PWS, nice Sitka blacktail and great shot placement.

Thanks for the compliments guys.

The buck was slightly below me so the entrance at the skin is a little (2"?) high of what I consider perfect. On the level, perfect is right in the "armpit" just above the elbow, just below the shoulder blade. The bullet did exit on the point of the left elbow and traversed a good portion of the onside lung, the vessels at the top of the heart, and a bit of the offside lung. Shot was taken at about 40 yards and the deer ran a shorter distance than the shot.

Blood trail wasn't profuse but easily tracked if necessary. Thorax was full and deer was very nicely bled out. There was bit of hemmoraging below the shoulder and minimal amount of meat loss.

The load is a 295grain gascheck FN Lyman #429640 over 20grains of Alliant 2400. It clocks right at 1250mv out of my 5" Smith 629-3. I've come to the conclusion it's about perfect for game up to about 400lbs including most of the tough shot angles.

That covers a lot of critters and still offers a one-handed way of inflicting some pretty deep stab wounds in a big brown fuzzy wuzzy if the need ever arrises.

Cheers!

That's what I wanted to know! Thanks again for posting!

Here's a small buck taken with a .250 Savage in a custom XP using a Hornady 87 grainer at 2900+ fps. Entry was on the point of the shoulder; the range was app. 140 yards. The bullet penetrated app. 18 inches before coming to rest under the hide near the last rib and was the textbook mushroom shape.

Here's an aoudad taken with a 14" .257 JDJ using a 100 grain Ballistic Tip at just voer 2650 fps. The range was 190 yards. The bullet took out both shoulders and dropped the ram on the spot.

Below is a catalina I took at 230 yards using a custom Xp with a 14" Shilen abrrel in 6mm-.223 (aka 6x45). The 80 grain Sierra SSP left the barrel at a bit over 2700 fps and performed perfectly. The point of impact was tight behind the shoulder; the exit was quarter-sized and directly across from the entry.

The nice blackbuck below was also taken with the XP in .250 Savage using the 85 grain BT at app. 2950 fps. The range on the slightly-quartering shot: 260 yards. The bullet did lots of damage and still managed to exit the 100 pound animal.


I will hunt down some of my other photos and add them as time permits.

This one actually goes with the top photo in the previous reply. I took the doe at 90 yards using the .250 Savage XP with a Hornady 87 grainer at 2900+ fps. The doe was facing me at a slight angle, and the bullet centered the chest, wrecked a portion of both lungs, inflicted serious damage to the liver and continued along its way. I never did recover the bullet.

The morning started out very cold but warmed up fast, hence the reason I had already shed my camo when this photo was taken.

Both animals were specifically targeted. THe doe was known as the lump-jawed doe as she had a food impaction. The buck had an apparent injury on his side, and it appeared that a portion of an intestine was hanging out. It turns out that it was old scar tissue and a flap of skin that had hardened and healed over.

here's a non typical buck taken off of our farm in KY a couple of years back. 308 win in a HSP , shot was 90 yds.

quote:

Originally posted by nmhunter:
here's a non typical buck taken off of our farm in KY a couple of years back. 308 win in a HSP , shot was 90 yds.

Great looking buck..

Bobby,

Thanks for sharing those photos. Those are some unique trophies for sure! Great shooting!

quote:

Great looking buck..

Absolutely!!! Thanks for posting that photo Tom!

I know this trophy outclasses nearly everything posted above.......

Just a few of the fun times:

OldHandgunHunter -- almost as impressive as a killer chipmunk!! Just kidding! Very impressive!! Can you give us more details? Caliber/load/etc?? Thank you in advance!

If memory serves:

- Cape Buffalo - taken at Rooiport with a 378GNR (405 Winchester necked down to .375) with 300gr Barnes solids loaded in front of 60gr. of RE-15. This guy died hard, it took 5 shots to put him down.

-- African lion - taken in the Kalahari with a 378GNR, 260gr Accubonds in front of 60gr. of RE-15. He was down for the count with one shot through the heart, but I gave him a 2nd in the neck to make sure that he was anchored.

-- Cape Kudu - taken at Rooiport with the 378GNR and 260gr Accubonds. There's a long story that goes with this guy, since we had seen him on four different evenings before I finally got a shot. It turned out that, each time we saw him and started a stalk, he would sneak around us in the manner of a wily old Whitetail -- belly crawl and all -- and browse peacefully while watching us climb the nearby kopje in search of him. Even after we figured out his trick, he was a challenge as he would browse in the shadow of a huge tree, watching his backtrack, and it was almost impossible to see him in the shadows with the fading evening light. Finally, I caught a glint of sun off one horn, guessed at the position of his shoulder from that glint and took a shot. He dropped in his tracks, the shot having broken both shoulders and taken out both heart and lungs. A both very difficult and lucky shot.

