As for lee dies not standing up to use Ihave a set of 9mm that have well over 10000 rounds through them a set of 40 S@W that have around 6000 rounds through them and they are both going strong.

One of the best things about lee dies ins the sliding decapping pin. Over the last 45 plus years of loading I don't know how many RCBS and lyman pins I broke lots. Haven't broken a lee yet pushed them up a few times. Its great just to knock them back down and start loading again.

If if one was to wear them out in half the time of others types. which I dought The price is so reasonable you can buy 2 or 3 dies sets for the same money as one of the others.

I see people asking 25 dollars or so for used RCBS's ect I just laugh when one can buy new lees for a lot less. The Lee RGB dies for 12 bucks or so in the most common cailbers are really a great buy.

All of you who don't buy lees dies can spend your money the way you like I prefer to buy more bullets and powder with mine and then stuff the extra I have into cases with lee dies.

Concerning dies wearing out...the only dies I have EVER worn out were a couple of CARBIDE sizers in 44 Mag and 45 Colt. I leave it up to your imagination to estimate how many rounds it took to wear out carbide! BTW one was Lyman and the other was RCBS.

Yes, the Lee plastic primer tool is cheap and not very durable. I don't use it, nor do I use any current-production priming tool including either of the 2 from the famous but now inferior RCBS. IMO the current ones all pretty well suck, I use an older steel RCBS hand tool with no primer reservoir. Slower but better IMO. I also use a Lyman nutcracker tong priming tool sometimes.

Re the Lee dies themselves, I personally have had no problems but I always try to remember what Ed Shulin told us about being smarter than the machine. A ham-fisted approach can ruin even a good tool.
Regards, Joe

"When it takes two wrenches to tighten up the spindle to make the dies work...then I have a problem with the dies.....

Ah. I see. So it takes TWO wrenches! And we are to agree the problem is in the dies?

"Hornady dies (at least used to be) the same way...."

Hornady did recognise the advantages of Lee's decap rod holder system and copied it after patent rights expired. Yes, some people had trouble with it (two wrenches?) so they reverted back to using a threaded rod. I still don't see the problem as one with the die itself though. (I'm 69 and have used wrenches since I was about 6, many bolts reqire two wrenches at once. Maybe it's an old guy thing!? ) But, I still don't see any justification to saying Lee dies aren't suitable for large volume users, nor any justification to loudly proclaim they "suck".

I don't see relivance to how Lee's collet type crimpers, case trimmers or prime tools apply to the origianl issue of dies. How the fingers of a Lee rifle crimp die could possibly get "peened" from proper use escapes me. What did the owner hit them with?

No one would suggest THOSE tools are sufficently durable for large volume loaders nor are they intended to be. It's no secret that Lee AIMS at the new or low volume loader. They hit that target precisely and no one should argue otherwise. But the question is dies. None of that stuff has reliavance on the quality - function - or the duriablity of Lee's DIES. Not unless someone equates shiney external finishes and really neat knurling as "quality" and how long the die will function.

It seems silly, to me anyway, to suppose a shiney die automatically makes better ammo or lasts longer than a flat finish die. After all, it's the insides that do the work and Lee's are as good as anyone's. Really doubt any of the ammo factories externally shine or make pretty knurls on dies for use on their production lines. And I bet they last a LOoONG time too! Or not?

If we measure the "quality" of any die brand by the fact that someone once got a case stuck in it, I suspect no die maker is any good. In my experiece, no case WILL get stuck in ANY brand of die IF I LUBE IT properly! So, that issue seems to come back to understandng how to operate and use simple mechanical devices that, in this instance, have no moving parts. Or not?

quote:

Ah. I see. So it takes TWO wrenches! And we are to agree the problem is in the dies?

you buy what you like.....I'll do the same.....I know where I can get dies that work right out of the box.....

Okay, but that's always true isn't it?

