Hi guys!

I currently own a 300 WM and am buying a new gun. I really like my 300 WM. I was looking at bumping up the velocity a bit and going to a 300 RUM but I don't think I can handle the recoil. What are your thoughts on the 300 WSM? From what I have seen and read it seems to be about 100 fps slower than the 300 WM(PS I reload). Does that seem right? I would look at purchasing the 300 WSM but it seems to be slower than the 300 WM and I don't want to give up any velocity! I would appreciate your opinion on any of the 300 WM, WSM or RUM!

Thanks

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Sorry, I didn't ask a clear question. My main question is whether or not the 300 WSM is slower than the 300 WM!

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i aint saying it cant happen,but dont see how a case that holds less powder and has a shorter bbl is faster.i get 3611 from a 150 sierra with 96 gr RL22 in my RUM,my brothers WM gets 3375 with 74 gr 4350 and the same bullet.i aint even seen the WSM so i cant coment on it.but i would geuss it is really closer to a hot 30-06 than a WM.but i could be wrong.recoil with the RUM is there but if you can handle full house 300 WM loads then you should be able to take it.

A friend of mine has the 300 WSM Featherweight, so far the ballistic performance hasn't been overly impressive(very good for a short action, not a magnum).

I doubt you can load the WSM to the same velocities as the Win Mag.

[This message has been edited by Bill (edited 07-26-2001).]

I have the following .30 calibre rifles which i load for: .30-30, .308 Win, .30-06, .300 WSM and .300 WIn Mag. Of the bunch, the .300 WSM and and .308 Win are my favorites.

With careful handloading in each, the WSM is 100 fps slower than the Win Mag with bullets fo equal weight. I find no disadvantage. The energy and killing effect of the WSM is more than sufficient for game in its class (everything in NA short of brown bear) out to 400 yards. The trajaectory advantage of the Win Mag amounts to about 2" at 400 yards, or about 25 yards of additional sure killing range. I find that inconsequential.

The WSM carries easier and lighter, and mounts quicker, with its 24" barrel and short action. It burns less powder, which means more barrel life. Recoil is noticeably lighter. Altogether a better hunting package than the Win Mag.

The accuracy is also better. The Win 180 PP factory load shoots well within 1 MOA. My favorite handloads shoot under 3/4 MOA, including 200 gr SBT and 150 gr SST. Cases are on their 11th reload.

I sold my Win Mag after i got the WSM. But if you are hung up on maximum velocity for whatever reason, the WSM is slower than the Win Mag.

I also find the .308 Win superior to the .30-06 within its range of deer and black bear and hogs. Again it is more accurate, handles faster, lighter to tote all day, and has sufficient killing power and trajectory out to 400 yards.

For the one-gun hunter the WSM is absolutely the best choice. Up north maybe 25 yards of extra range is important, so keep the Win Mag. But I have not heard any great hosannas sung about the RUM cartridge. In my opinion, that level of energy is a waste in .30 calibre and ought to go into a bigger bore like the .338
.

Canaduck....if you want a short-action that will meet and/or exceed the 300 WinMag take a look at the new Savage in the Lazzeroni Patriot. Shorter and fatter than the WSM and will deliver.

All summed up, I take the 06, and the High Energy from Federal for bigger stuff. Mine groups Federal Premium 180 grs NPart together with High Energy 180 grs NPart.

Even less powder than a WSM, same bbl length, perhaps 1/2" longer action??

I presume the 06 has one definite disadvantage:

Everybody and his brother has one, it�s not new, and what would the gun rags write about?

Good shooting! H

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Canaduck, If you want to go faster you will most likely have to go bigger. The recoil from the 300 RUM is not that bad. Mine has a decelerator recoil pad and is no problem off the bench. The other thing is that if you reload you don't have to load up to the max, back off abit and you will still be able to out perform the 300 Win.

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Growler

I'm with Kuduking. If you are looking for more gun than the 300WM, go with the .338

You know, I have been using a .300 H&H, Winchester Model 70, 24" barrel for the past 30 years or so. For deer, I used the 165 Nosler Partition and for elk the 180 Speer Grand Slam. The velocities are about 3250 and 3000 FPS, respectively with IMR4350 medium hot loads.

I have killed quite a few deer with it over the years at ranges from 75 yards to 350 yards and with a lung shot not one deer has failed to die within a few seconds and within 15 yards of where he was hit. Most dropped where they stood.

