Dear All, did you notice the data on Reloader 17 for 180 gr. Nosler Partitions, using a 24" barreled 30-06 standard, which was posted above as

"30-06 pressure info (lots)" by Collins. It's on page 3, reply post by Ghubert.

1 2923 fps 63,700 psi
2 2921 fps 63,800 psi
3 2929 fps 65,100 psi
4 2924 fps 65,000 psi
5 2921 fps 64,300 psi

Mean 2924 fps 64,400 psi

58.0 Grains of Reloader 17

THIS IS INCREDIBLE! Has anybody been able to reproduce this data, or have you used this load, reproduced this velocity, and noticed long case life? One would expect good case life with retention of firm primer pockets, if PSI's are staying around 64,000.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards, AIU

Hard to believe - nobody has tried this fantastic load in their '06? AIU

Hi AIU.

This data comes from the ADI pressure laboratory in Australia ( these guys make Hogdon's powder for them) via M98.

What I'm trying to establish is the yield strength of brass.

M98 indicates that the yield strength for his Lapua brass appears to be around 70Kpsi, I suspect my softer Norma brass is around 62Kpsi or a bit lower.

Caveat emptor and all that.....

Hi Ghubert,

I've actually called Lapua and they claim their brass will "withstand" ~67,000 PSI before yielding. But, brass is an imperfect elastic metal, never returning 100% to its original size and form, even when subjected to relatively mild PSI. The brass stretches more and more with increasing PSI, returing less and less to its original form. I've found working with Quick Load that most brass, including Lapua, will begin to show fairly rapidly expanding primer pockets at PSIs over ~65,000 PSI and blown primers occurring at 75,000 to 80,000 PSI.

If I can get 3-5 reloadings with a pet load and still have useable primer pockets, I'm happy.

Have you tried Re17?

Regards, AIU

Looks to me those loads are simply taking the 06 to 270 pressure. QL calls it 65300.

I built a number of wildcats on 280Norma brass. With the pressure testing equipment we had at least the two lotts of brass we had seemed to start giving head expansion closered to the low side of 67,000. I now load them to a max of what QL calls 65,000 usually more in the 63-65000 range and I get 5-8 loadings after the forming load.

Trying it for myself as we speak AIU. I'm going to share my findings as others have.

I have found QL to be....erm....needing an experienced touch.

have a look at this thread for more on my QL adventures: http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/9131047461/p/3

I am currently thinking that something with the burn characteristics ( look at the slope of the pressure trace on QL) together with it's packing density is just the ticket for the 30.06

I think the load you point to above is not an advisable one, M98 loads to around 57 grains.

It all lends credence to the view that absolute pressure values are not as important as the ability of the cases to take pressure.

Lapua brass can certainly take pressure, a .338 lap mag and a 308 FT/R rifle convinced me of that.

Interesting thread guys. I do not use QL and my expereince is mostly with developing loads by the old method of micing case heads for 6.5X55 & 280 Ackley Imp going bak 15 years when reliable loads for modern rifles were not available.

The 30'06 load look scary to me & I would just drop it to 2800 fps and be very ahppy with an accurate load.

The other issue about pressure is that PEAK PRESSURE is the real issue. If you loaded 50 rounds, it is possible to get a couple that will spike at 68,000 psi & the rest average 64,000 psi. The norm then is to drop the load to a peak of 65k & not keep it at 68k for those spikes!

I have been give some Re17 to try in my 280 ackley Imp & my 7mm 08.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Looks to me those loads are simply taking the 06 to 270 pressure. QL calls it 65300.
I built a number of wildcats on 280Norma brass. With the pressure testing equipment we had at least the two lotts of brass we had seemed to start giving head expansion closered to the low side of 67,000. I now load them to a max of what QL calls 65,000 usually more in the 63-65000 range and I get 5-8 loadings after the forming load.

If that is the case why can we not get those sorts of speeds with powders like 4350 and 4831 without seeing pressure signs?

It's very interesting to note the extreme spread of the loads listed with RL17, 8fps. That in itself is pretty spectacular. Usually I load a 180 Partition with IMR4350, to around 2800 fps, good load performance etc, I'd try some of this, if someone tests it. I really am not to hot about a blown primer and locked up bolt, so let us know if the results are successful.

Thanks

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
It's very interesting to note the extreme spread of the loads listed with RL17, 8fps. That in itself is pretty spectacular. Usually I load a 180 Partition with IMR4350, to around 2800 fps, good load performance etc, I'd try some of this, if someone tests it. I really am not to hot about a blown primer and locked up bolt, so let us know if the results are successful.

Thanks

Jerry

Yeah, cheers Jerry!

Nice to see you both blessing the project and condemning us pioneers in the smae sentence....

RL17 is proving to be in a class by itself in many of my rifles

2725 fps 200 gr 30-06
3200 fps 130 gr 6.5 rem mag
3000 fps 260 gr 375 Ruger

and all with no loss of primer pockets after several loadings. On all 3 of those loads I never did load high enough to experience pressure signs. Quit loading up just because ....... chicken I guess!

quote:

Yeah, cheers Jerry!

Nice to see you both blessing the project and condemning us pioneers in the smae sentence....

Ghubert: Just experience talking. BTW no condemnation intended.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:

quote:

Yeah, cheers Jerry!

Nice to see you both blessing the project and condemning us pioneers in the smae sentence....

Ghubert: Just experience talking. BTW no condemnation intended.

Jerry

I know mate, no worries.


