Since this person keeps wanting to advertise that I personally have a mission to kill someone with Blue Dot loads...

I'd like to point out the following post he made on the subject...

I at first was ready to give Seafire a hard time about "passing the plate". However, I think he has a valid point that shooting can be expensive, especially with some of the components I see folks championing. And goooood gosh, the true Big Bore(ing) folks with their shoulder cannons do shoot a "wad" of cash down range.

I enjoy a deal. And occasionally there are some excellent bargains out there. Roger is constantly bringing us info about excellent buys on Powder. And if you all have not tried the 0.224" 50gr & 55gr and 0.243" 80gr Rem PLHPs, you are in for a special treat both accuracy wise and billfold wise.

Now as far as "passing the plate", I'm still ready to PTL(a Charlotte based TV church rip-off)(pass the loot) for a Blue Dot Load Manual. Doesn't need to be Leather Bound and doesn't need to be fancy. I'll even pay for one with Roger's finger prints all over it.

So, quit whinning and get to printing if you want me to PTL.

Link:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=708106385#708106385

personally I think the guy is jealous that the attention this work has gotten and the amount of appreciation sent to me and not his way, since he views himself as the forums self appointed reloading authority and guru.... that he now feels that he has to tell everyone that someone is going to kill someone else, so he can be the center of attention again....

personally, I am tired of the slander.. and the accusations...

One member had a mishap, and that member admitted to being distracted that could happen to anyone... that member was man enough to admit it, while also sharing his mistake with the forum so other forum members can avoid it happening to them... I think that all of us have the utmost respect for him and his concerns...

but the point remains, it was not a fault of the powder or the load data, it was the mistake made at the reload bench.. which can happen with a lot of different powders to ANY handloader out there...

but one guys seems to be on a self apppointed mission to make accusations that allow him to be the center of attention, and act like he is some sort of authority on it...

he makes accusations that no loads were pressure tested.. so they are therefore unsafe....

well he has also not offered any pressure testing proof to show that those loads are overpressure specs either...so its a two way street...

But I will highly recommend that anyone who wants to use ANY Blue Dot loads, to read his posts as well, so that they can make an educated decision on their own....

instead of listening to scare tactics by ONE forum member.. and then accusing people who ignore his "posts" and use the Blue Dot info anyway and telling them they evidently don't care about the life of their kids or the other people who may be shooting around them....

Me and enough forum members feel he is a pompous ass, not only for this reason... but that is his business not mine....

but some of the accusations he makes are strictly conjecture on his part..

enough is enough..

John, it's all been said ,so why not just let it die? Nothing usefull will come out of a shit slinging rehashing! Most of us have a fair amount of intelligence and can make our desisions based on what has been nastilly repeated over and over.
Let the forum move on with a little dignity. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
John, it's all been said ,so why not just let it die? Nothing usefull will come out of a shit slinging rehashing! Most of us have a fair amount of intelligence and can make our desisions based on what has been nastilly repeated over and over.
Let the forum move on with a little dignity. roger

very well put Roger.

Hot Core was only mildly less obnoxious in his "Mortie" persona. Suggesting that a forum member would try and kill someone is so ridiculous that anyone with half a grain of sense will realize how stupid it was to say.

I don't think reduced loads with the potential for double charging are a good idea but I'm willing to discuss it back and forth in an intelligent manner and hopefully with an open mind.......................................DJ

bartsche is a very wise man! seafire2, you have indeed taken a beating and you have shown your mettle by withstanding it patiently! Even now! I admire you for that!

But if I may put myself in the firing line; Hot Core is my friend and mentor! He does mean well when he cautions us. People do make mistakes - that's why there's so many people! I make mistakes. I know it. So I plan my activities around that possibility. If I want to use a reduced load, I will make sure that a double charge is still safe! That sort of thing. I had a mishap - but I had previously made sure that a primer alone cannot push the bullet into the bore where it would allow another cartridge to be chambered and fired. But this is where reduceds loads get dangerous if we are not aware of it - a double reduced load can push a bullet just far enough into the bore to allow another cartridge to be chambered. So please be sure to make allowences for all possibilities! I can't be the only one prone to mistakes!

So seafire2, please accept my appologies on behalf of Hot Core for the ribbing he has been giving you! And keep your post coming - I enjoy reading them!
I have learned heaps from you!

Good and safe shooting to you all!

Well, here goes...

Hey I was loading some smokeless 45-70 loads the other day. They were NOT reduced loads. I was working with IMR 4198. I was using a Lyman reloading manual. This case would EASILY fit a TRIPLE CHARGE in the case. So by some definitions (and NOT just Hot Core's), this is somehow unsafe and I'm just sure fire gonna kill myself and should be thrown off any shooting range, etc, etc, ?

