i recently started reloading my .223 and 7mm remington mag and i cant quite find the right combination that yields the accuracy i want. i started with the .223 and i got it shooting 3 shot groups at 100 yds that were no bigger than a single hole made by the 7mm.i didnt have the same luck however with the 7mm, i am using hornady 154gr spire points and H4831 starting out at 55gr goin to the maximum of 65gr, i found that 64gr works the best but still doesnt do great, i mean, i had better accuracy with store bought ammo.i measured every powder load by hand and each shell before oand after i loaded each shot and they where are very close, and cleaned the gun thoroughly after each new load combination(usaully 2 or 3 3shot groups).i'm shooting a remington 700 in both rounds and i would really like to get an accurate formula for my 7mm with the 154gr sp, does anybody have any ideas??

The 1000 Yard Wimbledon Cup match at Camp Perry was won by a shooter using 4350 in the 7MM mag with Sierra bullets back in the 70s. You might ask Sierra.

For powder choice in the 7mm RemMag...I found
H-1000 to be a superior 7mmMag powder.
Tom

how much powder do u use with what kind of bullet

I have been loading RL-22 and RL-19 for the 7 mag, both with excelent results. I tend to use 160 grain bullets, I do like the 154 Hornady for my 7X57 and it would be great for you deer hunting , but you might consider a 160 grain bullets for all around use.
I use nosler balistic tips for deer and acubon for elk. ...tj3006

gilk,

It would be helpful to know what kind of accuracy you're getting and what you hope to get.

I use RL-22 for bullets weighing 140 to 160 grains. I get from a bit less than 1 MOA to 1.5 MOA. I also use large rifle rather than large rifle magnum primers.

This was a couple of years ago but here's a 100 yard target. 150 grain Remington CL whith 68 grains of H1000 in a Ruger #1.

Sorry about the focus and yes, I didn't hit the penny.

that picture above is the accuracy i've come to expect from my 700 in .223 and i would like to get close to that for the 7mm, the accuracy im gettin now is 3 shots at about 3/4" -5/8"(center to center) @ 100yds, i dont see any reason why i shouldnt be able to get that down to 3/8" - 1/4" @ 100yds

If you're getting consistent 3/4-5/8" groups out of a factory 7mm mag then you need to shake a chicken leg over it and call it a day. That's better than about 99% of all the factory rifles out there and you're most likely not going to get any better.

A rifle that shoots consistent 1/4" groups will win most benchrest matches. Needless to say that's not likely to be found out of off the shelf remington M700's. I think you may be setting your sights too high.

i was gettin better groups with factory ammo, the main reason i started reloadin was to save money(i got more than 70 cents per shot less)and second to get better accuracy.

i've never shot better than 1/2" @ 100 with my 223 and now the groups are so close it looks like one bullet hole.

the thing im desapointed with is that when reloading my 7mm my accuracy was decreased compared to factory ammo, which was shooting very well(about 1/2" @100), i'd like to fine tune my reloads to at least match factory preformance b/c instead of paying $1.25 it only costs $0.55 per round, which is great b/c i like to target shoot alot and it can get expensive very quick

I shot a friends Remington 40X in 7MM Rem Mag about 30 years ago. Groups were about 1.25" at 200 yards. You are not likly to match that with the run of the mill facotry rifle.

I also think you're setting your criteria for accuracy a bit high. That said, with reloading, I've always been able to get better accuracy than with factory ammo when I've tried.

