The Accurate Reloading Forums
So my friend put a primer in the cavity of a hollow tip...
16 August 2007, 07:46
trashcanmanSo my friend put a primer in the cavity of a hollow tip...
He has a glock 21 in 45 acp. He placed a magnum rifle primer in the cavity of a hollow point facing backwards so that when the bullet impacts something it fires into the bullet causing disruption. then he filled in epoxy over the primer to seal it off from the elements and keep the primer from falling out. So what do you think will happen? I have no idea and warned him not to do so but Im curious and hardly like the guy so ill watch... way... way behind him.
16 August 2007, 08:04
SnellstromI would be somewhat surprised if anything noticeable happens. You'll hear all kinds of horror stories I'm sure but I seriously doubt the effect will be perceptable.
Just like a hundred wives tales I've had to "try" in my youth and young adulthood, shooting at a loaded rounds primer, ammo in the campfire, peeing into the wind.........you know all that stuff.
16 August 2007, 08:17
Joshua43214I've never seen it done, but I know that primers make a god awful amount of noise when set off outside a case, so it should make some good bang at the end.
.45 travels slow enuogh that you should easily be able to hear it over the pistol itself at 25' or more.
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16 August 2007, 08:25
GSP7Tell him to make another, but drill out the bullet and add some red dot then epoxy the primer in
16 August 2007, 10:31
fredj338quote:
Originally posted by GSP7:
Tell him to make another, but drill out the bullet and add some red dot then epoxy the primer in
There are stories of old timers doing this w/ 45cal. lead HP rifle bullets. Fill the cav. w/ a pinch of FFFg BP & a primer in place on top. A bit too scary for this non Darwinian.
LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT!
16 August 2007, 10:39
MacifejA whole lot of nothing is going to happen except that you've now manufactured an NFA explosive device. If you happen to live in Californiastan you've comitted a felony. Boys will be boys.
16 August 2007, 10:58
wildboarDrilling a bullet can be dangerous; I've read that, if the jacket doesn't envelop the bottom of the bullet, there is a risk that only the core is shot, letting jacket debris in the barrel.
16 August 2007, 11:07
MacifejThat we be a big not likely WildBoar. Many pistol and some rifle bullets have no jacket at the base.
16 August 2007, 11:16
DavaaThis reminded me of a National Geographic program on modern armors. It showed about reactive armor plates that detonate reverse explosion upon impact by a round to decrease penetration. So I thought that the primer detonates at impact blowing to opposite way of bullet travel. So penetration may suffer significantly. This is just my thought.
16 August 2007, 11:18
trashcanman"A whole lot of nothing is going to happen except that you've now manufactured an NFA explosive device. If you happen to live in Californiastan you've comitted a felony"
Oh dang now his Glock 21 is dangerous... Nevermind the bullets, hes got primers!
16 August 2007, 11:21
MacifejIn terms of pure physics yes but get your calculator out and do the relativaty shuffle. The little primer will have an insignificant impact on terminal energy and penetration.
What's happening in Mongolia?
16 August 2007, 12:42
boom sticki would put the primer in so it will travel backwards and put a steel b-b over the primer and then glue...if there is room or room can be made some "lil gun"
the bb will ensure detonation and maybe have a fragmenting round...
now sign this waver saying you will never do this and this is mere speculation.
_______________________________________
16 August 2007, 15:05
meteThis kind of trick has been tried a long time ago .It didn't work then and won't work now !!
16 August 2007, 16:17
arkypeteHad a friend, who drilled out a 45 cal 400 grain cast bullet nose and installed a 22 long rifle round in it.
He thought it was exciting when it hit a 4 by 4 block.
Jim
"Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas Jefferson
16 August 2007, 16:25
p dog shooterI made a lot of these in the early 80's after i started putting a number 9 shot under the primer I would get them to go off every shot.
The best ones would use about .5 grs of very fine black powder a number 9 shot then the primer.
They are very stable the only thing that really happens when shot is that they cause the bullet to expand rapidedly decreaseing the amount of penitration.
I shot several varmints with them and really didn't see much differants over a very good hollow point.
It was kind of interisting when shooting them with electrionc ears muffs on you could hear them go off after hitting something solid.
I used mostly 357 mag 125 gr remington bullets.
After lots of testing and goofing off with them I found that the were not worth the trouble. I I haven't made any for 20 some years.
16 August 2007, 17:11
El DeguelloA primer, though quite powerful for its' size, does not have enough energy to really make a difference in the performance of the bullet. There is a reason why the military doesn't use explosive projectiles smaller than 20mm.....
"Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen."
16 August 2007, 21:07
Paul BMany years ago, when I had access to a lathe, I drilled out some 500 gr. .45 caliber cast bullets to take a .22 Short black powder blank cartridge. Mucho fun shooting at hard objects like big rocks and junk abandoned cars. Never did get a chance to try one on game though. The few I shot into a soft clay bank pretty well disintgrated and left a nasty hole in the clay.
Paul B.
16 August 2007, 22:11
GrumulkinMany years ago, when I was an unsupervised teenage handloader, I drilled out the tips of 38 Special loads and put primers in the cavity thus made. I imagined I could hear a little pop when the bullet hit but altogether, it was fairly unimpressive.
17 August 2007, 08:33
ireload2quote:
Originally posted by El Deguello:
A primer, though quite powerful for its' size, does not have enough energy to really make a difference in the performance of the bullet. There is a reason why the military doesn't use explosive projectiles smaller than 20mm.....
Here is an explosive .50 cal used by the US. Apparently some countries think it is rude to kill personnel with explosive rounds but the US does not.
