Hi all,

Just an observation from what I see here.

I've used Speer bullets for years with total satisfaction on just about every class of plains game, except Zebra and giraffe.

I have had total satisfaction from the ordinary Speer Hot Core, as well as the Grand Slam and Magtip - the boat-tails not quite so much, but they do warn they are softer.

Now I see people on here who talk about the Hornady Interlock as though they are pretty good, but to me they appear to be nothing more than large calibre varmint bullets.

So, I suppose what I'm asking is why the non-mention of Speer and the liking for Hornady?

Because Hornady bullets cost less?

Here is our price range in Sweden, Norma is the local brand so most people use it even then its more expensive. Hornady is a common brand with a wide range of bullets for reloaders speer is not what common and prices are often high (but prices semms lower at this moment) I have used hornady 165gr sp for several different games and it works good for everything from roedeer to moose at a very low cost. (60-65% retained weight good effect in both sides of a moose of 200kg carcass weight)


Norma vulkan 180gr 752sek/100= speer grandslam 180gr 796sek/100= lapua mega 185gr 560sek/100

Hornady 165sp 340sek/100= speer hot core 377sek/100

I found that with the Speer 130gr bullets out of a 270 win. caused a great deal of damage. I shot 4 deer with the 130gr hot core and lost a shoulder on each deer. with broad side shots. one deer the opposite side had about 6 ribs blown up
everything in the middle was jello. they do kill.
I used 140gr Hornady this year all was good I did hit one a little high and lost the loin.

I actually have many Speer bullets on my reloading bench. My beef with them is they don't think things through.

They roll out the DeepShock. Ooops it's too expensive the make. Let's discontinue.

They change the GrandSlam from a dual core design in to nothing more than a Mag-tip with a slightly better BC BUT continue to price it like a Partition.

They discontinue the Magtip.

They roll out the DeepCurl and announce it is replacing the beloved Hot-Cor.

Ooops the DeepCurl has over pressure issues and is dangerous. Let's discontinue and give you back the Hot-Cor.

Now we are back to the same Hot-Cors and BTSPs they have made for decades. I'm perfectly fine with that but stop creating chaos for your customers.

If you can't innovate, follow Sierra's model. You get Varmint, Target, Pro-Hunters and Gamekings. They will roll out a few different bullets every few years but you can count on them to have the bullets you like.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
I actually have many Speer bullets on my reloading bench. My beef with them is they don't think things through.

They roll out the DeepShock. Ooops it's too expensive the make. Let's discontinue.

They change the GrandSlam from a dual core design in to nothing more than a Mag-tip with a slightly better BC BUT continue to price it like a Partition.

They discontinue the Magtip.

They roll out the DeepCurl and announce it is replacing the beloved Hot-Cor.

Ooops the DeepCurl has over pressure issues and is dangerous. Let's discontinue and give you back the Hot-Cor.

Now we are back to the same Hot-Cors and BTSPs they have made for decades. I'm perfectly fine with that but stop creating chaos for your customers.

If you can't innovate, follow Sierra's model. You get Varmint, Target, Pro-Hunters and Gamekings. They will roll out a few different bullets every few years but you can count on them to have the bullets you like.

This. +1.

For standard velocities, they world fine. Add velocity and they seem too soft. I've used them to work up loads (cheaper) and they shoot well. Tested them (my own wet phone book method) and the only one that 'passed' the test was the 275/338. The 308/180 FB went to pieces in my fast barreled 30/06. The 100/257 also did not hold together
Speer seems to lack innovation and has much more competition than in the past. Look at the innovations Nosler has developed.
Grow/innovate or get left behind.
The Hornady interlocks have'tested' better even at 264 WM velocities and proven accurate for load development. I have no problem w/ their terminal performance in my latest load development--280AI/139g. Not much of a 'test' really. Red bloodied it up on a cull 8.
I'm sticking w/ the hornady interlock for load development and 'normal velocity' cartridges when deer/hog hunting. NPs or ABs for the bigger NA stuff.

