There has been a number of questions about how to de-activate a primer.

Our past experience showed that it all depends on the primer.

Those available for us reloaders, some have a protective covbering that prevents oil from penetrating the compound to kill it.

I am going to try this with some factory ammo.

We have started with Fiocchi 9mm ammo.

I have pulled the bullets out of 10 rounds, and squirted WD40 into each case to about half its capacity.

My intention is to see how long it take for the primers to die.

Round 1 fired after 30 minutes of being soaked, no problem there at all.

I will fire a couple today, noting the times. The rest I will leave, firing one every day.

I will let you know how this works out.

Round 2 fired 2 hours after being soaked in WD40 fired, but sounded rather subdude.

Saeed
Once you find the "killed" time, empty the rest out and let them dry out for several days. See if they again fire.

IMHO you will find better results with such solvents as Acetone, MEK, etc

Brake fluid apparently works too , but not many substances work very quickly - that factory-applied seal is pretty effective.

I have collected a few more boxes of ammo from different makers.

I will do the same with them.

Round 3 fired after 6 hours of soaking in WD40.

Went off like the number 2.

Next one will be fired after 24 hours.

Interesting experiment. I always assumed that it was near instantaneous deactivation. Boy was I wrong!

I'll be following along. Thanks for posting, Saeed.

Am curious why WD 40 was the first solvent to try? Not that I have a better idea, but did you have a 'lead' that the WD40 would react in some way with the priming compound?

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Am curious why WD 40 was the first solvent to try? Not that I have a better idea, but did you have a 'lead' that the WD40 would react in some way with the priming compound?

We selected WD40 because it is a penetrating oil, no other reason.

Round 4 still fired just like the previous one. Not with a full BANG, but still might ignite the powder.

I have 6 more rounds to fire, which I will do each day.

Stu Farish did a bunch of testing trying to kill primers.

http://www.predatormastersforu...om/killprimers.shtml

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/PrimerTest.htm

Where I used to work if we had to knock out primers we would use acetone to kill them. Squirt some in, let sit for 5 minutes, dump out acetone and knock out with a punch. I do not know how dead they were but I never had one pop. Famous last words.

When we shipped scrap primers they were dumped into thickened vegetable oil, although many were "scrapped" in 38 specials.

We used primers in parts for aircraft ejection seats.



Mark

the last step in primer assembly is a drop of lacquer, the acetone is disolving that.

I've made a few "dummy" cartridges for folks for display items. I've killed the primers by soaking them in WD-40 for a few days, then holding them with needle nose pliers, cup up, take a pair of tweezers and gently pull the anvil out of the cup.

That will be one dead primer then. No anvil, no bang.

Then just seat the empty cup in the brass like a normal primer. From the outside, it looks like a normal primer.

Yesterday I also pulled bullets from Norma 9mm Para ammo.

Fired one one hour later, and went off about half power.

THis morning, I fired one Fiocchi and one Norma.

The Fiochi has been wet for 48 Hours, and the Norma 24 hours.

The Fiochi went off with a louder bang than the Norma, despite being wet with WD 40 for twice as long!

Will fire the next ones tomorrow.

Thanks for the report Saeed....always good to get first hand information.

Both Fiochi and Norma fired, but of course with much reduced power.

Tomorrow I will fired them at white paper.

I'm prone to distrust 'conventional wisdom' about much of anything; learned long ago that trusting some of it can get you killed!

I did the same kind of experiments with a random collection of punched-out live primers some years ago using both WD-40 and a light gun oil.

I seated and fired three of each on successive days. It took about a week of soaking in both oils to kill them all, if I remember correctly. Today's sealed primers are much less sensitive to stray traces of oil than the old ones that were not sealed; I like that!

Well,

Appart from the original effect on the primers after a few hours, it seems things have stood still.

Both the Fiocchi and Norm primers fired this morning.

Once I am finished with these, I will try the same with primers that I have for large rifles.

I have primers from Federal, Winchester, CCI and RWS.

By the looks of things, the RWS do not seem to be sealed, so it will be interesting to see how they all perform.

So much for touching them with your fingers contaminating them.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
So much for touching them with your fingers contaminating them.

Exactly!

When I got into reloading, I went to some lengths to flip them in the priming tray, if needed, with tweezers and that didn't last long! I have loads that have been loaded for years, having touched the primers, and they shoot just fine.

I use the rock and hammer method, with gloves and goggles of course

That reminds me of a funny,

Many years ago I was home during the day and kept hearing small "bang" noises from outside. I went out to find the neighbor's small boys hitting the paper roll caps (remember those?) with a hammer. They thought it was cool. I went and got a primer from my reloading bench and told them to hit that...

Man, that was loud. Both boys kind of jumped back and said "Wow!" Then, "Can we have some more?!"

I said I don't think so, it sounded as loud as a gunshot. I was 5 feet from them, and MY ears were ringing...

They, being boys after all, thought it was great. Ah it was a different time. Today the SWAT team would have blocked off the street.

This is getting interesting.

The Fiocchi have been soaked for 8 days.
Still fire, but with a very much reduced report.

The same with the Norma.

So much for guys freaking out about handling primers, maybe.

Salt water (sweat) or the home brewed case cleaner with ammonia could have a different result.

I've handled primers for the last 25 yrs. Just made sure my hande were clean & dry. Never any problems.

quote:

Originally posted by 2ugly2shoot:
So much for guys freaking out about handling primers, maybe.

Salt water (sweat) or the home brewed case cleaner with ammonia could have a different result.

I am out of town currently, and will try water, sea water, cleaner with ammonia, break cleaner etc.