Mark 211 Quote
The official stance of the Norwegian Government is that the 12.7 mm MP round should not be used against personnel. It is being exported strictly in an anti-materiel capacity. The current U.S. policy (the United States has not signed the St. Petersburg Declaration) is that the ammunition is suitable for use against all targets.
17 August 2007, 08:46
trashcanmanDamn ireload... I need to get me some RX51-PETN!
17 August 2007, 08:48
MacifejIt doesn't really matter what the projectile construction is if the target is bipedal. Any round from a BMG will cause catastrophic target damage.
17 August 2007, 20:30
grizzEarly on in my reloading life, I messed around with exploding ammo in 45 colt. The big 250 Hornady HP was drilled in a lathe to accept a muzzle loading #11 cap. I drilled deep enough to allow room for some powder. I tried FFFg black powder, and some reclaimed blank ammo powder from '06 blanks. These were fired in my Ruger blackhawk at various media., Concrete always caused it to pop,(backstop for 600 yd pits, fired from 100 yds). Soft dirt had about a 50% detonation rate. I shot some into a big tree section on the endgrain, the resulting hole had smoke curling out of it!
Something neat to try once! Since it's been pointed out that it is likely illegal, it's not good to do. I doubt they could be made to reliably detonate on a flesh and blood target.
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17 August 2007, 21:59
4570ForeverTo: El Deguello - "... military doesn't use explosive projectile smaller than 20mm."
I believe the Geneva Convention outlaws "expanding/explosive" projectiles under a certain caliber to preclude their use in antipersonnel weapons. I don't have personal knowlege of the specifics, but explosive projectiles are allowed for anitmaterial applications, as suggested by ireload2.
Someone out there with more knowledge than I might shed more light on the Geneva Convention provisions.
quote:
Admin New PM!
26 August 2007, 10:21
The MazIIRC the NFA allows up to 1/4 oz of explosive in a projectile before it's a DD. Not 100% sure though, so someone may want to double-check this one.
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27 August 2007, 00:03
akalininquote:
Originally posted by trashcanman:
Damn ireload... I need to get me some RX51-PETN!
PETN = Penta Erythritol Tetra-Nitrate. A nitrated 5 carbon sugar, PETN used to be used as a nitrate for angina, but has been unavailable since the mid-90's when the FDA mysteriously took it off the market. PETN is also used in surface to air missles.
I'm not sure what the RX-51 designation means. Could it be a permutation of 'RDX'?
27 August 2007, 00:10
Jim C. <><When I started reloading back in '65, I met a fellow who's dad was an avid loader and off shore fisherman who owned an original Springfield trap-door 45-70. They bored suitable nose cavities in the big lead slugs and filled the space with shaved off chemicals from match heads before plugging the hole with an upside down .22 case from which the bullet had been pulled. Used it to shoot sharks around their fishing boat!
Said it was only effective when the shark was very close to the surface and near the boat, a near verticle shot, but the explosive effect then was reported to be significant - at least to the shark!
10 September 2007, 09:54
Indlovubeg pardon,but they do, for the 50 BMG raufus round.Said to have destructive power similar to 20mm.
quote:
Originally posted by El Deguello:
A primer, though quite powerful for its' size, does not have enough energy to really make a difference in the performance of the bullet. There is a reason why the military doesn't use explosive projectiles smaller than 20mm.....
10 September 2007, 12:51
seafire/B17Gquote:
If you happen to live in Californiastan you've comitted a felony.
A felony is a violation of a federal law, not a state law.. even in California..
10 September 2007, 19:28
KSTEPHENSquote:
Originally posted by mete:
This kind of trick has been tried a long time ago .It didn't work then and won't work now !!
when you put a .177 bb on top of the primer then use a silicone sealant it does.
belive that.
11 September 2007, 16:26
jeffeossoquote:
Originally posted by Macifej:
A whole lot of nothing is going to happen except that you've now manufactured an NFA explosive device. If you happen to live in Californiastan you've comitted a felony. Boys will be boys.
Might want to verify that, as I believe it requires a weight of "explosive" before it;s NFA, but I may be wrong.
A felony is NOT
only federal , it's a level of offense.. state laws can rank as felonies.. a federal felony, however, is a VERY bad thing.
saw wet phone books shot with 44mag like that.... confetti
12 September 2007, 10:10
Idaho Sharpshooterlook back in the 1900-era Winchester catalog for their explosive rounds for the 50-110 WCF. Basic HP 350gr bullet (iirc) with a black powder 22 short stuck in the cavity.
Rich
DRSS
12 September 2007, 20:42
KublaKhanquote:
A felony is a violation of a federal law, not a state law.. even in California..
Actually no...states have felony crimes as well, it's just a way to classify the severity of the crime and the attendant punishment for that crime.
From the California Penal Code:
17. (a) A felony is a crime which is punishable with death or by
imprisonment in the state prison. Every other crime or public
offense is a misdemeanor except those offenses that are classified as
infractions.
12 September 2007, 21:01
belawquote:
Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Just like a hundred wives tales I've had to "try" in my youth and young adulthood, shooting at a loaded rounds primer, ammo in the campfire, peeing into the wind.........you know all that stuff.
For the record, the warning about peeing into the wind IS NOT an old wives tale!
Don't ask me how I know.
13 September 2007, 14:41
raybassLOL don't pee in the campfire either
Straight shootin to ya
13 September 2007, 14:57
Edmondquote:
Originally posted by Indlovu:
beg pardon,but they do, for the 50 BMG raufus round.Said to have destructive power similar to 20mm.
quote:
Originally posted by El Deguello:
A primer, though quite powerful for its' size, does not have enough energy to really make a difference in the performance of the bullet. There is a reason why the military doesn't use explosive projectiles smaller than 20mm.....
Raufoss