i really love the 500 and owen both but if it were up to you and you could only have one wich one would you buy and why.

ps i use the 500 grain xtp in the smith and 700 grain hard casts in the bfr both with great accuracy.

Question:
wich one would you buy smith or bfr......

Choices:
smith 500 8 3/4"(standard 500)
bfr 500 10"

 

I wouldn't buy the Smith & Wesson because I still hold a grudge over the company selling out and betraying shooters some years ago in a product liability lawsuit. I never intend to buy a product made by Smith & Wesson again.

I've shot a BFR in 45-70 before and it seemed to shoot OK but the testing was at short range without a scope. I would do more research before commiting to a BFR.

I would not buy either. I would buy the Gary Reeder custom BFR in the 500 Maximum with a 4" bbl. and be quite satisfied that I had the ultimate big bore handgun that is powerful and packable. The 500 Max. is about 11% more powerful than the 500 Smith and is a true .511 diameter which is considerably larger than the Smith .500 diameter. Bigger is always better so long as you can manage it.

i took a look at the gary reeder guns there pretty nice and the 500 max looked pretty cool but i cant justify 2k on a 4" barrel hand gun that im gonna use on hogs......

exp when the smith and the bfr will do every thing that gun will at half the price.

Get the BFR from the custom shop chambered in 500 JRH and don't look back this chambering is in the standard size frame and will take any size animal very cleanly. The factory loads are available in 425 grain at 1375 fps and a 440 at 950 fps the 500 JRH 425 grain load shot completely through an Asian Buffalo and thier is nothibng to be gained (except mor recoil) by shooting these bullets faster. Beliave me as I have a 50 Alaskan 5 shot revolver and it won't killed any better than the standard frame gums enough though it will shoot a 525 grain Buffalo Bore factory load at 1710 fps from a 10" barrel

i shot the 500 jrh up here not a bad gun but i prefer the 500 s&w

the 500 max would also be cool

Gary's guns may "seem" a little expensive until you factor in that they are simply one of the best revolvers out there, its built any way you want, they have a very high resale value...and they have a lifetime warranty on repairs or refinishing no matter who owns it(which is also what drives the high resale value). Buick or Benz?

Don't like 10 inch barrels.
7 1/2, yes.

If you don't load the S&W to 60K, it's a nice cartridge, capable of pushing heavy bullets fast enough. It's a 1.6 inch cartridge, same as my 500 MAX, and, that means good velocity, for big bullets, with low pressure.

Currently have 525's at 1350, but, that's a bit fast, 1200 would have been fine.

Here's a couple pics of my baby: chambered in 500 Maximum:





This is a custom Ruger, done by Jack Huntington, who also warranties for the life of the gun.

GS

i rethought the gary reeder thing and will probably buy the 500 max package.....i belive it has a 4 5/8" barrel what kind of velositys would i be loking at for sush a short barrel.

ill probably get it with a longer barrel

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/revolvers/500bmf.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I would not buy either. I would buy the Gary Reeder custom BFR in the 500 Maximum with a 4" bbl. and be quite satisfied that I had the ultimate big bore handgun that is powerful and packable. The 500 Max. is about 11% more powerful than the 500 Smith and is a true .511 diameter which is considerably larger than the Smith .500 diameter. Bigger is always better so long as you can manage it.

An .011" increase in diameter is hardly "considerable". And because the cylinder walls are also "considerably thinner", the .500 maximum can not be safely loaded up to the same pressure levels as the .500 S&W. Therefore the .500 S&W is the more powerful of the two. Oh did I mention the S&W case is a bit longer? I have never seen any published loading data for the .500 Max that equals, much less exceeds, the power level of the .500 S&W

mbartel

quote:

An .011" increase in diameter is hardly "considerable"

That is very debatable, the difference between a 41Mag and a 44 mag is .019" and if you shoot enough animals it becomes very apparent that these small increase's in bore diameter are relevant......

I already own the Great S&W 500, 8 3/8" barrel.
I shoot the 500gr bullets at 1420 FPS and have shot the 675 lead with a cap on bottom faster than that. [didn't use a conagraph].

There is a reason that the Smith & Wesson advertisments state that the 500 S&W is the most powerful "DOUBLE" action revolver on the market. The 500Max. holds 11% more powder due to its fatter case which would yeild roughly the same increase in power due to it being a straight walled case. Most 500Max. are built in the short barreled version so a fair comparison needs to be made so are you going to get the same 500 Smith velocities in their short barreled version? Certainly not. Now, if I wanted I could have Gary build the revolver with .002 cyl. gap and gain another 150fps or so, try that with the Smith guys. To sum it up..really..no animal will be able to tell the difference and both will kill equally quick. I would still rather pack the 40 ounce 4.5" version over the cumbersome long barreled Smith anyday, but that is just my opinion. Come to think of it Gary will build his BMF in either caliber.

mbartel

quote:

Oh did I mention the S&W case is a bit longer?

