Hi fellas-

This post is follow-up from January when I first started having problems with my PACT Professional XP chronograph. I think I posted about it back then. After a couple of failed attempts at remedying the situation over the phone, as well as having similar issues with a friend’s PACT XP, I decided to write them a letter and send it in for repairs. My letter describes the issue I was having (I got a little bitchy at the end, but I was frustrated at the time and money wasted):



I spent $13 to send my chronograph to PACT for evaluation/repair and they received it on February 4th. It then took 4 phone calls to Bruce (who NEVER returned my call, even though he promised to do so every time I spoke with him), $14.95 for return shipping, and 93 days (yes, I was counting) until they admitted the unit was faulty and finally shipped out a replacement on May 6th.



I was pleased to have the XP back because it has been holding up some of my load development in a couple of new rigs. I noticed that the sensors were different than the ones I had before, which were all black. The red color makes me think that maybe these are the IR (infrared) version. Also, the vertical supports for the skyscreens appear to be much stouter than the flimsy pieces of shit that the first one had. I don’t think I’ll have to duct tape these every time I use them like before. So far, so good.



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The Bow Test:

I’m going to attempt to stick some hogs with my bow on Monday, so I thought that slinging an arrow over the new Professionals XP would be a simple quick test. The first arrow registered 280.9 fps., then 114.5 fps(???), and finally 279.7 fps. And that was the last registered shot… 17 attempts later, many with varying angles and height over the top of the chronograph in both directions, did NOT yield another single reading with the bow! Grrrrr…


The Rifle Test:

Unlike my old neighbors, the new neighbors would probably frown upon me shooting high powered rifles in the backyard (something to do with “city limits” hogwash… haha), so I opted for a long barreled .22 rimfire with a CB round (subsonic… usually around 850 fps). Well, guess what? It did NOT register that either. Grrrrr… Frustrated, I gave up and just shot the bow until dark.

Then I decided that I should try it inside the house under the fluorescent kitchen lights. After all, that is how the lighting in many indoor ranges (both handgun and archery) is set up. I cracked the door and fired 6 rounds into a tree stump.



The whole time I did NOT get any readings back on the chronograph. After every two rounds, I would hit the “Go” button to try and advance it to the next string anyway. Then I got an error message reading “NO START SIGNAL DETECTED”, even though both cables were connected well and in the proper STOP/START sequence.



So I turned the chronograph off and then back on again. WHAT THE…????? All of the sudden strings #2, #3, and #4 magically appeared! Hmmmm… So I printed them out and the results are below. Apparently, I have one hot, but also very slow, .22 rimfire and CB ammo: High = 3245.3 fps (string #4); Low = 134.4 fps (string #3).





Now what the hell is going on??? Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong? Should I just give up??

Please respond with your thoughts […meanwhile I have to finish explaining to my new wife who is an E.R. intern at Charity Hospital and who just got home from pronouncing dead a 17 y.o. black male gunshot victim, why I have a rifle, a camera, and chronograph setup in the kitchen. Hahaha!! She’ll see in just a minute that it’s just another reason why she loves me! haha]

Thanks in advance!

is there currently a burn ban in the parish?

get a shooting chrony

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
is there currently a burn ban in the parish?

get a shooting chrony

"The Parish"... now there's a colorful group of people. The only thing that will be burning near Chalmette will be a hog's ass on Monday, if I have my way at least. As for anything else burning... I have no idea. I keep my hide in Orleans Parish most of the time and I'm not aware of any laws (whatsoever). Haha

A Shooting Chrony, huh? Back when I was just starting to sprout some fur on my twig 'n' berries, we used to shoot each other with paintballs. Occasionally, we'd check our speed over a cheap ol' Shooting Chrony. Looking back, that thing never missed a beat! That's more than I can say for the Cadillac model I got now... so far, it makes a better paper weight than a chronograph. I sure hope someone has a good suggestion (besides shooting the damn thing).

My older PACT has worked quite well, but I know of others who've had trouble with the newer PACT chronographs.

Who is making the BEST chronograph these days? Oehler no longer offers a non-professional model, I'm told.

Regards, AIU

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
My older PACT has worked quite well, but I know of others who've had trouble with the newer PACT chronographs.

Who is making the BEST chronograph these days? Oehler no longer offers a non-professional model, I'm told.


