It is a good thing blk bears are more interised in fighting the dogs instead of us. I know a couple of guys that got run over got bit.
even worse is training season no guns allowed

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
It is a good thing blk bears are more interised in fighting the dogs instead of us. I know a couple of guys that got run over got bit.
even worse is training season no guns allowed

We actually lost a dog last December to a mama bear -- guess she had had enough.

I am a fan of a deviding line when looking at problems.
Theory/experience
Revolver/auto
And here one of the first lines is who(whom) is hunting whom(who).......
.
Maybe here there is no line depending on weapon and skill level, but I guess that is another couple of lines.
.
Single shot would be right out of this question wouldn't it........
.
Howah(spl) as a Minimum........

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
p dog we have taken a bunch of bears with different handguns and calibers the hardest part is getting point blank range undetected.Longest shot I have ever taken was maybe 20ft and it was up a tree,closest barrel touching,living dangerous?Maybe but we have a good time doing it.

Barrel touching is a wee bit too close for me.

I remember when 3 of us were taking turns on a tree stand for bear here in Idaho and one of us met momma bear at the bait when he was walking down the path to the tree stand. She had two small cubs with her and she greeted him warmly. He was carry a sack of donuts and meat scraps in one hand and his bow in the other. He said that they stood toe to toe and discussed the issue for what seemed like 2 hours but in reality was about 20 seconds. He said that he was never so frightened until she wolfed down the two cubs and sauntered off. From then on all of us carried large caliber handguns into that tree stand.

My experience with bears is limited but I found them harder to kill with a bow and arrow than elk. With a rifle ok but that arrow seems to reveal how tough they can be.

Teancum;
"20 feet"
.
I can't see that without thinking of John Buhmiller's reason for not using peep sights on elephants.
.
He wanted "crotch" sights with white out line so he could see them:" If they were 20 feet away.......or right on top of you.........."

I knew a guy last fall that shot a 585lb blk bear at 6 feet or two corn rows away. The dogs had it bayed in a corn feild they were going towards the fight and there was the bear bang one shot with a 12 ga slug.

P dog shooter;
That is REAL cuddely with a bear........but heck those are your dogs working for ya..........
.
It always amazed Buhmiller how close you could be to an elephant, and NOT know it was there.......watching you and waiting......."To get ahold of you with its trunk and twist and stomp you 57 different ways"

Back to the issue, I would personally carry my SBH 44 mag. But If Ihad an autoloader it would be the Desert Eagle in 44mag. Neighbor has one. I have small hands and I have no problems emptying the 8 rnd clip fast and accurately. I guess because I have been shooting a 44M since 1987. Granted it is a big handgun and bulky. But it loves hot rounds. But in the end I would rather have a revolver for the reasons N E mentioned. But it is a hell of lot of fun to shoot!

If I must choose it would be the 44Mag with a heavy bullet.

But I would rather have my 480R.

Cause I’m guessen you won’t be able to shoot a bear unless you are sure you must…

and with the 40S&W you will end up with a lot of rounds left in your gun.

revolver--- 500 smith and wesson. Oh yea-- only 5 shots. I guess if 5 don't do it I will need a 44 mag smith and wesson too.

I have big revolvers, and a Glock 29 - I ended up carrying the Glock far more than the revolvers. (I'm mostly worried about bumping into a meth lab, etc - or pigs.)

However, now that I shoot open, I'll probably buy a 10MM 1911.

As for being knocked down, I think its about even between the fragile nature of a revolver to being struck, and the ability to jam v. the ability of a pistol to be pushed out of battery.

A Glock w. a manual safety to lock the slide in place may be the idea choice, but not the most appealing.

In a defensive situation anything is better than nothing .. So if someone reading this has a 9 mm or 38 Special and nothing else . Thats alot better than your fingers and feet . If most of the joggers who have been killed or chewed up had one of those handy when they needed one it would have saved funeral or hospital expenses .. I know a guy who killed a 6.5' sq. black bear sow with his Sig 40 S+W 3 shots with duty load of 165 gr Hydra Shoks . from around 15-18' distance ..
A hand cannon is useless if its not in your hand when you need a cannon.. Small arms fire may save the day ..

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
I have big revolvers, and a Glock 29 - I ended up carrying the Glock far more than the revolvers. (I'm mostly worried about bumping into a meth lab, etc - or pigs.)

However, now that I shoot open, I'll probably buy a 10MM 1911.

As for being knocked down, I think its about even between the fragile nature of a revolver to being struck, and the ability to jam v. the ability of a pistol to be pushed out of battery.