Acctual the 500 Maximum and the 500 S&W are both 1.6 inches

I did not vote, I own both. Each one has it's use in my opinion. I have a 4 inch S&W that I use as back up, the BFR I have was sent to Mag-na-port and I had the barrel shortened to 6 inches and had it mag-na-ported. For hunting I use the BFR for back up I use the S&W. I choose both.

I will always buy a Smith & Wesson, holding a grudge is just rediculas in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
mbartel

quote:

Oh did I mention the S&W case is a bit longer?

Acctual the 500 Maximum and the 500 S&W are both 1.6 inches

FYI...The maximum case length of the .500 smith is 1.625". For the .500 max it is 1.610". Like I said....the S&W case is longer. It's like who can build the tallest skyscraper. If you want to be the baddest...you have to beat the baddest.

Very nice!! I have a 500 S&W but it doesn't look as pretty as that.

quote:

Originally posted by GS:
Don't like 10 inch barrels.
7 1/2, yes.

If you don't load the S&W to 60K, it's a nice cartridge, capable of pushing heavy bullets fast enough. It's a 1.6 inch cartridge, same as my 500 MAX, and, that means good velocity, for big bullets, with low pressure.

Currently have 525's at 1350, but, that's a bit fast, 1200 would have been fine.

Here's a couple pics of my baby: chambered in 500 Maximum:





This is a custom Ruger, done by Jack Huntington, who also warranties for the life of the gun.

GS

Steve,

I traded a 4" 500 S&W Gary Reeder to Tom in Georgia and he has it for sale. It is a 4" BMF with white grips. It is a good shooter. If you like the BMF, you can get his and not have to wait 6-8 months.Nice engraving too.

im not goin to worry about it right now i have so much stuff on the go i can barly keep my head attached.

I have my S&W 500 sighted in at 100yds with the 350s and the 400gr bullets. With the 275 gr bullets I shoot to 200yds and hit the steel plate. They drop about 6" AT 200 YDS. with my 8 3/8" barrel. Now if they made a 200gr bullet I'd
be right on.

both way to big but if pressed id take the smith any day over the bfr

Lloyd, what do you have against the BFR's? I have the .475 and have shot several 5 shot 5/8" groups at 50 yd's and with my 45-70 I have shot some 5 shot groups of 9/16". I clang steel to 500 meters with them. This is with cast boolits from my home made moulds using a red dot that covers 2" at 50 yd's and 69 year old eyes.
I outshoot every Freedom gun brought here to my range. I just put 3 shots through an empty paint spray can at 100 yd's that was less then an inch.
The S&W is a great gun, but don't discount the BFR's.

cu zz the extra length of cylinder...thats all the reason i need

heres the story. I bought a 480 bfr once and only owned it for about a month. It was advertised as a 6.5 inch gun and came as a 7.5 the front sight was plain stainless that washed out in the sunlight.(the pic in there brochure showed a red insert blued one that im not thilled about either) The gun was huge compared to a fa or ruger. Fit and finish wasnt any better then a ruger (the grip frame didnt fit up well with the frame) I didnt like the idea that the only way the base pin is held in is a set screw the ears that ruger puts on there grip frame to lock into the frame werent there and the only thing holding the grip frame to the frame were the two allen screws. The trigger was no better then an out of the box ruger. Lots of sharp edges and the rubber grips are a joke! Now im getting picky on some of these points but to me it didnt justify double the price of a sbh. The big thing that turned me off was contacting there costomer service dept. I told them that i bought a 6.5 not a 7.5 inch gun and that the sights were useless. They told me (very rudely) that i didnt know what i was talking about and that they knew alot more then me about what worked on a gun and what didnt. They said that they measure there barrel lenght from the end of the frame instead of from the forcing cone (unlike every other gun in the world!!) and that sights were subject to change depending on what they had on stock at the time. I nicely told them that maybe the barrel could be shortened and a differnt sight put on it and that would make me happy. they then told me that theyd do it for 200 bucks. Now Dave clemments would have done the same with a custom sight for half that. Bottom line is ive never delt with such a rude service dept. and before you jump to conclusions anyone that knows me knows that im about the easiest going guy to deal with in the world. I didnt appreciate being told by some women that i didnt know what i was talking about when ive probably shot more single actions then everyone in there company put together has. Personaly Id buy a super blackhawk and have a belt mountain pin an action job and a better set of sights put on it and for half the money id have a better gun. Another thing with this post is neither gun appeals to me i like carrying a sixgun in a hip holster and dont like small rifles. My choise of the two guns would be a variation. It would be a 4 inch smith 500. There at the ragged edge of being comfortable to holster but its doable and every 500 smith ive shot has been a great shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Lloyd, what do you have against the BFR's? I have the .475 and have shot several 5 shot 5/8" groups at 50 yd's and with my 45-70 I have shot some 5 shot groups of 9/16". I clang steel to 500 meters with them. This is with cast boolits from my home made moulds using a red dot that covers 2" at 50 yd's and 69 year old eyes.
I outshoot every Freedom gun brought here to my range. I just put 3 shots through an empty paint spray can at 100 yd's that was less then an inch.
The S&W is a great gun, but don't discount the BFR's.