Sorry but the basic premise is pure crap.

If you can't handload with reasonable care and pay attention to wtf you are doing, you need to switch to golf and sell all your shooting stuff. I know I'm sounding like a *ss, but this whole thing is just stupid carried to a new level of stupid. We're off the charts retarded stupid here now guys. Give me a friggin break.

303,

If you're a friend of HC's, (and I'm serious now) you should sit him down and explain the concepts of "Libel" to him. Libel charges ARE ENFORCEABLE on internet forums. It's happened before and cases have been made and successfully won for it. Look it up if you don't (or more likely HC doesn't) believe it.

You seem a decent guy, but HC has gone way, way past permittable behavior. Not only in his attacks on Seafire, but also painting with a wide brush that ANYONE who uses these loads ARE DOING SO BECAUSE THEY WANT TO HURT AND KILL PEOPLE. He needs to calm down and take a tranquilizer and talk to a lawyer before he says crap like that again. I didn't really have a dog in this fight either way until he said that. I use blue dot loads in my .223. His statements included me in his wide accusations. That HUGELY PISSES ME OFF. I wonder how many others painted with that broad brush feel the same?

He can be held legally accountable for crap he says on this forum. It wouldn't take long to retrieve the evidence with a subpoena.

OK, rant off.

--EDIT

When I'm loading blue dot loads. I hand measure each charge. I do NOT use a powder measure. I hand throw each charge onto the scale pan. Then I hand pour the charge into the case via funnel. I watch the powder flow into the case. Then I seat the bullet RIGHT THEN. While the case is in my hand.

I did those "example" 45-70 loads I mentioned the exact same way. I also have other 45-70 loads to try, not just those. Some powders fill the case nearly full or completely full like Benchmark and Varget. Hodgdon lists loads for both on their website. If they shoot well, I'll load them. If they don't I won't. Pretty simple.

I've never had a problem and I never will because of the method I use.

If you use a different method, great. Don't load blue dot.

If you don't want to shoot "reduced loads", great.

Don't.

Your choice.

Have a nice day.

Well I do feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place!

Slowpoke Slim, I wouldn't mind hearing more about your 45-70!

Well OK. Hopefully new reloaders will be aware of how careful we reloaders need to be! I think many of us more 'experienced' reloaders have reviewed their practices. I do create such reduced loads but not routinely so I have to be extra careful!

But hey, look at it on the bright side, seafire2 has proved himself to be a great guy!



PS That doesn't mean I actually support reduced loads!

Seafire2;

Relax good buddy. You are doing just fine. I, along with 85-90% of this board, appreciate your contributions here and your willingness to share the benefit of your experiences. Much of that sharing allows us to avoid going through the morass of possibilities to solve a particular situation when you have done that road work for us.

I truly think that Hotsh*t has a personality deficiency that he is not aware of. After being told many time his rhetoric is offensive and defeats the purpose of such boards, he does seem to bask in the dust that he creates. In a way I feel sorry for him as he probably does have some experiences that we could learn from if presented with a little more humility and sugar to say the least.

I've learn to give up on trying to reason or debate or trashtalk with him and have chosen to use the ignore function available to us all here. Sometimes we run into people who will not respond to the crowd that tells them that their presentation is offensive and it seems like the best idea to avoid contact with those people. How do you do that in real life? You simply avoid having any physical contact with them. How do you do that on this board and still enjoy the exchanges of other great guys? You use the ignore button.

Please don't let him irritate you to the point of curtailing your postings. I for one, and I think that there are many here, enjoy both your experiences, you sense of humor, and your patience with such as him on this board. I have personally enjoyed your input and have used it to benefit my family's shooting activity. One of these days I would like to meet you and do some shooting with you as well as exchange some shooting/hunting ideas.

Thanks again and keep up your input here.

Gentlemen, was it not experimentation that got us to this very point? That being said, there are valid limits to handloading, and new horizons to find. Personally, I have far too much sense to see a suggestion that worked, accept it as "truth" and do it. It calls on one's own thinking and reasoning, be it with "limits" of handloading or best way to mow the lawn. The fact of the matter is that seafire suggested these loads, they worked for him, and he WARNED against the dangers of their use. That being said, Hotcore, you obviously have a great deal of experience with the matter and you have taught me many things through your posts and I appreciate them. However, let's stop the mudslinging before Obama offers you a job. INDIVIDUALS are responsible for their own decisions, not members of accuratereloading.com who suggest new ideas.

To those that think that I should let this slide, I have to apologize...

We all agree Hot Core has a lot of experience to share...

I have no problem with him voicing an opinion against using these Light Loads with this powder...

Several other members think they are not a wise thing to do....

But only ONE person has accused and continues to accuse me of trying to kill someone... Yes I do take offense to it, especially when it is continual...

