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Doc, good luck in Wyoming! I'm coming into Jackson Hole on the 24th; if we do well, I'll also spend some time in Lander with my friend and his wife (she's a family practice doc there). Our schedules probably won't come anywhere near, but let me know if you'd like to have a beer. BTW, if you ever want to sell that rig, I'd LEARN to shoot left-handed! friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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Uhhh, nno. Funny you mention selling it. I kinda sorta offered it to my New Brunswick bear guide and he himhawed about it. I'll have to RETRACT my offer. We were thinking of a couple of bear hunts in trade for the rifle. We leave Cincinnati on Friday the 23rd at about 5pm. 24 hour drive for us to Casper. God willing, we'll tag our bucks day one and leave, but Les wants to buy doe tags OTC and do some killing. Ultimately we all took off until Sunday a week later. We're staying at the Super 8 in Casper, I think it's on the west end of town. I'm sure Casper has beer.  VarmintGuy: I guess I've been in a dark room. I didn't know there were Remmy/Leup. bashers. Every hunting rifle I own except 1 is a Remmy/Leupold combo. I have the 1 Ruger/Hart bbl. but it still wears a Leup. I have a .270 AM on the way and it will be sporting a NightForce 5.5x22.56 with the NPR-2 Reticle. 28" Lilja bbl, with 1-8" twist for the 169.5 grain Wildcat bullet. Jewell trigger set to my favorite 1 pound. ON to today's range results. Unfortunately, my wife left our camera at Melissa's house in her daughter's "cheer" bag. (our girls are Hornet cheerleaders). But I'll post pics tomorrow. Here's what happened. I DID NOT GET ANOTHER 1 HOLER, DANG IT. But, I did get a 1/2" incher right after I moved the scope. I was dead on at 100 the other day so I clicked it up for around 2" high at 100. Shot from bags and got 2 touching, then I pulled a 3rd a tad high. Oh well, I would have killed whatever I hit. Then I popped on the bipod and shot 4. I sat on the ground and punched 4 in a row and grouped about an inch. You'll see the target when the spouse retrieves our camera tomorrow. Then we backed the target up to 200. Shot from seated position/bipod again. Pulled off 2 rounds and they were a little low, still about an inch. That was all I needed to see. I really had a lot of work to do with the muzzleloader. But, the 7 mag is definitely going to WY. I'll go to a farm where I hunt, in KY Thursday and see where I'm hitting at 300-400 and 450 with the bipod. As for the muzzleloader, I will praise Knight rifles. I bought a Revolution and had problems with it 2 weeks ago. Sent it back to Knight 2 Fridays ago. Called them yesterday regarding status. Sam, in Warranty, informed me there was no way to fix it and get it to me in time for WY. Bummer. So, he sent me the new Knight disc extreme camo/stainless at no extra charge ($631 value) next day air. Got it today. 150 grains of Pioneer (3 sticks) and the new Barnes/Knight 285 boat tail sabot: 1" group at 100 for 3 and 3" high. At 200, about 1/2" low and 3.2" group. I tried 2 other bullets and Triple 7 and regular Pyrodex pellets. I tried 100 and 150 grains with each bullet all at 100 and 200. In all cases the 150 grain charge worked best. However, the Pioneer pwdr wins hands down. The 777 did ok but not what I expected. Oh, well, Muzzleloading is something I do and am not too worried about the details, just accuracy. With those groups, I'll take a shot at a goat to 250. I'll be testing it in KY also to that distance. I wonder if I would have had another 1 hole group with the 7 mag if I hadn't cleaned the bbl after my last range session. Oh well, I can live with the half-incher for today. It may actually be less, didn't measure it. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Sounds like it might be a little too far, doc, both in time and space, but you never know, especially if we finish early and you finish late. If you like, PM me and I'll give you my #. And your drive--uugh! Right now I'm scheduled to fly NW--God willing! We'll see... friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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Sorry no,I assure you that all targets were shot at 100 and 200 yds.The reason there are some shot with different powders is comparing one load to another.If you notice all were shot using either a sst or shock wave bullet( which really is the same bullet,jst one has a red tip and the other has a yellow tip)When they group together it tells me I am getting very close to the same speed with each load. Know what you mean pulling the last one,the more you think about it and harder you try causes you to pull it most every time.The example below shows just that,the top right hole was with a clean barrel,the bottom left I thought for sure that it was going to the same place the other four did,but you can see I tried too hard.The next 3 were shot at 200 yds in a 1.687 in group.Not going to say what it did at 300 yds.  | |||
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OK, here's a Northwest Airlines update. I was talking to our pilots at Great Lakes Airlines from Denver to Chadron, NE last month (my archery antelope hunt). These guys start off flying these puddle jumpers, then move up. All 4 pilots grimmaced when I mentioned Northwest as a possible future job. Apparently, and according to them, NW is hurting THE MOST financially, has the oldest fleet, and a terrible service record on their planes. All heresay of course. Probably just a rumor. But I still fly with them a LOT for my conferences.  I'll PM you. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Owensby: That is a textbook group for sure. You will catch yourself looking and thinking about the little group so then you say ok clear your mind and start over and crap look what happens. And of course all the groups where you have 3 in one hole and then 2 off to the side into another hole? I have always blamed this on not repeating the same way when I reset my gun in the bags. Or maybe I just suck. | |||
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One-holer, I'm still waiting for you to clue me in on getting consistent one hole groups. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Doc: The last I heard Norm was picking you up and you guys were heading for the range. How did things go? You probably stuck'em in the same hole again and are waiting to give us all some lessons. I have to jump a plane in the morning so I was hoping to see what happened before lights out. | |||
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You didn't read my post then. I wrote what happened, but Melissa STILL has our camera. AND she just dropped off my daughter and forgot it again. They live 2 minutes away and I have to head to the store, maybe I can get it. Ok, here they are: First target it with my typical sandbags. Second target is Bipod at 100 for 4 shots seated position. Those are the 4 high. The 2 low are seated with bipod at 200. I guess that's the best I can do.   Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I don't see any ass-shoot'en going on here. I think your gun likes the sand bag. I found your bipod shots interesting. When you say sitting position does this mean on the ground or sitting off the top of the bench? Off the bench, have you put a level on the bench? Is it level? Was your bipod level or did you have some cant introduced is what I'm getting at? Let me throw this out on the table and perhaps see why I was razzing DOC about three shot groups. With say a 5,10 or 20 shot group you get to see the interaction of the different components acting together that effect accuracy. You would get to see the guns potential accuracy, the shooters accuracy/or inaccuracy/the loads potential/ and the environmental conditions for that particular 5,10 or 20 shot group. It's just my opinion since I'm such an opinionated SOB that an 18 shot group would tell you much more than say 6 individual 3 shot groups. What are other peoples take on this? | |||
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I was sitting on the ground like I would be in the field and pulling the trigger as though an animal I was aiming at was about to run off. That is how I practice. Canting, nonlevel, who knows. I was in "hunting mode" and the bipod was on the grass and I slapped it down fast and hard just like I would in a hunting situation. Once I'm off the bags, I'm not playing anymore. I shoot just like I would in the field. No longer testing "accuracy." Just seeing how I do as a shooter. Now, I believe you are ignoring your offer and my request. Are you going to share your one hole technique or not?