A Glock w. a manual safety to lock the slide in place may be the idea choice, but not the most appealing.

Would you mind expounding on this 'fragile nature of a revolver' myth?

Bears on the ground, with dogs, in the brush & at night! Life's biggest thrill for me.
Have shot several, jamming barrel into bear. One time getting dogs ear jammed in between, .44 mag piercing.
Also, had bear take gun from me & fire it, at night. Was very lucky, no dogs or me got hit. Luckily I was able to find the gun & later finish the job.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
I have big revolvers, and a Glock 29 - I ended up carrying the Glock far more than the revolvers. (I'm mostly worried about bumping into a meth lab, etc - or pigs.)

However, now that I shoot open, I'll probably buy a 10MM 1911.

As for being knocked down, I think its about even between the fragile nature of a revolver to being struck, and the ability to jam v. the ability of a pistol to be pushed out of battery.

A Glock w. a manual safety to lock the slide in place may be the idea choice, but not the most appealing.

Would you mind expounding on this 'fragile nature of a revolver' myth?

Thanks for asking, I too would like to know about this "fragile nature."

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
youd be lucky to get off 2 shots let alone 14! Me id take the biggest gun i could make one well placed shot with cause thats all your likely to get.

I think some people need to see a black bear in action, they are fast, real fast. Lloyd you are 100% right, most people would be lucky to get one shot off. We all want to think we will react quickly, and be able to protect ourselves, but the reality is, you won't know until you are put into that situation. Every bear is different as well, some will try to bluff you, and the other may come at you with no warning at all. A black bear can run a short distance as fast as a quarter horse. If a black bear is coming after you, it means to kill you.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
youd be lucky to get off 2 shots let alone 14! Me id take the biggest gun i could make one well placed shot with cause thats all your likely to get.

I think some people need to see a black bear in action, they are fast, real fast. Lloyd you are 100% right, most people would be lucky to get one shot off. We all want to think we will react quickly, and be able to protect ourselves, but the reality is, you won't know until you are put into that situation. Every bear is different as well, some will try to bluff you, and the other may come at you with no warning at all. A black bear can run a short distance as fast as a quarter horse. If a black bear is coming after you, it means to kill you.

Many wouldn't even have time to kiss their butt goodbye.

quote:

COTTONSTALK - "Bear fell on top of him ... he was asked about thoughts and other stuff and he said he never even knew his gun had went off. His was a heavy loaded 44mag."

Several years ago I was bear hunting in Calif. with a professional bear guide. He'd been in on the killing of over 250 Black bears and was a well known and respected bear guide.

He said that a couple years before, a hunter he was guiding had made a very poor shot on a 400 pound Black bear that was treed by the dogs. The bullet hit the bear in the hind foot and the bear came down the tree in a flash and was into the dogs.

The guide was on the side of a steep hill above the melee. As the bear was killing his best dog, the guide drew his S&W .41 Mag., but because of the bear being in the middle of his dogs, he could not shoot. He started to run down the hillside to try and save his dogs.

The steep hillside was ankle deep in wet pine needles, as slick as ice. He slipped, sliding on his butt down right straight into the bear.

He said, "That bear gave me his immediate attention. He was on top of me and all I remember was that .41 going 'Click click click click,' and that bear collapsing on me."

He'd emptied the .41 Mag., six bullets into the bear, but he did not even remember hearing the shots. Just that "Click click click ..." as he continued pulling the trigger.

The bear also broke his right thumb, bending it back to fold along his wrist. He told me that if he'd had a single action revolver, he'd have not been able to fire as he could not have cocked the hammer. The double action S&W .41 Mag. saved his life.

The guide was a large, very strong man and had arms like Virginia baked hams. On the rear of his biceps, both arms, were large, ugly, purple, deep scars that looked like he'd been hit multiple times with a hay hook. That's where the bear grabbed him.

That made a believer out of me as to what a Black bear can do to a person, and just how fast it can happen.

To address the original question... I suggest the .44 Mag., double action, if you have one, single action if you don't.

L.W.

If I were to carry an auto loader it would be a 1911 in 460 Rowland. Might even have a Para Ordnance frame on it so as to hold more ammo.