So buy the profesional model?

quote:

Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong?

Hey Kenati, Is that an extra "Key Hole" drilled through the Door???

Have you considered doing the shooting with the "Power ON"?

How about shooting "above" the Sensor Slot instead of the more difficult shot "next to" the Sensors and inside the Uprights???

quote:

The first arrow registered 280.9 fps., then 114.5 fps(???), and finally 279.7 fps. And that was the last registered shot… 17 attempts later, many with varying angles and height over the top of the chronograph in both directions, did NOT yield another single reading with the bow! Grrrrr…

Looks like it would be real difficult to hit anything with Shooting Form that bad. Surely it CAN'T BE a PACT problem!
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Hey Kenati, Any chance at all you could shoot a bit closer directly above the Sensor without hitting it? Maybe a piece of Masking Tape stretched from one side to the other about 60% of the way down from the Difjusor or Diffusor in SE USA Lingo. (Don't know what language Difjusor is.) And a Black Square on the Tape directly above the Sensor on the Masking Tape. Just aim at it and the Bullet "should" go just below it.

I can see where shooting down that hall has a real benefit when things go a bit goofey. That nice HUGE Beer Cooler to the left is in an Easily Assessable location.

But outside under the good old sky instead of Fluorescent Bulbs might help the Sensors - just a guess because I never tried a (mostly worthless) Chronograph inside.

Best of luck to you.

Bytheway, if you need some "Guesstimated Velocities", I'm considering opening a Company to do that for frustrated Chronograph owners. I feel sure I can get closer than some of your readings. But..., you ought to be able to guess closer than what you are getting too.

A lemon can be found in any man-made product. But unresponsive customer service is unforgivable.

quote:

I sure hope someone has a good suggestion (besides shooting the damn thing).

Perhaps you could sell it on Craigslist. (I won't advocate Ebay as they are totally anti-gun.) Then buy another brand. Or try the PACT customer dis-service route once again and pray for another, better trained, associate to offer a solution. I've heard some chrono's can be real quirky.

No flame, just trying to set the record straight. I know you said you were upset when writing that PACT love letter, but it doesn't take much research to know that a 220 Swift really is able to send a 50gr bullet at those speeds. Hell, my 22-250Rem hits the mid 3900's. And it has 5% less case capacity than the Swift. To be fair, it does have a 28" barrel. I'm sure it was your frustration showing through, that's all.

Thanks everyone for the responses so far.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Any chance at all you could shoot a bit closer directly above the Sensor without hitting it? Maybe a piece of Masking Tape stretched from one side to the other about 60% of the way down from the Difjusor or Diffusor in SE USA Lingo. (Don't know what language Difjusor is.) And a Black Square on the Tape directly above the Sensor on the Masking Tape. Just aim at it and the Bullet "should" go just below it.

So I actually have to shoot THROUGH the triangles and OVER the sensors? I can't just hold the rifle next to the sensors and let them extract the velocity figures by convection currents? Hmmmm... thanks for the help! Haha I'll actually give the black dot and tape thing a try this afternoon with direct light overhead. I while back I read somewhere that it can help to put a blue (or maybe it was white) sheet underneath the chronograph to help reflect light on the bottom of the diffusers. I also heard that Marie Laveau's House of Voodoo on Bourbon St. has a potion that might work as well.

No matter what, I should NOT have to go to extreme measures to get this damn thing to work. 3,000+ fps swings in velocity are unforgivable. That is unless you are trying to impress your friends on the forums and show them how your bad ass .22 rimfire shoots a CB cap at 3,145.3 fps.

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quote:

Originally posted by ONEFUZR2:No flame, just trying to set the record straight. I know you said you were upset when writing that PACT love letter, but it doesn't take much research to know that a 220 Swift really is able to send a 50gr bullet at those speeds. Hell, my 22-250Rem hits the mid 3900's. And it has 5% less case capacity than the Swift. To be fair, it does have a 28" barrel. I'm sure it was your frustration showing through, that's all.

Yeah, I guess I could have clarified that comment about the 220 Swift a little better. I was doing that from memory and meant a .220 Swift with Benchmark could not reach those velocities (according to the books). I was also shooting an 18" barrel at the time. At any rate, the bottom line is that those velocities are obviously way too high for the anemic .223 Rem.

