The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Hodgdon published loads: Trailboss and EVERY rifle and pistol cartridge...Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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This looks like fun: http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf For lead OR jacketed bullets. Basically fill up the case to the bottom of the bullet with trail boss (so it doesn't compress), dump it out and weigh it. That's the max load. Use 70% of the max as your starting load. However, in their examples for the .243 Winchester the min is 52% of the max. And on their online loading data .233 Rem has a max of 4.0 grains and no min. So some experimentation is in order. | ||
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Gordo and I are gonna use Trail Boss with .223,.243,and 270 this coming week in the field with LeeLoaders and dippers. Will take camera for reference.Hope the weather cooperates. I will be mainly concentrating on the .243 while he experiments with the others.I`m attempting to have a 6mm squirrel rifle or a high power coyote rifle in the field at the same time,depending on what is chambered,or what game presents itself. We will see how Trail Boss performs in real time in field conditions.I anticipate success. | |||
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Blue Dot.. I love it.. I can mention 2 words..  and the bait, gets someone getting right on his soap box... | |||
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Only if you are trying your best to get people Killed with Exploding firearms. | |||
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Darn, I guess I didn't notice that the sky was falling..... Been using BlueDot for decades in a variety of firearms like the .45-70, .45LC, .38-55, .223 Rem and most recently in the .338 Magnum, .260 and .22-250. No problems whatsoever - just low recoil/low report/high accuracy results. But for the faint of heart, please use Trailboss. Please. . | |||
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Some may have been traumatized during childhood by the colour blue... | |||
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Or maybe it's the fact that a shooter here on this forum blew up his gun while using Seafire's Blue-Dot loads. HC has a valid point. Smart thing to do would be to go with the new safer alternative......................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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Has anyone tried any of the trailboss loads? How do they shoot? I'm only interested in 308Win. Powder here is very expensive plus for plinking at the range I really don't need a lot of speed as we only have a 100 yard range. So, a trailboss load would be ideal for a bit of fun on the range and getting powder here can be difficult so it would be great to get a one pound jug that would load nearly 700 rounds of 308! That would be a lot of plinking without any worry where the next tub of powder was going to come from. Of course bullets are also in short supply... I guess I'm never happy, and while I'm at it some subsonic loads would be great as well as I have a moderator on the rifle and if the loads were stable it would be great to be able to do some plinking without ear protection. I guess it would be an ideal way to introduce a new shooter as well. | |||
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Thaks for the Back Up DJ! 
----- A sincere Best of luck to you guys foolish enough to continue using Blue Dot improperly. ----- For those of you who have never been Flim-Flammed into using Blue Dot improperly, and are actually "smart enough" to Learn from others, you might find the following of interest. I tried Blue Dot myself and was a fan - at first. Then I began noticing Erratic Pressure Spikes. Started watching it closer, and sure enough, there are random strange Pressure Increases when using Blue Dot as it was NEVER intended. Then we had 338vt nearly have a Ka-Boom. And we had Mr. Ben Amonette's response to a query about Blue Dot: Posted Sat Mar 08 2008 "We have never tested or recommended using Blue Dot for reloading rifle cartridges. We have heard of the practice and have received calls from reloaders looking for data. Our response has consistently been that we do not recommend Blue Dot be used in rifle applications due to us not having and test data to verify that it is safe. Blue Dot is a fast burning powder for rifle cartridges and pressure spikes can easily occur because of this. Thanks for your interest in contacting us and let me know if you have any additional questions. Ben Amonette, Consumer Service Manager, Alliant Powder Company" Next we had Red C's actual Blue Dot Ka-Boom, which apparently was not enough to keep seafire from contuning to post his total ignorance of using Blue Dot improperly. As you read this thread, some (including seafire) believe it was a Double Load. Perhaps it was and then again perhaps it was not. It was of particular interest to notice seafire simply "dreamed-up" the Load he recommended to Red C for use in his rifle. Here is a thread where Dr. Oehler measured a 50% Increase in Pressure simply due to Powder position inside a case. It does not take a lot of intelligence to realize if it can happen in that small of a Case, with a low volume of Powder, then it is very likely that it will also happen under similar conditions in Larger Volume Cases. ----- As for me, once I verified the Pressure Excursions were real, I quit using Blue Dot - improperly. It does appear that seafire is never going to quit attempting to Kill someone with his ignorance. It is way to obvious seafire simply has no grasp about anything concerning Pressure, "OR" he simply does not care if people experience Ka-Booms. But, when I catch it, I do intend to respond as long as Saeed will allow me to correct it. Again, best of luck to those of you still foolish enough to continue using Blue Dot Reduced Loads. It is just a matter of time until someone gets hurt or Killed. | |||
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FYI, there's only 9 ounces of powder in the 1 pound bottle because it's so 'fluffy'. But at the place where I bought my first bottle where powder is usually $20 a pound, Trail Boss was $13.
