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Ignored post by Hot Core posted 18 July 2010 07:17

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Originally posted by Oddbod:
Another thread dragged off course by a self opinionated idiot.
Hot Core supporters please note it was he who posted the first trash comments.

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there is now way any of them would fire reduced pistol powder loads in a large capacity case

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Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Boss Hoss wrote:

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there is now way any of them would fire reduced pistol powder loads in a large capacity case

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No one here is doing that or proposing to do so.

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Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Good points about Hot Core. I finally put ol' Melting at the Seams on ignore when he wished physical harm upon myself and another poster. And when his little sidekick rcamuglia chimed in and said "that was funny as hell," he went on ignore also.

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There is some agreement on the following: Very low density loads (meaning the ratio of powder volume to cartridge case volume) of very fast powders under varying environmental conditions can create up to 4X normal chamber pressures and may cause the light load rupture to occur. Ruptured barrels can be symptomatic of too much powder (double charge loads, etc.). Ruptured cylinders and dissappearing backstraps can be sypmptomatic of a light-load rupture.

The use of low density charges with one of the top 10 fastest powders in the world at half the recommended factory charge weight may work in your gun, but it's risky.

It may not work in someone else's gun. Therefore, no one should recommend very light loads, especially of fast burning powders to anyone. Stuck bullets is another matter. With very light loads and powder against the bullet, a very mild shot can stick a bullet in the barrel. The NEXT shot can have disasterous consequences, also leading to the cautions against very light loads of any type, but especially of fast burning powders at the other end of the case from the primer.

There has been an article published in Trails End Magazine on this same subject (see Volume 1, No. 3 Oct/Nov 1995).

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Pulling the trigger my Contender exploded. Reeling and dazed by the violent explosion, I just stood there stupidly looking at what was left.

Swearing, not really understanding what had happened, I could see my barrel lodged into the ground just ahead of my feet. I tore my headphones of my ringing ears and yelled, "I just blew up my blankety-blank gun."

Jack Fearell, my brother-in-law and fellow Contender aficionado standing almost 100 yards to my rear said, "are you all right?" and came running. About that time there was a clink as the back half of my Leupold scope hit the ground near him. Neither one of us knew at the time what it was but it made such a distinctive sound Jack said, "What was that?"

We later discovered the scope piece and you can figure out how high it must have gone into the air before returning to earth.. Settling down, I started to take stock of what I had. The barrel, with its underlug missing, was at my feet. Its' breech a gaping maw of three fingers of bent and twisted Shilen steel. The 4x Leupold scope and TSOB were gone. The Pachmayr forend was still attached to the barrel and in my hand was the Contender frame, minus one side plate and the other badly distorted.

Jack came running, again asking, are you okay? Another shooting partner, Orvel Bird checked out my hand and said, "what do you think happened, a double load of powder, a lodged bullet or what?" No, I thought, I saw the last bullet hit the ground and I checked all the cases after charging, it must have been detonation.

Detonation is defined as a violent explosion caused by the powder igniting instantly or all at once, creating tremendous pressures. Remember all smokeless powders are designed to burn at a controlled rate. Looking at the barrel lying on the ground, I could tell there was something wrong with it but did not know what. Jack asked, "where is the scope and TSOB?" Realizing what was wrong with the barrel, the scope was missing. I, still in shock said, "well maybe we can find it and it will be okay."

The reality of what had happened, was starting to sink in. My entire Contender was destroyed. Not damaged, but destroyed. I was probably the luckiest man alive, I had my hand(s) my head, my eyes, everything. Lucky in many ways. For instance, for accuracy, I usually shoot two handed, sometimes with my left hand on the forend, today it was different. I had just wanted to bang off ten rounds to get them fireformed and all I was doing was shooting dirt and a clay pigeon, one handed.

Jack went back down the road where he and Orvel had heard something clink and found the back half of my scope. It looked like it had been run over by a tank. It was no longer round but flattened, but the eye glass was not broken. The TSOB had been torn in half with one ring still attached.

Orvel, after examining the barrel and as a retired engineer figured that the front half had to have gone an equal distance to the front. It had. Jack found it after just a few minutes of looking. The rings had held, the scope and TSOB had been ripped into two, but the front bell was still attached.......