It's just that your choice of words were awfully comforting....

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Dear All, did you notice the data on Reloader 17 for 180 gr. Nosler Partitions, using a 24" barreled 30-06 standard, which was posted above as

"30-06 pressure info (lots)" by Collins. It's on page 3, reply post by Ghubert.

1 2923 fps 63,700 psi
2 2921 fps 63,800 psi
3 2929 fps 65,100 psi
4 2924 fps 65,000 psi
5 2921 fps 64,300 psi

Mean 2924 fps 64,400 psi

58.0 Grains of Reloader 17

THIS IS INCREDIBLE! Has anybody been able to reproduce this data, or have you used this load, reproduced this velocity, and noticed long case life? One would expect good case life with retention of firm primer pockets, if PSI's are staying around 64,000.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards, AIU

What brass and primers did you use mate?

Guy's this isn't my data.

hi bob,

I think M98 used Lapua brass. I'm not sure about the primers.

Interesting, now those that overload cartridges
are now "Pioneers".

quote:

Originally posted by hawkins:
Interesting, now those that overload cartridges
are now "Pioneers".

We're finding out where the appropriate loads are in an absence of published data Hawkins.

If somebody was claiming to get 3000fps from a 30.06 with 180 grain bullets using IMR4895 then yes, you might have a point.

ALL the details you need to know is on the spread sheet... barrel length, primer type case type ,CAOL , off set values , correction values etc etc
Daniel

I've ordered some Re17, and I'm going to try it with many of my guns, especially my '06 AI and .375 AI. Regards, AIU

AIA Sounds good, I'm looking for some more positive loads for my 30 Gibbs.

At first I thought I would have to try it out, but then I thought if I want a 30 magnum I'll just use my 300 H&H with good handloads and certainly less pressure.

Besides the 30-06 is about perfect with 180 gr. bullets at 2700 to 2800 FPS. I like 2700 myself as the bullets work perfect and it kills as well as most 300 magnums anyway..

I have never understood the mindset of trying to make a caliber something it was not designed to be, that extra 100 or so FPS means zilch in the hunting field and in killing power or trajectory...

No miracles here, just more noise and additional recoil..

Hi gents, a quick update on the R17 load development but an apology in advance as tests were compromised due to time constraints.

Finding myself in the position of not having a load or a zero-ed rifle 5 days before going to Russia I lent on a friend to take me down to his patch to give a belated test to the loads I've made as a result of this thread.

I tested three of each of the 200 grain Accubond and 180 grain Nosler Partition loads. I was shooting off the bonnet of my car in a famre's field, with the light fading rapidly so there are flyers and I couldn't get velocity readings for most of the Partition loads. due to time constraints only the three top loads in 1 grain increments were tested.

200 grain Accubond, Reloder 17:



From left to right:

53 grains:

Mean: 2610
ES:
SD:
Group size: 2.0"

54 grains:

Mean: 2640
ES:
SD:
Group size: 1.34"

55 grains:

Mean: 2695

ES:
SD:
Group size: 1.28"

180 grain Partition, Reloder 17:



From left to right:

55 grains:

Mean: 2690
ES:
SD:
Group size: 1.31"

56 grains:

Mean: N/A
ES:
SD:
Group size: 1.09"

57 grains:

Mean: N/A

ES:
SD:
Group size: 1.31"



Concerning the 200 grain Accubond the velocities obtained were incredible for my 21.5" barrel. The 53 and 54 grain loads showed no signs of excess pressure, pressure and velocities correlated very well with Quickload ( my lot of powder must have a very similar burn rate to that of the QL data file) and M98's excellent data on the reloading forum.

As predicted the 55 grain load produced a hair under 2700 fps and showed extractor marks on the case head, indicating ~ 62 kpsi with my norma brass. Unfortunately the rifle is playing it's old game of shooting tighter as the pressure goes up, hence my thread on how far to back off when seeing pressure signs. Assuming the flyers in the 54 and 55 grain loads are me it seems that the 54 grain load @ an inch and a bit and 2650fps is good enough to take hunting with just a couple of clicks up on the scope.

The 180 grain Nosler Partition loads were frustrating and encouraging in equal measure. Unfortunately the light had ran out as far as the chronograph was concerned so velocities were unobtainable for the all but the first shot of the these loads, a single velocity of 2688 was obtained from the first shot of the 55 grain load and an estimate of velocity made from the QL and M98's data. The first thing that was evident was that these were all very low pressure loads. In fact the cases, full length resized for this sort of work, were uniformly sooted on exaction with slightly less visible on the 57 grain load. It seems that my rifle is not behaving exactly like M98's in this case, getting less velocity and apparent pressure signs for the same loading. I was very frustrated by not being able to get velocity readings for this set of loads and will repeat the test when I get back and have more time.

I only shot three rounds of each load and in less than ideal conditions but all things considered Reloder 17 seems to indeed be magic in the 30-06 and I shall be taking the 54 grain 200grain Accubond load to Russia. My only reservation is that I'm seeing large ES and SD on the Chrono and also seeing flyers on the target. With tweaking of OAL and charge this may or may not get better but for now I can kill stuff.

Any comments, criticisms and instances of outright abuse are welcome as always!

Sorry AUI, very little of substance on the 180 grain Partitions but the 200 grain data is interesting.

Amir, your results look very promising. Bases on your group shape with the accubonds, I would expect the out lying shot print with the other two if you brought in your OAL a little bit. If you "worked in" you OAL just like you worked up, I think you could find the magic combination.