http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29287057/
Here's a proposed solution to the Texas pig problem .It seems that this was one of the solutions to solve the coyote problem, that didn't work too well.

Anyone priced an hour's worth of flight time in a chopper lately? Maybe someone's pockets are deep enough to "enjoy" this, but not me.

I don't know much about the situation regarding pigs in Texas, but if you guys value pigs as a game animal, then fight it tooth and nail!
If it go's ahead theres a chance that your hunting will suffer as pig numbers drop, and the companys offering this sort of thing get the idea that they have rights over the ordinary hunter. When pigs become a valuable commodity, you will have choppers flying over the top of you and bombing up the hunting ahead as happens over here with most of our game speicies. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Bring it on......the costs will stop most people from using it.....I've seen videos of shoots from a chopper, seemed like the ultimate shoot to me....I'd pay for it in a second but don't know how many "seconds" I could afford.

In addition, it won't work well in the eastern parts of the state where the cover is higher and heavier.

I don't think it will ever work here in SW Arkansas for the same reasons Gatogordo gave. I wish they would find something that would put a dent in the population. as we just have too many to control with hunting and traps.

They are hard on the farmer/rancher, and the wildlife.

Every once in a while "pig chollera" (spelling??) will go through a region and kill every pig very quickly. I believe the last time it spread through east Texas was 40 years ago. Problem is it gets into the domestic stock as well. That is the only thing I know of that will control these animals.
25 years ago I would have died and gone to heaven to shoot a nice pig.
These days I go out and spend a week limeing my soil at my farm to get the PH correct; disk up 10-15 acres of land; plant food plots and fertilize and spend thousands of dollars in time and money and a herd of pigs can destroy that work in few days (nights).
When you till the soil; they just go wild; it is so much easier for them to root in loose dirt.
They need to find a way to incorporate a pig birth control in some type of food you spread out for them.

I am hoping the "Helicopter Hog Hunting" meets the same fate as the "InterNet Hunting Scheme"".

As for controlling hogs the figures I heard from a biologist is that 60% of the population would have to be killed off annually to keep them under control, figure out 60% out of an estimated 2 million+ feral hogs in Texas, and that is a lot of oinkers.

There are so many problems with this proposal that it is not even real.

As one person has already mentioned the vegetative cover in east Texas.

Also consider the size of the properties, there might be 20 or 30 landowners involved in a 2500 acre chunk of property.

The field day the 4th. estate and the antis are going to have with this issue, because no one is going to be picking up all those dead pigs.

The potential for some type of disease getting into a watershed/aquifer recharge zone due to all those rotting carcasses.

The amount of methane gas produced in one area due to all those rotting carcasses.

This is another one of them "Good Old Boy" schemes that surfaces from time to time, when the folks in Austin forget this is 2009 and not 1909.

The population of Texas along with some of the political climate has changed in Texas and I forsee a rude awakenig coming for many of our politicians in the next 5 years or so.

I am only remote to the state, my in-laws live there, but it seems to be an economic issue on disposal. What I mean is, if the landowners want the pigs gone, one logical solution is to have more hunters come and shoot them. The problem with that is many-faceted. First is some of the yayhoos that call themselves hunters shooting everything in sight except pigs. Second is that they would like to recoop some of their losses by charging fees, but with the fees I have seen, average me can't afford to travel and take more than a couple, which isn't enough. I'd personally come to Texas and spend some time shooting pigs and taking them to the meat locker, but not for $100 or more each, especially when I would like several small ones rather than one big one. But I do realize that the landowner needs to make something. It's when the landowner says he has a problem but wants $4-500 to hunt that I say "hmmm", but it's their right and I respect that.

One way to control them might be the way they used to control coyotes. Pay a bounty of $10 per ear, but the state doesn't have that kind of money either.

Just thoughts.

Hog shooting from a helicopter has always been legal with the proper permits. I have done it many times using my M16. It's the most fun I've ever had with my pants on. The only thing that will change it that ranchers will be able to charge for their helicopter hog hunts whereas now they can't.