The case has a long neck and gentle shoulder for assisting in the accurate handloading process. The caliber was the 1000 yard par excellence, (score) record holder for many years. Actually, most .300WM have identical ballistics with 24" barrels and the new Winchester short magnum is slightly under.
I would not feel under gunned against the Weatherby or Ultra mags except at long range of over 400 yards, where I won't take a shot anyhow, or maybe against bears with heavy bullets. Since I do not hunt Grizzly Bears, I do not feel the need to have anything more than 3000 FPS with a 180 grain bullet.

Some information on the 300 WSM
- 180gr PPT, Win factory - 2942fps
- 180gr FS, Win factory - 2955fps
- 150gr Balistic Silver Tip factory- 3253fps

- 180gr FS, reload - 3021fps
- 150gr Nosler Balistic Tip,reload- 3391 fps

I really like shooting this rifle. I will be taking it for stone sheep in September. Rifle is a Browning Composite Stalker with a 23"bbl, weighs 6.5lbs and shoots like a lazer. 3 shot 180gr largest group - .75". 3 shot 150gr largest group - .63". 5 shot groups at 300yds largest 3.23".

...Peter

Peter, I have the same rifle as you. My readings are;
Factory load 180 psp av 2998, best group 1.00"
Factory 150 bal silv tip Av 3229 best group .995
Handloads, right now I'm concentrating on the 165 hornady sst the fastest so far is at 3105 fps with 68.0 grains of AA4350. This laod showed no pressure so I'm sure I can get 3150-3200 out of it. The 68.0 grain load went into a .610 3 shot group.

I too am very happy with this rifle. It meets and may exceed what the folks at winchester/Browning said it would.

As far as doubting that less powder can go as fast as more in a longer case, I too found it hard to believe. Look back at the PPC cartridges, and the .308 winchester. These outperformed what they SHOULD be unable to do. The .308 uses less powder to go the same velocity that an 06 does all the time. Short fat powder columns burn more efficiently than long skinny ones. Notice also that the WSM uses powders of medium burn rate.

I just got some 180 Horn sst's., but haven't had the chance to load and test them. Tough decision whether to go with the 165, or 180 for whitetails. I'm waiting for my present scope to get back from Tasco either fixed or replaced, or the funds to get what will stay on there, probably a Leupold vari x 111 4.5 x 14 AO Matte. Wideners has it for $410.00

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if you run, you just die tired

Hey Robbnsc,

I can't bare to see you suffering with such an antique caliber as the 300 H&H. You poor sod. I feel it is my noble duty to take it off your hands for a small pittance, that way you can get yourself a "real" 30 magnum. Those poor deer you killed with it over the years must have truly suffered for at least a microsecond or two.

Seriously, it's amazing how many poeple feel that way. The 300 H&H is everything you need in a 30 cal magnum, the rest of them are trying to re-invent the wheel. It's all sales hype. Besides, the new squirts just don't have the class of a vintage H&H, and they never will.

With identical bullets there isn't but a few inches difference in drop between any of them at 400, or even 500 yards. If you can hit it with a 300 Ultra, you can hit it with a 300 H&H, and the deer, antelope, ground hog, or whatever will NEVER KNOW the difference.

It's amazing that some guys just don't understand that. They will spend $1000 bucks or more for a new hunting rifle, dies, more expensive brass and burn a disproportionate amount more powder, for VERY little difference in trajectory. And feel that they have something truly better. ? I guess I don't get it.

One of my hunting buddies has a 300 Norma that he's had for almost 40 years. 40 years later the Ultra arrives on the scene. There isn't enough difference between them to spit at. When you're measuring drop by the feet, (at 500 yds), 3,4, or even 6 inches difference is invisible. Give me a break.

I'm sorry for "ranting", but at least be honest guys and admit that you got pulled in by hype.

If you can't hit it with an H&H, you won't hit it with an Ultra. Period. Deal with it.

I am an honest guy, and I didn't get pulled in by hype. If that was the case I would have bought a 300 ultra last year. I took one look at how much powder it took to do what they claimed and said heck no! I also said no to needing 30 inches of barrel to get the velocity they claimed.

I didn't have a 30 caliber anything. As long as I was going to get a 30 something I thought this would make a good choice. I think I was right. With the junk remington has been putting out I doubt the SAUM Is going to be much competition, accuracy wise anyway.