Its way beyond being a cheap shot.. to me and the people that chose to feel they have the experience, discipline and desire to try these loads, or have been using this load data...

He aggressively keeps making the statements that I am out to kill someone... so why should I keep trying to follow decorum and not say anything back...

We have few naythesayers on the subject, and a lot of people who use it and have used it ,with both satisfaction and thousands of rounds of safe shooting with it..

One guys voiced a minor mishap and one admitted to it being his mistake and he fortunately had a bad accident but thankfully wasn't hurt seriously...so that versus a whole bunch of shooters with no mishaps and thousands of safe shots down range, seem to be outweighed by that....

and folks are being told they are stupid, and they and I are going to get someone killed..

those aren't the type of ideas that these forums are to exchange...

if folks have serious concerns of using this load data, I prefer they not use it...I personally wouldn't use anything I have doubts about...

each year I disaseemble loads that I don't feel comfortable about...

but few members ( none other that I recall) have gone to the point of accusing anther forum member or members of being stupid and just waiting to kill someone else...

Its both ridiculous and highly uncalled for...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Since this person keeps wanting to advertise that I personally have a mission to kill someone with Blue Dot loads...

No, I've said it is fortunate that no one has been maimed or Killed - yet. It is just a matter of time though. And Red C. never did mention how badly he was physically hurt.

quote:

I'd like to point out the following post he made on the subject...

I at first was ready to give Seafire a hard time about "passing the plate". However, I think he has a valid point that shooting can be expensive, especially with some of the components I see folks championing. And goooood gosh, the true Big Bore(ing) folks with their shoulder cannons do shoot a "wad" of cash down range.

I enjoy a deal. And occasionally there are some excellent bargains out there. Roger is constantly bringing us info about excellent buys on Powder. And if you all have not tried the 0.224" 50gr & 55gr and 0.243" 80gr Rem PLHPs, you are in for a special treat both accuracy wise and billfold wise.

Now as far as "passing the plate", I'm still ready to PTL(a Charlotte based TV church rip-off)(pass the loot) for a Blue Dot Load Manual. Doesn't need to be Leather Bound and doesn't need to be fancy. I'll even pay for one with Roger's finger prints all over it.

So, quit whinning and get to printing if you want me to PTL.

That is true. At one time I thought the Blue Dot Loads were providing nice Safe Down-Loads. However, seafire has chosen not to include my comments on seeing Erratic Pressure Indications and why I decided to Stop using Blue Dot Down-Loads. If anyone wants arepeat, PM me.

quote:

personally I think the guy is jealous that the attention this work has gotten and the amount of appreciation sent to me and not his way, since he views himself as the forums self appointed reloading authority and guru.... that he now feels that he has to tell everyone that someone is going to kill someone else, so he can be the center of attention again....

And wrong again. I rarely bother to post since we have so many excellent Reloaders on-board now. I just post from first-hand experience and about things that can get the Beginners into Safety problems.

quote:

personally, I am tired of the slander.. and the accusations...

No slander at all, just the truth. seafire has been told by the people that make Blue Dot not to use it in these Down-Loads, people that actually understand Internal Ballistics have told him not to continue preaching about it, Dr. Oehler has provided an excellent example of how the Pressure can easily double due to Powder Positioning, and I've explained the Erratic Pressure Indications that Iexperienced. No, it is not slander to tell the truth.

quote:

One member had a mishap,

That is not true - a total and complete lie. The first incident was in a thread that seafire started himself.

We know of two incidents which I have provided links to, and will continue to provide links to as long as necessary. One by 338vt, one by Red C and those are just the ones " I " know about.

quote:

and that member admitted to being distracted that could happen to anyone...

Yes, Red C. "believes" he "might have" dropped a Double Charge. seafire was warned about this long l-o-n-g ago by another reloader with vast experience. Any Load that can be Double Charged is simply a Ka-Boom ready to happen.

But, the real problem is - some of us do not agree that it was a Double Charge. Red C's Ka-Boom has all the indications of a classic Detonation(Pressure Excursion, Secondary Explosion Effect). This gets back to Dr.Oehler's example. For those of you who actually understand Internal Ballistics, I'm sure you understand.

For those of you who do not understand, it would benefit you greatly to find out about Detonations(Pressure Excursions, Secondary Explosion Effects). They are documented in old NRA writings as well as PO Ackley's two volume Handbook For Shooters/Reloaders.

quote:

but the point remains, it was not a fault of the powder or the load data, it was the mistake made at the reload bench.. which can happen with a lot of different powders to ANY handloader out there...

Smoke and mirrors trying to cover-up the obvious problem. Maybe it was a Double Charge - therefore the Load is bad. Maybe it wasn't a Double Charge - which makes it even worse, because a person can do the loading per seafire, without a Double Charge, and still get the Ka-Boom.

quote:

but one guys seems to be on a self apppointed mission to make accusations that allow him to be the center of attention, and act like he is some sort of authority on it...

