Friends:

I was a poster here many years ago, back in the beginning, but drifted away. Just came back. Note many changes in the website and it's proliferation. Too lots of progress in the gun industry.

In the week or so that I have been back I note quite a conspicuous curiosity of re-loaders about various calibers, cartridges, bullets, powders, loads, but an apparent lack of satisfactory loading data for a variety of the guns that shoot a rather broad range of calibers with a very broad range of powders and bullets. Lots left to be desired as it pertains to answers for loads that are not readily available in print. So, in the interest of safety, accommodation, progress and personal interest, I'm now into researching some availability of products. Further, I'm now into schooling my grandson so the benefits will be his and your grandsons too as well as our future fellow shooters.
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Not to limit, but here's some input about available options for measuring chamber pressure.

#1. Software: Powley computer *( free ). Quick Load $152.

#2. Hardware. Tape on strain gauges. Quite a selection and various prices.

https://www.google.com/search?..........0.vHiSrLDeEWQ

#3. Not a good option but chronograph and ballistics calculators to back into guesstimates from extrapolated data..
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So what's your preference ?

Theoretical calculations.
Physical readings.
Other methods.

The aspect of cost also looms in the evaluation. What are you willing to spend. And can it be justified ?
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I have the external ballistics software which I used all the time. I used the Powley internal ballistics, but frankly my loading is conventional and I already have all the CUP pressure data for my guns.

It's still a bit too early/premature in my endeavors with my Grandson but it is highly likely that I will soon order the Quick Load software and thereafter consider acquiring the tape on strain gauges. My Grandson completed his first year of college in a high end engineering school and he is very much a hands on guy and very enthusiastic shooter. He is currently employed at a shot gun shooting range near his home, as available, and is continuing his education.

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Input please.

Whaddya think? What's your interest ? Your experience. Your recommendation,Your opinion ?

wetibbe,

Welcome back to AR. I am always interested in learning new loading info. For me, a chronograph and safe loading technique has proven to be adequate. The Quick Load software and strain gauges while interesting, seem unnecessary for my use. If I were building guns from scratch, these items would be mandatory I believe. The chronograph tells me if I am over expected velocity, I am getting into higher than necessary pressures, even if the brass shows no pressure signs.

Reloading is kind of a do dad sport. There are all kinds of gauges, neck turning devices, measuring devices, runout gauges, ect that are available if you feel the need. I you feel you need more than the basic equipment,by all means use all you want.

For me, I have two Dillons, an old RCBS press, electronic and beam scales, case vibrator, case trimmer, calipers and the necessary dies that I can load high quality ammo with.

AR is a great resource for us to share info with folks of all skill levels.

Good luck with your grandson on your adventure into reloading.

Thanks guys conjointly.

I value each opinion.

FYI I'm going ahead and ordering the Quick Load software today.

For the "tape on" strain gauges - it's still in the exploration stage.

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

Any further opinions/experience solicited as to recommendations, value, preference are solicited.

I think that we all want to explore any shadows, deficiencies, unanswered questions and be able to respond to our fellow shooters questions accurately and satisfactorily.

If the pressure units is in CUP then the copper crusher method is used...if in PSI then the piezoelectric method is used as it is a PITA to convert from one to the other precisely. I do have a conversion formula I use sometimes to check the formula and the software output...it stays within ~10% most of the time and it is available online if you're interested...
under "CUP to PSI conversion".

Piezoelectric methods are perfected pretty much and is used by all the ballistics producing companies. It still uses certain mathematical algorithms', the pressure sensors have to be calibrated, positioned and software used to convert the electrical impulses to f/s...AND...is relatively expensive and not needed even for the very experienced unless you are developing new commercial products or just really deep into experimentation.

I wanted to have a setup many times but cost was prohibitive for my level of experimentation so if I needed any pressure data I sent the cartridges to White Labs...a MUCH cheaper way to get data.

QL or the other top rated software along with safe loading practices will get you very close to actual chamber pressures.

Luck

quote:

If the pressure units is in CUP then the copper crusher method is used...if in PSI then the piezoelectric method is used as it is a PITA to convert from one to the other precisely. I do have a conversion formula I use sometimes to check the formula and the software output...it stays within ~10% most of the time and it is available online if you're interested...under "CUP to PSI conversion".

