Studied,ag.engineering,Minored in forestry,1/2 way through,I decided I wanted to make some money,not listen to repetitve talk,Never recived a degree.But I know plants,and how to grow them,I know the machinery to plant and harvest them,on the side I can fix existing equipment,design,and make better ways of doing things.Been asked to,and accepted,to give lectures to college classes state wide.Sometimes sweat equity pays The biggest perk is that I now have 700+ acres of land to roam daily,armed if I desire .Clay.

I graduated with Honors with a B.S. degree in Crop Science. Before that, I served in the Army during the early 70's when it wasnt "fashionable" to do so.

This girl sounds scary to me, anyone who professes to be going to college and stereotypes people like she does tells me she is not a critical thinker. Either she is a liberal arts major, or she can kiss off any chance of any science related degree as she clearly is not a critical thinker. (LOL)

I'm sorry that I didn't notice and contribute to this thread at an earlier date (too busy elk hunting and preparing for the same). It looks like you have received a boatload of good suggestions for refuting the arguments of the young lady(?) in question; suggestions that, in fact, speak volumes about the level of intellect, not just education, among the participants of this forum. As stated by other participants in this discusssion, it's obvious that the education level of members of a hunting forum such as this is probably different than the mean education level of hunters in general. However, I believe that we can safely assert that hunters, as a group, demonstrate a possibly superior intellect in readily accepting and understanding the realities of life and death, rather than existing in some plasticized fantasy world where wildlife live forever and are endowed with human traits and emotions. In other words, we're smart enough and competent to harvest our own food, including essential amino acids from animal protein.

I signed the poll with my PhD in Ecology, but feel that my formal education is often a poor substitute for the outdoor understanding that my father's generation had, often without the benefits of even a high school diploma.

Anvil:

While you are concerned about how many people are into firearms and hunting according to some person from Harvard, I would look at it in the opposite prospective.

I am a native of Virginia. I am a direct decendant of people who first landed in Virginia in 1607. I am 18th generation in this country.

I did my undergrad education in Massachusetts at the state university. As an under grad I did a lot of Grad level courses and independent study. Thru contacts I was able to do a lot of research at Harvard, Tufts, Brandeis, M.I.T., Boston College, Boston University etc. I spent a lot of time on those campuses.

This was from 1971 to 1975. In those days, being from Virginia and having a southern accent, I had to spend considerable time trying to re educate some of these people that our social activities in Virginia on a Saturday night did not include burning crosses and wearing white sheets, and doing the occasional lynching of someone who was black. I wish I had a nickel for every time someone asked me if I or any of my family was in the Ku KLux Klan. They assumed that being from down south, I was a member of the Klan.

I learned from that time in Massachusetts and particularly at Harvard, that these people have an idea that they are the center of enlightenment. They act like Boston is the center of the universe. The look at anyone that is not from their 'born with a silver spoon in their mouth world' as uneducated and stupid.

All I know is that they can criticize the south and call everyone uneducated rednecks, however this is fac:. I was part of several different school districts in several southern states ( my dad was an Air Force officer,so we moved a lot) that had to integrate in the 1960s. A driving force for integration was all the politicans from Massachusetts. In 1958, the state of Massachusetts legislature, sent a note to the Alabama legislature, indicating since they were having so much trouble integrating their schools to meet new federal guidelines, that the State of Massachusetts would send " experts" down to Alabama at their expense to assist Alabama in integration. Alabama declined.

In 1971 the Federal Government told the city of Boston that its school districts did not meet federal integration standards. The following year, schools were having 50% attendance levels.
The people who had to pioneer integration, could not and would not meet Federal integration standards. To my knowledge, Boston still has not met Federal Integration standards given to them in 1971.

From political pull etc, Massachusetts gets to dodge what it wants to. They can point the accusational finger at everyone else, but when it applies to them it is a different story. Sounds just like the "politically" correct crowd of today, doesn't it.

Not everyone who lives in New England and New York are like that, but It sure seems to produce a lot of people that think they are above it all.
The rest of the nation needs their enlightment and guiding light, according to them.

Just like Diane Feinstein in California on gun control. She demands California needs gun control and the average citizen does not need a gun to be allowed to protect themselves and their homes. However it was found out that Diane Feinstein has a concealed weapons permit in California and carries a gun on her person.
When questioned about it, pointing out her views against other citizens being able to do the same, her response was: She was an important and high profile person. She has people who do not like her, there fore she needs to be able to carry a firearm to defend herself if attacked.

When the reporter asked then why shouldn't the average citizen be able to do so also, her response was: They are not as important as I am, so they do not need to defend themselves, because they have less likelyhood of being attacked when compared to me.

I am sure your Ha'va'd collegue is probably from the same school of thought as is Diane Feinstein, who is originally from New York, by the way. They are all special.!!! Just ask their Daddy!!! The girls were all raised to be princesses and the boys are all raised to be white knights.