What I find interesting in all of this is that, once again, Lee has been slimed as "low quality, won't work right out of the box, good enough for low volume shooters", ect, without a single intelligent supporting FACT. And, again, I'll say Lee isn't my favorite brand but I use them in confidence. I make my purchase choices on features, not how shiney or pretty a die is, not on how much I had to pay to satisfy my ego. Sometimes that means Lee wins out.

My ONLY criteria for "quality" is how accurate ammo can be made on it. On average (individual exceptons exist in all brands, extra good and extra mediocare, but none I've seen are really bad). Somewhat to my surprise, I've found Lee to be as good as any others except Forster & Reddings BR/Comp dies, and they aren't a LOT better. That's from using a concintricity gage as well as range tests, not a squishy personal "feeling" based on looks.

Anyone wanting to honestly "prove" any average quality difference between Hornady and Lyman and RCBS and Lee dies by the quality of the ammo made on them is going to have difficuly.

Pay whatever it takes to make you feel good about yourself but don't say other brands "suck"; that's not true and it IS dishonest!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
Not unless someone equates shiney external finishes and really neat knurling as "quality" and how long the die will function.

It seems silly, to me anyway, to suppose a shiney die automatically makes better ammo or lasts longer than a flat finish die. After all, it's the insides that do the work and Lee's are as good as anyone's. Really doubt any of the ammo factories externally shine or make pretty knurls on dies for use on their production lines. And I bet they last a LOoONG time too! Or not?

Here you are making the ASSumption that I was refering to the external finish of the dies - which I could mostly care less about. I was specifically refering to the internal finish i.e. the parts that touch the case and bullet of some of their dies. Take a look at the finish on the interior of your collet dies and you'll see what I'm talking about. Also take a look inside the seater stem plug and see if yours are as rough as a couple of mine are. I'm talking about the parts of the tool that does the work NOT external finishing, YOU are making FALSE ASSumptions without trying to think about what people are really talking about.

I'll give credit where credit is due but I'll also be honest with everyone and when something Sucks I'll say so. Not being able to load a properly dimensioned round with a brand new set of dies SUCKS. That's exactly what happened with my set of LEE 7.62x54R dies. NOTE: I didn't say that ALL Lee dies won't load properly dimensioned ammo just THIS set.

BTW I do agree that the decapper design on Lee Rifle dies is useful. I have one in 223 that I use to decap and size some particularly hard crimped military rounds. And I also have a set of their pistol dies with I couldn't say how many thousands of rounds loaded.
I still don't like dies that don't have physical locks on thier settings though. I've replaced the lock ring on every Lee die I've ever used (which BTW SUCKS). Also I like to have seater stems that firmly lock into place. Watch the variance in OAL that can occur with dies that don't have locked down settings and eventually you'll figure out why you need them.


Oh and I received my RCBS 7.62x54R dies today. It came with the proper sized expander ball for 7.62x54R. It also had a 2nd expander ball in a plastic bag marked 30 cal., It mic'd out at .356! No kidding! ..........................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
It's no secret that Lee AIMS at the new or low volume loader. They hit that target precisely and no one should argue otherwise. ?

If it's "no secret" why are you argueing the opposite? You are trying to argue against me and saying exactly what I did...................................DJ

with well over 100 sets of dies of various brands, my favorites are older RCBS and redding. I'll gladly pay the price of new lee dies for used RCBS or Redding, and often do!
I load shells with Lee's and Hornady's, but just dont care for them, I cant give you a real reason, they just "feel" cheap, and I hate the rubber O ring nuts of the Lees.

quote:

I hate the rubber O ring nuts of the Lees.

Agreed. I tossed the o-ring nuts and went for the kind with the split and cross-screw. I think they are Redding or Hornady. I hate the ones that have the little setscrew that impinges directly on the threads...

Redding's have the set screw. They put a piece of lead shot between the screw and the threads. Not stable, just cheap. They claim they can't afford to make them properly. Funny that Hornady can. Even Lyman makes a good one; they just don't supply it with their dies. Now that doesn't make sense to me. It has to be cheaper to make one lock ring rather than two. RCBS used to make a split design, but they reverted. I wonder if Redding's accountants saw that as cause to retain the design?

