do what they love to do.



They simply can not get a clear sight picture, getting closer to the game will do nothing, it is a problem focusing on the open sights at two different focal plains, but of course you know all this and were just talking B Guy down for some reason.



It is also interesting to me that as others post against your initial post, your following posts get meeker and milder. Really seems you are storng in your mind. If you believe it enough to type it, stick to it down the road. If you don't, keep your mouth shut.



Just so we all know, how many big game animals have you harvested with the 40 S&W? I want to know your experience that backs up your strong opinion.



Personally, I believe you type much more then you shoot, and if I am wrong on that, then your just an over baring loud mouth, your words fit your picture my friend.



50

Hobie,

What is that crap on the link "Shooting with Hobie", How much can one guy type about loading for a 38 or 357 and what amazing days you have picking up brass that someone else has shot.

Is that how you get your experience, watching others at the range.

If you think your 10mm is a MANS hunting gun, get me an e-mail and I will give you a little education on what can be built on the specialty handgun platform.

The real difference between the 40 and the 10 is minute in the field, shot placement is critical with both. the extra 150-200 fps with the 10 is meaningless on big game. THe only advantage is the ability to shoot the 200 gr bullets.

You my fiend think alot of yourself to type down your daily matters. Maybe you should go back to that and get off this sight.

50

FiftyDriver,

Looks a great deal hypocritical to call someone for hammering another and you turn around and do the same thing. Come on here and disagree respectfully or you might want to consider taking a hike yourself.

I shot a smallish Mulie with a JP Saur 357 revolver with open fixed sights. It was a shot of opportunity and I took it. The range was 80 yds ish. I hit just behind the near sholder, took out both lungs. The deer jumped and kicked like it had been hit with an arrow, then ran maybe 40yds max and was dead leaning against a tree. The bullet was recovered in the offside sholder. The load just happened to be a 110JHP which I'm sure just about noone here would recomend includeing me. I've seen deer run farther after being hit with a 30-06 or 280. Which makes me wonder just how little is still acceptable given proper shot placement. The 110JHP did way more than I thought it would.
A buddy of mine shot a small mulie with his 45acp and 230 Starfires. It made it about 15 feet. Both lungs and exited the other side. If I had the 40 and wanted to hunt with it, I'd learn the trajectory for what ever range I might encouter and go hunting.

MS Hitman,

Giving respect earns respect in my book. Hobie was the disrespectful one, I was the honest one!

If you do not agree, I apologize to you but I do not apologize for my statements concerning Hobies statements.

To hammer on another hunter for using an optical sight at any range when you do not know the person from Adam is first, setting yourself up for a return hammer and second, to use your own words disrespectful.

50

LAR45,

Could not agree more with your comments and experiences. I once harvested a mature whitetail doe at 50 yards with a 22 LR revolver using remington 40 gr HP's. She ran 40 yards and piled up just as if she was hit with any high performance rifle.

Would I do it again, never, not even think of it, in fact I would now let her walk if that was what I was armed with. A 40 S&W is a bit more then a 22 LR though.

I think you misunderstood my post. I was saying that the 40 S&W would be just as effective at harvesting deer at 30 yards and under as the 10. Not that neither was up to the job.

You are 100% correct in that shot placement is 95% of harvesting big game with any weapon.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Yes, with good shot placement & a decent bullet from short range & only if I had nothing better. A 180gr jhp thru both lungs or if you are treestand hunting, btwn. the shoulder blades & it's lights out.

50,

Then you should not expect very much respect if you live by your own words. My great-grandmother I knew was very fond of the old saying "Don't let one fool make two." I agree that Hobie's initial astonishment should have been kept to himself. However, it was not an invitation for further hammering.

Now, I've killed over 100 deer with many different handgun calibers ranging from .22lr to .475 Linebaugh. Based on what I believe is an adequate amount of experience to discuss the situation; I can say the .40 is not my first choice for shooting deer. I do not even own one as I have a couple of .45 ACPs and see no need for the duplication. However, the question was basically do we think this caliber will work. Yes, I believe it will work with the proper bullet choice and placement. There are other factors involved such as whether or not the aminal is excited or peaceful. A further consideration is whether or not the caliber is legal for our locale.