Laws that apply to the masses don't apply to them. When they do, they just get some expensive attorney to get them off of it.

And when people from there screw with me and act like I am un educated because I hunt, own a firearm, or because I am a southerner, I just play along with them. I tell them they are 100 percent right, and just watch them go off on their self righteous schpeel. After they have finished their speech, I ask them if the 9 yrs of post high school education I have counts on their question about 'my' education?

Don't waste your time on those type of people. They fly the flag or righteousness so high they can't see the ground.

Sounds to me like a lack of education on these peoples part. The only reason we are as strong a country as we are is the fact we are a armed population. The right to bear arms keeps giving them the right to do the things they wants to do, like recieve a higher education. Or whine about how this country is run. for the past two hundred years the english were the only ones brave enough to try an invasion, and our armed population ran them off. I would love to see where they stand if we get invaded. I am sure it won't be in front of me as I level a volley off at the insuing invaders. I love how quick a persons position changes when there life is on the line.

BS in Mining Engineering, MS of Metallurgical Engineering, Licences Professional Civil Engineer. Shot my first gun when I was 5 killed my first animal when I was 6 and have been doing so from then on! Educaion has nothing to do with guns and hunting. I have frinds that have more schooling than me and friends that have less. We all love one thing, hunting and our weapons, as god intended it!

Your little friend's assumption is a poor one! All Ivy league graduates are not nearly as smart as they would like us to believe... They pay WAY to much for the same amount of schooling you could get elesewhere... Shoot I paid less for all my schooling that a semester would cost at Harvard... Names have never impressed me and niether does this girl. Shoot on the average the school I went to puts out more CEO's and VP's per capita than ANY of the Ivy league schools do for a fact.

BFA Fine Arts, 1974
Now I work for a museum.

Army(doh!), small town raised(doh!) beer swilling and a buffoon(double Doh!), but doing a degree in Medical science/pharmaceutics part time

Karl.

[ 11-22-2003, 15:28: Message edited by: Karl ]

I feel very sorry for your adversary. . .but it is obvious that not everyone is smart enough to support and promote the responsible shooting sports. There will always be those who can't see the forest through the trees, those who take delight in attacking institutions because they can't find anything better to do, and those who are just plain stupid - which of those fit your adversary. . .?

I have a Bachelor's Degree in Business Administration and 32 years of federal service as a Contracting Officer, most recently in Foreign Military Sales before I retired.

Your adversary most probably does not venture out into the world where there is anything interesting going on, where there is any fun happening, or where there is anything dangerous present. A lot of women "anti's" just don't like real men, they like pussies who are afraid of guns.

Javelina

This question got me thinking.......Of the gun owners I know, what are their educational levels, hmmmm.
Okay, here at work (not counting me):
4 PhD.s
1 M.B.A.
1 B.A.
In my family: 2 B.A.s
1 MD. (Neurosurgeon)
Friends: 1 high school w/some college
1 B.A.
1 Attorney (in the State Attorney
General's Office) w/M.B.A. as well
Not a bad showing. And I'm probably leaving some people out whom I can't remember right now.

Anvil63,
wasting your time with this one Anvil!
won't listen, doesn't want to listen, typical!
Ask next time when they are tucking into meat of any description,how do their morals allow someone to slaughter that animal on their behalf.If you can't pull the trigger yourself EAT GRASS!!!

Griff

Having being graduated twice (degree level) in two complementary careers, I would go the "empiric" way and tell (or even show) the mentioned "stupid liberal anti's" just to take a look at any of the threads existing in this forum ... here member who isn�t teaching is learning - and most of time is doing both things � indeed is a fact that a serious hunter (Saeed) is the one that allowed hunters all over the world to share and increase their knowledge (thus the matter of consider us to be either uneducated and / or barbaric is completely inadequate, to say at least ... )

Now speaking in the quality of the �formal academic� education, I am sure not many "liberal anti�s" (stupid or not) could (or would) understand such a complex science like ballistics, in all its forms: internal, external and effects ... not to be said any reloader, smith, hunter and /or shooter had to learn at least the basics of this before reloading, smiting, hunting and / or shooting) ... an knowledge that increase every time we practice our shooting, reloading, hunting activities... in fact ballistics (that by itself gather various others sciences that should be studied apart - like math, chemistry, physics, etc) is one of the most complex sciences to be studied ... and not to tell her the knowledge of animals� anatomy (and animals � behavior) any hunter has ...

Anti�s are dangerous all over the world because they are always trying to limit our freedom of using weapons (I wonder why they behave like this ... hummmm), so we must limit them from increasing their power, even using such stupid arguments as this lady appears to be doing ...

Using and owning weapons is not only our right but the proper way they are use is our responsibility (in this particular case, hunting legally and what is most important - IMO - ethically)

High school diploma. Huked on foniks reelie wurcked fer mee.