I recall a physicist who speculated about the influence on the earth's orbit if we were all to throw our bubblegum at the wall in unison. Probably similar to everyone complaining to Redding about their lock ring's design.

"you are making the ASSumption that I was refering to the external finish of the dies - which I could mostly care less about. I was specifically refering to the internal finish i.e. the parts that touch the case and bullet of some of their dies."

True, you did not. I had to try to figure out what you meant since you offered NOTHING except your dissatisfacton that the expander in ONE die set was "wrong", at least for your version of a mixed diameter cartridge. The external finish is perhsps the most common complaint. Trying to make sense out ONE EXPANDER being responsible for a blanket thread title that "Lee Dies Suck" forced me to make some assumtions. I wonder if you have ever had to take advantage of the warrentee from any other brand of dies? Do they all suck, or just Lee?

"Take a look at the finish on the interior of your collet dies and you'll see what I'm talking about."

True but not valid. No part of the interior of a collet die touches the case anywhere except in the collet itself. All I've ever seen are quite smooth there.

" Also take a look inside the seater stem plug and see if yours are as rough as a couple of mine are. I'm talking about the parts of the tool that does the work NOT external finishing,"

Take a look at the inside of a seater plug of any die brand. Machining marks are common in all of them. In fact, I recently encouraged a loader from being disgusted with his RCBS seater for putting a "ring" mark on the ogive of his bullets as that's irrelivant. ??

"YOU are making FALSE ASSumptions without trying to think about what people are really talking about."

???

"I'll give credit where credit is due but I'll also be honest with everyone and when something Sucks I'll say so. Not being able to load a properly dimensioned round with a brand new set of dies SUCKS. That's exactly what happened with my set of LEE 7.62x54R dies."

I've delt with the two diameter isssue previously. NO maker can get both the neck diameter AND the expander correct with rifles that are made to varying standards.

"NOTE: I didn't say that ALL Lee dies won't load properly dimensioned ammo just THIS set.

"I also have a set of their pistol dies with I couldn't say how many thousands of rounds loaded."

And they are only good for low volume loaders?

"I still don't like dies that don't have physical locks on thier settings though. I've replaced the lock ring on every Lee die I've ever used (which BTW SUCKS)."

Now, when you say "I don't like ...", that's valid. But it's only an opinion, not a mechanical fact. I don't much care for the O ring locks either but they do work and a lot of people actually prefer them. Most lock rings suck in some way or another, IMHO, but doesn't affect the quality or usefulness of the dies.

"Also I like to have seater stems that firmly lock into place. Watch the variance in OAL that can occur with dies that don't have locked down settings and eventually you'll figure out why you need them."

Nice that you say again that you "like." I have watched. The floating seating cap does sometimes wiggle a little in use but I've found that the float is fully taken up under seating pressure, the OAL doesn't vary at all from that.

"If it's "no secret" why are you argueing the opposite? You are trying to argue against me and saying exactly what I did .....DJ"

Invalid. My acceptance that much of Lee's other equipment is made for the light user has no bearing on my defense of their dies. The dies are as good as any, no question about it. And, as a side issue, so are the Classic Cast/Classic turret presses.

"NOTE: I didn't say that ALL Lee dies won't load properly dimensioned ammo just THIS set."

Read your title. I see no room for any other "ASSumption."

IMO several folks are missing the point(s) about the lock rings. Here's my take on them:

Lyman and others used to supply a small lead shot in each lock ring, to avoid having the steel lock screw pinch the die's threads unequally and cause the die to tilt, or mar the die threads. Since the '50s this practice has stopped for most manufacturers. Repeated tests have shown that this practice is A Good Thing albeit not the best solution for obtaining the straightest ammo.