Obviously someone needs to explain how a "Board" works to seafire in addition to Internal Ballistics.

This Board has never operated under the premise that everyone "must agree" with every other person's post. There are Boards that do operate that way - this fortunately is not one of them. If I wanted to be the "Center of Attention", I'd start a thread about the subject - who did that?

quote:

he makes accusations that no loads were pressure tested.. so they are therefore unsafe....

That is FINALLY a true statement.

quote:

well he has also not offered any pressure testing proof to show that those loads are overpressure specs either...so its a two way street...

And still WRONG. I've outlined more than once about how I saw Erratic Pressure with Blue Dot

quote:

But I will highly recommend that anyone who wants to use ANY Blue Dot loads, to read his posts as well, so that they can make an educated decision on their own....

This is the best statement he has made yet. But I can save you a lot of time and searching by simply recommending you stick with Factory Tested Loads, which are shown in the Manuals.

quote:

...Me and enough forum members feel he is a pompous ass,

There is a classic example of Slander. I understand why seafire resorts to this -pitiful.

quote:

enough is enough..

Boards are set up to discuss topics, not everyone has to agree with everyone else.

If you do not like what I post, tough clinton and on you.
-----

Hey slow, I'd suggest you get a 3rd grader to explain the difference between Liable and Slander to you.

If anyone is "Liable", it is seafire for handing out dreamed-up, guessed-at, untested Loads which have resulted in two Pressure Incidents.

quote:

There is a classic example of Slander. I understand why seafire resorts to this -pitiful.

It's not slander when it is the truth.....troll!

Might I be so bold as to call for a truce at this time, folks!

Something to think about - I notice that powders are sold by weight and since Trial Boss is a very bulky powder, it might be a safer light load powder? Has anyone tried it? It is listed by Hodgdon as a cast bullet rifle load - I forget which caliber, 38-55 Win maybe. I was reading the manufacturers comments on it and they say is was designed for action cowboy type loads and is useful for cast rifle loads. Just a thought. Hey, I know how much fun reduced loads can be! Been there, done that! (Which should answer those who question why we want to do it - it's fun, that's why!)

Trail boss was developed to answer some of the problems that occur with shooting reduced loads using powders such as Blue-Dot. As factory tested and developed data is produced I wouldn't hesitate to use Trail Boss for Reduced loads.................................DJ

I hope they don't get too pissed off, because they are both great contributors to the forum, but both being opinionated and forthright, neither is likely to back down.

Clark,

I am geting to the opinion I could care less what his opinions are.....

if he thinks these loads are overpressuredised, why haven't we been offered any numbers?
comparing the pressure to a certain load...

until he has done that, his opinions are pure speculation on his part..

I know folks with a lot more technical credentials than his, that use some of that load data, and support it and think his opinions are strictly unfounded...

of course he can blow them off, but then both of us can just ignore the other guy...

he's out to save the planet, since he is evidently smarter than the rest of us....folks like that are a legend in their own minds.. and not much further than that...

Hey Seafire and Hot Core. You guys are amongst my favourite contributors, knowledgeable and friendly. In many ways you are so alike I thought you must know each other personally and be friends. Now I'm really disappointed to learn otherwise. Remember that this is meant to be fun and not an all consuming, blood pressure rising, hate filled forum (unlike the political section).

Just My Point Of View,but this thing is no longer why Blue Dot should or should not be used for reduced loads, It has become attack counter attack played out for the rest of the forums attention.

Now if I,m missing the point why don,t the TWO combatants start PMing? roger

I have read these posts with some interest. I completely agree with those who have stated how valuable the knowledge and info from both of these posters has been/is.

I have used a few of Seafires Blue Dot loads, with extreme caution, and I even interprelated a load for 270 WSM based on loads Seafire had posted for 270 Win. I even PM'd Seafire IIRC.
Very helpful.

I used and had success with all of these loads, and intended to use them again, specifically when firelapping a barrel, and looking for lower velocity loads--UNTIL--

While using the middle range of a Blue Dot load Seafire developed for 270 Win, NOT WSM, I experienced wide variations in pressure and velocity. Specifically, I had 3 (of 12) loads give extremely HIGH velocity compared to the estimates, and velocity of the other rounds. These rounds were made with meticulous care, and weighed at completion as well as each load hand weighed as each case was charged, and then bullet seated immediately. I KNOW beyond any reasonable doubt, that these loads were charged identically, and I SAW wide pressure variance indications.

This also happened with 308 Win for me. I stopped using reduced loads with Blue Dot immediately. I won't go there again, until I learn more, or perhaps am convinced that with a filler or something, the risk of a boo-boo is minimized.

