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I posted this on the LR thread but thought I would put it here: I just got back from a biz trip and found my new Annealing Made Perfect machine waiting for me. Guys, you are going to want to get one. Not cheap ($1240 with the shell holders I needed), but this thing is incredible. In less than five minutes I annealed 20 .308 Win cases. My days of screwing around with propane are over (this uses induction heating). Trust me. Just get one. | ||
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At that price not a snowballs chance. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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My time is worth at least $200/hr. At that rate, I need to save only five hours of labor to pay for this. I figure I am saving at least 1 minute per anneal, esp since I don't do them in large batches (getting set up with the torch, applying temp paste, getting it off afterwards, etc.). I only need to anneal 300 cases and I am breaking even. Even more important is the quality of the annealing. It appears to be perfect, but in reality, AMP has tested very brand of brass and has a specific program for that brass and cartridge, to include neck turning. Put it this way: it is 2 good barrels or four 8 lb kegs of powder. Not a big deal. | |||
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For sure. I have never anneal a single case in over 50 years of reloading. For common cases I see no need at all just buy or find more. Especially if I were making 200.00 and hour. If I were dealing with high priced uncommon stuff I case I might. Or making some strange stuff I might. But I don't shoot enough of the uncommon stuff to worry about it. But I am glad you like it. | |||
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I reload on my off time. Would you be getting paid $200/Hr if you weren't reloading? If you would be, then stop reloading. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Well, annealed brass is pretty important when it comes to consistent neck tension, which translates into better accuracy and more consistent velocities. | |||
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I reload to get the best possible ammunition. I own two businesses, so any effort I spend on them is money, and consequently, any effort spent on reloading takes away from that (as does posting on AR). I updated my sales and finance plan today as well as approving a proposal; I could do that on Monday but that takes away from time I could be selling or hiring. Put it this way: personally, I am going to die with a lot of money in the bank. On my death bed, will I wish I had $1K more but spent hundreds of hours bent over a propane torch? Sure, I could buy new brass every three firings, but then you have new case prep, which chews up time. | |||
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fwiw, I've owned my AMP since March... It IS the heat if you want to anneal properly. Properly meaning annealed to a number based on your brass, manufacturer, and in some cases case lots. Every case gets the SAME heat at the RIGHT spot. Micro-Vickers testing done by AMP for free and added to the database. Not dull red in low light and hoping you don't go over hot and ruin the case. It takes the dark majic out of annealing and makes it available, as a repeatable science, to anyone who can push a button... They were $999 last year until Graf's became the importer and it jumped to $1099 plus $8 Shipping. Add another $20 for each case holder. That said I would buy it from Brownells/Sinclair and get their gaurantee. Just about ANYONE except Grafs... IF annealing properly is important to you, and that is a big if, it all depends on how far you take handloading, competition, or just putting out the best handload possible, then this is THE ticket at the moment. They have hinted at an autofeed which will be retrofittable, however, it works exceptionally quickly as it is. It is so simple and borderline FUN that most people run out of brass to anneal the first time they run it... Maybe I'm just to easy to entertain and my Labrador is such a SUPERB listener...;-). Regards, Matt. https://www.ampannealing.com/settings/ | |||
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Another feather in the cap of New Zealand. This product was developed in, and worldwide distribution is from Pukekohe, the new Zealand town in which I reside. Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing. | |||
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1240 vs 2.99 for a bernz o matic tank  | |||
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I'm only worth a measly $45/hr, and that's when I'm at work. And using that formula the .308 I reload is costing me $4-$5 a shot. The device referenced above is good if someone has a lot of brass to process or the brass is rare or hard to get. It will also allow one to do other things. That means it's great for some folks but not everyone. My opinion, worth what you paid. | |||
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 Shucks, even rich guys deserve toys! Enjoy yourself AZ.  Roger  Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Rich is living in America and exercising your right to bear arms. | |||