Yea, and who's doesn't? I cannot recall any shots in my history when I mimic a hunting shot being better than a sandbag shot. I like the sandbag too when I'm testing loads. That's just how I do it. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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OK-Give me 5 shots from 50, 5 from 100 and 5 from 200 from the sandbag and we will get started. Before I return Monday and the hate mail is piled high I want to thank you for being a real sport about this. This should be a real leaning experience for us all. Last weekend with your 3 shot one hole group--You were the man. You were going to retire and join the olympics, everyone was shaking your hand, probably copying your load data down and wanting to buy your magic stick. In reality though these last groups are more of a true indication of what is going on. So all the wiggles and giggles aligned up right and you got a flute one hole 3 shot group--big deal. What we really want to look at is all the slop and where that slop is coming from. How bad a shot are we, how bad are our loads,how inaccurate is our gun, how bad were the conditions. So, to start out--do the 50-100-200. I want to see if you scope is on straight. Then stop shooting at 100 and 200 yards and only shoot at 50 yards until you learn to shoot properly. Lets see what happens. | |||
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Scope is supposed to be on straight. I paid a smith $75 to do it with his machine. Too late to do that much more shooting. I leave in a week and have too many reports that need to leave my desk for attorneys before I go. Have to pick it up when we return. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Say, get of the blokes back. No one thought he could do it all the time. So, if a driver wins a F1 race should he be ignored because he didn't win the last one and may not win the next. Though I will admit, posts of our worst groups would be quite interesting. One-holer to go first.  John L> | |||
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Yes, that'll do for hunting. And Fish is correct, Bal Tips are the wrong bullet. | |||
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Don't screw with anything! Oustanding groups Doc. | |||
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Well, go figure....I drive to KY yesterday to check my brother's 270 and my 7mag at 300-400 yards. I'm shooting across an alfalfa field, laying in the bed of my truck. My brother's 270 with the 110 TSX is 1" high at 100, dead on at 200, 4" low at 300, and 10" low at 400. I shot a 2" group at 300 and it was only a 3.2" group at 400. I put up only one target with a center bullseye. I shot his, then drove up to it and simply flipped it over for my rifle. At 300, I shoot a 1" group, 2 touching.  At 400, I pulled my first shot because the target had blown over and instead of taking everything out of the bed, I walked there and back so I was breathing hard upon my first shot, which I pulled to the right. So, I DROVE to the target, and sure enough, I hit 2" right, and I was 14" low. I got everything set back up in the bed and tried again. 3 shots felt good at 400. 2.7" group. For now, I can live with that.  What I didn't like was the fact that it was 91 degrees and no shade. BBL's got hot quick and stayed that way. Low and behold, I leave the target stapled to the box and layed it face down, placed a second box in it and then put my stapler and staples in it to weight it down. About 10 miles from the river heading north on I-75 I catch something in the rearview mirror. The target blew out! Somehow, the boxes slid way up to the cab and the target pulled from the staples. I had intended on taking a pic and showing it to my brother so he'd know what his rifle is doing. Now, I have to go do it again tomorrow. That's ok, I'll just have to bowhunt that afternoon.  Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Hey Doc Went to the range today and this is my Beretta Mato with 180 TSX's. Guess I found my hunting load also   These are 4 shot groups. The first shot was with a recently cleaned gun and was out about an inch high right. That 2nd group was all one hole and same POI of the 200 gr TSX that I normally shoot. Gotta love those TSX's ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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Great. Now go kill something!! Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Well, I'm not up to your standards yet Doc, but these were the first groups out of my recently rebarreled 700 SA, in .250-3000. I'll start fine tuning later.  The bullet silhouette on the right is from an AK shooting 150 gr loads. 100 meters BTW, his target 12' right of mine.  If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky? | |||
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GREAT grouping.. you still missed the dime!!!  wonder how the gun would shoot with a hunting bullet just kidding, shoot whatever bullet you are good with opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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That dime sure does look big next to that tiny hole! | |||
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One-holer can you tell me what I did wrong here?I honestly did try hard to get them in one hole.  | |||
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