-- Sable & Roan -- both taken at Rooiport on the same day (and both are ranked very high in the record books to boot) with the 378GNR and 260gr. Accubonds. Both shots were nearly identical -- about 175 yards while the animals were quartering away - both shots to the same spot behind the right shoulder and out the off-shoulder. They both dropped for the count within five yards and I gave each a mercy shot from up close. We were in the accompanied at the time by a world famous wild animal vet who was curious about handgun hunting -- he had never seen it before -- and he was mesmerized by the effectiveness of the short gun. I didn't tell him that not all of the big antelope fall like those two did that day. Later on that day, with that vet still in tow, we experienced a totally unprovoked charge by a mammoth old Dugga boy. At the time we were taking a break for coffee and nobody was carrying a gun -- we were just walking slowly along and chatting. Fortunately, and for reasons that I can't explain, the Buff turned off within about ten feet of us. If he had continued on, somebody else would be telling you this story. Why he charged and why he stopped are both mysteries.

-- Gemsbok -- taken with the 378GNR and 260gr Accubond. We had stalked this female for quite some time and she was peacefully browsing some 100-125 yards away, with no clue that we were anywhere around. I had all day to line up the shot, but she was faced almost directly away and I was very much aware of how tough these guys can be to put down. Finally, she swung around enough so that I could see a shot from her short ribs forward to the boiler room. One shot and she was down, the bullet having travelled as I planned with one additional piece of luck - she was bent over browsing and the bullet broke her neck after passing through the heart. She never took a step after the shot, dropped as if poleaxed.

-- Deer #1 -- taken with a custom 410GNR (454 necked down to 41 caliber) revolver, 255gr LBT in front of 28gr. of W-296.

-- Deer #2 -- taken with same gun and load as above. This was a very old deer that was some kind of hybrid of Texas Hill country deer and South Texas whitetail. He had a great thatch of thick hair on his forehead reminescent of an Eland, and the antlers were basketed almost together. I'm guessing that he was ten years old or older. And, he was travelling with a very old doe. My companion and I determined that we couldn't shoot one without taking the other, so I shot the buck and he the doe. It was a tricky maneuver because the buck didn't move with my first shot through both his shoulders and the doe moved behind him at the shot. But, in the end, she cleared enough for me to pop him again and the doe cleared enough for the other guy to get her with a 7mm Contender. All in all, a great memory. I've shot a lot of deer -- but this one is my all-time favorite.

-- Blackbuck -- taken with a 338GNR (same as the 378GNR, but necked down to .338), 225gr. Accubonds in front of 52Gr. of H-4350. This was one of the best shots I've ever made, with the Blackbuck dead into a rising sun, 80% hidden by the treeline he was standing in about 225 yards away. I hit him about six inches too far back and it took a time to track him after that first shot, but that allowed him to lay down and stiffen up before we found and dispatched him.

-- Russian Boars -- taken with a custom 475 Linebaugh revolver shooting 425gr. Grizzly WFNGC's. I took all three of these at the same time. The first one, a huge sow, was browsing at about 75 yards and I thought that she was alone. I shot her through both shoulders and she dropped to the shot. Then, to my surprise, I saw two others, another huge sow and a big male, charging right at me from behind her. I have no idea if they knew where the shot came from and were actually charging, but they were headed my way -- fast! So, I tried a frontal shot on the big female that was in the lead, still about 50 yards away. The shot was just a shade high, missing her head, but catching her spine. She immediately started spinning and squealing, but her forward progress toward me was stopped. The male, however, kept coming and there was little doubt at this point that he intended to do me harm and he was at 25 yards or so and coming fast, so I shot him in the chest. He slid to a stop less than ten feet from where I stood -- reminded me of a Cape Buffalo incident. LOL I had two shots left, the 2nd female was still spinning around, so I shot at the swirling mass again, hitting her too far back, but she stopped spinning long enough for me to put the last shot I had in the gun through her heart. Three boars in five fast shots. It got my heart thumping -- and there is nothing quite as good to me at the table as wild boar.

I've got a few dozen more stories to tell, but that's all that I have time for today.

Thanks for the details, OldHandgunHunter!! Those are some wonderful trophies!

OldHandgunHunter, thanks for the photo's and story's.. Way to go..

I have no personal experience with the .376 Steyr, but have always thought that its performance was roughly equivalent to the 378GNR. The numbers that you cite confirm that observation.