In the remainder of this post and future ones, how about we practice some decorum and stick to the topic. We can have lively and spirited debates/discussions without having to resort to personal attacks against what one looks like. There are people who would say I'm sorta tough on the eyes.

MS,

If suprises me that you find a need to point out my posts and say nothing to Hobie when he was the one being disrespectful to BrowningGuy.

Perhaps if you would have said something after his first post, I would not have posted at all.

From your last post, it seems we have about the same experience hunting with handguns and I agree with your comments about the 40 S&W, but I made my post in reply to Hobies comments cutting down Browning Guy and nothing else.

Perhaps we all need to follow your comments and not cut down hunters for using an optical sight at 30 yards. God forbid you "EDIT" Hobies post where he hammers Browning Guy through the entire post.

Keep it even and I will not be a problem. Let it slip and someone has to stand up with those that get hammered for no reason except anothers uneducated opinion.

Hobie, did answer the question posted, just in a childish, I'm Much Better Then You Attitude. I was mearly pointing out he is not better then anyone else on this post and no one has the right to hammer others like he did.

If you have a problem with me throwing his crap back in his face after he threw it first then I suppose there is nothing we will do about that except to agree to disagree.

I will not stop calling posters out on posts like that. He was totally disrespectful to Browning Guy, who by the way stood up for himself very nicely I might at.

Even after explaining the need for using a scope, Hobie was still very condecending and belittling to Browning Guy.

I believe you picked the wrong side of this fight my friend, but thats your choice, I was just standing up with a fellow handgun hunter who was being hammered by a blowhard, just my personal opinion of course.

Hobie, if I offended you by calling you a blow hard, I am sorry your a blow hard!

I do not remember referring to anyones personal appearance. Must have forgotten that part of my post!

50

Fifty, I wasn't trying to be opositional to your post. My intent was to show that I had used what might be considered less of a cartrige/load in the little 357 110JHP than the 40 S&W might be and had good results with it.

I often read about people saying that they shoot for the point of the sholder to bring a deer down. I've found that any hit in the sholder ruins alot of meat. I was taught to aim for the pocket behind the sholder and it seems to work really well for me. I guess that I could see takeing a shot on the sholder to bring down something large that I didn't want to wait for a better shot on. I just hate trimming blood shot meat that has bone chunks in it.

I think that I need to move back east for a couple of years where you can shoot a deer a day.

LAR45,

No offense taken. I would have to say I to am in your way of thinking that it is much easier to slip a bullet behind the shoulder then try to take out the shoulder knuckle.

I have also found that even if one manages to take out that on side shoulder it is very rare that they will take the other one out as well and on average, a big game animal with three solid legs will still cover roughly the same amount of ground before the heart and lungs fail to the point of making the animal go down.

Because of this view, I suppose I could be accused of thinking lighter revolver and handgun rounds could be effectively used on deer size game.

As you pointed out, the 357 is a good deer harvester in my mind if the range is correct and the shot is into the chest without having to penetrate heavy bone.

I honestly feel a 155 gr Speer Gold Dot out of a 40 S&W would be pretty good deer medicine with a behind the shoulder chest shot. Most full size 40's can drive this bullet to over 1200 fps which if you look at most modern loading manuals, this is about what they list for the 158 gr bullet out of the 357.

Obviousely the 158 would penetrate better but the 155 gr Gold Dot retains nearly 100% of its weight and would be plenty to make it through the chest cavity of whitetails.

Thanks for the reply and I will say I agree with you.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Fiftydriver,

Sir, if you'd like to reread my post(s) you might note that I simply state my opinion and what I would do. Yes I am astonished and I explain that. I don't think I was hammering the fellow, it just seemed very odd to me. Later, I found out he could have chosen several other guns and seems experienced. Well, I'm even more astonished but for different reasons. You see, I still think that anyone can do anything they would like to do within the law. Such use is not legal where I am and I didn't see a reference to the fellow's location. Now, I wouldn't want to do something that lost my hunting priveleges due to my ignorance and I don't think anyone else would either. Aside from that, placement is everything. WANTING to use an optical sight (and some people need to) is one thing, it being the best choice is something else. I would not use one at those ranges, I think it is slow and can actually be a handicap when sighting. I think that is pretty much the extent of my comments with the exception of trying to explain astonished. "Astonished" does not mean "I think you are a dumb ass." It means "I'm surprised that someone of your experience would feel a need to ask such a question." Yes, I'm still astonished that the original writer felt the need to ask the question seemingly out of the blue. Now I'm astonished that you should take me to task. I'm always astonished that so many find the very worst interpretation that they can and act on that.