Having to chose from my current stable I would say my 454. Now if the ATF wouldn't frown on it I might make some KTWs for a 10mm.

black bear hunting is big up here. What many dont take into account is for the most part there not hard to kill. People her bs from interet commandos all the time about needing a big gun to do it. Ive killed them with sixguns rifles and bows and for the most part they die easier then a whitetail deer. They tend to lay down and die when hit rather then trying to leave the country like a whitetail thats hit. Most of the dog hunters i know here use guns like 44 mag and 3030 carbines and i know of two hunters that have killed more black bear then most people have ever seen and there gun of choise is a 357 mag pistol. They killed enough of them that they remain calm and place there shots well but they have no problem trusting there lives and the lives of there dog to a 357 shooting factory ammo. most black bear incounter storys are just that, stories. ive lived in blackbear country all my life and have shot them on my back porch and have never had one come at me. Its just the oposite. i feel privalaged if i even seen one in the woods. Most of the time when you do all you see is the back end of fast departing bear.

Interesting observations Lloyd but they aren't all just stories,even though there are bunches.What I find is most folks have no idea how fast the critters are.No they are not hard to kill but to say they die easier than a white-tail I find funny.I haven't seen a white-tail yet with bad intentions.

Lloyd just do a simple google search on black bear attacks you'll find lots of true stories.

Some fatal some not 99% of bear encounters turn out just find its the 1% that cause trouble.

I too live in bear country see them on a regular basic in yard in the woods on the rd ect.

We have been told for years that large preators are not dangerous. All I can say to that is BS it jsut that most of the time they are killed off before the can cause harm. But every once in a while some one becomes dinner.

For me being armed is just insurance, like wearing a seltbelt,PFD,haveing a fire extisher ect. Most of the time one well never need them.

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
black bear hunting is big up here. What many dont take into account is for the most part there not hard to kill. People her bs from interet commandos all the time about needing a big gun to do it. Ive killed them with sixguns rifles and bows and for the most part they die easier then a whitetail deer. They tend to lay down and die when hit rather then trying to leave the country like a whitetail thats hit. Most of the dog hunters i know here use guns like 44 mag and 3030 carbines and i know of two hunters that have killed more black bear then most people have ever seen and there gun of choise is a 357 mag pistol. They killed enough of them that they remain calm and place there shots well but they have no problem trusting there lives and the lives of there dog to a 357 shooting factory ammo. most black bear incounter storys are just that, stories. ive lived in blackbear country all my life and have shot them on my back porch and have never had one come at me. Its just the oposite. i feel privalaged if i even seen one in the woods. Most of the time when you do all you see is the back end of fast departing bear.

Black bearName, age, gender Date Species Location Description
Kelly Ann Walz, 37, female 02009-10-04October 4, 2009 Black Ross Township, Pennsylvania Walz, whose husband had an expired license to keep exotic animals, was attacked while cleaning her bear's cage. She tried to distract the bear by throwing dog food to the opposite end of the cage. A neighbor shot and killed the bear.[12][13]

Donna Munson, 74, female 02009-08-06August 6, 2009 Black Ouray, Colorado Munson had been feeding bears for a decade, and was repeatedly warned by wildlife officials. After a bear got injured in a fight with an older and bigger bear, Munson left food out to help the injured bear. The older bear came back to Munson's property, forced its way past a wire fence, and mauled Munson. Wildlife officials killed two bears on Munson's property. One of the bears had a necropsy which revealed evidence that it consumed Munson.[14][15]

Cecile Lavoie, 70, female 02008-05-30May 30, 2008 Black Near La Sarre, Quebec After Lavoie didn't return to her cabin following a solo fishing outing, her husband went looking for her. He found a bear dragging her body into the woods.[16]

Robin Kochorek, 31, female 02007-07-20July 20, 2007 Black Panorama Mountain Resort, British Columbia Kochorek was reported missing after mountain biking. A black bear was found near her corpse the morning after her disappearance. The bear was shot on site by The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP).[17]

Samuel Evan Ives, 11, male 02007-06-17June 17, 2007 Black Uinta National Forest, Utah Ives was grabbed from a family tent in American Fork Canyon, and mauled. State wildlife officials killed the bear, which had entered the campsite the night before.[18] Ives' family are attempting a lawsuit versus the U.S. Forest Service because there was no warning about the bear's presence.[19][20]

Elora Petrasek, 6, female 02006-04-13April 13, 2006 Black Cherokee National Forest, Tennessee The bear attacked the family at a waterfall near a campground. Petrasek's mother and brother were also injured. The bear was trapped and killed, and an unrelated bear was mistakenly killed.[21][22][23]

Jacqueline Perry, 30, female 02005-09-06September 6, 2005 Black Missinaibi Lake Provincial Park, Ontario Perry was killed in a attack at their remote campsite. Her husband was seriously injured trying to protect her. Ministry of Forest staff shot and killed the bear near the area where the fatal attack occurred.[24]

