Alright, here are 3 photos of a shell case I shot today. I felt a slight wind on my face with heavy powder smell shortly following. Stronger then normal. I eject the case and smoke rising from the mag well. After thinking for a second I picked up the case as I always do to inspect it. Didn't think anything of the wind(stronger then the wind that was blowing today) on my face. Any advice or tips would be helpful. I m wondering if I went too deeply when trimming the flash hole on the inside. If that is the case, it would be the fist time that happened to me sense I started about 5 months ago.(started trimming the flash hole inside the case)



The ink lines on the case is from marking loads when working up loads. This was at book max load of IMR 45.5 pushing a Hornady 220GR RN Interlock at around 2380FPS. I haven't crunched my numbers yet but around average for the last 5rd shot group.
This is fired from a 1903A3 Springfield in 30-06, why would it be anything else? :P

Could it be a loose primer pocket?Good Luck

It's a little hard to tell with certainty from your photo, but are your primers flattened?

If you have a macro switch on your camera's lens, it should be flipped for close-ups.

Headspace? Primers backing out, leaking and getting reseated maybe? Are those primers tight now? Just wondering.

I have been having issues with my press priming operation. It sometimes sticks and or goes in with a hard thud and crunch feel. Its not the primers but the set up its self. So I m going to get in there and clean it all. May have media in it. So I could have used too much force in which could have dented one or both of the components.
Thanks for the help, I ll keep posted whats happening.

The good thing is I was able to find out what powder charges worked the best. Now I need to narrow that down!

I will post more photos later. I m going to use the wife's cam to take the pix of the case better. The primers are a bit flat but no to the point of worry. Maybe a little more flat then normal. One thing I have found with this rifle is that all the primers, no matter what load gets the little rim around the firing pin indent. I wonder if it has anything to do with the style of rifle? Like that little bit of primer is getting a rim from sinking into the bolt though the same hole as the firing pin?
It is a original 1903A3 Springfield.

Well off to work, those kids are not going to teach them selves. Maybe in a perfect world...
Old Fort Western, Living History

I siwtched over to the lee tool (ther are others out their as well) to put in my primers. It gives me the feel to say if the primer pocket is loose and the brass should be scrapped.

I was never able to develop a good feel on my press to say that, and from your comment on the thud and crunch feel, you might want to consider it.

As to the rim around the firing pin indent, the only time that I see this ( in all of my guns)is when my loads have been a touch on the hot side.

I have never fired a 1903A Spring field though, so perhaps it is normal for this gun?

45.5 of what powder?
I`d personly consider the load as too hot until proved otherwise. Primer cratering may be a large fireing pin hole but gas leakage is not normal.

What do you mean by "trimming the flash hole", and what is it that you seek to accomplish by whatever this procedure is?

The primer pocket exhibits the classic appearance of excessive pressure. When they look like this, the primer will usually fall out on its own. Is the primer loose?

Of some interest is the soot on the body of the case. You'd think that if the pressure were really high that the neck would have given you a good seal. Your pics are not clear enough to see rub marks on the rear of the case. Was there a hard extraction? Could you supply a sharper image of the case rear? roger

More info please. Is the brass new, what was the powder type? Typically, that is a sign of over pressure loads. The primer pockets expands because the pressure is too high & the primer leaks gas.

what powder?
the offcenter strike and apparent cratering are indicative of an oversized firing pin hole.

in the top left pic, it is obvious that the brass was scraped(right hand about 2 o'clock till about 5:30)

if 45.5 grains was a book load, it looks like it was actually more powder in that case.. are you throwing or weighing charges

if this was a new case, did you happen to put large PISTOL primers in, as gas leaks generally don't happen on new cases... that is, they don't look like this in new cases, the primers are flattened and flowed on new cases if there's a leak

here's what I think, and its worth what you pay for it

the load was "new to you" and too hot for your gun and the brass had previously been shot with some too warm loads.. and, perhaps, your scale is slightly out of whack/your thrower is, and you got an overcharge ... that is to say, its a combination of small things that added up ... i had a like thing happen with nickle 708 cases

tear down three of the remaining cases and weigh the charges...

say, did you start with a book max load, for a first time with that powder/bullet/brass/primer combo?

