PS: GW is the funny one, plus he brings the women.

Reading comprehension, one of the first causalities of the internet.

Figures.

I stopped counting pig kills years ago. 90% shot with a 243 with 95 gr NPT's. I do not believe I ever found a bullet but I do not autopsy these vermin any longer. Take your 223 with your suggested projectiles and go have some fun. Who cares about a DRT?? Shoot as many as you can there will be 3 to replace everyone you shot by the next day.
Looking to weld a gun rack on my tractor to hold a AR 15. I just shoot them on site with what ever I have handy (22LR-458 lott)

Gato,
Nobody said you couldn't kill a pig with a .223. Originally a sport hunter asked if it was a good choice and almost all of us said you could do better. He was able to understand that early on in this thread.

For you to make a campaign of it or try to solicit bets is silly. I said I've killed them with smaller guns - several times. Is it the best choice for most people in most situations... not in most of our opinions. Especially for larger boars. If you don't agree, that's great.

You may be a terrific shot and be able to pick your shots to have it work EVERY TIME for the rest of your life. In the discussion of it being the right choice for the average sport hunter, (taking whatever opportunity they get and looking for a good sized boar) your experiement won't prove much to anyone but anonymous guys trolling the web looking for arguments.

If what you're saying is true you have the time (almost 10,000 posts... I'd say...) and you have your own baited hunting Mecca there isn't anyone here who doesn't think you can't kill a bunch of pigs with a .22LR, long bow, bumper of your truck, antifreeze, etc.

That's not what the gentleman asked.

But go ahead with your self-imposed quest if you wish. Please take some kids with you. We need more future voters introduced to the sport.

Kyler,
Who asked if it was a good choice? Not trying to be argumentative here at all. Original post asked about a better choice in bullets.

The Barnes TSX expands to .51 with in 1 1/2" of penetration then punches out. How is that not a good choice?

perry

More than likely, hunters are going to shoot a 150lb pig. The 300 pounders do not grow on trees and you will most likely shoot them after dark or right at dark. I would get a gun (whatever) with a bright scope.

Not to Hijack...Gato, heck no, I haven't given up waterfowl after such dismal season last year, however I might have suggested it out of frustration. I'd be honored to share a campfire once again, be it ducks, geese, doves, hogs or whatever that moves. Perhaps we could show ol' Sasquatch how waterfowlin is really done w/ 3.5 inch magnum "butt plugs"...

Back on Topic: +1 on the Barnes TSX, excellent choice, my only choice.

J
Speaking of hog bullets thanks for the good deal. may put your 180's into play out of a helo later this week.

Perry

The thing is to get lead(or straight copper) in to the pests. Personally like my .338 WM but have piled many a hog w/ruger RR in 223.As long as hogs are dieing its a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
Gato,
Nobody said you couldn't kill a pig with a .223. Originally a sport hunter asked if it was a good choice and almost all of us said you could do better. He was able to understand that early on in this thread.

For you to make a campaign of it or try to solicit bets is silly. I said I've killed them with smaller guns - several times. Is it the best choice for most people in most situations... not in most of our opinions. Especially for larger boars. If you don't agree, that's great.

You may be a terrific shot and be able to pick your shots to have it work EVERY TIME for the rest of your life. In the discussion of it being the right choice for the average sport hunter, (taking whatever opportunity they get and looking for a good sized boar) your experiement won't prove much to anyone but anonymous guys trolling the web looking for arguments.

If what you're saying is true you have the time (almost 10,000 posts... I'd say...) and you have your own baited hunting Mecca there isn't anyone here who doesn't think you can't kill a bunch of pigs with a .22LR, long bow, bumper of your truck, antifreeze, etc.

That's not what the gentleman asked.

But go ahead with your self-imposed quest if you wish. Please take some kids with you. We need more future voters introduced to the sport.

[quote]Gato,
Nobody said you couldn't kill a pig with a .223.

Oh really???? What do you think this says???? What they said was you couldn't kill one with a chest shot and I disputed and still dispute that. I'm saying I and any reasonable shot can do it and am MORE than willing to back my claim up with real hard cash not some internet BS ballistics that doesn't mean a thing in the real world. Instead we get all these frigging ballistic know it alls that haven't done it and are telling those of us who have that it can't be done. Give me a fucking break!!! or bring on your money.

BTW, originally it was asked which .223 bullet was best, not if it was a good choice. Try reading.

quote:

LWD
one of us
Posted 11 September 2010 16:21 Hide Post
I would use the .223 only for CNS shots. And for that bullet choice really doesn't matter. What you've got will do nicely. Might even get a double if you line a couple up. With a .223 placement anywhere else and effectiveness will be close to nil on a decent size pig. Pigs can run hundreds of yards from well placed .30 cal bullets.