Still wear ear protection. It's got a sharp crack to it. Yeah, I had to try that too.
My 13 year old 85 pound boy loves shooting my m1903a1 now that it doesn't knock him over. Also using 135gr lead bullets at around 1400fps. Hot Core: yes, double charged loads do seem to be a problem with any powder, not just blue dot. | |||
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I've tried trail boss in 6.5x55 with a .263" 139gr fmj (prvi partizan) - 10 gr - 901 fps to 13 gr - 1246 fps 10 steps altogether and avg fps from each sub load Bit of a laugh with a whooping drop at 100 yds from my usual deer load (15" to 12"). | |||
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Yawn. Whatever. Like I said in my post - but which the poster apparently overlooked in his self-righteous zeal - Please use TrailBoss. Please. . | |||
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don't like blue-dot? try red dot or unique. the 1800 fps is easy to hit with those. then there's sr 4759., 2400. how about no powder in your 223? there is another whole world out there guys do some reading. | |||
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Hey Lamar, I've done that by using Primer Power and Pellets in 22Hornet cases, but never bothered to try it in a 223Rem. Had to create a False Shoulder for the Pellet to Seat against in the 22Hornet case. Removed the Expander and Resized the case. Re-inserted the Expander and pushed it into the case-mouth just a bit so there was still a "tighter neck spot" a little lower that the Pellet base Seated against. Got 2-3 shots before Primer Residue was so bad that the Pellet would not Exit the barrel. Don't know if the 223Rem Neck is long enough to do that or not. Is that what you are talking about? If not, enlighten me.  | |||
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Well...today Gordo brought over 2 bottles of Trail Boss.I set up a Lyman scale and the Lee scale and we started weighing dipped charges verifying them against each other numerous times to be sure of weights.With less than a tenth grain difference(or perfect) we were satisfied. 1.0cc dipper yielded 4.1gr on both scales from both bottles for the 223 Rem. 1.9cc dipper yielded 9gr for the 243Win. 3.1cc dipper yielded 14gr for the 270Win. Then he loaded up some full power loads of 130gr Nosler BT,Ramshot Magnum,Federal primer. All brass was fireformed to their respective rifles with full power loads,and all loads were loaded using the LeeLoader tools and mallets.Although somewhat crude, seating the bullet with the mallet is extremely accurate every time.Also noted from a seating depth mistake that there is PLENTY of neck tension. The camera will be taken and results posted.Should be a fun and educational afternoon. Regards, Mick Berger | |||
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Trail Boss is dirty, correct? | |||
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bet some one just can't wait for that to happen just to 'prove his point', can they? no one is MAKING anyone use those or any other loads for that matter... each handloader makes his own choices and is responsible for his own loads and his own safety.. what makes this powder an exception to the rule? and in the past, Alliant HAS made recommendations of Blue Dot.. I have seen it listed both for the 22 Hornet and the 221 Fireball... Alliants claim you post, has only stated in reality that they have NOT TESTED it.. yet data has gone out with their approval on yet faster powders....Unique, Red Dot, Green Dot to just name a few... face it... your personality lies somewhere between Chicken Little on one side.. and Al Gore and his Global Warming crusade on the other..( read desperate for attention).... besides, why argue.. don't you have killing several hundred deer on your schedule this week?? that has got to be more important than pissing on Blue Dot for the millionth time.. | |||
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not really... I take a bore snake to the range with me... if groups open up, I run that thru the bore and life is good once again.. | |||