We had a group of shooters who paid for the helicopter. Several neighboring ranchers would let us shoot hogs and coyotes on their property. So we had the run of 20,000 or so acres. The helicopters usually run around $450 an hour plus road milage. So for around $500 you got to shoot for about 45 minutes. Well worth the money in my opinion.

M16's right. There is nothing new about culling pigs from helicopters and even small planes here in TX.

Ranchers have been doing this for many years. The only difference is that now they are allowing hunters to pay for it.

The pigs don't know the difference or care who pays for it.

I know of some ranches that shoot thousands of pigs per year ... literally in the 2k to 4k range depending on the year.

pigs are so prolific that hunting, trapping and culling will not wipe them out. I have seen sows with a dozen piglets. Boars will kill some of them and predators, but there is no stopping the wild hog.

Trapping and culling will effectively, temporarily reduce the numbers. I have seen the effect on hunting when an intensive trapping program is in place.

Nothing will wipe them out. They are here to stay.

Most piglets I've seen with a sow was 16--and I'm not sure that was right as they are about as easy to count as a bunch of 6 year-olds playing soccer.

On my former lease of 615 ac, we adopted a policy of shooting sows first, and when I took paying hunters to the ranch, they had to shoot a sow before I'd let them shoot a boar. Still didn't make even a small dent in the population.

Talked to one of the guys who is still on the place, and he says pig numbers are down 50%--not due to shooting/hunting, but due to the drought. Sows have had only one litter in past 12-15 months, and only 3-5 piglets per litter.

You aren't going to get rid of them, so enjoy them.

There will be limiting factors in some areas of the state, such as drought.

If the program is carried out on properties large enough to keep wounded animals from gettig over on to some place not in the program, and if the possibility of keeping animals from rotting in a water shed or aquifer recharge zone the I see no problem with it.

My question is, have either of those issues been addressed.

There is definitely a problem of an ecological magnitude greater than the introduction of imported fireants, due to the numbers of feral hogs in the state.

I am just ot convinced that Helicopters are the answer, ad again, I look at the field day the 4th. estate and the anti's will have with this, and the negative press should a helicopter crash during one of these hunts and everyone on board is killed.

I believe I may go down to my farm this weekend and look for a place to put a permanent capture pen. Probably 100' x 100'.
If you get the pigs used to coming in to one of these baited pens you can get a bunch in there at one time. Then you can sell them or take target practice (fish in a barrel). Better get it done before it gets hot. Once things start greening up there will be allot for them to eat and they are a little more difficult to bait.

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I look at the field day the 4th. estate and the anti's will have with this, and the negative press should a helicopter crash during one of these hunts and everyone on board is killed.

I know of several helicopter crashes while doing deer surveys, hog and coyote hunting, etc.
It might make the local papers but that is about it. It is dangerous flying low in a helicopter as you cannot autorotate if something happens for a "controlled crash landing" When you are flying at 75 feet or less iit is considered the dead zone for a reason. But as one pilot told me "welcome aboard where we have 5,000 moving parts made by the lowest bidder and if one fails kiss your ass goodbye"

Concerning what the anti's think. Well I really don't give a rat's ass.

Glad you don't give a Rat's Ass, but since it seems like you are amog those not paying attention, the population of texas does not really think the way it did at oe time, look at the recent election, the Republicans just barely won here in the state, but it did ot keep the democrats out of the White House.

Our population is not made up of native born Texans that are or were used to the way business had been being done.

Our population is getting more and more made up of folks that are from places where hunting in general is not as accepted as it once was, especially here in Texas.

I can guarantee you that a 'copter going down during a pig hunt like that is going to get more than local coverage, especially if it happens after this proposed legislation passes.

Can't autorotate at 75' and below? Well, then I must be confused, as I have done hundreds of low-level autorotations during my 20+ year Army flying career. Now, if you are talking about low and slow, as you would be if shooting hogs, etc, then as they say, "Houston, we've got a problem." If you have airspeed, you can trade it off and do a successful autorotation, assuming you are alert and recognize the power loss, get the collective down, and have a suitable landing site within reach.

