What other hobby gives you more bang for the buck?

And while I'm thinking about it, weren't reloaders the first to recycle?

I´m speaking for myself here but I think that this might be a common hold back when thinking of reloading: Fear.

I´m a bit of a clutz and I really needed to ease into handloading slowly as I was scared of killing myself...or innocent bystanders!

I might be exaggerating a bit but not a whole lot.

Now that I´ve been doing it a couple of years I couldn´t be happier! Sure I´ve made some mistakes -stupid ones- but nothing dangerous.

Yet.

Yes, it is therapeutic.

I'd certainly pick handloading over rock climbing in the fear factor department.

I think a lot of people think Reloading is harder then it really is.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
...And while I thinking about it, weren't reloaders the first to recycle?

That may be absolutely true. Even the ole Buffler Hunters had the folks recover as much Lead as possible so it could be recycled.

You have a good question. I'd say the big hang-up for the folks I know who just use Factory Ammo is a lack of time. They seem to have all their free time "scheduled" and have no openings for Reloading.

Obviously a Priority problem or two.

Well then, if you can't make time for handloading, what hobby COULD you make time for? Or perhaps, some shooters can't make time for any hobby. What a shame; maybe the shooting can be the only hobby for them.

Some guys have told me that reloads are ok for target practice but they aren't reliable enough to hunt with....that's why they don't reload... What a joke!!

After all these years of hunting with my own reloads I would be nervous using factory ammo...

Z

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zeeriverrat1:
Some guys have told me that reloads are ok for target practice but they aren't reliable enough to hunt with....that's why they don't reload... What a joke!!

After all these years of hunting with my own reloads I would be nervous using factory ammo... :Z

+1

Its a total lack of patience. Not much 'instant gratification' in handloading. And without that few people will have their interest held long enough to learn and like it. Besides any hobby that doesn't require a computer can't be fun now can it.

Been doing it for 35 years....probably because I can't knit and reading bores me to tears.

When I was selling reloading gear, the two things that came up the most were

#1 Fear - of hurting themselves or someone else
#2 That you had to be a genius to reload.
(not that I'm belittling anyone here - I think most of you are genius's!)

Those people who were patient enough to listen to me explain some basics, usually went away with the items needed to get started.

Mike

i find it suprisingly popular, and growing ...
I have been reloading most of my adult life, and under dad's supervision WAY too young...


a mentor is the best bet to get someone to reload..... or a love for an oddball caliber

jeffe

1. There are a lot of folks out there too lazy to do anything that exercises their brains.
2. They connect reloading with "used". The same guys would not buy a used rifle, car or house.
3. Many guys think they only need 1 or 2 rounds per hunting season and see no reason to spend money on reloading equipment when they make a box of ammo last 10 years.
4. A lot of the so called shooters and hunters are neither hunters or shooters. They don't shoot enough to qualify and are just too cheap to burn up components.

Had a conversation the other day and one fella said heck it's easier than cooking. Well I added that I can't boil water, but I can make ammunition.

quote:

Originally posted by skb2706:
Its a total lack of patience. Not much 'instant gratification' in handloading. And without that few people will have their interest held long enough to learn and like it. Besides any hobby that doesn't require a computer can't be fun now can it.

Been doing it for 35 years....probably because I can't knit and reading bores me to tears.

I get plenty of "instant gratification" . Every time the hammer drops on a handloaded round.

i got into handloading after i bought the first 2 boxes of hornady 458 lott at 65 dollars a box. now i load 400 gr plinker loads for 30 dollars per hundred assuming i reuse my brass. now a few years later i have guns i havent ever bought factory ammo for, i even handloaded for my 25cal beretta. the only guns i buy factory ammo for are 7.62x39. its not that hard you just have to pay attention. hell, my wife loads her own 380 for her bersa sometimes and shes not a genius. i think lee is the way to go for the beginer ive never had a problem with their products and my perfect powder measure is accurate to a 10th of a grain with every powder ive used.

In my own experience, the vast majority of more than occasional shooters are reloaders - economy, accuracy, satisfaction, completeness of experience...

I'm even more amazed, with todays ammo prices, that more shooters aren't handloaders. There are so many shooters complaining about the ammo costs, but they make all the normal excuses for not handloading:
Not enough time
Not enough space
Too much to get started, blah, blah, blah.
I think 99% of them are just afraid of putting their own ammo together. It's fine w/ me, it keeps me supplied in 9mm, 40s&w & 45acp brass. I just wish they would stop complaining & get reloading.

I started handloading in 1955 and have enjoyed every minute. Course with some folks there are a lot of excuses, and reasons for not reloading but the main one is that they are to lazy to put down the remote and do a little work. Today's generation is a service oriented populance.