I think this all fallls under the 'go at your own risk' type mentality, which without any specificity of recollection how/when/where-- I feel Seafire admonished strongly, and therefore, and frankly just in general cause I think he is one of the good guys, I harbor no negativity towards anything Seafire has listed, but rather the contrary, feel he has helped me learn, and I DO think my results could just be an anamoly for me, but it spooked me, that I can say.

Also, based on my experience, I can say I understand why Hot Core says some of what he does. Seafire, just hit your internal ignore button--or the one AR provides, and keep posting for all of our benefit. HC, same to you--I don't for a second think HC really thinks Seafire is 'trying to kill somebody' and neither does anybody with any sense who frequents these forums.

Thanks to both of you guys for your contributions, keep them coming--PLEASE!

quote:

Hey Seafire and Hot Core. You guys are amongst my favourite contributors, knowledgeable and friendly.

quote:

I completely agree with those who have stated how valuable the knowledge and info from both of these posters has been/is.

Exactly!

quote:

Now if I,m missing the point why don,t the TWO combatants start PMing?

NO! NO! NO! We don't want them to be combatants!

You gentlemen are right...

I will just put the guy on ignore...

I will also recommend that anyone that requests load data from me, to read Hot Core's points on it so they can make up their own minds on the subject, as to follow his advise or my advice boils down to their own personal responsibility.... and loads outside of factory published data, is not for rookies, and shouldn't have to be explained, as it is that obvious..

I have done all the Blue Dot Load development that I plan on doing.. I am working on loads for the 7 Mag at the request of a batch of guys... but if I complete that, it will only be available on a PM request basis.. I will not post it on the forum...

all of this is time consuming, but I have done work and have had plans to expand it for quite a while, of doing the same work utilizing SR 4759....

My naythesayers should be happier, as their is load data that is pressure tested with this powder from the old IMR Brown Sheets where they listed each cartridge, with a variety of bullet weights, and then listed max loads for every powder they made from SR 4759 up thru 4831 snd 7828 ( if appropriate..)...

Particularly with components getting hard to get, and not knowing what the future will bring, I have a mission for myself, that I am happy to share with others, on how to stretch shooting dollars out...

this is done on researching hands on, how to produce adequate loads, with a lot of calibers that will do the job, but maintain economy on the use of powder...

at the same time I am doing research on how to stretch out the brass life, of brass that is getting both expensive and hard to come by for all of us...

right now I am working on 223 brass of Rem manufacture, that I have reloaded 50 times so far, with only ONE casualty to a neck split..

I am more than happy to share with my fellow forum members, so they can avoid the time and expense I rack up doing this stuff.... but to get flamed and criticised for it... and then told I am going to kill someone....
well that takes away the motivation to share it with anyone, or even opening my mouth...

but everything I share with forum members is hands on experience, or noting patterns that are applicable to likewise sized cases...something that is done in the industry.... example Lee Load Manuals, where they make estimates on loads from cartridges of similar sized cases.. like 303 Savage loads are extrapolated from 30/30 loads and reduced 10 %...

I'll do my best just to keep this down to a dull roar, and keep the guy on ignore... but I would like to point out, anything I have said has been on the defense, not on the offense.....

H/C can't say the same thing...

quote:

But, the real problem is - some of us do not agree that it was a Double Charge. Red C's Ka-Boom has all the indications of a classic Detonation(Pressure Excursion, Secondary Explosion Effect). This gets back to Dr.Oehler's example. For those of you who actually understand Internal Ballistics, I'm sure you understand.

Hotbore.....You seem rather intrigued with your own intelligence....
For your information; there has NEVER been a
proven, documented, case of detonation. Nor have the finest ballisticians EVER been able to observe the fabled SEE.....
And Dr. Oehler never had to endanger himself fighting to win all the gold with a potentially fatal charge of 2.7 grains of Bullseye in the cavernous .38 Special case.....
Why don't you just retreat into your den of paranoia; Whoops! I meant your reloading room, and let us Blue Dot afficianados go blow ourselves up in peace....... Grant.

It saddens me that good folks have become 'inflamed' over this issue! But hey you folks - this is all supposed to be fun! Let's not rub salt etc. I have 'hinted' at being in favour of 'caution' with regards to this type of load , I know. Might I ask that someone - like our esteemed seafire2 - test and develop loads that are more - how shall I say - 'foolproof'? I'm hoping that the relatively new Trail Boss would work but perhaps SR 4759 will be the ticket. But please do not put my mentor on ignore! Seriously!

303 G:

I am not advocating that ANYONE put H/C on ignore...

Nor am I advocating this is a he vs me scenario...

I sincerely hope I do not influence ANY forum member to think negatively of H/C...

