IF I were going to shoot pigs with a .223, and I might eventually, I would not use Nosler Partitions. I would opt for a much more conventional cup and core bullet, and I would shoot ribs. I might have a few run, but really suspect the overwhelming majority would fall DRT because the light bullets and thin jackets would probably fragment inside the body cavity, creating instantaneous mush.

Kind of like what I think Gato is talking about watching happen over and over and over!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Gato,

I am glad you are a fact checker and that you find counting accurately important.

I have to admit that I didn't believe your post in Shotgunning before and I apologize. I now feel confident that these are facts and they are accurate.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=363106568#363106568

You fired "well over 30,000" rounds out of your Win 101 in a month and you also reloaded those rounds.

Your post:

"Yes, I said and meant 30,000 shells in a month. I hunted many of those days with friends who shot as much or more than I did, but not as often because they had regular jobs, so I could scrounge up some witnesses if pressed. Once I found the place and met the land owner and manager who were plagued with blackbirds on their rice and liked people shooting them, I would shoot a MINIMUM of 500 shells in the morning and come back and shoot a MINIMUM of 500 shells in the evening, sometimes I'd shoot a thousand, it just depended on flight patterns, weather, etc. This went on for several years, but this particular period was when I got my first 101 and I wanted to test it's durability since I'd just had a bad experience with a Citori. Its been a while and I don't recall the exact acreage, but it was several thousand acres of rice with blackbirds on all of it, and usually I and maybe a friend or three were the only shooters on the place until the word leaked out. BUT I don't think I ever failed to shoot 500 per session with morning and evening sessions a day. How do I know, simple, I'd shoot 500 shells or so, and come home and load up 500 or so more on my PW 800B, takes about an hour and a half for one person, sometimes we'd team up and two can load about 700 shells an hour. Then I'd get up early in the AM, drive the 30 miles south of town and shoot my 500 or so. Then I'd come home, load 500, eat lunch, take a nap, and take 500 more shells back into the fray that afternoon. I always kept at least a thousand shells in back of the truck in case they swarmed me. Roll Eyes It usually took about 2 hours, sometimes a bit more, sometimes less to shoot a case (these were the days of 500 to a case) up. That's only roughly 4 shots a minute, and very often you'd shoot many times that rate."

A 1000 rounds a day on average for 30 days straight is an impressive fact


You also fired 4000 rounds in one day out of the same 101 in Argentina.

Your post:

"My first trip was my most extravagant as far as shells shot.....as I've said in other places, I shot 4000 shells the first day using a 101 (the same one I shot the above mentioned blackbird fields with) and 13,000 that week"

Assuming 14 hours of shooting (2 seven hour sessions), averaging 1 round every 13 seconds for 7 hours straight twice in one day is an impressive fact. If it was 10 hours of shooting then 1 round every 9 seconds or if it was 8 hours of shooting 1 round about every 7 seconds. Not having shot doves in Argentina, I don't know how long the shooting sessions are but regardless 4000 rounds in a day is impressive.


You also killed 20 doves with 25 shots in 20 seconds with the 101.

Your post:

"Sometimes a buddy and I in Argentina, after a mornings shoot down there, when the doves were flying slower but still pretty active (they fly all day but slow down around noon, unlike whitewings which turn on and off like a water faucet) would play a couple of games we invented. One was shoot as many doves as you can in 30 seconds with up to a box of. Best I recall my doing was about 20 killed in 20 seconds with the 25 shots, this with the 101. Time started with first shot. You could run a higher percentage but the time would expire"

Since the clock started with the first shot. That means you fired 2 shots, dismounted the gun, opened the action, grabbed two shells, reloaded, remounted the gun, and fired two aimed shots in less than 3.33 seconds and did that cycle six times in a row. You actually had to do it in less than 3.33 seconds because to fire the 25th shot you would have to reload and almost complete a 7th cycle.

That is another very impressive fact.


Best regards,

I'm glad you believe it (whether you posted tongue in cheek or not) because it's all true. I don't lie and don't have much time for people who do nor morons who try to dictate other's legitimate choices.