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Indeed. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Most of us are very rich compared to many parts of the world. | |||
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What difference does the price make?? If you want it, and can afford it, you can have it. Only the buyer can put a value on anything he buys. I have never annealed any brass before, despite the fact many of my friends do. One reason for that was the hassle one has to go through to do it. Some tell you to heat them, then drop them in water. Others tell you to heat them, and let them air cool. Others tell you to heat them to different heat levels. This one take all the guessing out of it, and is very consistent. | |||
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Guess I don't know much. Been reloading ammo for 48 yrs and never thought I needed to Anneal cases for hunting loads. Am I missing something? | |||
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Yes and no if you want the most life out of a case one should anneal at about 5 per shots case. If you want the most consistent neck tension one should anneal. If one dose not care about the above then no you haven't missed any thing. | |||
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I haven't missed anything in 55 years of reloading. Dave | |||
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I only do it on my 6.5-06AI brass that has a tendency to split after the third firing. If you have the money, it is a great machine. There are also others on the market that will work as well, I believe. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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I've never annealed a single case but I agree with Saeed. If you want it and can afford it, get it. Total hackers spend nearly that much on a single golf club. Folks spend twice that amount on a scope whose only appeal over a scope that cost a third as much is bragging rights on how much it cost, etc, etc. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I have never annealed a case. My thought and maybe it is faulty is that I'm a happy camper if the first sign of brass fatigue is a split neck. I don't want to prolong case life until I get a case head separation. If my time were worth $200 per hour, don't know if I'd be reloading or posting here. $3.33 per minute--wow. But I'd also not balk at a $1200 case anealer if I wanted one. | |||
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The idea behind annealing brass is to get more "uniform" neck tensions, and thus, less velocity variation between firings, especially after the cases have been reloaded a number of times? OK good. Thus, I bought some brand new Lapua brass, which gets annealed before it's placed on the market - indeed, you can see the discoloration caused by the heating around the neck and shoulders. BUT, I found no difference in velocity variation between brand new Lapua brass and old - very old - Remington brass. I don't bother with annealing, but I do fret about the changing, gusting wind...  ...which remains a pain-in-the-ass. | |||
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Sounds like annealing is for the guys that are anal.... I am not going to mess with it, as I can hit what I am aiming out to 400 yards with my reloads and cheap old brass. And that for now is far enough for me. | |||
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Glad you like it I started reloading in 1966 and have not annealed a case yet I won't be buying one NRA Patron member | |||
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I'm always surprised with the anti or semi derogatory remarks that the subject of annealing often gets when it comes up. "Sounds like annealing is for the guys that are anal." "I haven't missed anything in 55 years of reloading." All new cases are annealed by the manufacturer, if the annealing process was not done you would probably be lucky to reload the case once if it didn't split on first firing. Annealing is just a natural process for preserving the life of cases for reloading. How many here clean primer pockets, weigh cases, chamfer case mouths and god forbid CLEAN THEIR CASES. A bright shiny case is surely going to improve velocity, make reloading a pleasure, look good when you stack your mag, win you the prize of shooter of the year, you'll likely even get some sponsorship for showing off your nice bright shiny ammunition. Jeez, annealing is not rocket science and is a basic of case manufacture and preservation. if you don't want to do it don't, but at least acknowledge it is a normal operation that many undertake for very valid reasons. Remarks such as those I've quoted above only show ignorance of reloading practice, of course everyone has a right to show that if they wish. | |||
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If you want one buy one. Does a normal reloader need one? I say no. I anneal after forming wildcats usually once. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Thanks AZ, you just cost me 13 hundred bucks.  Anyone looking for a benchsource?  Mac | |||