My posts here have been defensive, on his personal attacks on me...

While it may be a cold day in hell before I'll ever forgive this crap of me killing or being responsible for killing someone....

the last thing I want ANYONE to do is to take sides on this based on whether they are my friend or his.....

both he and I have folks who like what we have to say, and folks who think negatively of what each of us have to say....

This is not a popularity contest...

I'd prefer he'd just quit bashing anything I have to say on these loads, just for the sake of giving his highly inflammatory opinion... with the attitude, if I don't like it, I can shove it...

I have the guy on ignore, and will keep him on ignore.. I won't change my opinion of him either.. but I sincerely hope not to come across as trying to influence people to dislike Glenn or his work...

His posts should be taken with the same open mind as anyone would have of anyone else's posts...take what benefits you, and leave what doesn't...

I'm not calling him a nut, or telling others he doesn't know what he is talking about because it doesn't correspond with my thoughts on a subject.... he can make the same statement...

I feel no victory here, and I am sure in his mind, he does....

but I am not going to be pissed on, when I think it is about 90% ego based and about 10% BASED on what he speculates.....

if he has real concerns, then he would back them up with numbers instead of conjectures...

and as far as loads... Trail Boss is only ever going to give you about 1200 fps MV tops... that is what it is designed to do... push anything at 22 LR velocities...

SR 4759 also can duplicate close to what Blue Dot can come up with for velocity... and as accurate as it can be, It has consistently been beaten with tighter groups from Blue Dot in my almost all of my rifle loads.. the only exception being the 30/30...

a long time ago though, my long range intentions were loads with Blue Dot, SR 4759 and both 4198s for reduced loads as that is where I saw the most predictable consistencies..

consider the time, effort and expense I have spent doing the Blue Dot loads and then the amout of flamings I have endured by a few vocal folks, it makes on wonder why bother doing all the work with the other powders....

I have had folks ask for Blue Dot loads all over the USA and Canada, some from South America and Africa, and a lot from Europe, Australia and New Zealand, with very few complaints except what he been posted on this forum by a few folks...

it has had good success rates, great results and a lot of people emailing and PMing me with thank yous... that has made it worth while...

but the level of flames by a very few people have erased the feelings of hundreds of thank yous.. especially to the insults I have listed to from H/C...

so no, he is on ignore.... I won't support what he writes period, even when I agree with it 100 %.. unlike H/C if I don't like something, I have the good graces to keep my mouth shut instead of trying to flame the guy into ashes, as he choses to do, thinking he accomplishes something positive...

my apologies, but he has deluted my attitude to doing further work with other powders, to share with other folks here...

what do I need to hear.. H/C telling everyone I can get them killed using Blue Dot, SR 4759, H 4198, IMR 4198, 2400, H 110, H 4227 and IMR 4227???

I don't think so...I consider the guy a self centered pompous jealous a-hole...and shame on me for having to say it.. I lowered myself more than I want to, by even saying it..

quote:

Originally posted by Oldmodel70:
...Hotbore.....Why don't you just ...... Grant.

you and your rag M70s.

I strongly ENCOURAGE "you" to use seafires dreamed-up, guessed-at, doesn't have a clue about Internal Ballistic Pressure, Blue Dot Loads. Be sure to let your children have box fulls of them too.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
...if he thinks these loads are overpressuredised, why haven't we been offered any numbers?..

This is about as ignorant as the people "using" the seafire, just a matter of time, man-killer Blue Dot Loads.

How much pressure did it take to lock up 338vt's rifle enough that it had to be hammered open by a GunSmith? Any reasonable person would understand it was way over SAAMI MAX!

How much pressure did it take to completely blow to smitherenes Red C's Weatherby which nearly got seafire his "First" casualty? AMAZING that there are still fools who don't understand this was way w-a-y over SAAMI MAX!! It dosen't matter if it was a Double Charge or a Detonation due to Powder Position, it happened due to seafir's ego. Red C sure understands now and he won't be using them again. Imagine that!
-----

The real question shoud be for all the totally and completely ignorant jerks using the seafire ego-driven potential man-killing Blue Dot Loads is - "Would either of the above Pressure Excursions have happened if seafire's ego and overwhelming self absorption for having people think he is the Guru of Blue Dot had been held in check, and if they had been using Factory Tested Reduced Loads?" No. Just that simple - no.

quote:

seafire blathering:
While it may be a cold day in hell before I'll ever forgive this crap of me killing or being responsible for killing someone....

Just checked - I could not care less.

