I use the cam over feature on my Rock Chucker to make sure the shell holder is in full contact with the die, but ONLY when I need to really FL size a case.
What does more, as in, .035 inch, of cam over accomplish? Once the shell holder is in firm contact with the die, that's it.
And for most applications, I don't even make the shell holder contact the die.

I built 3 8MM06 rifles, I loaded about 100 rounds of 8MM57 ammo and then went to the range and fired all of the ammo. All of the cases were ejected with very short necks. All of the cases had long case bodies. None of the cases had case head stretch or separation.

Again, I purchased a M1917 rifle with a chamber that was .002" longer than a field gage length chamber. I adjusted the die off the shell holder by .014" and then sized 280 Remington cases for .002" clearance. No stretch, no case head separation.

F. Guffey

I have 2 Piggy Back attachments for the RCBS Rock Chucker press. The Piggy Back attachment has a one way clutch, if the Rock Chucker was a cam over press it would bust the one way clutch.

dcpd, you are safe, I doubt there is a set of instruction that cover cam over and non cam over presses outside of Uncle Nick and the person he got them from.

F. Guffey

All of my Rock Chuckers lock up and go into a bind before the ram is allowed to change directions. The lock-up and binding causes the ram to be kicked forward at the top and back at the bottom.

F. Guffey

I assure you that my Rock Chucker does cam over. Come over and I will show you.
Otherwise, I didn't understand anything you said.
I have, however, fired hundreds of rounds of 7.62 Nato out of 03 Springfields, one Model 70 30-06, and two 1909 Argentines; they all fired fine and no case problems either. However, I have no idea what that has to do with cam over presses.
(I used to take rifles to the M60 range and me and the Sergeants would blast some. I had no 308 rifles at the time.)

quote:

fired hundreds of rounds of 7.62 Nato out of 03 Springfields

How do you do that?

Load them into the magazine. Push the bolt forward and down.. Pull the trigger.
On 7.65 argentines too. On the 30-06s, you get a long straight wall case. On the 7.65s, you get a really short neck. Has zero to do with the OP's issue though.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I assure you that my Rock Chucker does cam over. . . .

Mine does too! And I bought mine, oh, I dunno . . . 40 years ago?

The directions that came with mine were to raise the ram and screw in the die until it just contacted the shell holder.

Then, the instructions said to lower the ram and screw the die down ¼ turn and raise the ram, which should cam over.

If it did not, I was to screw the die down a tad further until it did.

I no longer do that.

Instead, I use my rifle's chamber to adjust the die until the bolt just closes with a slight resistance.

CORRECTION:

As Reads: "I use my rifle's chamber to adjust the die until the bolt just closes . . ."

Should Read: "I use my rifle's chamber to adjust the die until the STRIPPED bolt just closes with a slight resistance."

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Load them into the magazine. Push the bolt forward and down.. Pull the trigger.
On 7.65 argentines too. On the 30-06s, you get a long straight wall case. On the 7.65s, you get a really short neck. Has zero to do with the OP's issue though.

I saw a hundred years ago you could buy an insert for the Garand that would allow one to shoot 7.62 NATO in a 30-06 chamber in the Shot Gun News. Accuracy had to suck though.

Adjust the die until the bolt just closes with a slight resistance? I love that idea!
As for the spacer to convert a 30-06 to 308; yes, I have installed them. Accuracy is not terrible; the bullet does jump an extra half inch, but the Navy converted many M1s with them. Until they started coming out, then they had new barrels made at RIA. Which are rare. M1s will not function with 7.62 unless you enlarge the gas port to .100.

How would you do that on a semi auto? ....like the Garand?

Hi All. Thanks. I did what dpcd mentioned as it seemed to be the simplest to somebody who doesnt have all the recommended tools.

I was able to turn my die set out by just over a turn and a half (almost two full turns) with the cases still fitting easily. Have only shot 15 shots but have had no misfires.

Hopefully problem has been resolved. Thanks for the guidance

BG: Outstanding! Good job.
LC: do what on a Garand?