Assuming he's current, I want dustoffer as my pilot, now if we can only find a ranch with a pig problem to let us shoot on......

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Glad you don't give a Rat's Ass, but since it seems like you are amog those not paying attention, the population of texas does not really think the way it did at oe time,

Oh, I'm paying attention. You see Texas doesn't have referendum voting. Everything has to go before the legislature before the people have a chance to vote on any particular item. People who hunt and own land have a lot of money. Hunting is a billion dollar industry in Texas. So when you have lawmakers who are basically owned by those who benefit from hunting and land ownership making the rules I really don't give a rat's ass about what the anti's think. Money talks and anti bullshit walks.

I understand what you are saying, but the political landscape in Texas is changing.

This is not gonna be a case of anti anything, it is going to be a case of the news media getting ahold of this, and blowing things out of proportion and playing on the publics sympathies.

As is being discussed in another thread elsewhere on here, not everyone that is not in favor of something like this is an anti hunter.

I feel that something needs to be done about the hog problem, I just don't believe that helicopter hunting is the answer except in some certain situations.

I don't see it as a Be All, Do All, End All to the hog problem in Texas.

I think everyone likes to hunt these varmints; It is just the problems they introduce outweigh the benefit.
An epidemic is the only answer. It is a matter of time. It will be quick and lethal.

Chopper are bad things, period. They will spook everything around including cattle that will run over electric fences.

Here there was a guy hunting pigs from a chopper and the police chase him down till he ends using it.

While chasing pigs they were traspassing properties flying low....imagine the mess they were doing with horses and cattle...

I like to hunt pigs not to battle them

L

WHen I lived in Katy, TX, I travelled through the George Bush Park on the way to work. I saw wild pigs regularly in the early mornings on the soccer fields. I also saw a guy that regularly trapped them. I stopped and asked about it. He said it is easier to trap them than shoot them, plus he sold them to a pig farmer to innoculate and fatten for sale. Seemed like a good idea to me.

I have no issue shooting them on sight by any means. But trapping them seems a good idea as well.

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Originally posted by Gatogordo:
In addition, it won't work well in the eastern parts of the state where the cover is higher and heavier.

Heck, it won't work at all on my place in east Texas. It is just too thick, but this is an interesting idea for the rich folks.

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(Moreover, wild boar is said by some to be tough and gamey.)

if this is the depth and quality of reserch done, i am shocked

SHOOTING from jelos is legal, right now, today, with a permit for pest removal.

sure, shoot a bunch of hogs.. at what 150 an hour + fuel, and then insurance?

now, seriously, hogs are going to be the largest animal problem in texas within 10 years.. like wolves in moscow...

put a BOUNTY on them, if you want to get rid of them

I worked for a short time for a helicopter spray operation. One of the sales guys was also a pilot. In his young and foolish days, he owned his own 47G. He sprayed a lot of potatos near Amokaley (Spelling may be off). They had something they called the Amokaley slam, an alligator, a deer, and a pig. He was the only one who got his from the air. The property owner got a visit from the guys in brown shirts. After a lot of serious discussions, his aerial assults returned to killing fungus and beetles. The fellows who owned the farms and the pilot, all told me this story, independently. I really think it could be effective, particularly when your in an area where wildlife is routinely exposed to fly overs.
Spray ops are not done at any real altitude. When our aircraft went down, there wasn't even time to say OH SH...

Bfly

This is an easy problem to solve. (as an Ex-Texan and a consumer of large quantities of Puerco I am highly qualified to comment here) What pigs need is what they had back in the days (medieval days) WOLVES!!! and maybe some large cats....

The "Three Little Pigs" and "The Big Bad Wolf" wasn't a Fairy Tale.

Of course the way to erradicate them completely is to sick the worlds most effective predator on the fat porkers ....a few thousand So-Cal types equipped with NV mounted AR's and a few truck loads of ball ammo...problem solved.

Of course after Obama and his Circus have been "running things" for a few years - those pigs might be the only thing you have to eat ...