I blew up a bunch of Speers shooting them in an STW a couple decades back. Hornadys seemed to stand up to the close range impacts better, so if I need or want a cheaper bullet I go with those. Most of the calibers I use are on the highend of the velocity spectrum.

At lower velocities and softer targets they work quite well, more or less like blue box Federal.

I use them in some guns I use them when the price is right.

Speer has always made a pretty decent conventional cup-and-core bullet. Typically, I have found them to provide better average accuracy from most guns that Hornady's competing c-&-c bullets, but perhaps just a bit less accurate than the Sierra c&c bullets. That is average accuracy I'm speaking of, and individual rifles can and do favor one over another.

Surprise! They behave like cup-and-core bullets on impact. Meaning that they generally inflict more trauma and kill faster (with potentially more meat damage) than bullets which use another type of construction or one or another gimmick to limit expansion at higher velocities.

never had the accuracy out of speer - save 1 or 2

Thanks to all who replied so courteously.

I think scottfromdallas has got a real point here. I wasn't involved in the whole Deep-curl saga, so can't really weigh in.

Generally my experience with c-and-c bullets has been that Hornady are more "brittle" and break into tiny shards more easily than Speer or Sierra, but that's my experience and obviously if we all had the same experience we'd all be on the .223. .30-06, .458 forum instead of accurate reloading.

Good point in that they're (Hornady) cheap, BTW.

In general with c-and-c here in Oz, I go Sierra, Woodleigh, Speer when reloading.

For other types of bullets, Hornady gets back on the list, especially for varmint loads as well as Nosler

Getting on for bigger calibres, I like Nosler, Woodleigh and Speer for their 235 gr .375 for Big Game Rifle shooting (it's a discipline here).

Thanks again for everyone's time - hope you enjoyed the chat.

Scott got it right.

But for me it was also a consistency and performance on price difference too.

In the premium bullets the Noslers were much more consistent especially in weights. I weighed some boxes of Partitions and Accubonds and they were mostly 0.1 grains high or low and some at 0.2 grains or so. The Speer GrandSlams in the same caliber while even higher priced at times were truly all over the place in weights. So I believed the Nosler accuracy was better and that the Nosler performance was better too in my loads.

Then in the lower priced bullets Speer wasn't even close to Sierra. The Sierra were right on the money spec wise and cheaper as well. So for paper targets or softer targets I used the Sierra. Sierra was also well stocked locally.

So those two squeezed the Speers out of most of rifle calibers for me.

I do use some Speer. In handguns, and in swaged lead, and in something like 30-30 as my preferred Winchester Silvertips are almost gone. I did also buy some Hot Cor 416s but I advent loaded them or shot them yet.

I have rarely bought or loaded Hornady so I don't have much comparison there.

For some reason, of all the bullet manufacturers, Speer bullets always seem to be the least available. At least in my area.

If most of you are like me, and I'm guessing you are, whenever your on a hunting trip, you visit the local gun shops.

On my lat trip to Maine, I found 4 boxes (of 100) of OLD Speer .375 caliber 285 grain bullets. New old stock. The original price sticker was $5.50 a box, but they were priced at $25. I bought all he had (4 boxes) for $80, and got the best groups with them I ever got out of my Sako AV 375 and Win 760.

I understand that Speer has started making this bullet again under the Grand Slam name, but are in boxes of 50...

I always look for Speer bullets, the 375 in particular, but they just ain't available!

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
I actually have many Speer bullets on my reloading bench. My beef with them is they don't think things through.

They roll out the DeepShock. Ooops it's too expensive the make. Let's discontinue.

They change the GrandSlam from a dual core design in to nothing more than a Mag-tip with a slightly better BC BUT continue to price it like a Partition.

They discontinue the Magtip.

They roll out the DeepCurl and announce it is replacing the beloved Hot-Cor.

Ooops the DeepCurl has over pressure issues and is dangerous. Let's discontinue and give you back the Hot-Cor.