The bullets I've found to be most accurate in my 7mm Rem. Mag are:

1. 160 gr. (maybe it's 162 gr.) Hornady A-Max
2. Barnes 140 gr. XLC XBT (not a cheap bullet)

well i'll get this thing lined out one way or another and post some pics of my results when the damn 500 day rain storm stops

I shoot a Commercial Mauser 3K L 63 Vintage .I looked up the data for my loads , targets are buried under plies and piles of !!. Using 160 HP BT Sierra's Game King mine prints .375 -.525 on a regular basis powered by 77.6 grains of H870 some where in the 2880 FPS. Also had pretty good luck with IMR 4831 61.0 grains same projectile think speed was near 3K FPS if memory is still intact . Years ago I used to go to those storage garages people rented and some times bid or out right purchase the contents for the back rent owed on them . I guess they would skip out and leave their stuff , then management would try and recover the financial loss. I purchased one with 4 loading presses , K's of AA Hulls, Cases Winchester , Norma , Remington Projectiles shells . You get the Idea. In the lot were over 16 K Sierra ,Speer 7mm and .30 Cal projectiles . Along with a 7mm 156 grain Mag Tip Sliver projectile .Not nickel , Sliver !. Does any one have an Idea as to who manufactured those ?. They were all with in 2 tenths of 156 Grain weight. I sure like those for hunting who ever made them .

We are all products of design , one can only hope you came with very good directions !.

Gilk,

W/o a custom gun it just don't get no better than that! Many custom guns won't guarantee 3/4" groups from a 7 mag. I had a 700 rebedded in a brown Precision that woudl shoot 5 shot groups w/ the occasional group about the high .500, but averaged about .800 w/ most quality bullets (Sierra 160 BT, Nosler 150 BT) and I kick myself every day for letting it go (I was living in BC and wanted Stainless).

The choice of bullet tip may not be up to the challenge. Hornady is not known for making super accurate bullets. Sierra and Nosler are much better choices. As long as the mechanical issues such as bedding, trigger smoothness etc. are taken care of also look at all of the details surrounding your case prep. When you want tiny groups minor things are "all important".

giolk, I sot many loads before I found that one. and it was the max. I have 2 rifles that shoot better when I'm at the max. My others shot best below the max. Why, I guess it the barrel.

Here's another picture showing what that cheap Remington CL will do in the 7 mag at 185 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Mc:
giolk, I sot many loads before I found that one. and it was the max. I have 2 rifles that shoot better when I'm at the max. My others shot best below the max. Why, I guess it the barrel.

Here's another picture showing what that cheap Remington CL will do in the 7 mag at 185 yards.

IMO the most important criteria for accurate loads is identifying the optimal OAL. It is far more important than case prep or anything else you can do.

FWIW, I shoot 79 grains of milsurp WC 860 behind a Nosler 162-grain Solid Base seated ~.010" off the lands, and light it off with a Federal 215. This same load goes into my BDL and my son's tang safety M77, and when we do our part the bullets go to the same POI. Cases are typically Winchester, but I haven't seen any difference in accuracy using different cases, so long as all the shots come from the same brand of case.

well i can shoot 3/4" groups with my eyes closed and it was shooting 1/2" or better with factory ammo, so i know i can get it to at least that or better, and trust me i will, its just a matter of time til i find the right combo

My 7 mag with its present barrel likes 150 gr Ballistic Tips over IMR 4831. Didn't shoot at all with H4831 though. The previous barrel wouldn't shoot anything but 160 gr Nosler Partitions-whether handloads or Federal Factory loads.

You'll hear lots of discussion and naysaying about the Ballistic Tips, but everything I've shot with them was DRT (dead right there). If you are jumpy about the Ballistic Tip's reputation, use them for target practice.

However, 1/2" groups are good groups out of a factory rifle in a hunting caliber with substantial recoil.

H4831sc is ok in the 7mag w/ 150-154gr bullets, but I prefer RL22 or IMR7828. You may want to try another brand of bullet. The spire point of the Hornady does weird things in some rifles. I can't get the 200gr/.338 to shoot worth a crap in my /338-06, but the 200gr Speer is under 1moa. For just punching paper, hard to beat the Sierra or NBT.

If you don't need the max velocity, try some of the load data using IMR 4064, IMR 4895, and RL 15....