Check out Jeff Wemmer's post where he killed over 12,000 doves in 4 days with 2 SXSs, shooting 15,000 shells, which is pretty amazing but not near the record. My trip above was 6 days of shooting IIRC. It was my first trip and that was over 25 years ago. My doctor buddy and I were "front running" the main group which came with us after our first couple of days of shooting (we combined trips duck/goose and then dove, the 2 locations were a long ways apart in Argentina)so had a 4 day "rest" period in middle). Our guide who worked for Trek offered us the opportunity to go hunting, so he could scout the area, or to stay in Buenos Aires. We went hunting. I slowed down after the first day, shot 13,000 shells for the trip.

I'm not sure what the current "record" is for one day's shooting, but I've heard rumors of well over 5000 doves by one shooter.

In Texas the normal method of hunting deer and hogs is to spread 10 pounds of corn in front of your elevated box blind and shoot a deer or a hog that you've been feeding for several months while resting your rifle on the window sill to make this difficult 25 or 50 yard shot. If the angle isn't perfect for a double lung shot just wait they'll be eating corn and aren't going anywhere for a while. They're not talking about 250-400 yard shots without a rest like hunting in the California mountains or 50 yard running shots in the swamps such as occurs in most hog hunting areas. Most areas of Texas a buck or a pig seldom weighs more than 150 pounds on the hoof. Sometimes much smaller. So a .223 at 50 yards is normally sufficient.

This is reminding me of the scene in the Jim Carey movie Liar, Liar where he beats himself up. Quite entertaining.

LWD

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
J
Speaking of hog bullets thanks for the good deal. may put your 180's into play out of a helo later this week.

Perry

You're welcome, Bro.

I'll be looking out for a hunt report, Good Luck!

I'm not beating myself up, I won't bother hunting deer or hogs in Texas.

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:
This is reminding me of the scene in the Jim Carey movie Liar, Liar where he beats himself up. Quite entertaining.

LWD

You really are an ignorant SOB, you'd think a lawyer who was any good at all would keep his mouth shut when he doesn't know what he's talking about. Obviously you don't.

For those who want to read about some good shooting, here's a link to Jeff Wemmer's thread....Wemmer in ArgentinaI suppose you think he's lying too.

I can't swear this is true, because I wasn't there doing the counting but I have no real reason to doubt it. From Los Chanares web site: Bold emphasis mine:

quote:

Our property's record was held by Chuck Rod of Houston, TX who shot 5,014 birds using 262 boxes in 1 day in February 2004. Chuck woke up at 6 a.m. and shot all day with two loaders and a counter. On January 13, 2008, Russell Pagel from Houston, TX shattered the single day bird mark by shooting 6,015 birds on 7,250 rounds. Russell finished shooting at 6pm with 3 hours of daylight still remaining.

On February 12, 2009, Eric Hellbach from Houston, TX set the new record shooting 7,069 birds on 9,000 rounds. Russell Pagel plans to visit the property in 2010 to take the record to a new level.

Why don't you do the math on those, Mike?

I don't know any of those guys, but they can sure shoot and lots of it.

Just to add to your "conviction", I really shot more than 30,000 shells in that month, 500 per session AM and PM was my minimum, if they were flying good, often I'd shoot more, I'd never leave the house with less than 1000 reloads. Again, I was one of the first in that area with access to those rice fields and I made hay while the sun shined, so to speak. I shot almost everyday at that rate for over 6 weeks until they started harvesting the rice. I didn't keep exact shell counts, hell, they were just shotgun shells and I and a couple of my friends shot them like eating popcorn, it takes a lot to fill you up.

When I was in Argentina on the above 4000 shell day trip, the record in a different part of Argentina was supposed to be about 3300 birds (which shows you how long ago this was, early 80s) but that was hearsay. We were the first American hunters who ever hunted in this particular area, outside of Parana, my bird "boys" were a father and son team, about 55 and 35 or so who had no concept of why anyone would shoot doves, much less how anyone would go about it. I'm guessing I ran about 70% maybe more, which would have made my kill about 2800 that day. Nowadays they use counters and don't pick up any doves until the shooter quits. Back then there might have been 3 or 4 companies running trips to Argentina, now there is one behind every bush or so it seems.