TPWD or Texas Parks and Wildlife actually contradict themselves making feral hogs essentially a game animal for there annual public lands hunting on the National Forest lands. Although there is no bag limit there are designated time periods hogs can be hunted on these lands. Private land is not controlled in any manner that I know of. Hunting and trapping has got to be the best method environmentally speaking for the control and removal. That being said, think I'll try to whack a few of them and re-stock the freezer. Rodney.

1. Feral hogs can't be controlled by trapping. Once you trap a few, the others simply learn what the trap is and avoid it. At best, the offtake from trapping might be 10% of the population.

2. Feral hogs can't be controlled by sport shooting. First of all, most hog activity is at night, making sport shooting much less effective. Secondly, and more important, sport shooters always want to shoot the BIGGEST hogs they see first. This is usually a big boar. The big boars are the only effective predator of the piglets. (Yes, Virginia, they do eat their young.) When you shoot the boss hogs out of an area, the survivial rate of the piglets goes astronomical. Shooting big boars just makes more pigs.

3. Aerial shooting of hogs and coyotes has been legal by permit since 1991 in Texas. Believe me, I have good reason to know exactly. It was used for many years prior to that without much interferance from the authorities. Aerial shooting is effective, but it doesn't eradicate the hogs from an area. A handful of survivers can repopulate an area within 18 months (see "shooting big boars" above). Besides, its cost makes it prohibitive for most landowners, thus it doesn't have too much impact.

4. What would be the effect of allowing aerial sport shooting? Some bozo will kill a few cows, a couple of choppers flown by quick buck artists will fly into some highline wires, and not much else. If you really want to shoot from the air, you would be better off making buddies with a pilot who is in the control business and signing on as his shooter. It is the pilot who gets the permit (not that hard to do), and nobody really looks very closely at who is doing the actual shooting.

5. Why, after 400 years of feral hogs in Texas (and the South and Southwest) have they "suddenly" become such a problem? Answer: Disease control. Hogs are subject to many of the same diseases as humans. Improved human public health measures, combined with improved veterinary health measures for domestic stock has cut the rate of fatal hog diseases (cholera, psuedo rabies, etc.) markedly in the feral population. Want to kill off a bunch of feral swine? Import some cholera victims from Zimbabwe and have them defecate on your bait corn.

There are so many Catch-22's involved with the Feral Pig issue in Texas that it is a political as well as ecological nightmare and there are no blanket cures for any of it.

I am sure some will come on here and tell me how wrong I am about this, but I can remember from 30 to 40 years ago when there were very few feral hogs over most of the state.

They were confined in pockets in mainly east Texas and along the coast.

As various things started happening, changes in land use, supplemental feeding of deer, predator control in some areas, climatic conditions modifying, people developing an interest in hunting feral hogs, hogs, being an aggressive-opportunistic species filled a niche in the system that nothing else was able to.

People got to moving pigs around and releasing them on to their properties, including pure strain European Wild Hogs, and then after those animals went to breding, those folks found out that few fences stop pigs if they decide they want thru them.

One of the other problems, and while I do support a lot of the work TP&W does, is that they only have a Guesstimate, and not a real close one in my opinion, as to how many feral hogs are in Texas.

While I don't agree with the Helicopter idea, some will like it and it will help in some situations.

My experiences with feral hogs however makes me tend to believe that once the hogs learn the sound of a helicopter, and get hammered a few times, they will move out of the areas where the helicopters are working, and really cause havoc in the safe zones. JMO.

The feral hog problem is a real problem in many areas including right here where I live. I would much rather see the use of helicopters which I have no problem with, to knock down the numbers rather than the use of poisons or other chemicals. Rodney.

Gatogordo--thanks for the vote of confidence, but it's been about 18 years since I have been at the controls (it was a Blackhawk-UH-60), and a bit more than that since I flew my first love -- a Huey. I could get in a Huey today, start it up, and fly it away with confidence (that is what a couple of thousand hours does for you) but a Blackhawk is a different story. Too many thingies in the cockpit and not enough processor memory or speed in my brain.