The clamp-type lock rings are also good but again not the best for the straightest ammo. Neither of these 2 systems allows the die(s) to float and thus be self-centering to a greater degree, so alignment sometimes is less than optimum.

Lee's rubber o-ring system allows enough float for the die(s) to somewhat self-correct for any slight tool/case misalignment, thus ensuring that any discrepancy would be minimized instead of magnified. Lee's rubber o-ring combined with their sliding bullet seater system combined with the CoAx press has repeatedly given the straightest handloaded ammo of any and all systems tried. We can sit here and argue all day but the results are clear.

Like the Madam said to the Bishop, "You pays your money and you takes your choice!"
Regards, Joe

J.D., good observations. Valid.

I've gone to the trouble of lathe turning the lock rings on all my dies ON THE DIE to make them truly square, and NONE of them were at first Truth is I have seen absolutely no change in the concentricity of my ammo!

It feels good to do that so I will continue. Sure doesn't hurt and someday it might help. A little. Like a lot of other things I do 'cause it feels good but can't be shown to help; primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring, neck turning (70%, +/-), hand seating primers, etc.

Those who feel it's "right" to lock dies down with pliers/wrench are making a mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

Those who feel it's "right" to lock dies down with pliers/wrench are making a mistake.

You are wrong. If you don't have your dies properly tightened they will work loose and you will get drift in the amount of sizing or seating length - I've had both happen. Of course figuring out out to get them tightened and concentric is another arguement. I've seen ammo that was set to headspace perfectly on the shoulder, with just a slight bolt pressure become too difficult to chamber because a loose die back off and didn't properly size the case.

A Co-Ax press does allow the die to float somewhat but the top adjustment is firmly set by the lock ring.

I have most of the different concentricity guages, Bersin, Sinclair, RCBS, Neco and have used the H&H version. Simply put the variance between individual dies is more than the variance in Concentricity between the die brands. Most of them will load concentric ammo if properly set up. All of them can produce dud dies from time to time but Reddings I think are less likely to do so, Forsters might be in the same category but I only have a half dozen or so of their die sets compared to dozens each of Redding and RCBS.

Most of the time most sets of dies can be set up to load reasonably concentric ammo i.e. less than .002 runout, but by the same token you can also adjust most sets of dies to NOT load ammo concentric you just have to be careful.

If you are happy with Lee dies and equipment more power to you. I just think their Lockrings and non locking settings Suck. But they do cost a less and fill an important niche in the lower end of reloading equipment. Argue all you want but they are the lower end (you said yourself that thats exactly their targeted market)......................................DJ


BTW my RCBS dies loaded ammo with half the runout that the Lee dies were able to - though part of the difference might have been in having to run a proper size expander through in an extra step when using the Lee's.......................................DJ

quote:

Lee's rubber o-ring system allows enough float for the die(s) to somewhat self-correct for any slight tool/case misalignment, thus ensuring that any discrepancy would be minimized instead of magnified. Lee's rubber o-ring combined with their sliding bullet seater system combined with the CoAx press has repeatedly given the straightest handloaded ammo of any and all systems tried. We can sit here and argue all day but the results are clear.

Please explain how the rubber O ring permits any extra float with the Co Ax press. Under seating force the top of the die ring is the load bearing surface.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Lee's rubber o-ring system allows enough float for the die(s) to somewhat self-correct for any slight tool/case misalignment, thus ensuring that any discrepancy would be minimized instead of magnified. Lee's rubber o-ring combined with their sliding bullet seater system combined with the CoAx press has repeatedly given the straightest handloaded ammo of any and all systems tried. We can sit here and argue all day but the results are clear.

Please explain how the rubber O ring permits any extra float with the Co Ax press. Under seating force the top of the die ring is the load bearing surface.

In that case you would have to rubber O ring on the die upside down.

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Lee's rubber o-ring system allows enough float for the die(s) to somewhat self-correct for any slight tool/case misalignment, thus ensuring that any discrepancy would be minimized instead of magnified. Lee's rubber o-ring combined with their sliding bullet seater system combined with the CoAx press has repeatedly given the straightest handloaded ammo of any and all systems tried. We can sit here and argue all day but the results are clear.