They do have a few shortcomings but the new ones are better. I heard the first ones were not so good. They are heavy but are my primary hunting guns, not hip carry backup guns so I don't mind the weight or barrel length.
What impresses me is the accuracy and mild recoil for whatever you can feed them.
If you had to deal with problems with S&W, you would find they are hard headed too.

i have to give credit where its due. Mine did lock up tight and did shoot well.

quote:

If you had to deal with problems with S&W, you would find they are hard headed too.

What kind of problems are you talking about specifically? I have had to send revolvers back to S&W in the past, even had a cylinder replaced at no charge. No problems with them at all...

The Rugers shoot as good as anything else in their price range and better then some at twice the price. I have been very close to 1" (1-1/4".) at 100 yd's with my SBH and a home made cast boolit. This gun has over 57,500 rounds through it too. Ruger should make their Blackhawks in the larger calibers for us with little money. Trouble is that some Rugers off the line will not shoot as good as this, just like any production gun.
Is the BFR worth twice the money of a Ruger? I would say yes.
Is the Freedom worth twice what the BFR costs? I would say NO unless you love the fit and finish. I still wish I could afford one!
Is the Smith worth the money? I would say yes and wish I had one.

I have had no problems with S&W but I read on other sites about problems like way to large a cylinder gap and a few other things where S&W told the guys that they were in specs. Unless your gun is broken they won't do anything for you. They are all the same if you are not satisfied with something. Ruger is the same way and I would hate to send my gun to them for anything because they would take my 1# trigger and put it back to 6 or 8#.
With certain problems they will not help you but for other problems, they will bend over backwards for you.
I needed a stronger mainspring for my BFR 45-70 and they wanted me to send the gun back so their gunsmith could look at it. I told them I WAS a gunsmith and they sent me one right away. The original would not fire a LR primer all the time. With the new one accuracy started to fall off after many shots so I switched to LP mag primers and cured it.

By the way, I get my Ruger SBH and BFR triggers so light by making new transfer bars that are longer so they can't drop below the firing pin and cause a misfire or hangfire. This is a danger if your trigger kicks foreward when you pull the trigger very lightly. It will also kill accuracy when the pin is not hit fully and hard. NEVER lighten a mainspring for a light trigger pull.

I guess everyone has a different opinion on what a guns worth. To me a bfr isnt put together much better then a ruger but a FA is worth it as they are fit up like a swiss watch.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
The Rugers shoot as good as anything else in their price range and better then some at twice the price. I have been very close to 1" (1-1/4".) at 100 yd's with my SBH and a home made cast boolit. This gun has over 57,500 rounds through it too. Ruger should make their Blackhawks in the larger calibers for us with little money. Trouble is that some Rugers off the line will not shoot as good as this, just like any production gun.
Is the BFR worth twice the money of a Ruger? I would say yes.
Is the Freedom worth twice what the BFR costs? I would say NO unless you love the fit and finish. I still wish I could afford one!
Is the Smith worth the money? I would say yes and wish I had one.

The proof is in the shooting, not the fit, feel or appearance. My BFR's are more accurate and fit tighter to closer specs then Rugers. The bore, twist, throats, forcing cone and cylinder gap are where I want them. They shoot a wide range of bullets very accurately. They shoot a wide range of powders without a lot of trouble. They are close to a custom gun at a price I can afford so the fit and finish will never equal a Freedom.
The Freedom has the wrong twist on a lot of their calibers. Cylinders are too short on some. Parts like rubber grips and scope base are twice the price. They have everything locked up and there are no after market parts that I can find. They shoot but most will only shoot one bullet weight and one load. It can take a lot of time and money to find it.
Four different ones are brought to my range and I have yet to see one shoot as good as they are supposed to even with a variety of factory loads. I have shot them many times from many positions, with all the different loads brought out. I'm sorry, but my BFR's outshoot them every time. Since I hunt with mine, I don't want to spend a year to find a perfect load. A so-so load does not go in the field with me. That is why I ask a lot here, "what shoots" and have tried some of the loads, none are satisfactory yet! Nothing worse then a $1700 anchor.
Any off the shelf S&W will outshoot a Freedom too.

quote:

Any off the shelf S&W will outshoot a Freedom too.