I will give PACT one more phone call tomorrow, but at this point, I can't imagine having any confidence in this contraption in the future. I sure wish Oehler would start making the 35P again. I just saw one auction go for upwards of $400 for a plain Model 35 (no printer). I really don't want to throw more money at this than necessary. Maybe the Shooting Chrony or the CED Millennium are my best bets.

==========================
I like the looks and sound of the reviews of he CED Mllennium so far. Here are some of the features:

• Base System Includes - chron CPU, dual lens self-adjusting digitally controlled sensors, with 20 ft. shielded cable, skyscreens and 2 ft. mounting bracket!
  
  
• Folding Mounting Bracket - 2 ft. bracket folds in half for compact storage
  
• Wide Screens - larger sensing area than most is possible due to "Dual Lens" sensor technology
  
• Advanced Error Warning - so you can detect problems early
  
• Easy assembly - sensors slip on ends of a square mounting bracket, held by adjustable tension plate, no screws or bolts
  
• Faster With Minimal Lag Time - The official IPSC match chron, will keep up with any race gunner, even full auto weapons
  
• Voice Chip Technology - one and 1/2 seconds after each shot a voice tells you the velocity!
  
• Permanent Memory - stores 1,000 shots (500 per string). Review and edit strings within the chronograph. No small pieces of paper!
  
• USB Connectivity & Software - shoot all day then dump data to a PC USB port for further analysis
  
• Auto-Shut Down Mode - to save battery life without affecting data in memory
  
• Improved Sensor Design - the only digitally controlled sensors that self adjust for varied lighting conditions
  
• All The Functions You Need - high, low and average velocity; extreme spread, standard deviation, edit and omit functions, 10X mode records velocity in decimeters, meters or feet;...even IPSC Power Factor calculations. Need to crunch some numbers? Do it right on the chronograph keypad.
  
• Full Warrantee - CED warrantees their products against manufacturing defects for two years. If something fails to work, they will replace it.
  
• A "True" Infrared (IR) Lighting Option ($89) - will work under any condition, even indoors or in complete darkness. No other chronograph has this option and it is far more useful than a "proof screen" when if there is not enough light. Don't be fooled by tinted tops and filters that claim to emit Infrared.

The only thing that looks a little iffy is the foldable mounting bracket. Looks kind of flimsy to me. I wonder if I could reinforce it by attaching some 2" aluminum square tubing or channel to the bottom side? I have a heavy Monfrotto tripod with detachable plates, so I could permanently mount an extra plate to it as well. Hmmmmm...

My buddy had a PACT he sent it back three different times. Never did get it to read correct. He bought a Chony and is much happier.

I have the newest CED. I love it. All my shooting buds have ordered on since I got this one. Grafs has them for less than $200 to your door. I think the CED is the new Caddy in chrony's

That Pact sensor mount looks similar to mine which has dimples in it that the sensors "snap" into. If the sensors are not snapped in place reading can go all over depending on whether the sreens are too close, or far apart. I`ve had the breeze move the sensors on mine once when they were not locked in place.

The infrared sensors have a plug that connects to each sensor housing. Then to a wall outlet. in. The sensors won`t work off room lighting, floresent or incandescent lights "blink" rapidly and confuss chronies. I don`t see the plugs set-up in your pic shooting out the door. This probably is the problem behind not getting a good reading there.
The advice to shoot square over the screens is a good one too. Too high or too far off to the side can cause dropped shots. Tipping the senors off level can affect the reading too. I try to keep mine ~ 4" over the sensors and the sensors flat to the plane of the bore.
Hope I`ve helped some....

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho_Elk_Huntr:
I have the newest CED. I love it. All my shooting buds have ordered on since I got this one. Grafs has them for less than $200 to your door. I think the CED is the new Caddy in chrony's

I have one of the older CEDs. I purchased in the later part of the 90s, so it's over 10 years old.

I still love the thing. It's easy to use and easy to set up and break down. And the large display is super.

Every now and again, I get a reading that's clearly erroneous, but on the few occasions when that happens, it's easily deleted from the string. Don't know why that is (it may be that I put the skyscreens too close to the muzzle), but it doesn't bother me much.

quote:

Originally posted by Kenati:
The only thing that looks a little iffy is the foldable mounting bracket. Looks kind of flimsy to me.

