Well, i did a search and basically came up with the time that pecos nearly succeeded in killing a troll ...

So, Who's got smokeless loads for the 45-120 ... and lets not hear about weak cases, as I have sectioned norma 45-120 and rp 45/70... the 120 MIGHT be a hair thicker.



I am specifically looking for 405rems, 400gr woodliegh PP or hornady 500gr loads

thanks
jeffe

I've sectioned Bell 45 Basic and Starline 500 S&W brass, the Bell is thicker!! Can't help ya with the loads other that what's published by Hodgdon with H4895, and Accurate's 5744, I've shot both, the 5744 isn't position sensitive, the H4895 is. I discussed some heavier loads for my 45-120 H&R Buffalo Classic with Ed Hubel, you might give him a PM on it, I haven't followed thru with his recommendation yet, but it's substantially more than 31kpsi!!

LOL, I saw the same thing when i sectioned the 45/70 cases.. and I load those to marlin levels.

great, i'll be the 45-120 inovator, and, unlike garrett, I'll have a case with capacity to do it with!

its not like I have any money invested in my 45/70 HR rifle...

i could put a barrel on my "mule" enfield and work from there... may do that..

jeffe

The latest Lyman book has smokeless loads for the 45-120.
C.G.B.

I don't have that one.. however, are they nitro for black (500gr at 150fps ish) or actaul smokeless loads

jeffe

,,,,,,,What is the case capicity difference between it and the 450 3 1/4" ???????Can you just use Nitro data ,,,,Or start with 458 Win mag data and work up .....

45-120 case capacity is 114gr water, 450 NE is 119gr. 450 NE data isn't easy to find, but I did find some listed in an ADI .pdf as well as on the ADI website, they also list data for the 45-120 including several Hodgdon powders. Hodgdon is known to rename their powders, so you're on your own there.


http://ammoguide.com/?catid=446

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=152

http://chasse-tir.ifrance.com/Tables%20Poudres%20ADI.pdf

http://www.thalesgroup.com.au/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp

http://www.thalesgroup.com.au/handloaders-guide/rifle.asp

Wrongtarget,
Thanks for the ADI data, I hadn't found that. Mike Haas (ammo guide) uses a slightly different techinque to determine h20, I have a couple cases on there, and his reports are smaller than my weighed results.

In the double rifles forum here, i have a thread on the 45/70 vs the 450NE or 45/120 .. the 120 comes out a virtual twin of the 450 NE in volume...

I think i'll just get a barrel for my mule (an enfield action/stock step for straight barrels and do some load dev

jeffe

I'll check some of mine, I think I have some that I haven't touched since the last range trip.

thx,

Tim

LOL, what a brain cramp ... i barrel blank would cost me about $150 (for anyone other than AB) and since I STINK at square threads, well, 200 bucks all together...

and I can get another 45/70 barrel for like 75 on my handirifle...

yeah, that...

Just for fun, I'm learning to use Quick Load 3.4 that I just got, here's some calculated data for a hot 45-120 smokeless load in an H&R Buffalo Classic 32" barrel, based on my 45-120 fired brass which holds 124.4gr water. The 2775fps is based on a Quick Load prediction for a max load of H4350 with a 102% fill and 98% burn, about as good as it gets at a max pressure of <50kpsi which is right at 500 S&W operating pressure. The velocity is within the operating parameters of the 350gr X bullet in a 458 Lott according to the Barnes #3, in fact in the 460 Whby, it's loaded to 3000fps. Exterior ballistics calculated with Sierra Inf 5.1

