I computed some power factors for a revolver load I have in a 44 mag at 411 and a power factor for a load in an .40 auto at 210.

Question:

If needed for a bear encounter, which would you rather have on your hip???

The revolver is a little heavier but rides in a crossdraw and the weight is not really a factor in carrying either shooter. Recoil is substantially more with the 44 Mag so follow up shots even with a two hand hold may be slower; and accuracy is really almost a toss up. Total firepower is with the .40 but I don't think I would be shooting the bear 13 times. I've killed black bears with a bow and arrow and a rifle but never with a pistol.

What say ye???

44 Mag ...

1st choice would be the 44mag. but if you must carry an auto....go with the 10mm for the extra power level w/ a good bullet choice for the game, that works in that particular auto.

Its all on the bullet. Not sure what to add besides that. I sure wouldnt expect to have to shoot more than a couple rounds with either one with the right bullet.

Let's see....
"did I fire 16 or 17 shots? In all the excitement, I kinda lost track myself".

Yep, .44 mag.

One shot, one chance -- give me the bigger hammer.

Without a doubt the 44 Mag.. Unless you had an LAR Grizzly in 45 Win Mag.. :-)

The 44 mag is a 300 grain cast slug at 1,372 fps for energy of 1,253 ftlbs.

The .40 is a 180 grain cast slug at 1,172 fps for energy of 548 ftlbs.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
1st choice would be the 44mag. but if you must carry an auto....go with the 10mm for the extra power level w/ a good bullet choice for the game, that works in that particular auto.

+1 An EAA Witness Hunter has a 6' barrel and can hold 15 rounds. You can't match the best a 44 will do but you can come close. Autos for anything bigger than 10MM get too big and heavy for my preferences.

OTOH, if I were taking the revolver I'd probably go with a 45 Long Colt.

Here are my thoughts.

My favorite handgun is the 1911, in 45 ACP...
So I like semi-autos, and there are some powerful semi-autos...

However, you might not know you have "bear trouble" till you are knocked down. A semi-auto will malfunction if anything inhibits the slide.
So if the slide hits the animal, you, the ground, or catches a bunch of hair, you might have a malfunction.

NOT SO with a revolver....

SO when I am in the field I carry a S&W 44 Mag...

I carry it in a cross draw holster so I can get to it if I am on my back...

If you look at videos, or instances where people have been attacked by an animal they usually try to get on their back, and use their feet to keep the animal off of them. In that position you might be able to get to a 44 Mag in a cross draw holster, and if is a revolver you might be able to shoot it all 6 times...

I do carry at least a couple of speed loaders for a rapid reload, if it is necessary.

So equiped I am also ready for 2 legged varmints, which I consider as big a threat as bears, wolves, wild pigs, etc...

That's a great point about getting knocked down and having slide problems with an auto.

Looks like the .44 in a cross draw is a winner. Thanks.

Teancum

The wife and I have spent a lot of time in bear country, hunting black bears in Grizz country..

And I have done a bunch of bear hunting alone, all by myself, so I think that is the best plan.

We, and I, hunting alone, have been very close to Grizz, that we/I were not supposed/allowed to shoot.

By close I mean under 15 yards...

And that is the ones we Knew were close, no doubt, there were others, we might not have known about..........

I have even been within 40 yards of Wolves, and they were making quite a bit of a ruccuss...

While I always have some sort of powerful rifle, it is of NO value once you are knocked down.

I can say when you are ALL alone, a 44 Mag S&W is Mighty comforting.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Teancum

The wife and I have spent a lot of time in bear country, hunting black bears in Grizz country..

And I have done a bunch of bear hunting alone, all by myself, so I think that is the best plan.

We, and I, hunting alone, have been very close to Grizz, that we/I were not supposed/allowed to shoot.

By close I mean under 15 yards...

And that is the ones we Knew were close, no doubt, there were others, we might not have known about..........

I have even been within 40 yards of Wolves, and they were making quite a bit of a ruccuss...

While I always have some sort of powerful rifle, it is of NO value once you are knocked down.

I can say when you are ALL alone, a 44 Mag S&W is Mighty comforting.

One of our sons was bow-hunting in Southern Montana and had hit a bull elk. Upon tracking in across a small stream the elk tracks were topped with a set of Grizzly tracks. Smart boy, even though he had my old S&w 629 in a shoulder holster decided that the elk belonged to the Grizz.