primer seating and flashhole cleaning don't have much to do with this one

Poster sez black marks on the case are ink marks for case id.
I think overzealous primer pocket work or repeated use of red-line loads. Since the primer is not punctured, I'm gonna GUESS that the primer pocket has been enlarged thru repeated red line loads or too much primer pocket work.
If the primer was loose enough to get wind and smoke past it from around the primer, the poster should have felt a destinct difference when he seated the primer. If he is using a press to seat his primers, he needs to get a Lee or other hand operated device so he can "feel" the primer going home. IMO

Hey James, I see "stillbeeman" has the answer similar to what I'd have given you. He is correct that you should have been able to "feel the difference" when Seating the Primers - OR - your last Load was well beyond MAX for those Cases.

However, the feel of the Primer Seating should have told you that Blow-By was rapidly approaching. Basically Primer Seating had EVERYTHING to do with telling you ahead of time there was a problem ready to appear.

I've done it too, and stillbeeman's suggestion to get a Hand Held Primer Seater is an excellent way to detect the issue. They allow a better "feel" of the Pressure required to Seat the Primers.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
Poster sez black marks on the case are ink marks for case id.

Missed that. Thanks. But still would like sharper pics. roger

Sorry about not IDing the powder, I was in a rush to get out the door for work and forgot to fill in the hole name. (although ended up waiting on a car accident to clear)
The powder is IMR 4064. That is book max. I hardly ever touch the high end of pressures. I just see no need to keep red lining it.
The only marks on the case are normal ware, nothing new or different. The case was easy to remove like the 28 shots before.
Now I shoot mostly lead and so I have been using mid range loads of pistol powder for my lead. But I m going to stick to IMR 3031. Take up more case space and less playing with pistol powder in rifles. Just makes me uneasy. The only thing that would have pushed my case over would have been Unique powder.
As for metering my powder. I always weigh every shot on my RCBS 5-0-5 scale with a powder trickler.
Unlike this post from this morning I never hurry to finish my ammo. I always do it the right way. If I have to go make a note pick up and come back when I have more time.

New Photos will be on the next post. Got to beg the wife to use new Didi cam, of cores its better then mine. All my cash goes into guns and ammo loading supply's!

If you are getting crunching when seating primers your need to stop and fix the problem right then.
You should decap this primer by hand and examine it with a magnifying glass. Check to see if the skirt was notched or folded over by the seating problem. Then check the primer pocket with a new primer to see if it was expanded. No rocket science is required. If you can push it in with a bare finger the pocket is too loose.

fter attempting to clean the case, I pocked and pulled at the primer. Nothing, thought it was in there good. I laid it flat to wipe off the base and heard a click. So I used my finger nail again and pulled at it. Cannot see it or feel it move. But again Click! So It seems to be a loose primer pocket, must have been used in somewhere around 20 shots. I hardly never Max my loads out, no need to in my opinion. Most rifles are/were not designed to push max loads for there BEST accuracy.
Again that was only my opinion.

Thanks for all your help and opinions!

Whatcha' do, is push out the old one and see how a new one fits.

I think I m going to scratch off this one. I have about 115 cases for the old-06. I see this one becoming a wind chime soon.
Better safe then sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
...I shoot mostly lead and so I have been using mid range loads of pistol powder for my lead. But I m going to stick to IMR 3031. Take up more case space and less playing with pistol powder in rifles. Just makes me uneasy. ...

Hey James, I'd "guess" the Pistol Powder was what initially caused the problem. Dr. Oehler recently posted on this Board how you can get a 50% Pressure Increase simply due to Powder Position. It is perhaps the most compelling reason, from an unquestionable source, for not using Pistol Powders in rifle cases. Well, that plus the Ka-Booms.

Any of those Cases you used Pistol Powder in are now suspect. I'd encourage you to pay close attention to how much effort it takes to Seat Primers in them. Use a "New" Case for comparison so you can get a "feel" for it.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks HotCore! I ll check out that post

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
What do you mean by "trimming the flash hole", and what is it that you seek to accomplish by whatever this procedure is?

The primer pocket exhibits the classic appearance of excessive pressure. When they look like this, the primer will usually fall out on its own. Is the primer loose?

Sorry, here this is the tool and methed I m talking about. Lyman Flash Hole Uniformer