Check fitment of the case in the chamber. A 7.62 X 51 could do the same thing, go way too far forward in a 30-06 chamber and not letting the primer ignite. I see how it could work but seems risky to me. Seems like your using the rifle's chamber to substitute for a sizing die. I have heard of some just neck sizing once fired for superior accuracy but I shoot most gas guns (semi auto) in matches and you have some confidence in function/reliability.

NO sizing die or any sizing taking place and not risky at all. Come over and I'l show you. 100% reliability and safety. Trust me.
You are forgetting one important thing; the weapons I used were all claw extractors; the case could not go too far forward. A friend's Savage 110 in 30-06, we could not shoot 762 in because it had a tighter chamber. I had a post 64 Model 70 at the time, not a claw extractor, and it worked perfectly too.
If it was dangerous, I would have blown something up in the 70s, back on the M60 range. No issues with hundreds of rounds on several rifles.
Neck sizing has nothing to do with what I did.

"Come on over" Where you live?

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Adjust the die until the bolt just closes with a slight resistance? I love that idea!
As for the spacer to convert a 30-06 to 308; yes, I have installed them. Accuracy is not terrible; the bullet does jump an extra half inch, but the Navy converted many M1s with them. Until they started coming out, then they had new barrels made at RIA. Which are rare. M1s will not function with 7.62 unless you enlarge the gas port to .100.

I have seen M1s fire and fully function with 7.62 ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Adjust the die until the bolt just closes with a slight resistance? I love that idea!
As for the spacer to convert a 30-06 to 308; yes, I have installed them. Accuracy is not terrible; the bullet does jump an extra half inch, but the Navy converted many M1s with them. Until they started coming out, then they had new barrels made at RIA. Which are rare. M1s will not function with 7.62 unless you enlarge the gas port to .100.

I have seen M1s fire and fully function with 7.62 ammo.

What was the accuracy like?

They were hitting 12" steel @ 100yds.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Adjust the die until the bolt just closes with a slight resistance? I love that idea!. . .

Doh! I goofed. Should have mentioned that the bolt is stripped of its striker mechanism. So that sentence should have read:

Adjust the die until the STRIPPED bolt just closes with a slight resistance.

quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:
They were hitting 12" steel @ 100yds.

12 MOA. That's not bad.... Any miss fires, fail to ignite?

Can't say, wasn't paying real close attention.

quote:

Originally posted by F. Guffey:
Excuse my ignorance, F. Guffey, but how do you come to have so many presses?

quote:

Forgive, I did not see your question, I collect presses. I measure cam over. The most cam over I have found was on an A2 RCBS press, it had .037". The owner had it locked up, he was going to use a pipe, I suggested we use a socket to back the die out.

F. Guffey

You're a delusional old fool!

Please just go away..... You've been laughed off so many other forums it's just....well.....pathetic....


.

quote:

I have seen M1s fire and fully function with 7.62 ammo.

Reloaders and smiths claim case head expansion between the case head and case body and case head separation when the case is not supported between the bolt face and shoulder of the the chamber.

Reloaders do not understand the case does not have head space but the case can be used to off set the clesarance: problem, the 308W/7.62 NATO case does not have clearance when fired in a 30/06 chamber. The 308W/7.62 case body juncture at the shoulder/case body is larger in diameter than the 30/06 meaning the case head spaces on the case body/shoulder juncture when chambered.

Meaning? The 7.62 NATO case is a crush fit in the 30/06 chamber. Many 308W chambers were chambered to 30/06; after that many gunsmiths and shooters that thought all they had to do was run a reamer into the chamber "and that was it?" had rings on their fired cases where the reamer did not clean up the 7.62 chamber.

Dick Culver on Culver Shooting Page was the first to write about firing 7.62 NATO in A Garand.

Nothing magic about firing 308W ammo in a 30/06 chamber.

F. Guffey

quote:

You're a delusional old fool!

Please just go away..... You've been laughed off so many other forums it's just....well.....pathetic....