You know, BFRshooter, I have seen you claim you can shoot 9/16th groups with a 2" red dot sight, that you have shot close to 1" groups with your beloved BFRs, all with your own moulds, etc., and so forth, ad nausem. With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about... I see (and hear) a man who is bound and determined to convince a group of folks that he knows more, can do more, and has seen and done more than anyone else around. Also, I hear a man bitter at FA; for what, I have no idea. But to make a statement like the one in quotes above is not only ill-thought, but just flat dead wrong... Check the IHMSA records after the Internationals every year, and see how many Smiths win the Big Bore competition. I respect you for your years, and for supposedly doing what you say you have done, but I won't listen to such hyper-spewed drivel. And I STILL wish you would post a few targets... Like Bartsche says: talk is cheap.

Doubless, I don't post pictures here because it is a pain in the ass. Want to see group pictures, go to castboolits.com where I post them all the time. I am not bitter at Freedom, I love them but they are also a PITA. You are the one that spews drivel and have not shown Freedom groups.
I spent years shooting IHMSA and won Ohio state with 77 out of 80 with a Ruger SBH. I hit 79 but they would not give me the two with mud on the base and rail holding them up, good, solid center hits but they didn't even rock.
S&W never won anything at IHMSA because they are grip sensitive. I have owned and dumped more of them then I care to say. I have shot more 1/2" 50 meter groups with them then I care to say. The problem is each 1/2" group can be 10" from the first because of the way the gun is picked up and held. I can hit 5 targets dead center and miss the next 5 completely with a S&W. They are accurate as the devil if you never take the gun out of your hand.
You can also see pictures of my moulds at castboolits.
I have sent pictures to guys here to post for me with no response. I will not go through the hassle posting pictures here, how many guys do it? In 1000 posts, there might be 1 picture.
Send me your E mail and I will flood you with pictures you can post for me.

I forgot to mention that my handle on castboolits is 44man. I never get the nasty responses there that I get here and maybe it is because I can post pictures or the guys are more intelligent.

quote:

I never get the nasty responses there that I get here and maybe it is because I can post pictures or the guys are more intelligent.

But you see, you CAN post the pictures here... All you have to do is email the moderator. He will be very happy to post the pics. (I might add that it is just as easy for you to email him as it is to email me...)

The last half of the quote above insults. You know as well as I do that there are a lot of the same people here as are at castboolits. Somebody says something you don't like and you insult to defend. No reason to do that...

FWIW, I don't shoot my FA any more. I love my Smiths, and I don't shoot IHMSA anymore either; my eyes aren't what they need to be to do that. But the lockup on a Smith will never be what it is on an FA, the tolerances in Smiths vary because of mass production and tool wear, the way the cylinder chambers are cut on an FA guarantees the chamber matches centerline of the bore, the barrel grooves are "cut" with EDM, etc.

Yes, Smiths will shoot, but they will eventually "shoot loose", and you know that if you have shot them. Cylinder endshake becomes a group destroyer after a few thousand hot loads. FAs will take 60K from now on and not loosen; Smiths won't.

And every revolver is grip sensitive. You change the grip on your beloved BFR and watch the groups open up...

And finally, you know the IHMSA rules: if the target doesn't fall it is a miss, just like it is for everyone else. I'm sorry you didn't get credit for the ringers, but neither did anyone else at that match. And I will conjecture there were others that rang targets...

Sorry to highjack this thread, but bfrshooter, you should open an account on photobucket and then it's really easy to post photos -- plus, it doesn't cost anything.

I will have to try it. I don't mean to offend anyone. I guess it is from the bowhunting forum here where everyone has to have the lightest, fastest arrows that will not go through an animal. All I do is mention the use of a heavier arrow and I get dumped on big time. I don't mean for it to rub off here! Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by 700 nitro:
i really love the 500 and owen both but if it were up to you and you could only have one wich one would you buy and why.

ps i use the 500 grain xtp in the smith and 700 grain hard casts in the bfr both with great accuracy.

Steve,sold the Reeder,but it was Very Nice and Handy!Good Looking too!I replaced it with a 500 ES Smith 23/4"..Love it and I have shot up to 500gr loads out of it.It is my backup to my 6 1/2" 500 PC.I do have a 50 Alaskan conversion on a BFR in the works now,so it will be the new monster handgun...calling it "Mastadon" !!