This loud mouthed know it all ballistician is in Texas and Tendrams, one of the other loud mouthed know it alls is in Oklahoma. Neither one had a clue what they're talking about, because neither one has ever done it. They're fairly close to me, so instead of spouting off on the internet, why don't they just bring a LOT of money and prove that I can't kill a pig with a .223 chest shot. Again, I'm not trying to sell pig hunts to local city yokels who think it is some kind of big deal killing one and that they are so tough to kill, they're frigging pests that breed like rats and ANY dead pig is a good pig. Most of the pigs I've killed have not been under bait, including the 8 that day (which was posted in here at that time), and the several other times I have shot 4 or 5 (that was with 4 .300 WM shots from my go to custom pre-64 M70), I'm standing no support since I was creeping across pasture until the first one raised their nose, that's when I knew the jig was up so..... first one sow weighing about 175, still at about 100 yards, then second one running (boar 150-175) at about 125-150, then 2 running at 175 or so("flock" shot at pack of piglets, not really one pig, two fell over about 30 pounds each) and then finally one (sow 125 to 150)that stopped at about 225 to figure our where the others were) at one time (I'd also be the first to admit that this was an exceptional situation and I was lucky to make all the shots count under the conditions), so take you smartassed "baiting" comment and put it where the sun never shines.

With apologies to Perry Como and Bing Crosby, (think It's beginning to sound a lot like Christmas ), Gato,

You're beginning to sound a lot like Hot Core
Everywhere you post.
Take a look out in the pasture
Overrun once again
With pigs and piglets aglow

You're beginning to sound a lot like Hot Core
Opinions in every post
But the prettiest sight to see
Is the piggie that will be
dead from your .223.

quote:

Reading comprehension, one of the first causalities of the internet.

Yes, yes indeed! But do note that he did correctly read that I'm in Texas.

Normally, I don't feed the trolls, but since you've picked on one of my comments, I'll play. As Kyler and others have pointed out, this was originally a sport hunter asking a question about effectiveness. Assuming (and I think the emphasis is on the U here), he wanted to actually have a reasonable chance at recovering the pig, I made the statement that I did. We (myself and the others on my lease) mostly treat pigs as moving targets and bullet test media, so unless someone just wants pork chops we don't really care too much where they live or die. But since this seemed a reasonable question from someone less knowledgeable than others about pig hunting some of us chimed in with the comments that we did.

Since my pickup truck doesn't get the best gas mileage, perhaps you could just post some pictures of the ones you've killed with the .223 and save us all the trouble and expense.

LWD

Oh, heck, I'm not done yet. This is way more fun than working.

quote:

This loud mouthed know it all

Dang, how'd you know I was a lawyer?

quote:

because neither one has ever done it.

Correct. I prefer to use an adequate caliber.

quote:

that was with 4 .300 WM shots from my go to custom pre-64 M70

Ooooh. That's so much gun! How do you handle all that recoil? You must be a strong and virile man!

quote:

I'm standing no support

That's called "offhand"

quote:

until the first one raised their nose, that's when I knew the jig was up

That's impressive. I wouldn't have figured that out until they cried wee, wee, wee all the way home.

Now, I'm done.

LWD

Gato,
Thanks for the well thought out points. You've completely changed my mind on the subject. You're obviously all class and readily able to articulate that attribute.

I'll try to check back when you've anonymously posted another 10,000 times so I can learn more from you.

Damn, Gato, what in the hell are you getting all worked up about?

I think some of us are a bit jaded. Having your pastures destroyed by these vermin makes you look at them a little different than for "sport hunting". They are gods creatures and deserve a humane kill like any other animal but sometimes it is hard to see it that way.
I have some pics you would not believe of damage they do. Just have not found out how to post them on this MAC. If any of you guys know how to post pics. Let me know and I will send them to your e-mail.

EZ

quote:

until the first one raised their nose, that's when I knew the jig was up


That's impressive. I wouldn't have figured that out until they cried wee, wee, wee all the way home.

Well smartass, that's because you don't know shit about pigs, obviously. Just to try to teach the ignorant, I'll tell you that when they raise their nose in a particular manner which is obvious to anyone who has hunted pigs much, they're smelling something, usually you, and are trying to get a better whiff. I've even seen them raise up on their hind legs to get the scent, as soon as they identify human smell, which doesn't take long, they give that kind of "whuff" warning grunt they make and that's when they ALL take off running RIGHT THEN. THAT'S why I shot when one of the sows raised her nose and they were still more or less stationary. Ignorance is rampant in your household about pigs and pig killing it seems.