We'll probably never meet, but I think if we do you'll find that I make every attempt to speak with precision and credit my fellow conversationists with the intelligence and education to understand me. Nobody should take offense because I intend no offense.

As to my web page, well it is a diary of sorts and it is a blog short for web log. That's the way it will remain. You don't have to read it. Whether you do or not concerns me but little. I'm still less concerned whether or not you care for the subject matter or content. It truly isn't written for you but for friends, some of whom are in far places and difficult circumstances, who find some small pleasure in reading and perhaps commenting on their poor friend's shooting experiences when theirs are of one kind only.

I hope this finds you in good health.

Hobie,

Obviously you have experience, Obviously you have the right to express your opinion whenever and to whomever you wish.

I just felt your post was degrading and disrespectful. Since this is your first response to my posts, perhaps I may have read something more into your original posts, especially your later ones.

I apologize for the digs at you personally.

That said, I do feel that posters often get hammered for asking questions out of the norm quite often. Especially from experienced hunters who are suprised such a question would even come up.

I feel we would be better to just simply answer the question and leave out most of our comentary.

Good Shooting!

50

Fiftydriver,

I didn't respond because I had quit following the topic because some others felt that I had somehow crossed the line.

I hope that the .40 works for him. I know it would if he got to within 15 yards and fired a mag full into the lungs. An acquaintance of mine is known to have done this, successfully, with a Ruger Standard .22 pistol. Still, it isn't legal and it isn't the best choice.

Oh, I forgot to mention that my lowly 110JHP still weighed 110gns after I washed it off.

I got to do this, I know a man that poached deer for years with a 22 rifle shooting shorts, he killed more deer than I have and according to him it ain't the gun it's the shot. I live in Missouri and if I wanted to use the 40 to hunt deer I would do it in a heart beat, pick your best accurate load and punch the rascle, inside 30 yds. if it will stop a man it will stop a deer.

Hmmm, I have never shot a pistol with a scope but i just put a pistol scope on my Winchester Trapper (opps, a "Scout scope", heh heh) and find it very fast and no hinderance to my field of view, shooting with both eyes open. Is this your experience, Browningguy?

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#40sw

buffalo bore has some good stuff and deer hunting with the 10mm is fairly excepted practice

I live on a small place in the country ... some 80 acres. While I was working the travel schedule always seemed to screw up hunting season.

My first year off, I took some time to hunt again. After taking deer with a bow and a rifle I scrounged around the safe to find an M57 Smith (41Mag) with a 6" bbl and a scope. Found the pistol and the scope but could not find the mount for the scope. So, I dragged out the only thing that was legal for deer in WV and sighted in.

It was a single column 1911 race gun in 40 S&W. The pistol was built during a time when IPSC was considering a minimum of 40 caliber for major. The comped pistol was set up with a Holoscope. The available ammo was loaded just short of 10mm length. Was 135 grain Noslers chrono'd at something between 1400 and 1500 fps ... fast. Probably a bit faster than the 135 grain Corebon load.

I set out with the pistol to a stand. Toward dark in comes a nice doe ... about 60 yards. She was broadside facing to the left. As I pulled the trigger from a steady rest, she swung toward me as the pistol went off.

She did a front summersault landing on her back ... she twitched a little and died.

Upon inspection I found that the porjectile had entered between the shoulders more to the left than the right. I figured this was gonna be terrible to clean up. Field dressing revealed that the bullet had detonated upon entry making the heart and lungs into mush!

The projectile did not go very deep as there was no significant damage beyond the diaphragm.

I have never seen such damage or such an instant kill with a pistol. The thought of an accident with such a weapon just gives me the chills.

After the season, I found the mount for the M57 and have used it since.

I think the 40 S&W will work fine for deer, but I would use a heavier bullet than the 135 but lighter than the standard 180 projectile to get more penetration.