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In aviation incident/accident investigation, highly experienced pilots are called to such enquiries to give their considered opinion.[as has my chief pilot/instructor with some 30,000 hrs rotary wing] Just because they were not involved in that incident, does not mean the experience/knowledge they have and the view they express according to such, should be discounted or worthless. In fact, They are specifically called to such enquires to help better understand what may have transpired or gone wrong...to assist the enquiry in establishing a credible finding. I see a similarity when someone uses PHs to give their views,findings,valued judgements.
Talk to some PHs and hunters in general, and you may find that they would be interested in stopping/turning an animal ...not just in incidences where the animal is charging toward them, -they may also express the practical desire to "stop" or "turn" an animal from fleeing and reaching the cover of thick growth or going over a cliff edge. | |||
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Bullets hiting angled plate. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg Interestingly,later in the video, in the perpendicular angle of icidence impact tests, you can see lead projectiles hiting the plate where,bullet material that is deflecting directly back from the plate actually contributes to premature destruction of the remainder of the intact bullet that is still travelling toward the plate. Now, I can understand the need to know how a bullet will behave when attempting penetrate metal plate in scenarios where humans are the intended target, but what relevance does piercing metal plate or deflection/ricochet off such, have when hunting game animals? A projectile that hits a metal mass can deflect [sometimes regardless of projectile Sd,design,material,construction or angle of incidence], but may infact completely penetrate [or lodge in] a mass of live tissue[bone] hit at the same angle by the same projectile.   | |||
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In the court cases you mention related to aircraft, if the experts that you mentioned told you what their testimony was and you tried to give it to the court to be entered into the record it would not be allowed. It would be considered hear say evidence. Now if the PHs come forward and tell us what happened it is an entirely different matter. 465H&H | |||
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Read a story about a black bear that was shot from the door of a cabin. The bear spun so fast that the when the bullet exited it hit the door frame where the shooter was standing. In my mind...pure BS. Like most of this thread. Find a good bullet and go hunting. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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Alf, you've blathered on for 7 pages and still haven't told us HOW to use the supposed information contained in sectional density, and how that number should effect a persons decision making process when selecting a bullet. Unless you can do this, all your blather is worthless. | |||
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokV7HzJhG4 | |||
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Firstly, I did not mention or make reference to court cases.... which primarily attempt to lay specific blame/liability on an individual or company....based on the findings of the accident investigation. Instead I mentioned the process of "incident-accident investigation", where the insights & technical views[testimonies] of reputable people who are considered highly knowledgeable & experience- or experts in their field, are strongly taken into account when the enquiry attempts top come up with its findings. They can be people from within the crash investigation team and/or people of reputable independent standing, who are also called apon to give their valued direct experience based view. In the UK, aeroplane crashes come under the domain of The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB), which is responsible for the investigation of civil aircraft accidents and serious incidents within the UK. They are also often called upon to assist in military incidents as well as aviation accidents overseas, especially where British registered planes are involved. Their aim is to respond quickly to air accidents and serious incidents and lead and manage the accident investigation team. AAIB stress that the aim of an investigation is ‘to improve aviation safety by determining the causes of air accidents and serious incidents and making safety recommendations intended to prevent recurrence - it is not to apportion blame or liability. Like AAIB, Gerards intent is not to use the information obtained from professionals to lay blame or liability....but to use such testimonies to gather a greater depth of knowledge & understanding in his field of interest-investigation. PHs giving testimony and highly experienced pilots giving testimony, if your not trying to sue or lay blame in a court of law, but rather attempting to form findings based on incidents of bullet behaviour/performance/failure?,..or lets call it "projectile impact/crash investigation" ...then such testimony has substance and validity....much like the testimonies of carefully select individuals given in aircraft or motor vehicle crash investigations. Court cases that emerge around the same incident-accident usually come about after the investigation deems attempts at prosecution appropriate. However,its usually after all avenues of investigation have been exhausted, that charges are preferred. | |||
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If you had an array of projectiles each of same dia. & weight[thus same Sd]..but of different density materials. e.g. tunGsten,copper,aluminium,..that would mean they would each be of different length, and each given the same impact velocity and surface finish, each would exhibit different levels of drag through tissue. | |||
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Alf you say: However, on page one of this thread I see: On page two you say:
Page three:
Page four:
Page five:
Why do you say the playing field is altered? It has been the same from page one. I say that SD, as a single entity, does not determine penetration and you do not say it does not. | |||
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Has anyone used a high speed camera to film the non-con bullets as they impact and travel through ballistic gelatin? NRA Benefactor TSRA Life DRSS Brno ZP-149 45-120 NE | |||
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nugman, Thanks for something interesting on this thread. Lap'oo-ah  40,000 frames per second was nice. 1,000,000 frames per second and higher magnification and focus on the expanding bullet inside the ordnance gelatin would probably be too much to ask for.  | |||
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