I see you'll still way too chickenshit to actually want to bet REAL money on whether your bullshit opinions about killing pigs with a .223 have any validity. I'm here, my money is here, and I am more than willing to deduct gas money from the winners money, either way. What's your next excuse?

A 55gr FMJ, or a 60gr Partition around 2800 will kill any pig on Earth. I have now used factory 222Remy varmint loads to head shoot pigs dead 1st shot. Let there be no doubt as to the effectiveness of 223 on pigs. While not my first choice I have 3 .223caliber centerfires-.223Rem being the fastest-that I can cleanly kill just about any piggy. Lets not forget how many hogs get killed in traps with a 22short or LR and they die quickly.

Jason I'll respond to you later. But I will say smaller guages are more fun to shoot, easier to practice with and Real 10ga loads are 2&7/8inch.

Andy

NO ONE SAID THAT YOU CANNOT KILL HOGS WITH A .223. Hello, anyone paying attention here? What the majority are arguing is that there are better choices. Head shots? That's a no brainer (pun intended) -- any caliber will get it done. That being said, a .223 is not optimal for all shots and angles presented.

Now tell me I don't know squat about pigs. Oh, and I hunt 'em almost exclusively with handguns, so I have to get closer than a guy with a scoped rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

until the first one raised their nose, that's when I knew the jig was up


That's impressive. I wouldn't have figured that out until they cried wee, wee, wee all the way home.

Well smartass, that's because you don't know shit about pigs, obviously. Just to try to teach the ignorant, I'll tell you that when they raise their nose in a particular manner which is obvious to anyone who has hunted pigs much, they're smelling something, usually you, and are trying to get a better whiff. I've even seen them raise up on their hind legs to get the scent, as soon as they identify human smell, which doesn't take long, they give that kind of "whuff" warning grunt they make and that's when they ALL take off running RIGHT THEN. THAT'S why I shot when one of the sows raised her nose and they were still more or less stationary. Ignorance is rampant in your household about pigs and pig killing it seems.

I see you'll still way too chickenshit to actually want to bet REAL money on whether your bullshit opinions about killing pigs with a .223 have any validity. I'm here, my money is here, and I am more than willing to deduct gas money from the winners money, either way. What's your next excuse?

I'd have no problems shooting a HOG with a 223. Hell, I have a super accurate Savage Precision Carbine and an accurate fun to shoot Sig 556. I'm just paying for a "trophy boar hunt" this time around so I'm bringing bigger payload.

If I ever find a lease to hunt close by or p/u a little land myself, I'd have no problems dusting hogs with a 223.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
NO ONE SAID THAT YOU CANNOT KILL HOGS WITH A .223. Hello, anyone paying attention here? What the majority are arguing is that there are better choices. Head shots? That's a no brainer (pun intended) -- any caliber will get it done. That being said, a .223 is not optimal for all shots and angles presented.

Now tell me I don't know squat about pigs. Oh, and I hunt 'em almost exclusively with handguns, so I have to get closer than a guy with a scoped rifle.

Are you paying attention? Do you understand "close to nil"? What was said was that a .223 chest shot would not kill a pig, which is the point of this argument.

quote:

.223 for CNS shots..........With a .223 placement anywhere else and effectiveness will be close to nil on a decent size pig. Pigs can run hundreds of yards from well placed .30 cal bullets.

LWD

No one is arguing that IF someone so chose there would not be better cartridges to kill a pig with, but so what? There are certainly more effective weapons to kill pigs with than a handgun, but I'm not trying to say handgunners shouldn't hunt with one because some might not use them properly or might not make a perfect shot with them every time. So what if a .223 is not the optimal choice, it is a reasonable choice, and it will kill hogs easily with a chest shot. That's the point.

Who pee'd on your cherios this morning, Gato? You're the one who keeps bringing up chest shots. So yes, I am paying attention.

As an aside, I haven't found my handguns lacking in killing ability on any game I have faced. So, are there better choices than a handgun? For me no.

Scott:

I think you, or anyone, should hunt with whatever you're comfortable using for your hunt. If I was going to recommend a decent pig gun I'd say something along the lines of a .30-06 loaded with basically anything but FMJ (I've killed many dozen pigs with a 165 gr ballistic tip out of the .300 WM, another hot button for all the armchair ballisticians) would be fine but what I'm not telling people is that a .223, which will kill any pig that walks, should not be used if that is what the hunter wants to use. What I don't like is these dog pack groups of internet ballistics experts telling those of us who know, that what is done all the time can't be done. Ridiculous.