Again, I have three Rock Chuckers with two Piggy Back attachments, the attachments are auto advance meaning the reloader does not have to advance the shell plate when using the Piggy Back #1 and #2.

The Piggy Back attachmens have a one way clutch that prevents the ram from reversing, reversing the ram would bust the one way clutch. Seems insignifcent to most but if the RCBS Piggy BACK PRESS WAS ATTATCHED TO A CAM OVER PRESS the one way clutch would lock up and or render the one way clutch scrap. I*n the old days drivers were instructed to come to a full stop when backing up if they had an auto-transmission. The old transmissions had one way clutches that were slow to release.

If the Rock Chucker was a cam over press the Piggy Back attachment would have been a manual index.

Today all of the ethnical people are gone and the users do not read directions. The ram attachment in my Piggy Backs will will only rotate in one direction even thought it is not attached to the press.

F. Guffey

quote:

You're a delusional old fool!

Please just go away..... You've been laughed off so many other forums it's just....well.....pathetic....

I am not too lazy to look under the bench to determine what is happening to the linkage when the press is put through its passes.

No one can tell me what limits the travel of the ram on a Rock Chucker. Agai9n, I have 3, all of my Rock Chuckers lock up and go into a bind. As a side note all of this causes the ram to kick forward at the top and back at the bottom.

F. Guffey

quote:

I have, however, fired hundreds of rounds of 7.62 Nato out of 03 Springfields, one Model 70 30-06, and two 1909 Argentines; they all fired fine and no case problems either. However, I have no idea what that has to do with cam over presses.

Again, no miracle. To chamber the 308W into the 30/06 chamber the case has to be sized/formed when chambered meaning the front of the 308W/7.62 case has to be a crushed it. I would suggest you mic the 7.62 NATo/308 W at the case body/shoulder juncture. Just a guess but I believe the 308 W case is about .016" larger in diameter than the 30/06 chamber.

You have convinced me you know nothing about the Rock Chucker, other members are too lazy to crawl under the bench to determine what prevents/stops the travel of the ram on a Rock Chucker.

A reloader was blaming a foreign country for the wobble in his press, he knew about as much as you do about the Rock Chucker. He posted a video. No one knew what they were looking at.

F. Guffey

Guffey brings up a point here in one of those posts.

dpcd; rcraig

quote:

I have, however, fired hundreds of rounds of 7.62 Nato out of 03 Springfields,

Got any pictures of your once fired brass from a 7.62 X 51 fired in a .30-06 chamber?

I have no pictures but they come out looking like a long version of a 44 Auto Mag.

Please just stop. NO one has brought up anything valid, true, or of any substance.
Understand this! There is NO sizing or forming going on, when I fired the 7.62 out of the 30-06 and 7.62 Argentine. NONE!!! NONE!!! Please stop saying that. I fired them; not sure who else did. Hundreds of them. Easy going in, easy coming out. NO sizing. Stop saying that, everyone. Now, as I said, all 30-06s will not take a 7.62 nato, and a bolt action will NOT reform a case to fit.
And yes, the brass looks like a long 45 acp, in the 30-06 and with a little shoulder in the 7.65. I already said that.
And I told myself that I would stop posting on this ridiculous thread. I have no will power.
Rock Chucker; put that rolling eye thing here.
Pictures? NO; that was almost 50 years ago. I must have forgot my cell phone every time my company went to the M60 range.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Please just stop. NO one has brought up anything valid, true, or of any substance.
Understand this! There is NO sizing or forming going on, when I fired the 7.62 out of the 30-06 and 7.62 Argentine. NONE!!! NONE!!! Please stop saying that. I fired them; not sure who else did. Hundreds of them. Easy going in, easy coming out. NO sizing. Stop saying that, everyone. Now, as I said, all 30-06s will not take a 7.62 nato, and a bolt action will NOT reform a case to fit.
And yes, the brass looks like a long 45 acp, in the 30-06 and with a little shoulder in the 7.65. I already said that.
And I told myself that I would stop posting on this ridiculous thread. I have no will power.
Rock Chucker; put that rolling eye thing here.
Pictures? NO; that was almost 50 years ago. I must have forgot my cell phone every time my company went to the M60 range.