One can, and many do, shoot the regular 375 H&H from an Encore pistol, but you can't burn all the powder in the short barrel and you have to put up with the belt hanging up on the extractor -- not a good thing when you're hunting dangerous game. So, what everyone is aiming for is to achieve ballistic equivalency to the H&H, but in a round that is more compatible with the single shot pistol -- the 375JDJ and the 378GNR being the most popular (just my anecdotal observation, no numbers) choices -- but, there are certainly others.

I generally use the Accubonds, rather than Partitions, in the 405 Win based wildcats. I find that the Accubond performs better at the velocities we normally achieve with those wildcats, while the Partitions work better at the higher speeds typical of the longer barreled rifles. My unscientifically derived rule of thumb is to use the Accubond at less than ~2700fps and the Partition at higher velocities.

My PH and I talked extensively about whether or not to use solids or partitioned bullets with that Cape Buff -- or even whether to use one type for the initial shot and the other for follow-ups. We finally concluded to use nothing but solids and that worked fine. Some other combination might have been better, but the solids worked well, blowing completely through the Buff. I did recover one that exited the animal and re-entered at the hip. It looked good enough to re-load. When next I hutn a Cape Buff, I'll use solids again.

In my humble opinion, you'll likely not break the shoulder of a Cape Buff with a Partition and, if you try to go straight through the shoulder, the chances of getting to the vitals is not high enough.

The shoulders of a big Cape Buff bull are usually covered with layers of fat (almost like a Rhino on a big Dugga boy) and, then, the forward ribs partially overlap the very heavy boned shoulder. It's a VERY tough target and penetrating all of that with an expanding bullet at handgun velocities is asking a lot -- too much in my view.

Our approach was to shoot just below the chin, through the upper neck, for head-on shots and to shoot behind the close shoulder on side shots, with the objective of travelling through lungs and heart before banging the opposite shoulder from the inside -- thereby avoiding the heavy fat and armor plated outer shoulder. I spent a lot of time with anatomical charts and the PH, to plan out, to the degree that one can do such a thing, both the initial and follow-up shots. The first shot is, of course, orders of magnitude more important than any others, but if it's not perfect, you have to be prepared for the choices you'll be offered after that point. The knockdown power of the handgun is not the same as with a big bore rifle and more care must be taken.

That said, I believe that your gun would do well with the Buff if you use solids for at least the intitial shot and adequately study and implement proper shot placement. The Cape Buff is one of the toughest animals on the planet and hunting them with a handgun takes an unusual dedication to preparation -- followed a cool head during execution.

Hope that helps with your preparation for one of life's true adventures.

Thank you for your insight OHH.

quote:

One can, and many do, shoot the regular 375 H&H from an Encore pistol, but you can't burn all the powder in the short barrel and you have to put up with the belt hanging up on the extractor

Belted rounds and Encores just don't go together IMHO. You just nailed the reason that I chose a non-belted cartridge like the Steyr.

It appears that there isn't a whole lot of difference between the "numbers" of the .378 GNR, the .376 Steyr, or the .375-06 improved so if one will work they all should. SSK's .375 JDJ is slightly behind these rounds in velocity numbers IIRC since it was designed for the Contender, and it definitely works too!

A couple more questions if you don't mind. How hard is it to get handguns into Africa? Did your PH have confidence in your choice of weapon? I can't stand the idea of someone else shooting my buffalo for me if I make a good shot. I might have to get over that hangup though; I'm not sure many PH's are gonna let a buffalo out of their sight after being shot without trying to anchor them. Would you care to elaborate about your experiences on this subject? I'm facing the same situation with the mandatory "guided" brown bear hunt in Alaska.

quote:

The Cape Buff is one of the toughest animals on the planet and hunting them with a handgun takes an unusual dedication to preparation

I think that I can live up to this requirement.

quote:

followed a cool head during execution.

I can only hope.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

It is true that the 375JDJ was originally developed for Contender use, but so was the 378GNR -- we just load it hotter now for use with the stronger gun.

That said, some folks continue to use it, with the lighter loads, in Contenders against all African animals, including both the Cape Buff and Elephant.

It's not a lot harder to get hunting handguns into South Africa than it is to get rifles in. There is another requirement or two, but they're easily satisfied if the handgun is designed specifically for hunting. Semi-autos are NOT permitted and, periodically, I hear that double actions are rejected. I hunt with only single shots or single action revolvers -- I am not a fan of either double actions or semi-autos for hunting, so I've not tried to import either. In any case, however, I strongly encourage the use of Air-2000 to get pre-approved permits. They're very familiar with the import of handguns and know how to work the system well in advance to avoid problems upon arrival at the airport.