The WSM is NOT about hype or false claims. It is a short LIGHT 30 magnum rifle made for mountain hunting or long hikes on the flats.

The long gentle shoulder of the 300 H&H is a good thing for handloaders? News to me for sure. I've always heard a sharp shoulder was better for controling headspace. Also that gentle shoulder allows the brass to flow so easily that cases need trimming after every reload. I have yet to trim my cases for my WSM after 3 firings on some of them.

It seems that lots of people have made up their mind they won't be freinds with the new kid on the block. Fine, don't buy one. Win-browning can't make rifles fast enough the keep up with demand.

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if you run, you just die tired

bigbores,i didnt get pulled in by anything.i wanted a 30 magnum,in a 700 BDLSS.the win.mag is what i had on order for a month but since they started making the ultra you can not find a new rem. win mag,and i would have been just as happy with an H-H but i doubt you can find one listed in the rem. catalouge.so i got the ultra not really knowing what to expect,what i got was one heck of a gun.if i cant kill it any more dead than a norma or H-H then why can they kill it any more dead than my ultra.it is just more of a good thing.i dont care how much powder it burns or how much it kicks all i care about is performance,and 3611 in half inch groups in my opinion is performance.

Did Winchester ever settle on a case size for that .300 WSM? I've heard they changed it twice since it was introduced.

These are all good rounds. One point I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the size bullets you plan to shoot. Sure, in handloads a .308 pretty much stays with a .30-'06 -- until you get up to around 180-grain bullets. Same is true for the magnum .30s: case capacity matters more when you shoot heavier bullets.

I've had a .300 Win Mag for years, and it will probably stay my primary hunting rifle, but I recently picked up a .300 RUM. Why? I got tired of running into big bears on float hunts for moose, and wanted a flat-shooting rifle better equipped to handle them. The RUM shoots 200-grain bullets at almost the velocity the Win Mag throws 165-grainers. (I've got to 3200 fps with no pressure signs.) But it's too heavy to go up a mountain with me.

Personally, I can't see any reason why someone shooting 165-or-smaller-grain bullets would want a RUM. But we all hunt in different circumstances, and have different tastes in firearms.

Jim

I have one for you, how about a
300 RUM Ackley Improved? For me, a RUM is too much over bore on a .30 cal barrel, but for some enterprizing individuals, i guess it wasn't enough. That ought to get some one hopping.

Good article in the most recent "Handloader" magazine (August-September) by John Barnsness about the 300 WSM and it includes load data. Ironically, Ken Waters' feature artcle this issue is on revisiting the 300 Wby Mag. Both good reads if you can find the magazine at a local stand.

redleg

P.S. I've only glanced at the 300 WSM article so I can only trust that it's a good read as most everything that comes from Barnsness is.

Getting back to the original question. The 300 Win Mag is definitely faster than the 300 WSM. Within pressure constraints you are looking at about 3250fps w/ 150gr, 3100fps w/ 165gr and 2950fps w/ 180gr with the 300 WSM and a 23" barrel. If that isn't fast enough for you than you can rule out the 300 WSM. Of course you can exceed these velocities if you have a longer barrel or exceed the pressure boundaries.

I recently bought a 300 WSM and have quickly grown very fond of it and think it is a real winner. I just wish it liked 165 gr Scirocco's as well as it likes 150 Nosler BT's.

Unless there's something wrong with your .300 Win, I'd say that it's like Goldilock's experience in the three bears house: The 300 RUM is too much, the 300 WSM is too little, but the .300 Win is "just right".

Keep shooting your .300 Win on everything from deer through moose, and spend your "new gun" money on maybe a coyote or varmint rifle, or target rifle, or whatever you don't have but wish you did.

i agree with stonecreek 100 %.if you done got a win mag you will never need the other 2.i didnt have either,and really wanted the win. version but couldnt get one in the gun i wanted.it seems that just cause i got the ultra everybody thinks i cant shoot or have an ego problem.all that may be true,but i will bet you i wont miss many times at the 400 yard line.

Canaduck,
Just a thought you might consider what I did I prefer to shoot 180 part in my 300 Win so when I wanted a rifle with a little more snut I picked up 338 win and shoot the 210 Nosler at over 3000ft sec and loading 225 part at 2920 250 part at 2817 and thats enough for anything on this shelf.
Old Timer