You had better watch it there are some here that would call those fighting words.

There is no exact "conversion" from one to the other as best I know. However there is a "correlation" between the two. It is simply a plot of various cartridges that have both a cup and psi. Then a best fit line is drawn through the data and the formula of that line give you the "correlation".

Sorry it is snowing and I'm bored. As was stated the "correlation" will probably get you within the 10%.

I had the OLD strain gauge set up. Unless you are really into data (or simply like to play and have big $$) I see no reason to fool with a strain gauge. I use QL and observation and it gets me as close as I need to get.

I have used Quickload for years and love it!
Like most other things it is a "crap in = crap out" interface.
So if folks like dpcd thinks it's useless then i suspect that he is a "crap" in sort of guy.

If you measure actual case capacity the program will predict muzzle speed to within of a couple of %. And if that is spot on then i see no reason why pressure would be way off.

QL does not fare to well with Trailboss powder if you go to extremes but apart from that i have yet to find a cartridge where it is "wrong" in any way.

As for the straingauge thing, if it floats your boat, then go for it, but i see no reason for it. If you have to load a cartridge so close to the edge then you just might have chosen to small a caliber ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:
If the pressure units is in CUP then the copper crusher method is used...if in PSI then the piezoelectric method is used as it is a PITA to convert from one to the other precisely. I do have a conversion formula I use sometimes to check the formula and the software output...it stays within ~10% most of the time and it is available online if you're interested...
under "CUP to PSI conversion".

Piezoelectric methods are perfected pretty much and is used by all the ballistics producing companies. It still uses certain mathematical algorithms', the pressure sensors have to be calibrated, positioned and software used to convert the electrical impulses to f/s...AND...is relatively expensive and not needed even for the very experienced unless you are developing new commercial products or just really deep into experimentation.

I wanted to have a setup many times but cost was prohibitive for my level of experimentation so if I needed any pressure data I sent the cartridges to White Labs...a MUCH cheaper way to get data.

QL or the other top rated software along with safe loading practices will get you very close to actual chamber pressures.

Luck

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Very interesting. I'm taking time to digest. In the interim can you relate to the tape on barrel method. Are we on the same page ?

True to promise I have placed an order for the Quick Load software today which will ship soon and be available to my fellow shooters. It should be available next week.

Prepare your questions. The fee schedule is as follows:

1. Answers - $1.00
2. Answers that require some thought-$2.00
3. Correct answers $5.00

Tape or solder(probably not used much now) depending on which brand is used. You list RSI probably one of the best...Kitchen Table Gunsmith has a nice article for DIY.

Your fee schedule is a bit optimistic...Yes???

Nothing is absolute in this game only approximate and ONLY for one shot...the next shot will have produce different numbers...basically the reason that software programs produce numbers that are "plenty good" for "Govmnt work" and many shots are fired to obtain a statistically accurate conclusion.

Luck

quote:

3. Correct answers $5.00

I once saw a poster in a garage that said; Hourly rate; $20. If you watch; $30. If you help; $50.

The ball is in my grandsons court. If I go the strain gauge route it won't be for me. Fortunately I do have the bucks to invest in something that will yield return in some form.

He is part time employed by a small, exotic engineering company developing a new form of energy. He works with all sorts of advanced technology and builds pilot plants by hand. The job at the shooting range is a temp, infill, waiting government funding and approvals to go ahead. His company guaranteed him a job upon graduation.

I note all of the arguments, pros, cons and I generally agree. As an old timer, back in those days we didn't have money nor all of the technology. We got along just fine by our wits and expertise. This is a different world today.

The way it works now: Favored grandson makes the decision - Grandpa picks up the tab !

welcome back!

have or have had various chronoz, quickload (various versions) TONS of load books, sent ammo to be pressure tested and the rsi pressure trace..

I learned that
1: the last 100fps is the most expensive
2: no critter can tell 100 fps
3: only when WAY out on the edge of the envelope (that part changes) was it very important
4: since double rifles require knowing pressure at a lower tolerance than a bolt gun, i learned valuable data for my 550 flanged -- and this was the most important data i gathered from my rsi

i have since sold the pressure trace... will likely buy another better one in a couple years