Handguns are also not a problem to import into Mozambique or Zimbabwe -- and miscellaneous other African hunting destinations welcome them -- but, they are not permitted into Botswana, Namibia, Tanzania or Zambia. So, in Southern Africa, you only have three possible choices. Fortunately the hunting is great in all three places and the only real problem I've experienced is finding really good Elephant hunting where handguns can be used - Zim is the only real choice since Americans can't currently import ivory from Moz.

I always use the same safari company - Madabula Safaris. John Abraham and staff are very experienced with handgun hunters, having been origiinally introduced to the sport over 15 years ago by Gary Reeder - and host to many of his group handgun hunts over the years. They understand and respect the capability of the modern hunting handgun and I never experience any restrictions from them that I wouldn't expect to experience if I were a rifle hunter. Anyone that prepares and hunts responsibly would have no issues with Madubula. I'm sure that there are other safari companies that are similarly open-minded, but I've not tried any of them as I'm happy with Madubula.

As regards the PH and dangerous game: One must always keep in mind that the PH's primary responsibility is to keep his hunters from getting hurt or killed. So, from time to time, no matter your hunting implements, the PH will determine that he must help with the kill. I've not hunted with any that were over-anxious in this regard and in the rare occasions when one of them has taken a shot, I have always assumed that they did it with great reluctance and a serious concern for consequences that were likely to occur without their help. If you work to ensure that your PH trusts and respects your abilities, you won't have a problem.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions OHH; you've been most helpful.

BTW, I wouldn't say that I have gotten bored with life, but I did get bored with rifle hunting about five years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by x-caliber:
BTW, I wouldn't say that I have gotten bored with life, but I did get bored with rifle hunting about five years ago.

It's just too easy with a scoped rifle, is it not?

[/QUOTE]
It's just too easy with a scoped rifle, is it not?[/QUOTE]

I grew up hunting with a rifle, but concluded well over 35 years ago that the rifle technology was such that there wasn't really enough challenge to keep me interested. And, of course, rifle technology continued to improve every year. So, I tried bowhunting, but found that I just didn't like practicing that and to bowhunt without practice just isn't fair to the animals.

So, I just stopped all hunting excepting 28 gauge bird hunting - and I continued to do a lot of self-defense type handgun shooting. And, that was the limit of my firearm activities for decades.

Then, quite by accident, I discovered that handgun technology, and therefore handgun hunting had evolved from a gimmick to a serious sport. I was elated and dove right back in!

Now, lots of folks love rifle hunting -- and I must say that hunting Africa with big bore, iron sighted, doubles is every bit as challenging as handgun hunting -- but, for me there's nothing quite like the challenge of a handgun against dangerous game. There's no substitute.

OldHandgunHunter -- I have yet to hunt Africa, but am boning up for it! I have open sites on my .416 and my .450 Ackley, and I have taken a boatload of hogs with my .416 and my Lott when I still had it. It is a lot of fun. My comment is directed more towards sitting in a stand with a scoped rifle -- pretty easy! I just prefer handgun hunting although really, it's all good!

quote:

It's just too easy with a scoped rifle, is it not?

If I can keep my nerves under control it is Whitworth

I still love to shoot my rifles at paper but when firearms season rolls around I'm usually carrying some kind of single-shot pistol.

quote:

I just prefer handgun hunting although really, it's all good!

I agree! I just love to hunt!

I've posted this before I think...but here it is again.
I'm still a rookie at handgun hunting...but I'm trying. I finally got a 'Lope last year and now I'm hooked for sure!
My recurve is still my favorite...but handguns are a very close second!!!!
OHH: your trophies are amazing!

This is my 7-30 Waters, quartering away shot. The 140grn Combined Technologies didn't work too good out of a pistol. I've switched to 120Vmaxs and 120 Pro Hunters.

Good job Ammohouse!! That's a fine antelope! Rookie?! You're off to a stellar start! Congrats!

"OHH: your trophies are amazing!"

Thanks -- I love that African handgun hunting!

But, I've yet to shoot an American antelope, with a handgun or anything else for that matter!

It's been on my "to do" list for a long time and one day I'll get around to it. Those Fall trips to the Dark Continent keep getting in the way.

Ruger Redhawk, 5.5 inch 44 magnum. That thing was like hauling a boat anchor around the mountains near Cloudcroft, NM. The wet spots on my shirt and pants ain't from rain. Then when I got to the tree the hunt ended in a ground fight with the dogs and the bear was taken at about 10 feet with 5 shots. Long hard day, but a hell of a lot of fun. I traded that pistol away and bought a 329 S&W which is much lighter to pack and I have used it to take a pronghorn a couple of years ago. No photo of the goat though.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by PWN375:

What caliber is that gun you got there?