Gato,

Happy to do the math. The only math worth doing is the on 5014 birds using 262 boxes or 6550 rounds. The reason for that is that it specifies two loaders were used.

Obvioulsy using two loaders makes a very big difference in the feasability of the number.

Assuming a 15 hour shooting day 6550 rounds is one round every 8.25 seconds for 15 straight hours.

When you shot your 4000 was that with a single Win 101 without a loader?

Absolutely, one shooter, one loader, me. You kind of neglected the 9000 round day or the 7,250 in 12 hours or less.

People who haven't been there don't believe it. You're typical.

BTW it is not at all obvious that using 2 loaders is that big of an improvement, they have to hand the shotguns back and forth. It may make it a little easier on the shooter and it may be somewhat faster with semi-autos, but is isn't significantly faster with doubles, I am not sure, never tried it, but for it to be much faster you'd have to have a really good loader. Perhaps Los Chanares does, never been there.

I haven't talked to him personally, but based on his posts, I believe Jeff was shooting his SxS without a loader and shot 4000 doves on a couple of days which means that he shot about 4600 rounds while having a good time, smoking a cigar or two and drinking a few beers and almost certainly taking a lunch break.

Gato,

Didn't neglect the 9000 rounds in one day at all. The data is not comparable as the number of guns and whether it is with or without loaders is not specified nor is the length of day specified. There is actually no time specified for the 9000 rounds. It simply says 1 day. Therefore, I did no analysis as there are two many variables unaccounted for.

You will note in my post that I had to assume that the 6550 rounds was a 15 hour day.


BTW, I assume your Win 101 was a 12 ga?

Swampshooter,

That most emphatically was NOT directed at you. It did, however, have the desired effect on someone else.

Regards,

LWD

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
If you are a archer, take your bow along with your rifle. It is fun to stick em'
Just use cheap arrows! Pigs are not worth a $20.00 arrow.

EZ

BLASPHEME!

Have only hunted hogs in Europe..but I'm waiting for the "plague" down in Texas to reach us here on the east coast.

The minimum acceptable cartridge for hogs in Germany is a 6.5...usually in 6.5 x 57...65 or 68. That's a lot more energy than a 223 but I don't doubt that a 223 in good hands gets the job done. But a 7mm gets it done better no matter what the angle, distance, or size of the hog.

Mike,
Poor Gato slots easily into point 10 in your list of the things you've learned on AR.

Reading his nonsense reminds me of my college days in San Francisco when I read Herb Caen (Chronicle) just to annoy myself.

TonyH

JonP,

Take my word for it. You DO NOT want our Texas hog plague!

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by JonP:
Have only hunted hogs in Europe..but I'm waiting for the "plague" down in Texas to reach us here on the east coast.

The minimum acceptable cartridge for hogs in Germany is a 6.5...usually in 6.5 x 57...65 or 68. That's a lot more energy than a 223 but I don't doubt that a 223 in good hands gets the job done. But a 7mm gets it done better no matter what the angle, distance, or size of the hog.

quote:

Originally posted by JonP:
Have only hunted hogs in Europe..but I'm waiting for the "plague" down in Texas to reach us here on the east coast.

The minimum acceptable cartridge for hogs in Germany is a 6.5...usually in 6.5 x 57...65 or 68. That's a lot more energy than a 223 but I don't doubt that a 223 in good hands gets the job done. But a 7mm gets it done better no matter what the angle, distance, or size of the hog.

Depends on where you are on the east coast -- head south and we have plenty of wild hogs.

quote:

Originally posted by TonyH:
Mike,
Poor Gato slots easily into point 10 in your list of the things you've learned on AR.

Reading his nonsense reminds me of my college days in San Francisco when I read Herb Caen (Chronicle) just to annoy myself.

TonyH:

Here is Mike the Unbeliever's #10:

quote:

10. In general, those who have time to make close to a 1000 posts a year on AR, know more about hunting and shooting than people who make their living in the hunting and shooting industry and have typically spent 150 days in the field or at the range each year for the last two decades.

Well, Tony, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but if you'd read my posts, you'll find that I don't post about things that I haven't done or have personal knowledge of.