You may give up a 100 fps or so, but the recoil will be less, using less powder... the lifespan of the barrel will increase, and you'd be surprised on the accuracy being less finicky.....it works well when I shoot the 154 grainer Hornady's in my 7 Mag...

The best loads I've found in my two Factory M700 7RMs have been w/ R22 lit w/ Fed 215 GMMs.

The 150 grn Nosler SB, 150 NBT, and Sierra 160GK SPBTs have worked well.

These rifles shoot just a bit less than .5" at 100 for 3 shots when I do my part. They are both bedded into HS stocks which helped one shave 1/4" off the groups vs the factory plastic.

Weigh your cases, trim to the same length, use match primers(try different primers), check concentricity, and most importantly do every step the exact same from round to round. Consistency, Consistency, Consistency...

Good Luck

Reloader

what are good cases to use?

i realoaded some remington brass from factory ammo that i bought and it seemed to do pretty good then i bought some once fired remington brass that was the same head stamp and it shoots absolutely horrible(about 2.5" - 3" groups @ 100yds, compared to .75", which is pretty much usless)..it is remington RP

why would the same brass yield such different results?

gilk, how are you sizing the brass? 7RM are notorious for differing chamber dimensions. The brass should be partial sized or neck sized for best results, stay off the belt for headspacing & see if that helps.

what exactly do u mean by sizing? i measure each case with calipers after i resize it in my press, but i dont have a brass trimer yet as i told i wouldnt need it until i reloaded my brass more than a few times.

I think you'll get by with at most a three shootings of the brass before it will need to be trimmed.

gilk, sizing/resizing, same thing. Since the case is belted, if you are full length resizing the brass, you may be getting excessice headspace & a sloppy chamber fit. This could be causing some of your accuracy problems.
Try resizing the case so your bolt just closes on it when you chamber. Then load thme up & try for accuracy again. The 7RM can be finicky about handloads, but a great caliber.

well it seems that i remember some of my reloads fitting tighter than other when i chambered them

how do i adjust my resizing die to change head space, i dint think u could resize them differently

what is an acceptable weight difference for brass?

If you're looking for that next .01 - .02 inches of accuracy try seating closer to the lands. If you don't have a guage, check some of the previous threads here, there's piles of them explaining the easy ways to do this. Fwiw, I shoot a CDL in 7mag, the max suggested oal is 3.29 according to almost every book I've read. Yet mine are loaded out to 3.33, make sure they still fit in the mag, if you're hunting with tham.

Gilk,
I just finished doing a work up with 7mmRM, and will share some of my findings. I was using a 160 Sierra, which is close to your 154 Hornady, and tested 4350, 7828, 4831, and RL22. I found that RL22 and 4821 gave me best accuracy followed by 7828. 7828 is my choice for 175gr bullets. It will shoot as good as I can hold it.

I was using data out of my ancient now Hodgden manual, and staying a grain below the max with all by the 7828 load. The RL22 and 4831 were 2900 and 2880 respectively from my 24" barrel. The 7828 load was 64 grain, and was at 2840; however, max is 68gr!

If my groups were below an inch, I'd try various primers and various seating depths to milk the last little bit out of the load.

You may also want to test your loads in the 7mag at 200yards. Some rifle bullets just don't "settle" until 200+ yards. I have one rifle that shoots about the same at 100, 200, and 300 yards.

Shooting 154gr bullets in a 7mmRM doesn't make use of the rifle's total potential. It was designed to shoot the 160 and 175gr bullets and reach out to 275 and 300 yards. In addition, the 154 bullets at short range will be explosive and if they don't blow up, will really mess up a lot of meat. I'd suggest the 160gr Partition for all round use. It is one heck of a bullet and devastating in the RemMag. The 175Hornady is a very good bullet, and pretty reasonable.

Best of luck. Sound like you have a keeper. Kudude

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
IMO the most important criteria for accurate loads is identifying the optimal OAL. It is far more important than case prep or anything else you can do.