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by PWN375:

What caliber is that gun you got there?

I'd say a .44 mag

quote:

Originally posted by PWN375:


Ruger Redhawk, 5.5 inch 44 magnum. That thing was like hauling a boat anchor around the mountains near Cloudcroft, NM. The wet spots on my shirt and pants ain't from rain. Then when I got to the tree the hunt ended in a ground fight with the dogs and the bear was taken at about 10 feet with 5 shots. Long hard day, but a hell of a lot of fun. I traded that pistol away and bought a 329 S&W which is much lighter to pack and I have used it to take a pronghorn a couple of years ago. No photo of the goat though.

Perry

Perry thanks for adding the information to your post. It was not there when I saw it the first time.

Nice looking bear.

OldHandgunHunter, thanx for the pictures and the terrific insight. Sometimes I don't understand what drives archers or handgunners to resort to "shorter range" weapons, but your explanation makes perfect sense. Those were some gorgeous animals. That's a great roan. Your Cape has to have a good story. It doesn't have too much horn spread, but those bosses are almost grown closed so it had to be an OLD Mbogo. I'd like to hear that story.

Ammohouse and PWN375,

Thanks for sharing those awesome photos with us guys. This thread has become simply awesome! Keep 'em coming guys.

quote:

That's a great roan. Your Cape has to have a good story.

The Roan and the Cape Buff earned me two nominations for SCI's Handgun Hunter Of The Year -- they're both great trophies. The Roan was the new #2 for Handguns and was very close to a new record.

When I was hunting that Cape Buffalo, I passed on several big old Dugga Boys in favor of this one. I wanted an old bull with hard bosses, but I also wanted a "pretty "trophy for the fireplace. A little more spread would have been nice, but he's pretty big in his own right, scoring as a Handgun Top Ten -- and he is "pretty" enough for the living room.

The hunt was great and I have a lot of it on tape -- most everything except the first shot. How we missed taping the first shot is a mystery, but I would like to have had that recorded because it was a frontal shot from about 75 yards that ended up about one inch off-line. That one inch made a lot of difference -- made the bull very sick - sick enough that he separated from the herd - but he was still on his feet. In the end, it took five shots total and the bull charged us three different times. It was a VERY exciting hunt -- just the kind of Cape Buff hunt that you dream about.

Speaking of old guys -- here's another of my favorite trophies, an ancient and very high ranking Black Wildebeest. The perfect trophy in my book -- massive bosses and old enough that he wouldn't have survived another year:

OldHandgunHunter, I am very impressed with your handgun trophy's.

I am having a 375 H&H rifle barrel cut down for one of my Encores pistols. 14 inches plus a 2 inch muzzle brake, it should be a lot of fun shooting it.

Some wonderful hunting experiences and pictures.
I have never had the time or money for a great hunt and never will. I sure wish I could go with some of you. SS doesn't go too far though.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Some wonderful hunting experiences and pictures.
I have never had the time or money for a great hunt and never will. I sure wish I could go with some of you. SS doesn't go too far though.

Big game hunting, particularly African big game hunting, can be extraordinarily expensive -- or not.......

Nowadays one can hunt even Africa on a relative shoestring. Plan a plainsgame hunt in South Africa, fly coach to get there, and limit your take to five or six popular PG species. You'll have the time of your life and, if you shop around, you'll find it very affordable.

Took this 62" Bull Moose between Nome and Kotebue, Alaska on 10 Sept 2008 @ 15 yds with my 4-5/8" stainless steel Ruger Blackhawk in 45 LC using 335 gr cast LBT WFNGC, 20 gr Lil'Gun in Starline cases & WLP primers @ 1150 fps.

Soowwweeeettttt GSSP! Your pre-trip posts were full of anticipation and it looks like you had a great trip!!

15yards with a .45LC nice going!

GSSP, that's truly an amazing trophy you have there. For those who'd think that a gun the size you're holding wouldn't take an animal the size you're sitting by, this one is a wake up call. Great job.

Fantastic trophy!!

Hot 44 Specials and 45 LC's are often overlooked in today's handgun hunting world, but the fact is that they're more than adequate for almost all North American big game. You've proved it again.

Gentlemen,

I appreciate the compliments. I was really afraid I was going to regret not sticking to my plan of taking a Grizzly. But the size of the bull inconjunction with taking it with the 45 has absolutely fullfilled any and all expectations I may have had.

Here is a recent photo sent to me by my outfitter took with his camera. I think this may be my favorite!