I don't claim to be a reloading expert, besides reloading hundreds of thousands of shotgun shells which is quite easy, I'm just barely past beginner in rifle and pistol reloading. I'm just not patient enough to spend many hours at the range getting a load that is a fraction better than the one I found in the first few minutes. And, I keep coming on "deals" where I can buy factory ammo for less than it would cost to reload it, so I wind up shooting a lot of factory. The little target shooting that I still do is mostly big bore rifle silhouette at my range on my ranch and that doesn't require a high degree of load development. As a matter of fact, I usually use Portuguese surplus 7.62 which is amazingly accurate for general purpose military rounds, shooting right in there with Lake City Match in my guns, which by modern silhouette standards are antiques.

I don't post about shooting elephants or similar because I haven't done it and almost certainly won't. Too much money for one shot in my opinion. Luckily for the PHs involved, that's just my opinion, others obviously live for it.

AFA the 150 days afield, I'm "afield" 365 days a year on my ranch here in NE Texas that I've put together by buying smaller contiguous tracts over the last 15 years or so after buying the first tract. I, not so originally, refer to that part of the whole ranch as #1. It is a hunting haven for this area having lots of small game, hogs, deer, and doves (maybe, some years) and ducks, but no quail unfortunately, and I enjoy it and occasionally share it with others for free. On it, and in other places I've shot hundreds of hogs and at least a hundred deer, mostly does for population balance. I've killed wild hogs with everything from a .22 LR (two) on up to a .458 Winchester loaded down but mostly have shot them with my .300 WM. I fired my first rifle when I was 4, my first pistol when I was 5, and haven't stopped shooting much in the 55 years or so since then. Not that this is a big deal, but I fired far more pistol shots (mostly .22 but a fair amount of .45) before I was a teenager than most cops will ever shoot in their careers, including range and practice.

Now as to what else I've done that I do sometimes post about. I've hunted and fished in over 12 countries and at least a dozen states of these United States, not nearly as much as some in here, but I'm hardly a neophyte. The hunting has been mostly birds, but includes three trips for plains game in two countries in Africa plus Zimbabwe for birds. I only post on what I know or have done there or as it relates to some aspect of the hunting. I've been to Argentina and Uruguay many times (both unbelievably wonderful countries with warm, friendly people, if my wife and then our kids hadn't of come along in my life when she and they did, I'd be living in one of them today), mostly dove and pigeon hunting with a few perdiz here and there, but my very first hunt down there was for ducks and geese in the foothills of the Andes, spectacular scenery and one of my many peak experiences as the geese were coming in with light snow and the mountains all around. I've fished the Amazon, some tributaries, the Rio Negro, and quite a bit of salt, here and there, but I'm not really an offshore guy, too much like being cooped up in one spot to suit me.

I have shot more shotgun shells at targets and birds than 99.99% of the world's population. There are certainly some people who have shot more, serious lifetime trap and skeet shooters among them. I basically quit shooting trap in the early 90s when I was AA-27-AA (they didn't have triple A back then) and had been for years with the occasional reduction off the 27. I can and do shoot rifles and pistols quite well, except my eyes have gone bad now and I can't shoot open sights accurately.

I've got more guns, more custom knives and more ammo than almost anyone you know that doesn't own a BIG sporting goods store. I do know something about all of them but others know a lot more than I do. I'm an accumulator, once I get one, I go on to the next object of my affections. That habit coupled with some of my other hobbies has made me a lot of money over the years.

I've got a wonderful wife and 3 great kids and a few good friends. I tell the truth, was brought up that my word is my bond ("Son, we do what we say we'll do, if it takes hair, hide, and all.") and I follow that everyday. If everybody handled their business and personal life like I do, and like many people in the oil patch did 50 years ago, there would be a lot less demand for lawyers than there currently is. A hand shake is more than good enough for me, if I know your word is good, but unfortunately most people aren't that way anymore.

I'd prefer that you believe what I write, but don't really give a damn since the world is full of ankle biters that haven't done what I have done, nor know what I know, and choose to not believe what I write is factual. I don't tolerate ignorance very well, once they've been told or shown that they are wrong. Stupid I can get along with, they can't help it. However, I can assure you of one thing, I'm not "poor" Gato in any sense of the word, it's been a great run to this point. And I'll close by wishing you "Weidmannsheil".