Up until now, my gun of choice for everything from coyotes to hogs and deer locally and plains game in Africa was my custom .300WM which, for me, is one of those rifles that seems to make the shot even when the shooter (me) thought it was not perfect. But I'll be using a .223 for a while now, I am anxiously awaiting all those hogs that laugh at .223 chest shots. I'm thinking of carrying one of my custom Bowies as a last ditch defense against that fearsome critter after all those .223s bounce off.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Who pee'd on your cherios this morning, Gato? You're the one who keeps bringing up chest shots. So yes, I am paying attention.

As an aside, I haven't found my handguns lacking in killing ability on any game I have faced. So, are there better choices than a handgun? For me no.

I keep bringing up .223 chest shots because that is the point and cause of this whole argument if you could read.

Here is the original post:



My buddy and I are going hog hunting in November. I will be taking my 338 Federal with 200gr Accubonds. My buddy wants to hunt them with his new FN SCAR in 223.

What bullet would you recommend? I have 60 gr partitions and 62 gr TSX on hand that I can hand load for him. Is there a better option I'm missing?

Regards,

Scott


My recommendation is either. I have experience with the 60gr partitions. At impact velocities as little as 2500 they will exit on lung hits and the pig will die fairly quick. The TSX by design looks like a good bullet, but I have no personal experience with them.

South Texas Sasquatch

I can read, but you are evidently so caught up in your diatribe, that you don't seem to be comprehending what everyone else is saying. Adequate, not optimal and nothing more or less. back at 'ya!

If you are a archer, take your bow along with your rifle. It is fun to stick em'
Just use cheap arrows! Pigs are not worth a $20.00 arrow.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I can read, but you are evidently so caught up in your diatribe, that you don't seem to be comprehending what everyone else is saying. Adequate, not optimal and nothing more or less. back at 'ya!

You really are dumber than I thought. Do you understand the definition of "everyone"? WTF do you think this says? Bold emphasis mine:

quote:

I would use the .223 only for CNS shots. And for that bullet choice really doesn't matter. What you've got will do nicely. Might even get a double if you line a couple up. With a .223 placement anywhere else and effectiveness will be close to nil on a decent size pig. Pigs can run hundreds of yards from well placed .30 cal bullets."

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I can read, but you are evidently so caught up in your diatribe, that you don't seem to be comprehending what everyone else is saying. Adequate, not optimal and nothing more or less. back at 'ya!

You really are dumber than I thought. Do you understand the definition of "everyone"? WTF do you think this says? Bold emphasis mine:

quote:

I would use the .223 only for CNS shots. And for that bullet choice really doesn't matter. What you've got will do nicely. Might even get a double if you line a couple up. With a .223 placement anywhere else and effectiveness will be close to nil on a decent size pig. Pigs can run hundreds of yards from well placed .30 cal bullets."

You really are an unpleasant cuss, Gato. I've never resorted to insulting you and won't be dragged down to your level. Everyone, meaning a majority of the posters in this thread that disagree with you.

Discussing anything with you is like reasoning with a drunk.

At least you read it FINALLY. Got nothing else to say about your use of "everyone" besides the COMPLETELY WRONG statement that now all of a sudden "everyone" means a simple majority?

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
At least you read it FINALLY. Got nothing else to say about your use of "everyone" besides the COMPLETELY WRONG statement that now all of a sudden "everyone" means a simple majority?

Gato, you can read whatever you want into it -- you will anyway. Do you not concede that most posters in this thread disagree with you? Forgive me for using the term "everyone" if it was not as precise as you would kike it be. Have a nice day.

quote:

You really are an unpleasant cuss, Gato. I've never resorted to insulting you and won't be dragged down to your level. Everyone, meaning a majority of the posters in this thread that disagree with you.

Apparently you can't count either. The majority of posters (not posts) in this thread don't disagree with me. So no, not only don't I concede it but, like the .223 chest shot opponents, you're wrong. Break out those fingers and toes.

Gosh, thank you for pointing out my shortcomings! Gato always knows best..... Again, sir, I wish you a nice day. Now, get somthing to eat and some coffee in your system, you're grumpier than usual.

WARNING! SERIOUS POST FOLLOWS!

I have to admit that when someone says .223, I think varmint gun and varmint bullets. So I don't think about the few hunting bullets that are available in this caliber, nor do I think about the 75 and 77 grain OTM offerings from Hornady, Nosler, and Sierra. The 75 and 77 grain options apparently penetrate some and then fragment rather like the Bergers, so those could be a good choice for a SCAR with a 1:7" twist.