We have an increasing number of wolves in Idaho now and almost all available space north of the Snake River already has a pack in it. Some have been shot just 5 miles north of town and even closer. Without an open season this year they are becoming embolden and are a legit cause for person safety. I never go even a few miles north of town without a shooter, but in that area, for wolves and cougars, a hot loaded .40 will get'er done.

Why not go with the 460 roland? If you're wanting bear stopping power out of an auto. 44 mag power in a 45 acp package. A simple bbl and spring change.I pack a 45 auto, in oregon all we have is brown bear, But 10 shots, quick reload 10 more. If you're HUNTING bear I would choose a rifle. For protection. I am not scared of ANYTHING packing my 45.

ty
I am a 1911 kind of guy...

The 460 works good, till you are knocked down...

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
1st choice would be the 44mag. but if you must carry an auto....go with the 10mm for the extra power level w/ a good bullet choice for the game, that works in that particular auto.

+1 I would include a good .45 Colt +P in a 5.5" Redhawk too.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
That's a great point about getting knocked down and having slide problems with an auto.

Looks like the .44 in a cross draw is a winner. Thanks.

No, not just any .44 mag, a double action revolver.

Without a doubt, a .44 mag or a .454 Casull in a DA revolver would be my choice, loaded with the heaviest hardcast bullets that functions reliably in the gun. You're only going to get one or two shots on a charging bear, better make them count.

If you can't connect with your first 6 shots, your accuracy isn't going to improve with another 7 shots in the magazine.

Learn to shoot double action accurately, and you'll have the best practical self defense bear gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
If you can't connect with your first 6 shots, your accuracy isn't going to improve with another 7 shots in the magazine.

Learn to shoot double action accurately, and you'll have the best practical self defense bear gun.

And I guess if you miss with six shots, it's probably your time.....

I carry my 41 ti when I need a light weight bear gun my 44 redhawk with 310 gr bullets when I think I need something bigger. Then if I real think I might run into a bear I carry a proper caliber rifle.

I do carry a glock 23 around a bit but normally when I don't plan on going into the woods. But having had more then one bear show up in the yard it might have to do some day. But then my 06 scout rifle is loaded sitting in the croner if I have time to get to it.

Any gun you have with you is better then no gun at all.

A brown bear in Oregon would be a "color phase" black bear. Bears aren't real hard to kill if hit correctly & hitting is way more important than power. Lots of power & no control can get you in a whole lot of trouble with something that fights back.

Dick

quote:

Originally posted by Dick Thompson:
A brown bear in Oregon would be a "color phase" black bear. Bears aren't real hard to kill if hit correctly & hitting is way more important than power. Lots of power & no control can get you in a whole lot of trouble with something that fights back.

Dick

+1, yep you've got to hit it to matter that fact is for sure and for certain

quote:

Originally posted by 376steyr:

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
1st choice would be the 44mag. but if you must carry an auto....go with the 10mm for the extra power level w/ a good bullet choice for the game, that works in that particular auto.

+1 I would include a good .45 Colt +P in a 5.5" Redhawk too.

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I have seen this thread and didn,t have time to read it .
Finally did . Tean put forth one of the more common and practicle ? and alot of the common occurances that happen if a bear gets to you have been brought up . .
Alot depends on how big the bears you will encounter will be . For me the 44 mag felt kindof puny . At different times I have been in different kinds of bear country . When the 480 Ruger came out in the Super Redhawk . I was having some real problems withlots of brown bear at very close range . With the 44 , I was getting pushed around alot . With the 480 w/ 410 gr Buffalo Bore I started pushing back . I never shot one with the 480 . but I ran several with it . Plus I had Oscar . My dog. ..
.The 500 s would be ever better . or the 475 L.
.Those on here who are much better shots than I would do ok with a 44 , but in my experience , things can happen so fast and unexpectedly that a shortish barrel d a revolver works great ..
I know the 500 S+W isn,t cool with some here . But the power they provide is really useful as long as you can hang onto it . .

A gyunsmith in north central BC (ARMCO) played around with a 45 ACP for his customers that wanted an autoloader for bear defense in northern BC.

He settled on the 45-08 which is a cut down and reamed out .308 case. Then it's loaded up with Longshot powder.