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
In Texas the normal method of hunting deer and hogs is to spread 10 pounds of corn in front of your elevated box blind and shoot a deer or a hog that you've been feeding for several months while resting your rifle on the window sill to make this difficult 25 or 50 yard shot. If the angle isn't perfect for a double lung shot just wait they'll be eating corn and aren't going anywhere for a while. They're not talking about 250-400 yard shots without a rest like hunting in the California mountains or 50 yard running shots in the swamps such as occurs in most hog hunting areas. Most areas of Texas a buck or a pig seldom weighs more than 150 pounds on the hoof. Sometimes much smaller. So a .223 at 50 yards is normally sufficient.

I would have to say that by and large, this is true. However, I have killed plenty of 200-300lb hogs in Texas. Mostly along rivers and in the Costal areas. If I'm after Trophy Boar with tusks I go to the hill country.

The mass majority of hogs/boar that I've killed have been done so using hounds. Not pitbulls or catch dogs, but hounds baying the hog. Under this specific circumstance, the boar can be in a high state of Pissedoffeness(my word) because his adrenaline (sp?) is up and he's fighting. If he has any teeth at all he's dangerous to your dogs and to you if you let him get too close to you.

Under this specific circumstance I have seen wild boar take a lot of punishment from some fairly large caliber rifles and handguns. It helps to be packing something with a large payload because the animal may be moving, be in thick brush or "the perfect shot" just doesn't present itself.
I won't get myself into "the best caliber" debate because it has been beaten to death. However, in THIS specific circumstance I'd rather have a Diesel Truck hitting him than a Prius.

Gato,
I can assure you sir that LWD is not an "ignorant SOB". He is infact quite the intellegent SOB, with a high level of SOBness to my ex-wife's former lawyer...

Ignorant and intelligent are not mutually exclusive as is obvious from that particular ignorant SOB's posts in this thread.

I kept waiting for an apology from the other ignorant person in this thread, since he now knows that shooting 4000 shells in a day in Argentina is not that big of a deal and has been done and exceeded many times, guess that's not going to happen either. Figures.

Just to follow up, here's another example from a cajun's hunt report:

quote:

October 14- Afternoon hunt- 4:10 to 6:50---- 60 boxes of shells shot by me. Drive to field was 3 minutes.could have actually walked to the field. Under trees, 70 degrees, sun and wind to our back. Could have shot 'till 8 PM easily. Enough shooting for 1st day. Dinner: Free range sirloin strip, new potatoes (similar to La Fonda's), Opus One wine, coconut cake and ice cream with ice cream spritzer drink. It was cool that night so we finished the evening with a fine Port wine next to a warm fire in the study.

October 15- Wake-up call 8 AM.

Breakfast: Wonderful Brazilian coffee, orange juice, homemade muffins, waffles, eggs, bacon, ham, cereal, toast, grilled cheese, sweet milk caramel spread, and other selections to numerous to mention.

Morning hunt- 8:45 to noon---- 75 boxes of shells. Becoming apparent that this gigantic roost has phenomenal amounts of doves all around it. 7000 acres of property. Never putting any shooting pressure on doves..the place is too big! They can handle 15-20 hunters at one time easily. Their max for lodging is 17 persons in exclusive accommodations. Today, if Mike and I would shoot all day with no breaks, we could easily have shot 10 cases of shells each (just today). The drive to the field was a little over 3 minutes. Instead of devoting 1.5 to 3 hours per day driving to the fields, we can now use this extra time to enjoy wine with lunch and have plenty of time for a midday nap without sacrificing hunting time.

For the math inclined among us, that's 1500 shells in 2 hours, 40 minutes or one every 6.4 seconds the first afternoon. He speeded up the next morning when he shot 1875 shells in
3 hours, 15 minutes or one every 6.24 seconds. That's a total of 3375 shells in just under 6 hours of shooting. Seems about right for someone who's having fun shooting in a hot spot.

Ryan-

You had to go and stir him up. We'd gone 11 minutes shy of 24 hours without a post, and the last post was actually free of invective. But then what do I know? I'm

the "loud mouthed know it all ballistician"

a "smartass"

"still way too chickenshit"

"the joking "wee, wee" lawyer"

"an ignorant SOB"

and, "that particular ignorant SOB[]"

That's more than my court-appointed criminal clients say about me. Perhaps, this is confirmation that I've reached a new level in life.