Please explain how the rubber O ring permits any extra float with the Co Ax press. Under seating force the top of the die ring is the load bearing surface.

In that case you would have to rubber O ring on the die upside down.

If the rubber o ring is on top it compresses until you get solid metal contact. If it is not fully compressed the seating depth can vary by the variation in compression of the o ring.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Lee's rubber o-ring system allows enough float for the die(s) to somewhat self-correct for any slight tool/case misalignment, thus ensuring that any discrepancy would be minimized instead of magnified. Lee's rubber o-ring combined with their sliding bullet seater system combined with the CoAx press has repeatedly given the straightest handloaded ammo of any and all systems tried. We can sit here and argue all day but the results are clear.

Please explain how the rubber O ring permits any extra float with the Co Ax press. Under seating force the top of the die ring is the load bearing surface.

In that case you would have to rubber O ring on the die upside down.

If the rubber o ring is on top it compresses until you get solid metal contact. If it is not fully compressed the seating depth can vary by the variation in compression of the o ring.

That depends on whether the neck tension requires more pressure to seat the bullet then what is required to compress the O ring. The smaller the caliber the less likely this is.

Joe

quote:

Simply put the variance between individual dies is more than the variance in Concentricity between the die brands.

That exactly duplicates my findings, thus I have no quarrel with the interior of Lee's dies. Unfortunately for me, I've really had too few Reddings to test for any valid basis for comment on them.

All makers at one time or another made knurled lock rings, not hex or with flats, because they DIDN"T want them locked down hard! I think it's only buyer demand that any of them make "wrench" rings now.

Since after maybe the first year I loaded (1965) all I've done is finger tight and have NEVER had a die wiggle out while loading, sizing or seating. ??

But, you touch on something I agree is MUCH more important than any tool; that's good technique. Brands of anything aside, a good hand loader cam make good ammo with almost any tools. An unskilled reloader can't make good ammo on anything! Better tools make things easier for anyone but they are no substitute for knowing what we're doing.

I wonder, have you found any (statistically sound) difference in concentricity as measured by the different gages?

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

I wonder, have you found any (statistically sound) difference in concentricity as measured by the different gages?

Other than the Bersin which can have a indicator that reads in tenths, I don't think there's a big difference in accuracy. The Neco is a little harder to use but will measure a couple things that the others won't. The Sinclair is smoother and that helps in use if not accuracy. The RCBS is the least expensive and measures case wall thickness and a couple other handy things.

Another thing I've noticed is that the expander ball is VASTLY more important a contributer to excess runout the the die itself and/or any lockrings.....................................................DJ

so, just to be clear, skl1 and dj were full of it when they whined about people taking "shots" at dj?

I have never had any problems with RCBS or Redding Forester products or Dillon for that matter .

I guess I'm lucky I started with RCBS and never looked back !.

I have had problems with the lack of perfection with everyone's products. The problems may have been small but they were still problems. However I have a lot more stuff and load a lot more than most, so statistically speaking I should have more problems. I also try out new tools, gadgets and dies out of curiosity and for the purpose of learning. I find a lot of good stuff that way and some not so good. I can find the bad in the good and the good in the bad.

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Lee's rubber o-ring system allows enough float for the die(s) to somewhat self-correct for any slight tool/case misalignment, thus ensuring that any discrepancy would be minimized instead of magnified. Lee's rubber o-ring combined with their sliding bullet seater system combined with the CoAx press has repeatedly given the straightest handloaded ammo of any and all systems tried. We can sit here and argue all day but the results are clear.

Please explain how the rubber O ring permits any extra float with the Co Ax press. Under seating force the top of the die ring is the load bearing surface.

In that case you would have to rubber O ring on the die upside down.

If the rubber o ring is on top it compresses until you get solid metal contact. If it is not fully compressed the seating depth can vary by the variation in compression of the o ring.