Tim

Trajectory for Barnes .458 dia. 350 gr. X at 2775 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.402 0.402 0.402 0.402 0.402
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1960 1960 1960 1960
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0 Cross Range: 0.0 Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 500 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Bullet Path Wind Drift Time of Flight
(Yards) (Ft/Sec) (Ft/Lbs) (Lb-Sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (Seconds)
0 2775.0 5983.6 4.31 0.0 -1.5 0.0 0.000000000
25 2718.9 5744.1 4.23 -0.14 0.13 0.0 0.027304499
50 2663.5 5512.6 4.14 -0.58 1.48 0.0 0.055174416
75 2608.9 5288.6 4.05 -1.32 2.51 0.0 0.083626047
100 2554.9 5071.9 3.97 -2.38 3.23 0.0 0.112676545
125 2501.5 4862.4 3.89 -3.78 3.61 0.0 0.142343627
150 2448.8 4659.4 3.81 -5.52 3.64 0.0 0.172646633
175 2396.6 4463.1 3.72 -7.63 3.32 0.0 0.203605887
200 2345.1 4273.3 3.64 -10.11 2.61 0.0 0.235241949
225 2294.3 4089.9 3.57 -12.98 1.51 0.0 0.267576101
250 2244.0 3912.7 3.49 -16.27 0.0 0.0 0.300630774
275 2194.3 3741.5 3.41 -20.0 -1.94 0.0 0.334429621
300 2145.3 3576.1 3.33 -24.17 -4.34 0.0 0.368997363
325 2096.9 3416.4 3.26 -28.81 -7.21 0.0 0.404359618
350 2049.1 3262.5 3.18 -33.95 -10.57 0.0 0.440542825
375 2001.9 3114.1 3.11 -39.61 -14.44 0.0 0.477574287
400 1955.4 2971.1 3.04 -45.8 -18.86 0.0 0.515482255
425 1909.6 2833.5 2.97 -52.57 -23.85 0.0 0.554295978
450 1864.4 2701.1 2.90 -59.93 -29.44 0.0 0.594045651
475 1820.0 2573.8 2.83 -67.92 -35.65 0.0 0.634762272
500 1776.3 2451.7 2.76 -76.56 -42.51 0.0 0.676477433

I don't have the newest quickload, as they want major coin to upgrade from "disk" to "cd" versions.

i would be more interested in the rem 405gr at 30k psi, about 3.9" long, from 23.5" barrels..

if you don't mind?

That short barrel is difficult to work with!! Best powders are Hodgdon Hybrid 100V, H4350 and H4895, I'll PM you the load data.

Trajectory for Remington .458 dia. 45-120-3¼ Sharps Straight, 405 gr. SP at 2025 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.281 0.281 0.281 0.281 0.281
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 1064 1064 1064 1064
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0 Cross Range: 0.0 Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 500 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Bullet Path Wind Drift Time of Flight
(Yards) (Ft/Sec) (Ft/Lbs) (Lb-Sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (Seconds)
0 2025.0 3687.0 3.64 0.0 -1.5 0.0 0.000000000
25 1958.2 3447.8 3.52 -0.27 0.63 0.0 0.037663587
50 1892.8 3221.3 3.40 -1.11 2.19 0.0 0.076620256
75 1828.8 3007.2 3.29 -2.55 3.15 0.0 0.116931987
100 1766.3 2805.1 3.18 -4.65 3.46 0.0 0.158662873
125 1705.3 2614.8 3.07 -7.44 3.07 0.0 0.201878326
150 1646.1 2436.2 2.96 -10.97 1.94 0.0 0.246644404
175 1588.6 2269.0 2.86 -15.31 0.0 0.0 0.293027270
200 1532.9 2112.7 2.76 -20.51 -2.8 0.0 0.341092684
225 1479.2 1967.4 2.66 -26.63 -6.52 0.0 0.390903818
250 1427.6 1832.6 2.57 -33.75 -11.24 0.0 0.442519416
275 1378.3 1708.1 2.48 -41.94 -17.02 0.0 0.495992462
300 1331.3 1593.6 2.39 -51.26 -23.94 0.0 0.551367789

just rechambered a 45/70 handirifle to 45-120 .. 6.25# ..we'll see what happens next week

If a .458 Win Mag is a .45 X 2.5" with a belt and a .458 Lott is a .45 X 2.8" with a belt doesn't that give you a hint of where to start. After all with a single shot the brass is sunk into the barrel. With a bolt gun you usually have .100" of the head hanging out into the the wild blue.
But no Sharps allowed......

Hello,

Check Accurate powder website, they have loads for 45-120 (2 7/8" and 3 1/4") using lead and jacketed bullets with 5744 powder. It is in the online reloading manual under obsolete rifle loads.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rif...ght%20page%20365.pdf
Hope link above works
Regards
nitro450exp

thanks guys... the 5744 is a powder I have only used in 577 ne cases.. its pretty darn good for high fill rate/low pressure loads.. just trying to get 2100fps out of it

i loaded some rem405 over rel22 and i4895, nothing over 34Kpsi, or about 32k cup.

we shall see
jeffe

got rem 405s to 1800 with rel22 ..

