In my quest to try and size with less operations, I wonder why rifle dies aren't offered in carbide as in pistol dies?
Also, (I don't reload pistol ammo) do you really not need lube in a carbide pistol cartridge die?

This is a simple answer: Cost. The pistol calibers are but a ring of carbide material which size a cylinder. Rifle dies must size a different shape and would require far more material. They have been available over the years from specialty producers, but for a dear price.

308 Sako, thanks for the quick reply. I suspected that as a possibility. I think I would actually pay for one in a couple of calibers, 270 and of course 308 (for my Sako)!

There are some rilfe dies in carbide, usually calibers that are loaded in high volume, 223 308.. the cased still have to be lubed as far as I know.

user volume... most people don't shoot the 100-200 rounds of pistol they shoot in a rifle.

however, CH4D will TIN coat your dies.

i still lube mine in carbide pistol.. just to be sure
jeffe

Never had a carbide rifle die, but you certainly don't have to lube straight-walled pistol cases. All my handgun dies are carbide sizers.

Interesting intel guys--Jeffe, what's the upside of TIN coated dies? (by the way that is Titanium Nitride--right?)

With carbide pistol dies, you are only contacting a very small area at any one time. One can easily muster the force to pass the case through the carbide ring. The surface contact area in a rifle carbide die could be close to 50 times the total area of a pistol carbide die ring. Consequently, the case would still have to be lubed to function through the die, or more specifically, to get it back out of the die, and that defeats your intended purpose (not lubing). Carbide case dies are made but their purpose is longevity in a high volume mass production. They still are lubed.

There are instances where I do think that the manufacturers are missing an opportunity. For instance, a carbide neck sizer die for something like a 45-70 could be just as easily made as a pistol die. I would buy one of those in a heart beat just to skip the lube process.

Last time I looked, Dillion had carbide dies in .223 and .308. Expensive. And even those dies require lubracated cases.

quote:

Why aren't there Carbide Rifle Dies

There are!.....I have a set of carbide 223 dies from Dillon......slickest damn things I ever bought!

Yes they require lubrication but very little is required!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NFMike:
The surface contact area in a rifle carbide die could be close to 50 times the total area of a pistol carbide die ring.

The contact area would only be twice what a pistol die is. All that would be required would be a ring of carbide at the base just like a pistol die and then another ring to size the neck.

There are instances where I do think that the manufacturers are missing an opportunity. For instance, a carbide neck sizer die for something like a 45-70 could be just as easily made as a pistol die. I would buy one of those in a heart beat just to skip the lube process.

If there is a market, I'm sure that a die with a carbide insert is available for the 45/70 or any other in that family. The whole die would not need to made of carbide. Carbide benefits from lubrication just like any other metal to metal operation that produces friction. Carbide is far harder (obviously) and therefore resists the embedding of foreign materials better which is it's only advantage. Keep your brass and dies clean and lubed and you don't need carbide.
That's my story and I'm stickin to it! Jim

quote:

The contact area would only be twice what a pistol die is. All that would be required would be a ring of carbide at the base just like a pistol die and then another ring to size the neck.

When a pistol die has carbide it is usually for a straight wall case. So the entire case is reduced to the same dia then the mouth is opened to accept the bullet.

Rifle cases are for the most part tapered. A ring of carbide around the base would only hit the base at the very last moment of sizing.

Are am I confused? I could see it for a straight wall rifle case.

You can see on a resized case where all of the resizing has been accomplished and it is never from the shoulder all the way down. The only places that are important is at the shoulder and at the pressure ring and of course at the neck. This is especially true if you have your dies set to PFLR. What difference would it make whether the base of the die is hardened steel or carbide other than the fact that all the grit and dirt will not so readily embed into the carbide? Jim

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Why aren't there Carbide Rifle Dies

There are!.....I have a set of carbide 223 dies from Dillon......slickest damn things I ever bought!

Yes they require lubrication but very little is required!

Vapo, this sounds interesting, I use the Imperial die wax, and use it as sparingly as I can get it on there--so I guess that's more than enough for a carbide die since it works with all my regular dies. My question is, what in particulare makes you like them so much?---slicker is good for sure.....

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Vapo, this sounds interesting, I use the Imperial die wax, and use it as sparingly as I can get it on there--so I guess that's more than enough for a carbide die since it works with all my regular dies. My question is, what in particulare makes you like them so much?---slicker is good for sure.....

I use this die on my Dillon 650 with case feeder.

I just throw a bunch of brass (about 100) in a cardboard box and give about a one second shot of Lyman spray lube (are you listening Roger?), shake the box a little and spray another second, shake the box again and finsally spray the box another second and dump the contents of the box into the case feeder ang get back to making prairie dog medicine!

Fish, Since you still have to lube rifle brass with Carbide dies I think you best bet is to go with an easier way to lube.
I use std Dillon 223 Dies in my 650 but I use the Dillon Spray lube. Can't say if it's any better or worse than Vapodog's Lyman Spray lube but either can of lube is a whole lot cheaper to try out than a Carbide rifle die is......................DJ

CH4d offered this... i had it done on my jeffery dies.. they claim you can't wear them out with the TiN coating... but I am trying...

added about 857 years to deliver time, though

I know Dave Davidson that owns CH. I asked him that very same question on the phone a very long time ago. He gave the same answers that are found here: One the cost, two you still have to lube the case, but not as much, and three they are usually dies for high production places.

Joe

Thanks guys---

DJ, after your comments on another thread caused me to have to buy a Bersin tool, trying a can or two of spray lube is a snap Thanks--Don

Fish, I sure hope you like your Bersin tool. If you have anywhere near as good of luck with it as I have I think you'll love it.............DJ