That depends on whether the neck tension requires more pressure to seat the bullet then what is required to compress the O ring. The smaller the caliber the less likely this is.

Joe

The shell holder is supposed to seat against the die. This takes all the play out of the system.

From the Lee site: Quote: Dead Length die adjustment

Make sure that you have the bullet seating die adjusted down so that the shell holder contacts the base of the die when the ram is raised to the top of its stroke. The Deluxe die set comes with the Dead length bullet seating die, which does not crimp the case, and is designed to be adjusted that way to eliminate clearance in the press for a more uniform bullet seating depth.

Jim

I load for 23 different calibers now and have yet to have problems other than my own mistakes !.

As far as components go I've worn out a few things but in 42 years of loading I would say that's

normal !. I wore out a RCBS 7mm RM set of dies and they sent me a brand new set NC 36 years after

I purchased them . At least I'll say they were worn out as I had a couple of problems arise

while loading , so sent them into have them checked . When they returned there was a note in

the box " From the Guys in the shop ; Thank You " !.

So I've returned that favor several times by purchasing more RCBS products !.

quote:

The shell holder is supposed to seat against the die. This takes all the play out of the system.

The preceeding discussion indicated that the rubber oring allowed some alignment of the Lee die. When bottomed out per the Lee directions for the "dead length" seater (does not apply to the standard crimp shoulder seater) any self aligning capability is lost.

some sound elitist concerning lee equipment.

i've reloaded and casted 40+ years with lyman, rcbs, dillon and lee equipment...all to produce quality product regardless of hardware cost. for instance, i consider lee's hand priming tool to be the best, period! better than hornady's or rcbs's, with the best ergonomics, leverage and feel...least expensive, too! yeah, you can wear one out, but they don't cost much to start with and a little lube keeps them running for a long while.

lee's equipment impresses me with design, engineering and quality...at prices less than half that of the "big boys" stuff. i won't abandon a good rcbs or lyman bullet mold or reloading die set or sell my dillon press, but my lee turret press, reloading dies, 6-cavity molds and bullet sizers are permanent. my rcbs bullet luber-sizer with extra sizing dies/top punches is sitting idle because lee's liquid alox and push-thru sizers are superior.

sometimes, inexpensive doesn't mean cheap!

budman

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

I've had more trouble with RCBS than ANY other brand, period, end of discussion.

Redding IMO makes possibly the best dies but the worst die boxes.

Lee dies do indeed have a few issues but in general I find them to be the best buy, by far. The quality is adequate and the design is innovative and far more precise and accurate than any other 7/8x14 die set I've seen.

Lee is always my first choice these days, RCBS is always my last choice. JMOFWIW.
Regards, Joe

Found the same. I have a lot of Hornady dies, but keep upgrading to Redding. Hate the boxes. though

quote:

Originally posted by budman461:
some sound elitist concerning lee equipment.

i've reloaded and casted 40+ years with lyman, rcbs, dillon and lee equipment...all to produce quality product regardless of hardware cost. for instance, i consider lee's hand priming tool to be the best, period! better than hornady's or rcbs's, with the best ergonomics, leverage and feel...least expensive, too! yeah, you can wear one out, but they don't cost much to start with and a little lube keeps them running for a long while.

lee's equipment impresses me with design, engineering and quality...at prices less than half that of the "big boys" stuff. i won't abandon a good rcbs or lyman bullet mold or reloading die set or sell my dillon press, but my lee turret press, reloading dies, 6-cavity molds and bullet sizers are permanent. my rcbs bullet luber-sizer with extra sizing dies/top punches is sitting idle because lee's liquid alox and push-thru sizers are superior.

sometimes, inexpensive doesn't mean cheap!

budman

Well excuse us for a opinion and or almost blowing our selves up with there POS plastic equipment.