You really can't get 2000 fps from the 405 grainer at 30k? The 45-70 can almost do it at 40k, I thought that 405 grainer would be easy!


Is there any reason you couldn't go to 50k like the 500 S&W? I would be interested in getting a handi rifle and a 30" barrel in 45-120, my 45-70 is great, but 500+ fps on velocity would be nice. 300 grain HP's at almost 3000 fps? Bombs on deer...

22" barrel in my rechambered handirifle, first outing with 45-120 smokeless loads, and yes, there's lots of reasons not to go over 30kpsi, .. i am building a double rifle off a shotgun, and i want the bolt thrust to be the same for the 45/120 as a factory load for a recent 20ga, and well under proof loads.. i don't want to proof it with every shot!!

i know i can just the pressure up and get there with any powder.. i am interested in doing it correctly, not just pouring more gas on it...

quote:

Originally posted by cgbach:
The latest Lyman book has smokeless loads for the 45-120.
C.G.B.

So do the previous three......

I meant in a Handi-Rifle is there any reason not to use 50k loads? If so, how hot could you go in the Handi-Rifle? It's mind boggling but the 45-70 is still right with the 45-120 at 10k higher pressures.

How did the loads turn out? How many grains of RL 22 did you use, and what about a filler?

If RL 22 works good I could use it for my 6mm and 45-120.

Rocky and I did some pressure testing and load dev on the 45-120 in an enfield mule...

yes, i KNOW it's not a double gun, presure, blah blah...

but the brass FELL OUT of the chamber, with only tapping the buttstock on the bench... as we had no extractor and no cleaning brush (got in a hurry)...

ALL of these FELL OUT of the chamber... round primers, etc etc etc...

rem 405 at 2393 4320 powder
horn 500 at 2121 4831 powder
speer 350 at 2387 3031 powder

all will be posted in ammoguide
jeffe

I'm not a member there, some loads look very hot, I don't want to be tempted. How many grains of powder did you use for those loads?

They would be fine in a Buffalo Classic, correct? Recoil was like...?

Sorry tyler,
These are experimental loads, that would probably not be safe in an original rifle, and are therefore only going to be listed on ammoguide. I am not pimping ammoguide, just making it darn clear that these are high pressure than what a sharps is designed for.
jeffe

Hey everybody. I am Rocky the owner of the
45-120 Enfield Mule. Asking about recoil, well out of the 14 pound Enfield it was not too bad from the shoulder. I also rechambered a Thompson Encore 45-70 BBL. to 45-120. The whole rifle weighed only 5 3/4lb. and recoil was off the chart with the 500 grain load, First shot from my lead sled tore the forend right off the rifle, which ended the testing for the day. However the 350gr load was heavy but not too bad from the shoulder. This is going to make a nice light Hog smashing rifle and will give recoil junkies (Jeffe) all the recoil they want. As for the top load on the 500gr bullets the brass and primer showed no visual sign of high pressure and may be able to push the 500 even faster.
Rocky

baught a 45-120? almost. was originally a 45-70 with a ruger #1 falling block auction. Barrell was removed and replaced by a Douglass Preminum , air gauged Barrel. Was original built buy a gun smith, very well know in black power; actually intrested in it as a collectors item , when the gun smith passed away, but unforntunatlly, he did not sign it and has passed. The gun smiths ream would not completelly fit the 120 specifications so is a 1/16 of an inch shy of the 4.250 length by a 1/16 of an inch 45-199? all the forums suggest 65g max of imr powder. I have shot over 150 rds. of imr at 98g and 95g respectivelly. was the gun smiths, advice and load specifications. After reading many posts, I am completely affraid to post, what my 45-120 loves as a load. Would respectfully as for more imput from members. these load of 98 grains of IMR POWER IS THE CLEANEST CARTIAGE, of some 15 different rifles I shoot. absolutelly no 1 grain of unburned powder. am able to reload the shell black powder style and have a reloaded cartidge, if i wanted, in the field. Am litertelly affraid to say what primer and powder it is, but the gun loves it. would appreciate a littler feedback and discussion on this 45-120 load before posting it; thanks and god bless