Calling JD, I told him this story and he said, "Fast burning pistol powder, when put into a large case with lots of air will detonate. I can't prove it, but I have heard too many stories like yours for it not to be true. Your pointing it at the ground just before firing probably put all the powder up against the bullet."

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Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Why even do it?

A .223 has no recoil anyway. To save $? To reduce the report?

Why not just use a .22 LR?

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Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
...I wouldn't wish you harm, or for you to damage a gun, as you have to Bobby and me. ...

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Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Au Contrare! Why NOT do it...

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"Fast burning pistol powder, when put into a large case with lots of air will detonate.

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There is some agreement on the following: Very low density loads (meaning the ratio of powder volume to cartridge case volume) of very fast powders under varying environmental conditions can create up to 4X normal chamber pressures and may cause the light load rupture to occur

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we are essentially turning the 223 into a 22 Hornet or 22 K Hornet...

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Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Hot Core, You asked for it, now here is YOUR QUOTE, and as for me I am done with you

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By Hot Core:
"But you do get the opportunity to totally lock-up your rifle. Or perhaps you would prefer the total Ka-Boom Blue Dot Loads. Excellent way to create Scrap for the WAR effort….There is simply no way to tell you how " HAPPY " it makes me to see you and bobbiee using Reduced Blue Dot Loads."

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Originally posted 20 July 2010 17:05 by jerriee:
...I,m done with you.

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Originally posted 20 July 2010 18:18 by Hot Core:
Thank you, real glad to hear it.

However, I really doubt jerriee's word will hold True.

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Originally posted 20 July 2010 19:00 by jerriee:
...I,m done with you.

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What is WRONG with those folks at Alliant? How could they possibly recommend ANYTHING against that combined brain-trust.? Amazing!!!

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Originally posted by Haggis:
I know this is a little off topic but... what's with adding "iee" to everybody's name? Is it some form of voodoo hex or some form of gong bonging involving much hand waving? Confused

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Originally posted by Haggis:
Thanks for clearing that one up for me Seafire. So, it's infantile. check.
Sadly, most of our children call each other alot worse now

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Alliant recommends against using Reduced Blue Dot Loads.

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Originally posted by Geedubya:
RCH

Threads have a natural life. If they go on for a while there is a reason. I believe this thread is not just about using blue dot powder, but also a commentary on different types of individuals. Some approach life with zest and joy, others remind me of the old saying, "get all you can, can all you get, sit on the lid and poison the rest."

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.
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If you were curious and had the time, you might do an advanced search of the posts of different individuals here, the nature of their posts, and how others respond to them. The history of the two aforementioned posters would definitely juxtapose the extremes of the spectrum.

GWB

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Originally posted by Geedubya:
RCH

Threads have a natural life. If they go on for a while there is a reason. I believe this thread is not just about using blue dot powder, but also a commentary on different types of individuals. Some approach life with zest and joy, others remind me of the old saying, "get all you can, can all you get, sit on the lid and poison the rest".

A couple of observations.

I believe the original post concerned "blue dot" loads in 223 remington. I would hardly classify that as a "Large Bore" rifle cartridge.

Bobby Tomek is a known quantity on this forum. His posts are typically descriptive, knowledgeable, accurate and germane. His photography is first rate, (as he is a commercial photographer). Many times Bobby's posts will exhibit his brand of self deprecating humor. I believe this was the case in the original post. I do not believe he was trumpeting the indiscriminate use of blue dot powder across the reloading spectrum.

Hot Core is also a known quantity on this forum. I don't know him personally, and from reading his posts don't know that I would relish knowing him personally. Perhaps I have prejudged him due to the nature of his posts.
I've heard it said that you can ascertain a mans' nature by observing how he deals with folks that have absolutely no power to do him good or harm. A man that is magnanimous with employees and people less fortunate, or of lesser ability than he, versus one that deliberately takes advantage, to his own gain, of the unfortunate and downtrodden. Hot Core, by the nature of his posts reminds me of the latter.

As you have posted here for only a short while I might suggest that you do not have the 2, 5 or 10 year perspective of other posters that typically hold Hot Core in disdain.

If you were curious and had the time, you might do an advanced search of the posts of different individuals here, the nature of their posts, and how others respond to them. The history of the two aforementioned posters would definitely juxtapose the extremes of the spectrum.

GWB