"well excuse us for a opinion and or almost blowing our selves up with there POS plastic equipment."

all are entitled to their own opinions, even guys who use and like lee products.

my appreciation is as much driven by design and engineering (dillon pays royalties to lee for their powder measure design) as by cost.

investigating any change in the effort/force needed to perform an operation avoids troubles; i don't know of any reloading equipment that is likely to "blow ourselves up" when used properly...

the lee products i use do their job...i use information available up on various casting and reloading forums to tweak performance, but even out of the box, lee delivers.

budman

quote:

dillon pays royalties to lee for their powder measure design

Dillon is not the only one.....but that don't mean squat as to quality or excellence of design.

Lee's patent is for (such things as) "case activated"...meaning if there is a case in the station then something happens.....

In some cases the patent is for case mouth activation.....meaning the (in some cases) if there is a case mouth in a station then the powder drops.....meaning the powder drop hits the case mouth on the stroke of the press and the presence of the case activates the dropping of the powder,.......nice but this don't mean anything more.....

The fact that Dillon (and Hornady) pays royalties to Lee don't mean that lee's patents are good....the patients are quite generic!

quote:

Originally posted by budman461:
"well excuse us for a opinion and or almost blowing our selves up with there POS plastic equipment."

all are entitled to their own opinions, even guys who use and like lee products.

my appreciation is as much driven by design and engineering (dillon pays royalties to lee for their powder measure design) as by cost.

investigating any change in the effort/force needed to perform an operation avoids troubles; i don't know of any reloading equipment that is likely to "blow ourselves up" when used properly...

the lee products i use do their job...i use information available up on various casting and reloading forums to tweak performance, but even out of the box, lee delivers.

budman

Very true, back when I first started reloading(still have some it it) I got the Lee 75th anniversary reloading kit. I found most of the equipment cheaply made. That was no big deal for me. But I did come to find that the powder scale wouldn't hold a zero. So I ended up looking up on the lee page and what not to make sure I was doing it all right. Just didn't keep the zero so when I would measure my powder out I ended up with different measurements every time.
As for the rest of the kit was alright.
Sense then Lee has had a sour rep with me and have yet to buy anymore sense then.
In using there die sets I found they are prone to bending case necks when seating bullets. From reading on this site I find I m not the only one with such issues with there dies.
Just my experiences and opinions, I m not trying to piss anyone off.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

dillon pays royalties to lee for their powder measure design

Dillon is not the only one.....but that don't mean squat as to quality or excellence of design.

Lee's patent is for (such things as) "case activated"...meaning if there is a case in the station then something happens.....

In some cases the patent is for case mouth activation.....meaning the (in some cases) if there is a case mouth in a station then the powder drops.....meaning the powder drop hits the case mouth on the stroke of the press and the presence of the case activates the dropping of the powder,.......nice but this don't mean anything more.....

The fact that Dillon (and Hornady) pays royalties to Lee don't mean that lee's patents are good....the patients are quite generic!

So in stating that. - There could be a few peaces that are lined up similar in a fashion, and because of that they have to pay royalties? Or did I read too deeply into that?

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
...I got the Lee 75th anniversary reloading kit.

James, is that the 50th Anniversary Kit including coupons redeemable in the future for yet-to-be-developed equipment?

You have to be tough to stand up to the Lee supporters. Unlike yourself, you're dealing with people who would rather be blown up contending that price is the appropriate determinant than admit to what the stuff is.

quote:

So in stating that. - There could be a few peaces that are lined up similar in a fashion, and because of that they have to pay royalties? Or did I read too deeply into that?

This means that if I (or anyone) has a patent on (for example) case mouth activation.....you may not produce a reloading machine that keys a mechanical function by locating on the case mouth.

Or if I was really lucky and got a patient on a case activation.....such as a device that contacts a case in the station and then drops a primer to seat but if no case is present it doesn't drop a primer.

A lot of progressive presses have such devices.....and may well pay royalties to another company to use the "idea"

I don't care how they look on the outside.

I don't care how much or how little they cost.