Not sure if your post is directed at me or Guffey, but why so tense? Just curious. Not sure I would want try in one of my rifles in my hands, ... near my face. Still would like to see one of those cases. And the M60 was a 7.62 X 51 NATO (308) round.... Not made in .30-06 as far as I know.

As my dad always said don't go away mad, just go away.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I assure you that my Rock Chucker does cam over. Come over and I will show you.
Otherwise, I didn't understand anything you said.
)

Mine too, as well as every single one I've ever used.

Don't worry Duffey doesn't understand anything he said either.....

It can be set up to "cam over". Doesn't have to....

No idea; I only respond to comments; don't look to see where they are from.
Whomever said I was forming and sizing the 7.62 rounds to fire them in a 30-06, is not listening.
Correct; M60s are 7.62. That is where the ammo came from.
Want me to go away? It don't work that way!

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
No idea; I only respond to comments; don't look to see where they are from.
Whomever said I was forming and sizing the 7.62 rounds to fire them in a 30-06, is not listening.
Correct; M60s are 7.62. That is where the ammo came from.
Want me to go away? It don't work that way!

See you don't (can't) read. I only asked to see a once fired case.

I did not respond to your request for a case, because I don't the any. Next time I go to the range, I will make one for you.
Also, please do not do anything I do or recommend, is my standard disclaimer.

Nah, Never mind. I wouldn't want to see you hurt, or encourage anyone else to hurt themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by F. Guffey:
Excuse my ignorance, F. Guffey, but how do you come to have so many presses?

quote:

Forgive, I did not see your question, I collect presses. I measure cam over. The most cam over I have found was on an A2 RCBS press, it had .037". The owner had it locked up, he was going to use a pipe, I suggested we use a socket to back the die out.

F. Guffey

Thanks for that. I'm a bit slow getting back, too.

Yours is an interesting collection. I collect old riflescopes, more compact but no cheaper.

quote:

Originally posted by F. Guffey:
meaningless rubbish
F. Guffey

it's like a goat rope. . you know it's going to be rubbish, but let's see what he makes up next

btw, the old reloader the schooled him that cases don't have headspace.... was me

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by F. Guffey:
meaningless rubbish
F. Guffey

it's like a goat rope. . you know it's going to be rubbish, but let's see what he makes up next

btw, the old reloader the schooled him that cases don't have headspace.... was me

Would you opine on how a 7.62 X 51 would head space in a .30-06 chamber?

I too have seen the results of this.

If the extractor holds the case well enough, the primer ignites and the case fire forms to the chamber.

I've seen 9mm fired in a .40 chamber. (it looks vaguely football shaped)

I've seen .308 fired in a .30-06 chamber.

I've seen a .300 Win Mag fired in a .340 WBY chamber.

I've seen a .300 BLK fired in a .223. (that was ugly, and I am surprised the gun didn't let go on the guy.)

If you hang out on public ranges long enough, you see strange stuff.

Essentially, you get a fire formed piece of brass that is too short to completely comply with the chamber if it has enough pressure to comply- if not it goes poot and the case is blackened.

How/why it happens sometimes, and not others, I have no idea. The 9 mm was at a USPSA match and the guy owned identical 9mm and .40 guns and was having issues with like every 3rd or 4th round not going off and wasn't hitting anything. He'd grabbed his Glock 22 when he thought he has a 17. Had 9mm mags and ammo, and declared production division.

The .300 WM in a .340 WBY was someone too stupid to be allowed to reproduce... Its magnum ammo, the gun is a magnum...



If the base of the chamber is big enough,

quote:

Originally posted by The Lord of Lawn Chair:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by F. Guffey:
meaningless rubbish
F. Guffey

it's like a goat rope. . you know it's going to be rubbish, but let's see what he makes up next

btw, the old reloader the schooled him that cases don't have headspace.... was me

Would you opine on how a 7.62 X 51 would head space in a .30-06 chamber?