LWD

That's because they don't know you.

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:

That's more than my court-appointed criminal clients say about me.

LWD

That admission alone tells us more about you than any prior posts by far. How's that court-appointed-clients-gig workin' out for ya?

Gato
Any chance you could show us your expertise on a small video? I'd very interested to see you video yourself shooting one round every 8 or 9seconds for just a few minutes (say 15 sound good?) That would be an even 100 shots. I'm sure you're not a wimp being the 'fat cat' and all, so probably using 3 1/2 shells with high velocity, not some 20gauge or 4-10?

Over a 15hr day, no piss breaks or eating time, no jams or misfires, no time for the barrel to cool down or clean, impressive to say the least @ 1 shell per <9s. If I did that, i think my guns would get so hot they would seize.

Or maybe you clean and have time to cool your barrel too without losing pace. Kinda like NASCAR, you could probably do a full clean and cool in say 3 or 4 seconds? Have a catheter or colostomy bag too, and a camel pack feeding you liquid energy drinks? Certainly no breaks to sit and rest, that would reduce the time required between shots further.

Oh, and you've done this for how many days in a row, reloading all of them again each night?

Impressive, very impressive.

quote:

Originally posted by Skyvinny:
Gato
Any chance you could show us your expertise on a small video? I'd very interested to see you video yourself shooting one round every 8 or 9seconds for just a few minutes (say 15 sound good?) That would be an even 100 shots. I'm sure you're not a wimp being the 'fat cat' and all, so probably using 3 1/2 shells with high velocity, not some 20gauge or 4-10?

Over a 15hr day, no piss breaks or eating time, no jams or misfires, no time for the barrel to cool down or clean, impressive to say the least @ 1 shell per <9s. If I did that, i think my guns would get so hot they would seize.

Or maybe you clean and have time to cool your barrel too without losing pace. Kinda like NASCAR, you could probably do a full clean and cool in say 3 or 4 seconds? Have a catheter or colostomy bag too, and a camel pack feeding you liquid energy drinks? Certainly no breaks to sit and rest, that would reduce the time required between shots further.

Oh, and you've done this for how many days in a row, reloading all of them again each night?

Impressive, very impressive.

Another idiot heard from. Go to Argentina or talk to any knowledgeable person who has been there several times and you'll realize how truly ignorant your post makes you appear.

But, on further thought, I'll tell you what, I haven't done any serious shotgunning in about 10 years, and all of that shooting we're talking about was back in the 80s, but if you REALLY DON'T BELIEVE that I can shoot 100 shells in 15 minutes out of my 101 and REALLY want to see a video of me shooting 100 shells out of it in less than 15 minutes, then bet me at least a $1000 or any amount over that you can scrap up, $10,000 or more would be even better, and you can fly to Texas, pay for the video, pay for the shells and pay for the clay pigeons (skeet range, easier, or maybe doubles trap, less gun movement) (hell, I'm not going to waste shooting a hundred shells shooting at air) and I'll prove to you that it is easy even for an old fart. If you don't want to come yourself, then you can appoint anyone in here that you wish as your representative, send him the money and he'll be your agent, if I do it, I win, if not, you win. We'll let the rangemaster hold ALL the funds until I win or lose and then he pays the winner. Sound good?

I'm not shooting 3 1/2s or anything like it(besides if you knew sic 'em from sooeey, you'd know a 101 is a 3 inch max gun), that sounds like a serious headache. I'll shoot 12 ga light target loads, AAs since they're so slick and I can use the hulls as a gift. BTW I'm going to give you one more bit of advice before you start breaking your piggy banks, go ask a serious and relatively quick trapshooter how long it would take him to shoot a 100 doubles by himself if he was in a rush, and that includes changing stations.

PS Tell Mike hello for me.

PPS: I'm done with this topic unless someone wants to make one of the two bets offered in here. Otherwise, I'll just chalk it up to the ankle biter internet version of all hat, no cattle. So post all you want in this thread, but unless you're willing to bet, we know what you are.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:

That's more than my court-appointed criminal clients say about me.