I don't care what material they're made of.

I don't care what sort of reputation the company has or used to have.

I don't care which company pays which other company for patent usage.

I DO care about which dies will load the straightest ammo with the least trouble.

If a Lee collet sizer can be used or adapted to use with any particular cartridge, I use it and am sure glad to have it regardless of price. If I'm willing to spend thousands on a rifle, why would I quibble about paying too much for dies?
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
I don't care how they look on the outside.

I don't care how much or how little they cost.

I don't care what material they're made of.

I don't care what sort of reputation the company has or used to have.

I don't care which company pays which other company for patent usage.

I DO care about which dies will load the straightest ammo with the least trouble.

If a Lee collet sizer can be used or adapted to use with any particular cartridge, I use it and am sure glad to have it regardless of price. If I'm willing to spend thousands on a rifle, why would I quibble about paying too much for dies?
Regards, Joe

I like how straight to the point and dong give shit attitude of this guy! +1 in my book, lee equipment or not

mr. kain got me on the lee powder scale...i think it's pretty cheesy, too, and there's no way lee's progressive press would ever replace any of my dillons...even for free, but selected products are excellent...j.d. steele likes the collet die sets...i agree.

i buy lee reloading dies exclusively these days and use their classic cast turret reloading press more than my rock chucker, orange crush or dillons, but i really like the utility/cost of lee casting equipment; is an rcbs lead pot more robust and does it have a better warranty? sure, but at at over six times the price is it a good choice for a beginner? probably not. lee molds are a similar value with lee's lube system an even greater value.

loading equipment manufacturers have their followers and their tools will perfrom as advertised, but some works better for you. with the benefit of lots of experience, the stuff i get from lee does what i want.

new reloaders i coach choose after evaluating my rcbs, lyman, dillon and lee stuff, usually opting for lee's product.

caveat emptor, brothers,

budman

Budman, I agree on the casting equipment, but I do opt for the iron/steel molds from Lyman. I have a casting pot from lee bottom poor 4" clearance. But that is collecting more dust then use now a days. I recommend for casting 100% Lyman products unless you NEED a bottom poor. I now use a propane stove and a lead pot with dipper. I find it easier to turn out more and less flaws.

At least we all can admit out off all of the reloading companies that there is at least 1 thing you would buy. But the lee pot is ONLY it for me. Great beginner bottom poor pots.

mr. kain,
iron molds from my early days as a caster are half of my inventory and a 10# lyman pot served me well for 20+ years...equipment costs were a smaller bite out of my "mad-money" than today; my ohaus molds only cost $5 each...those days are long gone.

only since learning about bull plate sprue lube do i appreciate aluminum molds because they are easily damaged by lead-smearing when cutting sprues ...incidentally, bull plate does a bang-up job for iron molds, too, preventing lead build-up between the sprue cutter and blocks even when cutting sprues that are plastic. here's a discussion on the product if you're interested. http://castboolits.gunloads.co...d.php?t=20272&page=2

i bought my lee 20# bottom pour pot for it's price...it is prone to dripping, but clean alloy, a catch-pan beneath the spout and a weight on the lever mechanism minimize the problem; its large opening allows me to use a ladle when i cast for my scoped, target .308 win. having resolved the lee pot's main fault to my satisfaction, i can't justify nearly $300 for rcbs's pot, casting less than 10k bullets a year.

fwiw, rumbling on casting forums regarding lyman's customer service and quality control would steer me to rcbs over lyman these days.

have you investigated tumble lube and push-thought sizers? alox tumble lube lets me skip sizing non-gas checked bullets .001"-.002" over nominal diameters.

push thru sizers are inexpensive, work in standard reloading presses, need no top punches and can be opened up for custom diameters by honing. they even resize jacketed bullets, such as .338" to .330" for weirdos like 8x56r hungarian mausers.

btw, where is norridgewock in relation to bangor? attended 10th grade there '61-'62 when my dad was in the usaf. great place to live back then.

budman