I don't know about the newer models, but my mounting bracket — that folding thing — is built like a tank (1" square aluminum, I believe). Unless they've changed things, it will be the last thing to fail. Mine "stops opening" with a very secure compaction of the ends of the two limbs against one another. There's no play at all.

I had problems with consistency on mine at one time but I found I had the sensors to close to the muzzle. When shooting hot .223 rounds and hot .243 rounds I black magic marker my bullets and that help the start signal pick up and is easy to do. (I'm not sure if it's the velocity or my muzzle break giving the unit fits but black marker and moving my screens took care of it) I set my sensors approx 30 feet down range and place my unit as close to the bench as possible on the ground. As far as your diffusers being IR, they aren't you would have extra jacks to plug in your power cable. My chrono does have IR sensors and they are black.

quote:

I read somewhere that it can help to put a blue (or maybe it was white) sheet underneath the chronograph to help reflect light on the bottom of the diffusers. I also heard that Marie Laveau's House of Voodoo on Bourbon St. has a potion that might work as well.

Hey Kenati, I've never heard of either of those Fixes, but you never know.

I believe it will work outside with the Tape(repeat 100 times).
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However, if it still doesn't work, "allow" one of your buddies to shoot with it until he actually shoots it and recover the cost.

I just can't find it in my old heart to recommend buying ANY KIND of Chronograph. But it does stimulate the economy.

Best of luck with the Tape.

I can offer no helpful info. I have used mine twice this summer with no problems. If I have problems like yours I think I would give up and get a different brand.

quote:

quote:
I read somewhere that it can help to put a blue (or maybe it was white) sheet underneath the chronograph to help reflect light on the bottom of the diffusers. I also heard that Marie Laveau's House of Voodoo on Bourbon St. has a potion that might work as well.
Hey Kenati, I've never heard of either of those Fixes, but you never know.

I believe it will work outside with the Tape(repeat 100 times).

HC that won`t do it. I`ve had trouble with both a early Alpha model shooting croney and my Pact M1 with fresh snow or ice under the screens on sunny days.. The light reflects up on the bottom of the bullet and masks it from the machine. You need a bright overhead and a shaded, dark bullet for best result. That is why magic marker on the bullets helps at times. Wet grass can also reflect light as can nice white sand.
Clouds are actually brighter then sunny blue skies. You should have a better time with a cloudy day but that doesn`t always hold true if the defusers are used. The defusers work as the clouds to give a nice bright white background for the bullet to show against.

I have an older CED.
My minor complaints appear to be addressed with the new model.

I can't find the link but a weapons lab somewhere in Europe did a side by side analysis of the more popular chronos. CED was the most accurate followed by Ohler, by a stastically insigificant fraction, followed by everyone else.

It is my understanding that a chrono should be set with the center of the sensor bar at 15 feet.

Try it outside in sunlight. My CED wouldn't work inside under a flourescent light either. For indoor use, the CED does have an optional light that mounts on top of the sky screens, powered by a rechargable battery. The light makes it reliable as gravity indoors and outdoors.

I am still "very" satisfied with my three year old CED Chronograph. It's as reliable as gravity, easy to use, and has nice features. I'd like the new one even better - it has more memory and a USB connection to the computer (mine uses a serial cable).

If I were to buy a chronograph today, I'd buy the CED and the optional light with rechargable battery and have complete confidence that it would do every thing I need a chronograph to do.

I'm planning to buy the light and battery for mine so it can be used indoors this coming winter.

Fitch

quote:

Originally posted by Ol` Joe:
..HC that won`t do it. I`ve had trouble with both a early Alpha model shooting croney and my Pact M1 with fresh snow or ice under the screens on sunny days.. The light reflects up on the bottom of the bullet and masks it from the machine. You need a bright overhead and a shaded, dark bullet for best result. That is why magic marker on the bullets helps at times. Wet grass can also reflect light as can nice white sand.
Clouds are actually brighter then sunny blue skies. You should have a better time with a cloudy day but that doesn`t always hold true if the defusers are used. The defusers work as the clouds to give a nice bright white background for the bullet to show against.

Hey Ol`Joe, I bet you nailed it. Back when I was messing with them in the late `60s<->`80s, I doubt they were nearly as sensitive as today's models. Probably just what you said.