When I was a kid (long time ago) I found an 'interesting' way to kill primers (don't remember why I was doing this, dumb kid thing I guess). Anyway I would pull bullets from surplus '06 ammo, set the case on the ground and shake a bit of the powder out the mouth. Apply match, watch powder burn back into case, then get a good pop and case would go spinning off. Don't remember ever having the primer blown out of the case. Case was a bit scorched but looked unfired and the primer was dead. You could probably accomplish the same results with a propane torch applied to primer. Would also recommend all sorts of safety precautions etc.
C.G.B.

Maybe someone with a chemistry background could look at this table of primer compositions and suggest a good solvent.

What do the numbers at the top of the table refer too?

956, 196 etc?

From a 1984 paper titled: INGREDIENT EFFECTS ON THE PRIMER COMPOSITION


MIX NO. RATIONALE

956- Baseline - a widely used U.S. formulation
196- Eliminate antimony sulfide - other ingredients remain at ratios in 956 mix
197 -Eliminate antimony sulfide - reduce barium
nitrate by amount necessary to form SbS, SO and S02
198 - Eliminate aluminum - reduce barium nitrate by amount required to form A1203
199- Eliminate PETN - other ingredients remainat ratios in 956 mix
200- Double PETN content - other ingredients remain at ratios in 956 mix
201-Eliminate PETN - increase tetracene by same amount
202 Eliminate antimony sulfide and increase aluminum/barium nitrate correspondingly
203 Eliminate antimony sulfide-use 50% of its weight for PETN and 50% for aluminum/barium nitrate
204 Primer mix VH2 - contains no AI, but contains calcium silicide and lead dioxide
70 FA #70 mix - no lead styphnate. Contains potassium chlorate and lead thiocyanate

quote:

You could probably accomplish the same results with a propane torch applied to primer. Would also recommend all sorts of safety precautions etc.
C.G.B.

Having never detonated a primer outside of a firearm I decided to do just this. In my darkened gun room, wearing safety glasses I held a primed 308Win case in some pliars and applied aforesaid propane torch. The blast was impressive and the flame that shot out of the case was substantial. The case went flying from the pliars and was found across the room.

I won't do that again but it reinforced the suggestion to wear my safety glasses when reloading

Saeed,

If you want to de-activate a primer, just hand it to Walter.

He will somehow make it fail.

Give him my regards!

George

I put a torch to a primer once, it faced a window about three feet away, the primer cup was blown out with such force that it broke the window.

As a kid I placed a shotgun primer on a steel water heater tank and hit it with a pipe foot or so long. The blast ripped my finger or thumb, don't remember which but it bled pretty good.

Sometime back a friend had some primers to be disposed off. They were mixed. More Federals I beleive though.

I filled an empty gallon sized Clorox jug about 3/4 full of water and added a few drops of liquid dish detergent just because and to add some break to the surface tension. And keep things bubbly LOL.

I then put the primers in.

Actually now I think I put the soap in on to the primers and slowly added the water as to not make excessive suds and allow for more water in the jug.

Every now and then when we would pass through the shop we would tilt the jug around. Not vigorously. Just enough to stir things over a bit.

I cant say exactly how long they were in the solution. But more than 2 weeks and probably less than a month or six weeks.

When we examined the primers it appeared they had broken down. The water had fouled in color and concentration. We decided it was good and to test a few of the primers for deactivation.

We tried a couple and they did not fire at all. We tried a couple of more after they dried more and again there was no fire.

You results may vary.

quote:

Originally posted by leoparddog:

quote:

You could probably accomplish the same results with a propane torch applied to primer. Would also recommend all sorts of safety precautions etc.
C.G.B.

Having never detonated a primer outside of a firearm I decided to do just this. In my darkened gun room, wearing safety glasses I held a primed 308Win case in some pliars and applied aforesaid propane torch. The blast was impressive and the flame that shot out of the case was substantial. The case went flying from the pliars and was found across the room.

I won't do that again but it reinforced the suggestion to wear my safety glasses when reloading

Yes propane torch works great on primers. Have done it outside, but lay a rock on the empty case and apply the heat and presto bango primer gone forever Best done with eye protection and gloves, and shouldn't have to say but don't stand directly behind the primers . . . could injure some jewels

But, torch will not work on the mercury filled primers, you can heat them all day and nothing happens, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

Have anyone tried salt water? Back in WW2 many guys would not trust ammo that was submerged for more then a few minutes.
But then again, if they were sealed you then wouldn't have any issues.
Enjoy reading guys
Thanks!

Well, it has been 20 days of them soaked in WD 40, they still fire, albight at much reduced power.

So I thought I might try something else.

I have deprimed 50 308 Winchester cases - I have plenty of these.

I have marked each 25 of them seperately, as I have Federal 210M and RWS 5341, just to see if tehre is a ny difference in what happens.

I am going to soak 5 primed cases with each of the following:

1. Sea water.
2. Hoppe's lubricating oil.
3. Hoppes Elite Gun Cleaner.
4. Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber solvent/degreaser.
5. Hoppe's # 9.

I will fire one of each every 24 hours.

Well, this certainly is an eye opener.

Here are the results of soaking the primed cases for 24 hours.

1. Hoppe's Lubricating oil - RWS, fired normally. Federal 210M , dead!

2. Hoppe's Elite Gun Cleaner - RWS, fired normally. Federal 210M, dead.

3. Hoppe's #9 - RWS, fired normally. Federal 210M, dead.

4. Birchwood Casey Scrubber - RWS, fired. Federal 210M, dead.

5. Sea water - RWS, fired. Federal 210M, fired.

So it seems sea water is the least effective primer killer!

And it depends on the make of the primer as well.

I will fire the rest of the RWS at 24 hour intervals, and the Federal with sea water as well.

Tomorrow you will get another report.

Morning Saeed
Try Kroil, the oil that creeps.

Jim