Now we are back to the same Hot-Cors and BTSPs they have made for decades. I'm perfectly fine with that but stop creating chaos for your customers.

If you can't innovate, follow Sierra's model. You get Varmint, Target, Pro-Hunters and Gamekings. They will roll out a few different bullets every few years but you can count on them to have the bullets you like.

The Deep Shok never went away. The old dual core GS went away and the Deep Shok became the new GS. Of course you wont hear that from Speer. But a simple cut away of each bullet will confirm it.

Speer used to be my favorite manufacturer. But when they sold out to ATK a lot of things changed. Chaos ensued, prices went up and overall value dropped IMO.

I happily stocked up on some mag tips before they all went away. And certain hot cores that I like. But otherwise I have moved on.

P.A. Frank has a good point as well. Many of my local outlets have always steered away from selling Speers for some reason, and sometimes acquiring them meant a special trip for me.

One of the problems we have had in NZ over the years was supply of reloading components, or more precisely, consistent supply, so when I was doing a lot of shooting and reloading, the latter for many others too, I had to use what was available at the time. I used a lot of Hornady, Speer, Sierra and Norma in a range of cartridges in various rifles; 30-06, 270, 7mm + magnums, 308, 303, 243, 222, and a few other cartridges. All seemed to perform well enough on red deer, chamois, tahr and feral goats.

My own hunting experience almost exclusively using the 7x61 S&H cartridge once graduating from my first little 32 Remington pump gun, was that the Sierra 160gr Gameking at 3000fps MV just couldn't be beat for consistent accuracy, pressure and performance (including penetration right through which I want) in our variety of game at both close and long range.

Nosler Pt gave early pressure signs and not the accuracy I wanted, the Hornadys of the day (139gr and 154gr spire points) did not always penetrate through even on the lighter chamois and feral goats, Speers just seemed to be there in performance but never the accuracy, Norma - certainly the 160gr SPBT in the 7x61 S&H factory ammo was great killer and other calibres usually using the steel jacketed SPBT style bullet seemed to perform well in the cartridges I loaded for.

I have also been privy to seeing a good selection of cartridges reloaded using various styles of bullets in the RWS, Sako and Hertenberger ranges and used both here in NZ and in Germany, some I used myself in Germany to shoot Roe deer. Nothing much impressed me there in fact some were downright poor (RWS cone points for instance). In later years I have observed and heard of the results achieved using a range of the 'modern' bullets now available from various manufacturers. These are all readily available here in NZ and they are all tried on our game, some in very expensive setups at long range on bull tahr etc and I have seen nothing achieved that impresses me at all and nothing that a Sierra bullet won't achieve under the same circumstances with less drama and cost and likely even more effectively.


Now with 55 odd years of shooting and reloading, I just continue to use Sierra bullets. They have generally always been available here at better prices than most and do not change in style and performance as has been alluded to in other posts here.

If I lived in Australia (instead of just visiting every chance I get)it would take a lot to pry me off your very own Woodleighs for general purpose hunting bullets. Seeing American made bullets listed for double what we pay for them is flinch inducing, but that aside the Woodleigh is a very effective hunting bullet in its own right.

I have used Speer bullets on varmints and medium game with very good success. The TNT bullets in particular have been very accurate, in fact many Speers have been more accurate than Hornadys etc. I attributed this to the longer full-caliber shank compared to others (BTs excluded).

That said, the game rifles I have used them in are not very high velocity, most under 2600 fps MV. But for that use the HotCore bullets have given great penetration an good expansion. Recovered bullets show a smaller mushroom diameter than typical CNC bullets.



.

I probably shot a bucket each of the Speer .224 52 grain HP and the 6mm 80 grain spitzers at various and sundry varmints. Their 120 grain .257 was a long time favorite of mine in the 257 Roberts. I shot several deer with it. I shot a lot of 30 caliber 165, 180 and 200 grain Hot Cores in the 308, 30-06 and 300 H&H. They all worked great. I kind of drifted away from them when I got to where I could afford Nosler Partitions and use them almost exclusively in several rifles. I honestly cannot think of a time when a Speer Hot Core failed me. They are a good bullet when used within reasonable velocities.