And people gripe about the "old folks".

HC didn`t the old ones you talk about from "back in the day" have those pesky wire screens that had to be replaced with every shot. And they were laid out with a 25' tape on a 2x4 by hand. No spacer bar or proof screen.
You also needed a sharp pencil and lots of paper to figure the velocity, your old slid rule might even have been a handy aide.

Maybe I missed something, are you using this indoors or with indoor lighting?
Fluorescent lights or an a.c powered incandescent will probably drive it crazy. I have one of the older models and is has worked quite well for years; works great with the bow.
C.G.B.

Hey Ol`Joe, The first ones were indeed some kind of wire screen(s). Occasionally you could get two shots and maybe three, but that was about it. That was back in the "Old CORPS" days.

I'm hoping that once Kenati reads your post and has good luck getting his going. Something like that can be a real Stress inducer.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
My buddy had a PACT he sent it back three different times. Never did get it to read correct. He bought a Chony and is much happier.

I had the same issues w/ my Pact & bought an Oehler after sending the Pact back 3x. The Oehler is perfect. I stil use the Pact but only as a timer.

Since PACT doesn't list an email address, I went through the American Trigger Corporation website, whom PACT is a distributor/partner with.

I have been communicating with a person there for a day or so and he wrote:

"Please send me your chrono AND your sensors. I will resolve the problem
or refund your money. I'll reimburse your shipping."

I can't ask for more than that.

Should I get a refund? Or should I give them a 3rd chance?

I'm torn...

I would get a refund & buy the CED.

quote:

Originally posted by Kenati:
Since PACT doesn't list an email address, I went through the American Trigger Corporation website, whom PACT is a distributor/partner with.

I have been communicating with a person there for a day or so and he wrote:

"Please send me your chrono AND your sensors. I will resolve the problem
or refund your money. I'll reimburse your shipping."

I can't ask for more than that.

Should I get a refund? Or should I give them a 3rd chance?

I'm torn...

They are trying to make it right. I would give it another try. I love my Pact professional XP chrono, it works great I've had Prochrono, and a chrony but got rid of them and kept the Pact they do make a great chrono, your's just seems to have problems.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I would get a refund & buy the CED.

+1

NO chronograph can work under the flickering ligh from florescents, few can work under incandescents.

Fire as near the center line of the framed window as possible. That's ESPECIALLY so for small, high velocity bullets. That entire window is NOT the area seen by the photo cells, the frames and difusser are outside the best cell viewing area.

Keep your muzzle well clear of the first screen, at least 10 feet and 15 ft. is better, or you WILL get false triggering fron the colume of compressed air that gets pushed from of the bore ahead of the bullet.

DO NOT allow direct sunlight to shine on or into the sensor slots, it can "blind" the photo cells to any passing bullet.

Insure that the Tripod/Screen bar is heavy enough to remain steady during muzzle blast. Hang a bag of sand, etc, from the tripod head if necessary.

All this applies to any chronograph. And the PACT is perhaps the best currently available.

Why not get the "best" and simply purchase an Oehler profesional model? No valid reaaon at all if you have a few thousand loose dollars burning a hole in your wallet.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
NO chronograph can work under the flickering ligh from florescents, few can work under incandescents.

The Pact Professional works even under fluorescent lighting if you have the IR kit and use marker on your bullets to get rid of the shine. Flickering doesn't seem to affect the IR sensors.

Hey everyone-

I just wanted to follow up and let you know that "RC" at PACT was a man of his word and issued a full refund plus partial shipping charges. I received a check in the mail today for $245.

Last week, I bought a CED M2 Chronograph that was on sale at Sinclair's for $187. I got to test it out very briefly before a rain storm and did not have any issues. When I get some more range time and good weather, I will post a separate report.

Thanks everyone for your advice and input.

That does speak well of them to refund the vast majority of your money. Companies occasionally need a WAKE-UP call or two, when their internal attitudes become lax in regards to Quality. If enough people send them back, the people problem would be resolved(that caused the Quality issue in the first place) and then the replacement folks can get the Quality back up to where it should have been in the beginning.

The bad news is the second group of folks are often attempting to repair a ship whose reputation has already sealed as it's going under.
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Best of luck with the CED. If you still need some highly accurate "guesstimates" to check it against, I'll be glad to help you. Send $$$!