10 rounds of 230gr bullets at 1100-1200fps. 14 rounds if you live in the USA and dont' have the stupid magazine restrictions like we do.

You need to install a buffer and replace the spring with a heavier one, and make sure you use a strong gun. Mine is a Para Ordnance and he says it's one of his favorites.

No need to cut down rifle case, 45 Super case are readily availible from Star Line and that is 45 velocity that you cited

Went back and looked at the 45-08 info again.

200gr at 1450fps and 230gr at 1300fps

Recoil is pretty sharp but not crzy bad or anything.

Dont' you need a modified barrel for a 45 Super? I've never actually seen a 45 Super round.

Externaly the 45 Super is the same as the 45 ACP just loaded to higher pressure

Check out the Penetration tests of the 255 hard cast 45 ACP +P load in the this thread


http://forums.accuratereloadin...2911043/m/3651072051

I don't cast my own bullets, and most of the cast bullet companies in Canada seem to stop at 230gr for a .451 caliber bullet for a 45ACP...it's annoying....

Are those 45 Super cases used in the penetration tests?

Silly Question?????

If one finds oneself on one's back and a black bear on top of him, how does one handle the recoil from his shooter?????

I know that shooting standing up with a two hand hold helps to lessen the recoil over shooting off a bench rest. But I don't have any idea what the recoil would do to you hand position on your shooter when lying on your back or how much recoil you can handle in that position.

Next time I go out to shoot I'll have to try some lying on my back and see what happens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Gatehouse:
I don't cast my own bullets, and most of the cast bullet companies in Canada seem to stop at 230gr for a .451 caliber bullet for a 45ACP...it's annoying....

Are those 45 Super cases used in the penetration tests?

Load tested is a Buffal Bore factory load in 45 ACP +P loading

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Silly Question?????

If one finds oneself on one's back and a black bear on top of him, how does one handle the recoil from his shooter?????

I know that shooting standing up with a two hand hold helps to lessen the recoil over shooting off a bench rest. But I don't have any idea what the recoil would do to you hand position on your shooter when lying on your back or how much recoil you can handle in that position.

Next time I go out to shoot I'll have to try some lying on my back and see what happens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If one has a bear on him one just needs to shoot the rest will sort its self out as long as you survive. The amount of recoil depends on the size of the gun and cartridge

Had that exact thing happen to an aquaitence.Found himself under a nice 450ish lbder and he came up with a short barreled pistola and killed his bear,and blowed his finger off at the same time.Bear fell on top of him,he laid there until the bear was rolled off,roughly 10-15minutes,and quickly taken to the hospital.After all this several of us were discussing the incident,the hows,why,and what nots and he was asked about thoughts and other stuff and he said he never even knew his gun had went off.His was a heavy loaded 44mag.

What finger did he shoot off and did he know how that happened.

He was dog hunting,bear charged and he lost his footing,flat on his back he used his left hand to try and push the bears head away from his face,unholstered with the right and pushed and fired.Took pointer finger off left hand at first knuckle.He said it was so fast and the adrenaline was so high it took a few seconds before the pain set in.We laugh now about nubby but it made for alot of learning and discussions.

youd be lucky to get off 2 shots let alone 14! Me id take the biggest gun i could make one well placed shot with cause thats all your likely to get.

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
youd be lucky to get off 2 shots let alone 14! Me id take the biggest gun i could make one well placed shot with cause thats all your likely to get.

Amen to that sentiment!

cottonstalk Know all about the rush when close to a big bear with hounds. My daugher shot a 431lb dressed blk bear last fall at about 20 feet fighting with the dogs.

We had to crawl into the brush it was so thick and lay down for her to make the shot. Could hardly make one end of the bear out from the other. But one 220gr out of her 06 did the job.

It could of been messy if the bear came towards or at us but the dogs did a great job.

Just before we started into the brush I handed her my 41mag and told her to go shoot that bear she told one step then told me to give her her rifle back smart gal.

p dog we have taken a bunch of bears with different handguns and calibers the hardest part is getting point blank range undetected.Longest shot I have ever taken was maybe 20ft and it was up a tree,closest barrel touching,living dangerous?Maybe but we have a good time doing it.

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:Maybe but we have a good time doing it.

And I can attest to that!