I was disappointed to see Speer's apparent ambivalence toward the reloading fraternity. For a while it seemed they were not all that interested in us any more.

I still buy Speer Hot Cores when I see some I think I might use. They seem to show up at guns shows and online fairly regularly.

I haven't seen Speer bullets anywhere for years.

The 50gr TnT's were a favorite of mine, until I stocked up on 500 of them. Total garbage. I might as well have been shooting rock salt. All they are good for now it fireforming brass and fouling barrels.

I also had a box of 180gr Grand Slams that wouldn't shoot at any depth in 4 different .30 cal rifles.

The only bullet left that I really liked was the 160gr 7MM Mag-Tip, and they are discontinued.

I saw some new production Speer bullets at the store, and they wanted as much for 35 year old designs as other companies new bullets that shot way better. I have no need to buy anymore Speer bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
I actually have many Speer bullets on my reloading bench. My beef with them is they don't think things through.

They roll out the DeepShock. Ooops it's too expensive the make. Let's discontinue.

They change the GrandSlam from a dual core design in to nothing more than a Mag-tip with a slightly better BC BUT continue to price it like a Partition.

They discontinue the Magtip.

They roll out the DeepCurl and announce it is replacing the beloved Hot-Cor.

Ooops the DeepCurl has over pressure issues and is dangerous. Let's discontinue and give you back the Hot-Cor.

Now we are back to the same Hot-Cors and BTSPs they have made for decades. I'm perfectly fine with that but stop creating chaos for your customers...

I changed Scott's text to red because I'm desperate to find out something about these bullets.

Can they be used and, if so, what loads are appropriate for the 338WM with 225-grain DeepCurls and RE-19, H4350/AR2209 or H4831/AR2213sc?

If they are not safe to use, was there a recall?

I've emailed Speer but they've not answered at all.

Sambar
We are shooting 90 grain Speer Deep Curls in my sons .243, no problems no issues, very impressive accuracy and he ran one through a pretty nice Mule Deer Buck at about 230 yards and it dropped on the spot. Entered a few ribs back cleaved open the top of the heart and exited low shoulder far side.
I bought a stockpile of them.

I just picked up 4 boxes of 165gr GS bullets for a friends 30-06. They shot well, were quite reasonable ($15/50) and since this is a deer only rifle I expect they will work just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Bren7X64:
Hi all,

Just an observation from what I see here.

I've used Speer bullets for years with total satisfaction on just about every class of plains game, except Zebra and giraffe.

I have had total satisfaction from the ordinary Speer Hot Core, as well as the Grand Slam and Magtip - the boat-tails not quite so much, but they do warn they are softer.

Now I see people on here who talk about the Hornady Interlock as though they are pretty good, but to me they appear to be nothing more than large calibre varmint bullets.

So, I suppose what I'm asking is why the non-mention of Speer and the liking for Hornady?

The .338 Win Mag, 250g Hornady spire pt. over a case full of IMR4831 is my go to Moose & Bear round, BUT we do have good sized varmint's in my area Speer are not quite as accurate in my junk ruger If you can't put it in the pump station none will work!!

Many years ago, there was Sierra, Speer and Hornady.

Nosler came along, then Barnes.

Suddenly there are so many bullets available for hunting that are superior to anything the first three manufacturers had ever offered.

Not sure about what is going on now, but I suspect that these companies, which started off by individuals proudly making what they thought was the best they can.

And in their days did a fantastic job.

Then they were taken over by big companies, who only care about profits.

And they find themselves left out.

I visited their factory about 40 years ago.

They were a great bunch of people.

Thanks guys,
in case you didn't see my post on the 'Tribulations' thread, I bought the Speer DeepCurls from the local shop because an old Alliant manual said the Speer plain-base slugs could give the highest velocities in 225-grain bullets, using RE-19 powder.