LWD

That admission alone tells us more about you than any prior posts by far. How's that court-appointed-clients-gig workin' out for ya?

Norton,
When your ex-wife files false CPS claims on you, puts restraining orders on you etc to keep you from seeing your kids. You'd be lucky to have LWD, I can promise you.
That said, however, I will agree that he is a smart ass....
You can ask my ex wife.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by Skyvinny:
Gato
Any chance you could show us your expertise on a small video? I'd very interested to see you video yourself shooting one round every 8 or 9seconds for just a few minutes (say 15 sound good?) That would be an even 100 shots. I'm sure you're not a wimp being the 'fat cat' and all, so probably using 3 1/2 shells with high velocity, not some 20gauge or 4-10?

Over a 15hr day, no piss breaks or eating time, no jams or misfires, no time for the barrel to cool down or clean, impressive to say the least @ 1 shell per <9s. If I did that, i think my guns would get so hot they would seize.

Or maybe you clean and have time to cool your barrel too without losing pace. Kinda like NASCAR, you could probably do a full clean and cool in say 3 or 4 seconds? Have a catheter or colostomy bag too, and a camel pack feeding you liquid energy drinks? Certainly no breaks to sit and rest, that would reduce the time required between shots further.

Oh, and you've done this for how many days in a row, reloading all of them again each night?

Impressive, very impressive.

Another idiot heard from. Go to Argentina or talk to any knowledgeable person who has been there several times and you'll realize how truly ignorant your post makes you appear.

But, on further thought, I'll tell you what, I haven't done any serious shotgunning in about 10 years, and all of that shooting we're talking about was back in the 80s, but if you REALLY DON'T BELIEVE that I can shoot 100 shells in 15 minutes out of my 101 and REALLY want to see a video of me shooting 100 shells out of it in less than 15 minutes, then bet me at least a $1000 or any amount over that you can scrap up, $10,000 or more would be even better, and you can fly to Texas, pay for the video, pay for the shells and pay for the clay pigeons (skeet range, easier, or maybe doubles trap, less gun movement) (hell, I'm not going to waste shooting a hundred shells) and I'll prove to you that it is easy even for an old fart. If you don't want to come yourself, then you can appoint anyone in here that you wish as your representative, send him the money and he'll be your agent, if I do it, I win, if not, you win. We'll let the rangemaster hold ALL the funds until I win or lose and then he pays the winner. Sound good?

I'm not shooting 3 1/2s or anything like it, that sounds like a serious headache. I'll shoot 12 ga light target loads, AAs since they're so slick and I can use the hulls as a gift. BTW I'm going to give you one more bit of advice before you start breaking your piggy banks, go ask a serious and relatively quick trapshooter how long it would take him to shoot a 100 doubles by himself if he was in a rush, and that includes changing stations.

PS Tell Mike hello for me.

PPS: I'm done with this topic unless someone wants to make one of the two bets offered in here. Otherwise, I'll just chalk it up to the ankle biter internet version of all hat, no cattle. So post all you want in this thread, but unless you're willing to bet, we know what you are.

Gato
If you're short on money, no need to keep asking for $1k bets on AR, Obama gives it away and McDonalds hires anyone that can spell (you clearly have good written English skills and apparently know your math). questionable on your ability to count from zero to 5,000, one shot at a time.

100shells in 15mins is easy, i was just hoping to have you bruise your shoulder shooting man shots, probably take a few tries just to get the timing right for the video, get a haircut, wear your best camo and face paint,e tc, and take up, what appears to be a significant amount, of your free time to keep you off of AR for a while. Guess i failed at that.

==================
.223 TSX for hogs will be fine of course. As someone who's an expert on firearms likes to say to me....'i'd rather have a 416Rigby to the leg than a .223 to the heart'. Good shot placement to two lungs and/or heart, and bullet or caliber on an average hog won't matter much.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Scott:

I think you, or anyone, should hunt with whatever you're comfortable using for your hunt. If I was going to recommend a decent pig gun I'd say something along the lines of a .30-06 loaded with basically anything but FMJ (I've killed many dozen pigs with a 165 gr ballistic tip out of the .300 WM, another hot button for all the armchair ballisticians) would be fine but what I'm not telling people is that a .223, which will kill any pig that walks, should not be used if that is what the hunter wants to use. What I don't like is these dog pack groups of internet ballistics experts telling those of us who know, that what is done all the time can't be done. Ridiculous.