I was playing cards the other day with a truely avid and knowledeable Hunter.I asked him if he reloaded and he told me he use to but hunting is what he likes not reloading

He went on to say that he gets the best, reliable firearms he can and the best commercial ammo to go with each rifle . He is younger than I ,in his 60s, and still hunts all the game in Alaska and points south. He gets his kicks from deboneing and carrying out caribou meat and horns to a Beaver or 185 than measureing smokeless powder into a piece of brass and than doing a which hunt for the proper bullet to put on top.

I don't think he is alone from the people I meet at the range.

The answer is these good people just do not want to bother with reloading. Their interests are in other areas. roger

i got started handloading at age 13... i remember an insurance agent coming to our house to renew the policy... he about freaked out when he saw an old texan shot-shell reloader set up in my bedroom... not to mention the 4 8lb kegs of herco i had stashed in my closet...dad laughed it off...withe the heavy calibers i shoot now, the .416 taylor, .416 rem mag, .458 win mag, 9,3x74r, it doesnt make sense to buy factory, except to get brass...and then i pick up bargain factory ammunition.... like $26/box winchester .458 510gr sp's...

Started reloading at 14,12gauge trap loads, at 15 centerfire, for the economics. Was real nervous and cautious starting out,but with time I realized it isn't difficult. Here 30 years later I still do it and enjoy it, I find it to be relaxing. I've only used my own reloads to hunt with all these years, and as one of the other members stated there is a lot of satisfaction in using my own loads to hunt with. With all the tinkering to find the perfect load for a rifle, I think you get to really know your rifle. It is only fairly recently that the ammo manufactures started offering premium bullets. With the price of ammo for the larger calibers it only makes sense to reload.

I've only been reloading for about 5 years or so. I'm not sure why it took me so long to finally start because I had threatened for years to do it.

I guess, at least for me, the guns I had up until I started reloading were chambered in military cartridges which had really good supplies of cheap surplus ammo, or cheaply attainable factory ammo, so the savings really wouldn't be all that great. Back then all but one of my guns were semi-auto, I was single (and employed) and a regular weekly or biweekly range trip would be in excess of 500 rounds, some times over 1000, so the shear volume of reloading I would have had to have done would have been prohibitive.

Then I found a girl, settled down, had kids, and became broke, at the same time I started to appreciate a "hunting rifle" which led to expensive ammo and reloading.

At least the UPS guy likes me now.

I think that ignorance plays a huge roll in the reason many people don’t reload. Notice that I didn’t say stupidity. That’s a different subject all together. I’ve been reloading for 37 years now. I still have people who give me the opinion that reloaded ammo is inferior to factory ammo. Of course us reloaders know better. People just don’t understand that when properly done that a reloaded round can be equal to or a much better than mass produced factory ammo.
In my younger days there always seemed to be a few idiots around who knew just enough about reloading to be dangerous. These people were a great help to giving reloading a bad name.
Another reason, there are those who think reloading would be beneficial but don’t want to take the time to learn how or are afraid that they may make a serious mistake.
Then there are those who just don’t want to invest the money to get started. (It can get costly just starting out)

Initial cost is hard to justify for a lot of casual shooters. If you only buy a couple boxes of ammo a year it is hard to justify several hundred dollars and your hobby time to begin reloading. It generally costs at least $300 to start reloading and at $10 a box for ammo for the old 30-30 it may not be worth it for them.

loading has saved my live. if i didn't spend so much time out in my reloading room out in the garage, my wife probably would have shot me years ago

I'll have to admit when I first started reloading I did a lot of research on the internet, and aquired and read the speer, hodgdon, lyman, and sierra manuals, and 6 months worth of handloader magazine before a ever attempted to load a cartridge. Then I went very slow, double and triple checking everything. But, I was still hesitant of pulling the trigger the first time.

I know a lot of folks who would tell you that gunpowder is explosive and that they are afraid to keep it around. They will give you a million reasons why you shouldn't, and conversely, these same folks have a garage full of old paint and gas cans, yet think nothing of it.
Sad, isn't it?

The current price jump in ammunition ought to increase interest in reloading once again. With prices ranging from $30 to $60 a box for "common" rifle and pistol ammo, people should be getting the message quick enough. Getting into reloading should now be a minor cost issue when you compare the retail cost of a basic setup at $200 vs maybe 4-6 boxes of ammunition. I've also noticed how the good old boys at gun shows who sell old ammo are now running out of product! Price will prevail. Me? I reload almost all my hunting ammo in over ten different calibers, and I won't even go into the handguns.
LLS

quote:

I´m speaking for myself here but I think that this might be a common hold back when thinking of reloading: Fear.

+1
All the weighing and sorting… and keeping up with Primers and powders… Let’s face it it can be a tad intimidating .
Then there the things like start-up cost, time… etc. heck it’s a wonder any one handloads at all.
But you can see why those whio do handload, take it sooo seriously

Several hunters don't bother simply because of the TIME and EXPENSE involved setting up .