I'd never heard of DeepCurl before but, on opening the box, discovered they had a concave base and came with a card saying ordinary reloading tables were invalid with these bullets - that I should access the Speer website for the correct loads.

Trouble is, as the age of this thread shows, DeepCurls are an obsolete line now and Speer appears to have deleted any advice on how to load them. Worse still, they seem in no hurry to answer my email on the matter.

I could possibly take the opened packet back to the shop but, with recent restrictions here because a surge in sales made nanny-staters jump to domestic-violence conclusions (rather than preparation for the Covid19 zombie apocalypse ), the owner is possibly doing it hard and may not even bother opening.

So, if anyone has any advice on how I can get value from these strange beasts, I'd be glad to hear it.

While I have used some Speer bullets in handguns, I'm pretty conservative with changing something that works.

I am one of those guys who demands an exit from my bullets if possible, so I pretty much use only premiums on game. The amount of ammo I shoot at game more or less is a non factor financially to me. A box of hunting bullets lasts several years for my north american stuff- I think I have been using the same box of TTSX for my deer load for 5 years now. Sight in, and verify zero is maybe 5 shots a year, and if I am lucky, 1-2 for blood a year. So, essentially I don't use cup and cores on game.

For varmints and target use, basically I shoot Sierra stuff, and until I can't find it or they diddle with it and it doesn't work anymore, it will continue to stay that way.

Back when (20-30 years ago) I tried some Hornady, some Sierra, and some Speer. The Sierras shot the best, and I have stuck with it.

quote:

Originally posted by tsturm:
... The .338 Win Mag, 250g Hornady spire pt. over a case full of IMR4831 is my go to Moose & Bear round, BUT we do have good sized varmint's in my area Speer are not quite as accurate in my junk ruger If you can't put it in the pump station none will work!!

Yeah, I'm with you. For 40 years I hardly used anything lighter than 250-grainers. But recently I bought 9.3x62 for forest hunting with 286 and (maybe) 300-grain bullets and hoped to keep the 338 for long shots across certain good gullies. I know the heavy bullets retain energy better at extreme ranges but I just wanted some load that would shoot flat out to about 350 yards so I could take shots without needing a rangefinder (beyond the the picket-and-sidebars subtension on the old Nickel, at least ).

In the 1980's Speer was the bullet to go to in South Africa. However since Nosler, Berger, Hornady and Norma became more available there there is no shop in our area that stock them anymore.

With Norma I use the Oryx which is a bonded bullet and gives excellent performance.

With Nosler I use the Ballistic Tip for working our a load and then I use the Accubond for hunting. The construction of the BT and the Accubond are the same. The BT is also fine for hunting, but meat damage is more that that of the Accubond.

With Hornady I had used the Interbond, but they had become scares these days.

Warning! Notes: COAL tested: 3.315"; max. case length: 2.500"; trim-to length: 2.490"; max cart. OAL: 3.340"; RCBS shell holder: #4; cart. case: Federal; primer: Fed 215; test firearm: Universal Receiver; barrel length: 24"
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt.
Bullet
Powder Manufacturer
Powder
Charge
Velocity (FPS)
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
Alliant
Power Pro 4000-MR
68.0
2667
Remarks: start charge
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
Alliant
Power Pro 4000-MR
72.0
2812
Remarks: max charge
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
Alliant
RL-19
70.0
2660
Remarks: start charge
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
Alliant
RL-19
74.0
2802
Remarks: max charge
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
Alliant
RL-17
64.0
2612
Remarks: start charge
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
Alliant
RL-17
68.0
2780
Remarks: max charge
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
IMR
IMR-4350
63.5
2564
Remarks: start charge
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
IMR
IMR-4350
67.5
2738
Remarks: max charge
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
Alliant
RL-15
56.5
2520
Remarks: start charge
225
Speer DeepCurl SP
Alliant
RL-15
60.5
2670
Remarks: max charge

Thanks TJAY, that is exactly the sort of stuff I want. Is that from official Speer info?