Harvey Robinson, 69, male 02005-08-26August 26, 2005 Black Selkirk, Manitoba Robinson was fatally mauled while picking plums north of Winnipeg, Manitoba. Robinson's family were exploring the site with an RCMP officer later that day, and were also attacked. The officer shot and killed the bear.[25]

Merlyn Carter, 71, male 02005-06-14June 14, 2005 Black 270 kilometres southeast of Yellowknife, Northwest Territories Carter, a pilot, was found dead in the main cabin of his fishing camp. Carter's son came to the cabin the day after the attack, and shot and killed the bear.[26]

Maurice Malenfant, 77, male 02002-09-29September 29, 2002 Black Saint-Zénon-du-Lac-Humqui, Quebec Malenfant was attacked in his campsite in the Gaspé region of Quebec.[27][28]
Christopher Bayduza, 31, male 02002-09-01September 1, 2002 Black near Fort Nelson, British Columbia After going for a walk behind a trailer, Bayduza was attacked at a remote oil rigging site in northeastern British Columbia.[29][30]

Ester Schwimmer, 5 months, female 02002-08-19August 19, 2002 Black Fallsburg, New York A bear knocked Schwimmer from her stroller, which was near the porch of her family's vacation home. Then, the bear carried the infant in its mouth to the woods. Schwimmer died of neck and head injuries.[31]

Adelia Maestras Trujillo, 93, female 02001-08-18August 18, 2001 Black Mora, New Mexico A bear broke through a glass pane to gain entry into Trujillo's house and killed her. Trujillo's body was found in her kitchen. The bear was shot a half mile from the house.[32]
Kyle Harry, 18, male 02001-06-03June 3, 2001 Black 25 km. east of Yellowknife, Northwest Territories Harry was attacked while with a a group at a rural campsite 25 kilometres (16 mi) east of Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories, Canada.[33]

Mary Beth Miller, 24, female 02000-07-02July 2, 2000 Black near Valcartier, Quebec Miller was attacked while on a biathalon training run in a wooded area on a military base. The bear was trapped and killed four days later.[2][34]
Glenda Ann Bradley, 50, female 02000-05-21May 21, 2000 Black Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Tennessee Bradley was attacked and partially consumed by a mother bear and a cub, 1.5 miles (2.4 km) upstream from Elkmont, Tennessee. It was the first fatal bear attack in a southeastern U.S. National Park. The bears were shot and killed by park rangers while hovering over Bradley's corpse.[2][35]

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
Interesting observations Lloyd but they aren't all just stories,even though there are bunches.What I find is most folks have no idea how fast the critters are.No they are not hard to kill but to say they die easier than a white-tail I find funny.I haven't seen a white-tail yet with bad intentions.

Since you have either killed or been present when large Black Bears were killed and the fact that you prefer a 45 Colt properly loaded is good enough for me to stay away from 357 Mags when in Large Black Bear country

great posts jwp, good info in those.

i'm sure a .357 would work but it doesn't cost anymore nor require anymore shooting talent to harness a .44 or .45 colt so why not? i also have lots of faith in a 10mm with appropriate hardcast bullets from a reliable auto like a glock but i have 454/45colt/44 mags so why would i?

Thanks for posting all those incident reports JWP . my bet is that had most of those people had a handy little pistol like a Glock 26 or 27 , redily available , they would of still been walkin and talkin.
.
I still think a fairly large revolver would be better . but anything is better than nothing ..
And Loyd , unless those guys have killed over 300 black bear then they arn,t even close to the # of blk br. I,ve seen and been close to . .not to start anything . But I,ve been around alot of bear . I know 458 Win has proven that a 357 will smash thru a brown bears skull . You gotta hit just the right spot . I,ve seen alotof blk br that would weigh over 500 lbs . I doubt they die easier than a whitetail deer . .

Here is a very interesting site by a man who lives in Ontario, Canada, who has spent a lifetime around Black bears. He's not only studied them at length, but has no illusions about how dangerous they can be.

He talks about the myths, in addition to the facts. He also speaks of the idiocy of the bans on bear hunting pushed by the animal rights freaks. It's a lengthy read, but one filled with information about Black bears.


http://www.ontarioblackbears.com/

L.W.

quote:

If needed for a bear encounter, which would you rather have on your hip???

I would rather have the revolver, as you can see. but if you are not accually looking for them (bears),this current generation of light weight autos are very easy to pack for general woods wandering.