An " Average Hunter " hunts maybe 2-3 times a year for Meat or Horns maybe a Bird hunt thrown in here and there .

Figure the cost of shooting say #6 -8 shells of 30/06 . #4 for the sight in #2 for the Hunt . A box of 20 at $30.00 maybe , now throw in a couple of boxes of shotgun shells $ 15.00 ?,

Simple matter of economics is the way I see it .

How ever if one shoots say 250 or more rounds a year of what ever caliber . YOU had better be reloading as a matter of economics .

My self I must shoot at least 5K rounds a year of various calibers and possibly more . I how ever don't like to dwell on the numbers only the results .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by DIXIEDOG:
Initial cost is hard to justify for a lot of casual shooters. If you only buy a couple boxes of ammo a year it is hard to justify several hundred dollars and your hobby time to begin reloading. It generally costs at least $300 to start reloading and at $10 a box for ammo for the old 30-30 it may not be worth it for them.

If you are only hunting deer once a year or shooting your handgun once or twice a year, handloading makes little sense time wise or economicly. For the guy/gal that shoots 500rds/month or exotic calibers, handloading is an absolute must unless you are Bill Gates rich.
Your start up costs are really quite nomina;. Even if you go first class all the way, you are talking maybe $1500 fro a couple of calibers. That isn't very much ammo at todays prices.

I would say that initial costs are a big part of the reason why more people don't reload. A Lee Aniversary Kit costs about $100 and a RCBS kit costs about $300. The Hornady and Lyman kits are somewhere in the middle. Add dies for about $30 per caliber. To this you add about $25 for a box of bullets, $20 for primers and $25 for powder.

In 30-06 or 270 there is still a lot of ammo out there for $25 or less. That means that a hunter can shoot two boxes of ammo a year for 6 years for what the first box of reloaded ammo will cost him. (about $200)

I know quite a number of deer hunters who go through about two boxes (40rds) of centerfire ammo per year for sight in, practice and hunting. A number of these folks don't want to shoot more because they use magnum calibers and get pounded by the recoil.

Perhaps if more people took up light shooting calibers they would want to shoot more and take up reloading. Just a thot!

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:


1. There are a lot of folks out there too lazy to do anything that exercises their brains....


4. A lot of the so called shooters and hunters are neither hunters or shooters. They don't shoot enough to qualify and are just too cheap to burn up components.

I think these two, especially Number One, along with "too much" money and a pathetic "work ethic", just about sum up most of the ones I've noticed who had handloading suggested to them by someone but responded with an excuse for not doing it.

When they find out you actually have to study & learn what you are doing to be completely successful at it, they push it away with the handiest 10-foot pole they can grab.

If they could just buy a machine that did all the thinking and came up with the fastest, most accurate, and cheapest loads just by pulling a handle, they'd buy three of them tomorrow (so they could also brag about how many they have).

Many of them are no loss to the shooting sports, in my opinion. They don't exhibit much interest in learning how to compete, or how to hunt, or even how to be lawful and/or safe, either, because it takes some effort on their part.

Obviously I am not referring to any of you guys, who make the effort to come here to learn, or to share experiences and knowledge you can contribute to the rest of us.

Frankly, I am not nearly as impressed as some apparently think we all should be, by the capacities or efforts of the folks who don't believe they really need to learn anything about the sport in order to participate in it.

AC ; I believe my Grand Father summed it up best . He used to tell me ;
The day you stops learning is the day their putting dirt on top of you !.

Theres three kinds of people you never want to trust , Lawyers ,Politicians and Doctors ; because they all have their hand in your pants !.
Theres two kinds of people in the world !.
Those that try that might and those who don't that wont !.

Kind of figured my self for the trying kind as you can only go wrong or succeed , either way at least you did something !.

Forgive me I know this belongs on the political forum but I'm short of time Dinner awaits don't call me late . I just wondered how anybody else felt about this .


THE JOB - URINE TEST
=

(I sure would like to know who wrote this one! They deserve a HUGE pat
on the back!)

Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job. I work, they pay me.
I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit.
In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test=

with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the
distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test.
Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I=

have to pass one to earn it for them? Please understand, I have no
problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other
hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their ASS, doing
drugs, while I work. . . . Can you imagine how much money the state
would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance=

check? Pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't.
Hope you all will pass it along, though . . . Something has to change in=

this country -- and soon!

The JOB - URINE TEST =

It has been mentioned that the initial cost of equipment is a deterrent to entering this hobby. Some figures were between $100 and $300.

Golf is a popular hobby. Do wannabe golfers gripe that they'd give it a go if a bag of clubs wasn't so dear? What level of clubs will $300 get you? Wallyworld or Tiger Woods?