I personally do not consider hunting anything other than a spicific problem animal from a chopper, or airplane, to be made legal. By spicific I mean an individule animal that is causing damage or a danger to humans, or livestock! To use such methods to wipe out a whole species is in a word, cowardly, and a waste, and not even a resemblance of hunting!

I vote yes.
And you are right: it is not hunting; it is war.

Being a 6th gen Texican and having tried traps, poison, dogs, aircraft, PH's, night vision etc on a private scale--it needs to expand.

The feral hog population is out of control and apparently almost doubling each year in many parts of the state.

Culling from aircraft is not new in Texas nor other places.

While it may appear distasteful it is necessary and effective; and TPWF and the State of Texas are looking for a way to get out of the cost of the cull. This may help.

A bit off topic: As far as the antis go ,they themselves paid for a cull near Austin (expressly to prevent a "hunt" on "problem" deer a few years back. (or so I was informed by a Texas official) Granted things politically have changed for the worst and the same group now denies any involvement.

All Farmers have to do is allow hunter on their land to shoot all the hogs they want, and thier problem will be over. If they charge high prices for people to hunt them, many fewer will be taken. If free access is offered, the problem will be relieved, and they will save money on less crop damage, or loss of cattle food from their protine feeders, and fence damage. I will be more than happy to spend a lot of money on ammo, and gas to help all I can, as will the whole DRSS crew, I'm sure!

Wish it were that simple:
" Just let hunter's on your land for free"

Been tried.

Even organized driven hunts have failed.

I realize I only have tried to deal with about 6000 total acres in 7 plots, 250 smallest 1800 largest,the first problem is total cooperation of all landowners in the area.

That first problem is due too the real problem:
THE utter lack of respect for others property by the vast majority of "free" hunters.

No one I know will ever again let anyone they don't know and have not thoroughly "vet-ed" on their land again ever ,and with good cause.

So, let's make a compromise

If a owners wants pigs gone, he should offer a daily rate, that is refundable if XYZ things are done. If not, then the hunter is then asked to not return until he's learned respect for others property.

Per pound fees, on free ranging hogs, should not be an option. That's SILLY .. if you want pigs GONE, as for them to be GONE, don't try to recover the loss, prevent new losses

On game ranches, if you are focused on pigs, charge whatever you want. If you want to raise exotics, remember the pigs will eat the young of exotics, and quickly .. a 150# boar has no natural COMMON enemies in texas, one on one, that doesn't have hands or tires.

I am more than willing to aid in hog removals, as well as the rest of the Bubbas. We like hunting hogs, by just about any legal method, and we like eating them. And, frankly, with the economy the way it REALLY is, there's NO PROBLEM gifting meat out to people in need. Trust me, an 18wheeler slap full of hams won't last 10 mins in MOST areas in Houston.

Any landowner out there needing hogs to be BOTH removed and ethically need only to drop me an email and we'll begin that process.

Oh, yeah guys, don't remember, a semi auto 22 with lay down aLOT of "sucking" pigs, which will do FAR more to thin out the herd than taking that one giant boar.

Is it legal to spotlight for pigs in Texas? Trained culling teams shooting at night are very effective in reducing the herds of some antelope species in South Africa.
Would it work for pigs?

There are no restrictions on shooting feral pigs other than to make sure you aren't inside the corporate limits of a town, can't shoot off the right of way of a public road, have to have landowner's permission, and a few others.

As far as using culling teams--studies show you have to remove 80% of the herd (8 out of 10) if you want to maintain the population. To reduce the herd, you have to shoot more than 80% of them. Given the thickness of the brush and vegetation in the areas I've hunted, if you get off two shots you are doing well, and the hogs respond to the hunting pressure by moving to the next ranch. And, ranchers usually don't welcome folks (hunters) with open arms.

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having tried traps, poison, dogs, aircraft, PH's, night vision etc on a private scale--

Before night vision we routinely used artificial lights in our culling .

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other than to make sure you aren't inside the corporate limits of a town,

Actually, depending on the acreage and the town, that is generally but not always true.