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Seafire, First of all I would never suspect for a second that you would intentially try and hurt anyone. I do however agree with HC so far as that your loads are dangerous enough to do just that. One poster on this board HAS blown up a rifle using your loads. I know you will assume that it was due to a double load but there is NO PROOF that a double load was the case. I read the thread. The unfortunate loader thought he might have made a mistake but it could have just as well been a detonation from a light load. We will NEVER know which it really was. But the simple fact is that there is a Blown up rifle due to using Blue Dot in Rifle cases. Calling in Chicken Litte, and Al Gore is nothing but foolish rhetoric. HC can be over the top but sometimes he's right..................................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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This whole Blue Dot thing has me a bit concerned. I have several pounds of it. I have never loaded it in a shotgun (for which it was apparently intended). I have tried it in several pistols. Luckily they were all pretty strong Rugers. My most recent trial with it was in the .38-40 chambered Ruger Blackhawk (dual cylinder...the other cylinder is a 10m/m). The load chosen was taken from a book, and was in the middle of the range recommended for the bullet-weight used. After the first 5 shots, I tried to eject the empty cases. Couldn't do it by hand. Couldn't do it by bumping the ejector rod with a mild tap from a hammer. Couldn't do it with a medium-hard whack with the hammer. Had to remove the cylinder and pound the cases out with a piece of drill rod and a heavy lead-faced "dead-blow" hammer I use in my workshop. I KNOW none of my cases were double-charged. I weighed each and every charge to 1/20th of a grain (Yes, Virginia, I have a scale which weighs to .05 grain). Besides, you can't fit two charges of Blue Dot in a .38-40 case without it being very noticeable if you look at the loading block (tray) of charged cartridges before proceeding to seat the bullets. And I do that "check-peek" EVERY time when loading pistol rounds on anything except a progressive loader. (The only pistol rounds I load progressively these days are the .32 S&W Long which has its own dedicated Star reloader, the .45 auto which also has a dedicated Star reloader, and the .44 Magnum which uses a "case-full" of 2400 and has its own dedicated Dillon 550-B.) Anyway. Have had the same bothersome sort of results with Blue Dot in a couple of other chamberings in my Ruger Blackhawks. (One is a "Bisley" in .45 olt.) So, I have quit using Blue Dot for any of my pistols, as a matter of convenience and safety. It is not that I have any suspicions about the loads which have been recommended to me. Nor do I think ANY person here or anywhere else would carelessly try to guide me into using anything they felt might even remotely border on dangerous. Rather, I personally suspect that maybe lot to lot variations are such that MAYBE Blue Dot needs to be approached with a new work-up for every lot? Loading for over 100 different cartridges, I just don't have time for that when I can use other powders which are more consistent in their performance. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I've used Trail Boss for about a year now for cast bullets. When I started, I got on the phone with the help guys at Hodgdons. They gave me the 70% start, but would not commit to the full case as a full maximum. They really suggested careful work up. The fellow I spoke to was concerned that since I was working with a double, an over and under, and an older drilling, he was hesitant and suggested that maximums might not be a full case. I've used it in 32 Special, 8x57 R, and 9.3x74. The starting load has typically been the most accurate so far. I have not yet used it for jacketed bullets. I like it a lot better than pistol powders because you don't have a lot of empty case or the need to use fillers. I get the heebie jeebies with fillers, although I've never had any problems. With the loose powder, I just never got great accuracy. OK, but fliers would crop up. I had a couple health issues this year, and TB let me keep shooting at my backyard 50 yard range. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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I hear ya Black Fly,I`m currently on the mend myself. Todays test loads on the thread I posted were very mild indeed.I could see the shot hit out of a 243Win and a 100gr bullet like it was a 22LR.Just what I needed for cabin fever. Todays tests were all jacketed bullets.I anticipated success and succeeded. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Hodgdon published loads: Trailboss and EVERY rifle and pistol cartridge...
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thousands of deer on top of it all...truly an accomplished individual.. 