Up until now, my gun of choice for everything from coyotes to hogs and deer locally and plains game in Africa was my custom .300WM which, for me, is one of those rifles that seems to make the shot even when the shooter (me) thought it was not perfect. But I'll be using a .223 for a while now, I am anxiously awaiting all those hogs that laugh at .223 chest shots. I'm thinking of carrying one of my custom Bowies as a last ditch defense against that fearsome critter after all those .223s bounce off.

This really is interesting. All the arguments about it. I personally think you can kill pigs with a 223 and chest shots using appropriate bullets. I'm just going on a trophy hog hunt and have been screwing with my frickin 338 Federal trying to find an accurate load. It's been frustrating so know I want to kill something with the SOB.

I'll go hunting with you anytime. I'd either bring my Savage Precision Carbine or my Sig 556. Loaded up with 60 gr partitions or 62 TSX, I'm confident they would kill a piggy. My friend used his AR with FMJ to kill several pigs about 10 years ago. He'll probably bring his SCAR on this hunt if he doesn't decide to buy a Ruger 556 in 6.8.

Any responsible and ethical hunter would use a more powerful cartrige than a 223. I would not feel sorry for a 223 hunter that gets gorred by an angry wounded hog. Out of respect for the animal it should be given the quickest most painless kill possible. If recoil from a larger rifle bothers the 223 "hunters" they should stick with squirrels and paper targets rather than give the animal a long slow death hours later hidden in the brush to avoid a little more push on their little shoulders.

Wow! This is as bad as the political forum. Having killed more than 20 hogs with various 223 rifles using mostly the Federal XM193 55 gr. FMJ and generally head, neck or high shoulder shots and finding it not as great a stunt as some here seem to think it is. Yes the bullet does penetrate a bit, tumble and break up, sometimes pieces even exit. And most hogs are less than 200 pounds that I've seen and that is as big as I have killed a hog with any of my 223 rifles. I much prefer for general hog hunting my 308, 7x57 and 35 Whelen but for a handy truck rifle my 16 inch barreled AR15 is hard to beat and does kill hogs handily.

I just want to find a good deal on a SA dove hunt one of these years and go shoot until I can't hold the gun up any more! Damn, it sounds like great fun! I am envious of those of you who have gone and had such great fun!

My friend is going to use his SCAR .223 after all. He already ordered a SCAR 308 but it won't be here until January. Anyway, I loaded him 40 rounds of 60 gr Partitions for him to shoot. He's a good shot, so I'm not too worried. I'll let you know how it turns out. I think I've decided to take my new CZ 550 Full Stock in 9.3x62 loaded with 250 Accubonds. Talk about opposite ends of the spectrum.

Well, I have been out from the pig hunting forum for a while and I am disappointed with what I find here...

I don`t think one is better than other. I think Gato lives in a place with much more game than where I live, and that he has shot MUCH more than me.

Also I am an average shooter, and as I hunt only at night I am not always very accurate so for me the bigger the better. It's more, the more I hunt the most convinced I am that bigger is better. When I hunt pigs with my 6,5x55 I feel like shooting them with an airgun, but I know that for many people that caliber is more than enough.

Obviously hogs can be killed with a 223, but we don't have so many hogs down here and we have to work hard for a shooting oportunity.

I think that if someone feels comfortable hunting hogs with a 223 he will kill a lot of them, based on my experience (I hunt pigs only two or three nights per month) I don't have that confidence in small calibers, so I will wound and lost a lot of game, having confidence in our equipment kills as much as any bullet...

I have hunted all my life, I hunt two or three times per month every month of the year, and in my whole life the really BIG pigs (320 pounds or more) I have seen, are less than the fingers of one of my hands, so if for some miracle during one of my "search and destroy" nights, one of the big ones makes a mistake and present me a shot, I prefer to be carrying the ol' and trusted "thirty" and not a coyote gun

L