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I got around well on a bicycle until I became old enough to drive. Never flew before the day I was skydiving and got a chance to sit in the right seat. Never flew a helicopter until a buddy said, "hey you want to go for a ride." Never used an electronic calculator until I found out an HP 29S could make linear progressions for me. Never drove a vehicle with electronic ignition until I bought a pickup truck that had that as a standard feature. Never drove a 4WD until I bought a Toyota pick up truck. The dealer only had 4WDs on the lot. Never annealed until a 257 Roberts improved was producing split necks on the second reload. Then It made it to ten reloads without cracking. Never considered the AMP unit until I added up the cost of my 6.5x57mm Mauser, 5.7x57mm RWS, 6.5 x 65mm RWS, 6.5x68mm , 8x68mm S, 9.3x64, 9.3 x 66mm Sako, 9.3x70mm (DWM 569), .404 Jeffery, 416 Rigby, 275 Rigby; Lapua brass: .223 Match, 7mm-08, 338 Lapua, .308 Match, 220 Russian, Well you get the idea. I am saving up for one right now. Basing one's views and decisions on only your experience is the ultimate non-copernican view of the solar system. I flew an F-16 after reading everything the engineers and test pilots told me about the machine. The ride went great.  | |||
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 When your wildcating it is almost a must to anneal. I have been wildcating for over 50 years, have made at least 8 maybe 9 original wildcats , and have annealed less than 1000 cases over that period of time. I don't think the need for a $1200.00 ANNEALER would have been justified. If I had really wanted one though, well, that's a different story and never was told.  roger Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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You guys are way too organzied, I have no idea how many times any piece of brass has been loaded. But I can guarantee I have lost it or throw it away or decided to try a different brand before it ever got to five. Oh yea, I even shoot dirty cases. I haven't had trouble yet getting a rifle to shoot MOA. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Well, wrt annealing in general and its value . . . If I understand things correctly, I can see it as very valuable if you are trying to preserve cases (in my case, that would be .225 Win cases which nobody seems to be making these days). I also think annealing would be highly useful if you are a bench-rest/competition shooter who needs to have the most consistent neck tension possible. If you're shooting a .223, .30-06, .243 or other such cartridge whose cases are readily available and are happy with < 0.75 MOA, maybe annealing isn't all that important. | |||
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Cool machine. https://www.ampannealing.com/index/ Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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I've killed loads of game over the past 45 yrs, 30 yrs worth of reloading, and have never annealed anything either. My answer is neck sizing. | |||
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If you only shoot a few times a year (hunters?) then I can see how you could go 50 years on one set of brass. I shoot a lot more than that. I used a propane torch and electric drill for many years. Induction annealing is a lot faster and can be more consistent. There is no drawback apart from initial expense, and in fact it can do a few things not possible otherwise. For example, with induction heat I can anneal the neck of a 40S&W because I can put a bunch of heat into a small area without overheating the case head. I would not try this with a torch. We were talking about this here too: http://forums.accuratereloadin...2511043/m/5931089822 With a little DIY work you don't have to spend a lot. | |||
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Being retired, I can in no way afford such a magnificent machine, but surely do not be-grudge anyone who can. Wish my electrical knowledge was up to snuff and could figure this one out: https://thefiringline.com/foru...wthread.php?t=575080 | |||
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Neck sizing doesn't address the fact every time you work a brass case it gets harder. I have used this machine for a little over a week now and I am totally thrilled with it. I now anneal every case I load - it is that easy. | |||
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Here's a couple of examples of what happens when brass gets well used and annealing is not done often enough. First I kick myself and then silver solder the cracks, clean up, anneal ,polish the cases and carry on using my valuable 404 Jeffery cases for cast loads. Second photo shows repair before annealing and polishing. No more heat applied to the case for soldering than is for annealing. Don't mind if you call that anal   | |||
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I'm sure there are several variables to consider when annealing that I don't take into account. On the other hand annealing has certainly made a huge difference in case life even using my simple crude one at a time propane torch method. For this reason and wanting to spend less time annealing expensive to replace brass I ordered a $300 machine that will even safely process M1 Carbine brass. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Game Changer: Annealing Made Perfect
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