It is obviously just a matter of time(to quote another person who knows seafire is wrong) before someone is maimed or Killed due to his ignorance. For those of you who it might happen to - seafire being held Liable for all the damage, hospital bills, attorney fees, burial costs, and loss of revenue - is appropriate. It will not be difficult to locate expert witnesses to testify on your behalf. But don't ask me, just print out all the Warnings from here and other Boards.

quote:

more blather:
I'd prefer he'd just quit bashing anything I have to say on these loads, just for the sake of giving his highly inflammatory opinion... with the attitude, if I don't like it, I can shove it...

The chances of that happening are about the same as me voting for a Democrat - ZERO, Nada, zilch, it ain't gonna happen.

Of course, seafire has the opportunity to get it all stopped, but his out-of-control ego just won't let him - even if it means ignorant people might be maimed of Killed. So.... I do agree, seafire can shove all his fine advice right up his clinton.

quote:

more stupidity that shows a complete lack of understanding about Pressure:
if he has real concerns, then he would back them up with numbers instead of conjectures...

Don't need numbers, just take a look at the results of a seafire ego-driven potential man-killer, guessed-at, dreamed-up without any concept of Internal Ballistic Pressure Blue Dot Load. I'll go out on a limb and suggest the Pressure was too high - way above SAAMI MAX.

And no, Red C is not responsible - even if it was a Double Load, which I doubt it was - seafire is Liable and should be reimbursing Red C and 338vt for all their associated costs and hospital bills. Perhaps when he has to pay for a funeral he will finally get his out of control ego in check.

quote:

out of control ego crying for pity:
consider the time, effort and expense I have spent doing the Blue Dot loads and then the amout of flamings I have endured by a few vocal folks, it makes on wonder why bother doing all the work with the other powders....

Poor pooooooor baby

By the way, he mentioned "I have endured by a few vocal folks". For those of you too stupid to understand that pathetic whining, there are people on other Boards who are also trying to WARN folks about seafires out-of-control ego, with the I don't care who gets maimed or killed as long as I can fool a few idiots into thinking I am the Guru of Blue Dot attitude. Perhaps seafire would send you all a shoe of his that you could Kiss and return to him.

quote:

Awww, I think he dislikes me:
...I consider the guy a self centered pompous jealous a-hole...and shame on me for having to say it.. I lowered myself more than I want to, by even saying it..

Yes indeed, if you happen to "disagree" with seafire's ego-driven "I'm the Guru of Blue Dot regardless how may firearms get Ka-Boomed", he tends to dislike you. Just can't stand it when ANYONE points out he is totally WRONG. Another sign of the out-of-control ego, that he despises anyone who challanges his ignorance.

But he does his best to try and remain "aloft" in the stratosphere - next to his ego - when he posts.

quote:

duping folks around the world:
I have had folks ask for Blue Dot loads all over the USA and Canada, some from South America and Africa, and a lot from Europe, Australia and New Zealand, with very few complaints

Perhaps some day we will see seafire's name right beside old ben ladin as a whacko terrorist spreading self destruction. Maybe not.

I'll guess the only way seafire's ego will stop the complete and total ignorance, is when one of his family gets maimed or killed due to his stupidity. But as always, I do hope no one, anywhere else gets hurt due to seafire's ego - even the mentally challenged M70 fans. On second thought if ben ladin and a bunch of Democrats follow seafire's ego driven WRONG advice and get Ka-Boomed, I doubt it would bother me.
-----

That should be enough to stoke the flames of ignorance for today.

By the way, I've been grinding around a Bubba and Bubbette Blue Dot Ka-Boom story. They end up in court, wrapped in bandages, with pieces of their Ka-Boomed Lead Sled, imagine that. If you all want to hear it, let me know. But it will take awhile to get it all sorted out.

Thank you for the above post...

That is all really anyone needs, to see that you either have a brain tumor or you are in dramatic needs for meds to control your anger and paranoia and schizofrenia ( or however it is spelled)...

now you are wishing ill harm on other forum members and their children, if they don't follow your every word...

you need meds...

the world needs you in a straight jacket....

and forum managment needs to look at someone, anyone who is threatening or wishing ill will to other forum members...

and you talk about ego?

I don't demand anyone use any loads I share with forum members...

but you demand everyone listens to every word you say...

if they don't now you threaten them or wish them and their children are hurt....

I am just sorry for your kids if you have any... must be like having Adolf Hitler for a dad...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
..now you are wishing ill harm on other forum members and their children, ...and forum managment needs to look at someone, anyone who is threatening or wishing ill will to other forum members.....if they don't now you threaten them or wish them and their children are hurt....

Hard to believe seafire gets stupider with each post.

How does my recommending - seafire's guessed-at, dreamed-up, don't have a clue about Internal Ballistics Loads, to a bunch of idiot Democrats makes it wishing ill harm on other forum members????

But, apparently seafire believes it is OK to continue his incessant preaching that since he is the Guru-of-Blue Dot(Guob), everything will be OK by using his guessed-at, dreamed-up, don'[t have a clue about Internal Ballistics Loads????