If so, I expected the RE-19 starting load to be even lower. Unfortunately I don't expect to get near 74 grains as my rifle seems to have tight dimensions - or else I'm just chicken.

Speer bullets, YES.

I was lucky enough to go with my Father over to the Speer plant in 1973, and we had Vernon give us the full tour, WOW

Ever since have used them in calibers from 22 to 35.
Have shot a lot of the 165 gr Hot cores in .308 and 250 gr in .358, and yet to recover one that the jacket came off.

But the past few decades yes they have been getting harder and harder to find.

Then the Deep Curl issue OMG, I have a 1000 of their 180 gr .308 deep curls and the only way I think I can use them is to Moly lube them and shoot them in my 300 BO

I did shoot one white tail with a 165 gr .308 boat tail bullet, and YES way more meat damage than a hot core, or maybe it was simply too close, about 75 yds
The same boat tail bullet preformed very well on a Prong Horn at 340 yds

Sierra, I have to laugh at them.

My Father still has a copy of the letter he wrote to Sierra about making a .358 bullet in a 225 gr weight with possibly a boat tail.
Their response was NO WAY, the bullet would not be long enough for that weight and a boat tail.
A year after Remington brought the 35 Whelen, Sierra brings that bullet they said would not work, and it has done very well

Just my 2 cents.
J Wisner

i like their .475 400 "pistol" bullets for hunting hogs in my 470

$$$ Last year Midway had Speer bullets on sale at 10% off and Speer had a 20% rebate. I think I saw on Midway Speer again has a 20% rebate til the end of the month?

I use Speer bullets for a few loads and have had good luck with them. As far as I know only Speer and Horn. make .32 WS bullets. I shoot the Speer for practice (cheaper) but switch to Horn. for game (like the bullet better in this load).

I needed to load some M1 ammo, several hundred rounds, for a public shoot and the above sale let me load some nice bullets cheaper than I could find FMJ. They shot very well!

quote:

Originally posted by J Wisner:
Speer bullets, YES.
...
Then the Deep Curl issue OMG, I have a 1000 of their 180 gr .308 deep curls and the only way I think I can use them is to Moly lube them and shoot them in my 300 BO

I did shoot one white tail with a 165 gr .308 boat tail bullet, and YES way more meat damage than a hot core, or maybe it was simply too close, about 75 yds
The same boat tail bullet preformed very well on a Prong Horn at 340 yds

Sierra, I have to laugh at them.

My Father still has a copy of the letter he wrote to Sierra about making a .358 bullet in a 225 gr weight with possibly a boat tail.
Their response was NO WAY, the bullet would not be long enough for that weight and a boat tail.
A year after Remington brought the 35 Whelen, Sierra brings that bullet they said would not work, and it has done very well

Just my 2 cents.
J Wisner

Thanks JW, so you have the same tables that TJAY, copied?

What do you know about the DeepCurls that make you so nervous, and where would you get the Moly lube to coat them?

I find your story about the 35 Whelen interesting. While the boattail could reduce contact with the barrel, it would also lengthen the bullet, making it more likely to stabilise in rifling made for 250-grainers. The irony is of course Remington's tendency to provide rifling too slow for heavy projectiles. Maybe Speer realised this and re-evaluated what bullets would work.

Mighty old thread.
Still lots of 'current info".

What bugs me is you guys still
shooting eating animals in the
MEAT. Why??

Nothing to eat on the ribs, and
that's the most effective shot
there is other than a head shot.

Shooting them in the ribs/lungs,
won't destroy a shoulder or any
other edible meat.

Just common sense guys.

George

sambarman338

Yes original speer deep curl data

Starting load 70 gr.
Max 74 gr.

I use many other bullets. But Speer makes a .500 325 gr bullet and it is the one I use in my 50 AE right now. Be Well, Packy.