I agree, but I'd wouldn't say it is far more important than a concentricity gauge. That little tool will tell you just how well you are doing while loading. These 2 things, IME, are more important than exact powder charges, primer choice, or brass choice.

Next, your brass needs to be trimmed to identical lengths. When full length resizing, you need to make sure you are bumping the shoulder back only 1-2 thousandths at the most, and you need to mic that as well.

I do not like RP brass as well as WW.

Get a concentricity gauge, find the sweet OAL, use Federal Gold Medal Match primers.

7mm Rem Mag, Ruger #1, 26" barrel:
Hornady 175 gr soft point #2850, 65 gr H4831sc, 3.34", .9" group at 100 yards with 6X scope and my old eyes.

A very consistant 2850 fps at ~ 53 kpsi

Although way hotter than Hodgdon's published loads, I realize that this wimpy load is somewhere between 7mm Mauser and 280 Remington for a skilled handloader, but it really gets the job done.

I have the chrono matching the bullet part number

tnek, 2850fps is quite respectable from the 7rm, you aren't getting close to that w/ a .280 & not even in the same planet as a 7x57.
gilk, how are you adjusting your dies? If you screw the die into the press so it touches the ram when it's at the top of the stroke, you are full length sizing. Back the die out 2 full turns, size a case & try it in your action. If the bolt closes easily, turn the die out 1/4 turn until it closes w/ some resistance. That's where I would stop.

gilk--
If the rounds feel tight or inconsistant closing the bolt make sure the overall case length is in spec. My 7mm rifles like me to trim cases more frequently than any other caliber I own. I've had luck with the Lee factory crimp die making a difference when my loads were notably worse than factory in a rifle,.....but then neither were as good as the groups you're mentioning.

Cheers,

Dan

gilk,

You've received some great advice here.

I think your criteria is pretty stringent also but with some perseverence you ought to be able to get a rifle that is already shooting factory ammo very well to do the same; if not, better with your reloads in a 7mm Rem. Mag.

Sometimes, like mentioned above the 7mm Rem. Mag. (like the .300 Weatherby) can be a touch fickle to find the right sweet spot.

FWIW, mine likes 63.0 grs. of H-4831 with 150 grain Sierra HP Match Kings and I had to fiddle with the OAL a bit to get it to drill 'em.

A Lee Gauge for trimming won't set you back more than $7.00 and you'll be able to reduce the one variable of case length immediately.

Like mentioned previously adjust the Die to size the brass to your chamber, you'll get better case life and the fit will be about as good as it gets - for your rifle.

Velocity is certainly nice add-on when reloading but accuracy is paramount and achieved by consitancy and that's the name of the game in my book. Make sure you're doing the same thing everytime and that with prooven components and each piece of ammo the same.

My best results mirror a lot of others, RL22 and H4831. It is a safe bet that RL22 will give higher velocity as a rule, and often accuracy is as good or better.

Try shooting ladders. It will save you a lot of time and powder. For example, load about 11 rounds using IMR 4831, starting around 63 grains and increasing in .3 or .4 grain increments until you reach maximum. This would be for 160 gr. bullets. Shoot into a bull. Use a spotting scope and another bull on your bench. Mark on your bench target each round. See where they bunch up. They almost always will. For example, you might find that 64.3, 64.6 and 64.9 are in a 1.2" group. Load six at 64.6 and shoot two three shot groups to further test.

I found that with 150 and below RL22 is my best powder. 160 and above I use Retumbo with 175 gr Partitions I get 2934 chrono'd. My best Accuracy is 160 Accubonds with 70 gr of Retumbo and CCI250, Hornady brass. My speed load is 140 Accubond 67 gr RL 22,CCI250, Hornady brass 3300 fps chrono'd. Took a nice 6x6 Elk with the 160 gr load last week.reduce all loads by 5% and work up.