How is it different??? Now he wants to condem me for recommending his Loads, but it is OK if he does???

Yes indeed, his Ballistically challenged mind shows his (continued lack of) intelligence with each post. I feel sure it makes all the dupees feel good about the GuoB's Blue Dot loads they are shooting.
-----

I don't "tell" the people that run this Board "how" they should run it. Any pompous self-rightous jerk that does is simply showing his complete stupidity - ta daa - seafire Guob.

Hey Mark....isn't about time to lock this thread up? It's getting personal....

quote:

I strongly ENCOURAGE "you" to use seafires dreamed-up, guessed-at, doesn't have a clue about Internal Ballistic Pressure, Blue Dot Loads. Be sure to let your children have box fulls of them too.

303guy, this fellow is your friend and mentor?!!!
Sorry, I don't get it.
Peter.

Look Hot Core, accusing a forum member of trying to kill someone including children is one thing but accusing them of being like a DEMOCRAT is just going TOO FAR!!!

It's time for this foolishness to end!..........dj

Guys,

I am done with it...

H/C's last couple of posts don't need to be defended against, and they pretty much speak for themselves...

He hasn't painted a good picture of himself here...

That doesn't matter at this point.. as Best Put by Roger Bartsche.. both points of view are overly well known...

Hopefully Mark or Saeed will close this thread at this point...

I wish to report that as of this date No-one has been injured by use of Seafire's Blue Dot data.
A number of coyotes and a few badgers, however, were harmed to a terminal point during the field testing portion of this experiment!

Seafire,
I am glad that asshole decided to bother you for awhile instead of me. Oops, probably back to me again.

Rich
Buff Killer
Blue Dot User

i have looked at seafires blue dot loads.
i do use a ton of reduced loads but not with blue dot.
if like me you choose not to use them do so.
if you wanna use them there they are.
there are other powders you can use,like steel yes the steel shot powder,hs-6 and 7.
4759 etc..
and his data is usefull,just like the red dot,4985, and unique loads out there.

Hot Bore.... You're pretty handy with the Graemlins. And we know you don't like pre-64 70s. But that was not the topic of this thread.
Why don't you furnish proof of the fairy-tale Kabooms occuring while utilizing mid-range loads of Blue Dot......Or why don't you just shut the f**k up.......
Your incessant babbling about hammering bolts open, or observing Secondary Explosion Effects, or your almost orgiastic obsession with seafire; only displays your ability to add pages to a forum thread.....And reveals your intense longing for even the smallest iota of attention......
Me, I'll just muddle along and blow a few more floorplates offn' my old model 70s, with my too hot Blue Dot loads....... But Jim Wisner has lots of new replacement ones......So I'll be alright.......... Grant.

Lads, Lads.


Calm down you lot you're worse than scousers!

Scousers

Regards,

GH

If it's not seafire2 it's me or a couple others. Hot Core is Hot Core, his posts pretty much read the same. He is a legend in his own mind and anyone who poses a different perspective to his is subject to his usual anal attacks. Since it is almost impossible to get banned from this site we must put up with his verbal attacks and ridicule. It is probably best to just ignore him most of the time.

I would still like to have coffee and donuts with him and then go shooting. It would be really interesting if he could demonstrate what he says he does. if he can then fine and if he can't....well I always have fun shooting anyways.

Larry Gibson

Seafire2:

From the above posts with the exception of Hot Sh#t's, I have him on ignore, it sounds like he's continuing to rag on you lad. Never mind. 95% of those on the board don't pay any attention to him and I guess that causes the ole boy to lose it once in a while. He may have a mental disorder of some type that would explain his erratic behavior, but alas, I'm no shrink.

Just do like millions are doing and leave the ole boy on ignore, there is just too much good stuff being offered by many of the lads on this forum including yourself, to let one such as him bug you.

quote:

I would still like to have coffee and donuts with him and then go shooting.

Good on ya, Larry Gibson! (As we say down under).

Hey guys, seriously! We are all human and we all have our ways. I still stand by Hot Core. He has always been kind and helpful to me! I have learned a lot from his posts. [I]You folks have given me a whole lot of insight too![/I]. Hot Core once pulled me up for sitting on the fence - well, I am not sitting on the fence now! I am just saying that we are all human and we all have our own ways! Me included. Hell, I am in no place to judge anyone! I have said this to seafire2 and he understands where I am coming from and accepts me for who I am. (Needles to say, I hold him in high esteem!)
Do you folks realise how much value you all add to this (and perhaps other) forums?

So, have a beer on me! (Well, with me anyway!)

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

So, have a beer on me! ( :beer

I did and you now have a bar tab at the "OUT BACK"in Arcadia CA to take care of. roger