Consider woodworking. Huge initial investment in power tools. I doubt anybody can call themselves a Norm Abrams wannabe with only a 300 dollar bill. And, to tell the truth, I consider my handcrafted ammo in the same vein as Norm's projects. I put just as much loving attention into them. They just don't last as long!

Dr. K -

I had not seen that urine test commentary before, but I SURE AS HELL agree with it, 100%!!

I'm just a little surprised at the degree of negetive thinking towards non reloaders.

I can understand the guy who puts a great deal of time into hunting and is totaly proficient but would rather ,for instance, rebuild classic cars in his free time rather than reload. There is nothing lacking in his goals, effort or work ethic. His interests are just different than mine.

Cost of starting to reload is not even a factor with some. Fear of the unknown, related to reloading, for many I've known doesn't exist.

In my youth a fair number of farmers and ranch people I knew carried a rifle almost every working day in a saddle scabard or gun rack on a 4x4. They probably found need to use the rifle(tool) at least once a week. Few if any back than reloaded.

The reasons reloading isn't more popular is as varied as the story each individual rifle has to tell. Different strokes for different folks.

IMHO, people aren't of an inferior breed because they don't love reloading as I do. roger

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
It has been mentioned that the initial cost of equipment is a deterrent to entering this hobby. Some figures were between $100 and $300.

Golf is a popular hobby. Do wannabe golfers gripe that they'd give it a go if a bag of clubs wasn't so dear? What level of clubs will $300 get you? Wallyworld or Tiger Woods?

Consider woodworking. Huge initial investment in power tools. I doubt anybody can call themselves a Norm Abrams wannabe with only a 300 dollar bill. And, to tell the truth, I consider my handcrafted ammo in the same vein as Norm's projects. I put just as much loving attention into them. They just don't last as long!

onefunzr2,
Well lets start off with the cost of basic deer hunting. The rifle, stands, camo, liscence, tags and everything that a deer hunter spends money on. An increasing number of hunters also use muzzle loaders and archery gear to add to the number of days that they get to spend in the field. When you total up all of these expenses I understand if there are other places where any given hunter wants to spend their money and invest their time.

I reload but I would much rather spend time scouting for game than at the reloading bench. Fortunately I have time to do both.

I'd guess that everyone has touched upon A reason among many that more people don't handload. I'd add this:

Handloading has been a small pert of the shrinking pastime of shooting sports ever since factory ammunition became widely available. People buy factory ammo for pretty much the same reasons that thet drive cars instead of ride the bus, or watch TV instead of read books et...

I imagine that there will always be people who appreciate the hobby for itself, unlike the hunter who just wants to shoot and not bother with the details.

Personally, I can't imagine NOT handloading my ammo. I think most match shooters insist on loading their own, although I have met some folks who shot factory ammo who were beginners at matches.

For what it's worth, I was not allowed to shoot any centerfire rifle or handgun, nor shoot a shotgun until I could load a cartridge for it. That's the way my dad and grandad thought I should learn to shoot. No, we did not hunt dinosaurs; we hunted cave bears.

Roger -

I knew some folks would be suprised, and that others unfortunately might even be offended by the strength of my bias expressed in my previous post on this thread.

To me, a shooter who doesn't reload isn't really a serious shooter. He may be many other things, all good and honourable, but not a true shooting sports afficianado.

Borrowing a bit from the example you cited, I also can't imagine a true classic car buff who doesn't know how to change his own spark plugs, set his own points, and adjust his own carburetor(s). Often he can rebuild his classics from stem to stern. He not only knows how, he has studied enough to know WHY he is doing it. That doesn't mean he has to do it every day, or even every year, but he knows how, and he CAN do it. Same with real shooters, to me.

Of course everyone has their opinion, and they are welcome to it, but that is mine.

I have no animosity toward non=handloaders, but I do not greatly respect either their excuses, or their claim to be shooters.

As for handloading, in the old days, there WAS a period of several decades, starting about 15 years after the introduction of smokeless powders, when handloading did pretty much die out.

Prior to that, encompassing all of the muzzle-loading era and most all of the blackpowder cartridge era, pretty much every shooter was a reloader. Their tools weren't fancy, and their handloads not always as good as we would require for our guns today, but they often (Mostly?) made their own bullets, at least neck-sized their own cases, deprimed & reprimed, and measured their own powder charges. That was especially true with westerners who spent long days or weeks out with the cattle or sheep, or killing off varmints on their subsistance farms.

It was also true with rural law enforcement officers, of which I was one. Many an evening my partner and I spent in the Sheriff's Office with an Ideal tong tool (later called the Lyman 310) loading ammo for our service weapons, prior to taking off the next morning for some part of the county 70 or 80 miles from town to where problems had become more than the local residents had the time or inclination to handle on their own.

Anyway, I for one am tickled to see that since about 1950 handloading has become a desirable skill again for many gun owners.