Regards,

LWD

I may not know best (nice diversionary try tho) but at least I can count and I am way too smart to spout off some comment regarding any total without counting first. You started in on me, not the other way around, keep that in mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
I may not know best (nice diversionary try tho) but at least I can count and I am way too smart to spout off some comment regarding any total without counting first. You started in on me, not the other way around, keep that in mind.

No diversion was attempted Gato, I can assure you. The comment about you knowing best refers to your intollerance to opposing views. You immediately challenged a couple of posters to come down and "bring lots of money." Again, have a nice day.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
What bullet would you recommend? I have 60 gr partitions and 62 gr TSX on hand that I can hand load for him. Is there a better option I'm missing?

In my experience, the RIFLE tells the shooter what bullet it will be more accurate consistently. Accuracy should be more important the bullet selection & performance, IMO.

quote:

No diversion was attempted Gato, I can assure you. The comment about you knowing best refers to your intollerance to opposing views. You immediately challenged a couple of posters to come down and "bring lots of money." Again, have a nice day.

I oppose FALSE statements (whether they are about a .223, or the incorrect use of a word, or the ability to accurately count), if that makes me intolerant (BTW there's only one "l"), so be it. I am and have always been a fact checker, just because someone, anyone says something (such as your use of "majority in this thread") doesn't make it so. I also find that seeing if someone wants to bet serious sums of real money to back their opinions or performance is a quick way to separate the Bullshit artists from the people who at least believe they're correct.

I see the joking "wee, wee" lawyer has now changed his tune, and has decided that, paraphrasing, "well, maybe I was wrong and the .223 can kill a hog with chest shots" because he didn't think about the whole panoply of .223 bullets before spouting off. Figures.

I apologize for my typo! I have editors that perform that function.

Gato,

I am glad you are a fact checker and that you find counting accurately important.

I have to admit that I didn't believe your post in Shotgunning before and I apologize. I now feel confident that these are facts and they are accurate.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=363106568#363106568

You fired "well over 30,000" rounds out of your Win 101 in a month and you also reloaded those rounds.

Your post:

"Yes, I said and meant 30,000 shells in a month. I hunted many of those days with friends who shot as much or more than I did, but not as often because they had regular jobs, so I could scrounge up some witnesses if pressed. Once I found the place and met the land owner and manager who were plagued with blackbirds on their rice and liked people shooting them, I would shoot a MINIMUM of 500 shells in the morning and come back and shoot a MINIMUM of 500 shells in the evening, sometimes I'd shoot a thousand, it just depended on flight patterns, weather, etc. This went on for several years, but this particular period was when I got my first 101 and I wanted to test it's durability since I'd just had a bad experience with a Citori. Its been a while and I don't recall the exact acreage, but it was several thousand acres of rice with blackbirds on all of it, and usually I and maybe a friend or three were the only shooters on the place until the word leaked out. BUT I don't think I ever failed to shoot 500 per session with morning and evening sessions a day. How do I know, simple, I'd shoot 500 shells or so, and come home and load up 500 or so more on my PW 800B, takes about an hour and a half for one person, sometimes we'd team up and two can load about 700 shells an hour. Then I'd get up early in the AM, drive the 30 miles south of town and shoot my 500 or so. Then I'd come home, load 500, eat lunch, take a nap, and take 500 more shells back into the fray that afternoon. I always kept at least a thousand shells in back of the truck in case they swarmed me. Roll Eyes It usually took about 2 hours, sometimes a bit more, sometimes less to shoot a case (these were the days of 500 to a case) up. That's only roughly 4 shots a minute, and very often you'd shoot many times that rate."

A 1000 rounds a day on average for 30 days straight is an impressive fact


You also fired 4000 rounds in one day out of the same 101 in Argentina.

Your post:

"My first trip was my most extravagant as far as shells shot.....as I've said in other places, I shot 4000 shells the first day using a 101 (the same one I shot the above mentioned blackbird fields with) and 13,000 that week"

Assuming 14 hours of shooting (2 seven hour sessions), averaging 1 round every 13 seconds for 7 hours straight twice in one day is an impressive fact. If it was 10 hours of shooting then 1 round every 9 seconds or if it was 8 hours of shooting 1 round about every 7 seconds. Not having shot doves in Argentina, I don't know how long the shooting sessions are but regardless 4000 rounds in a day is impressive.


You also killed 20 doves with 25 shots in 20 seconds with the 101.

Your post:

"Sometimes a buddy and I in Argentina, after a mornings shoot down there, when the doves were flying slower but still pretty active (they fly all day but slow down around noon, unlike whitewings which turn on and off like a water faucet) would play a couple of games we invented. One was shoot as many doves as you can in 30 seconds with up to a box of. Best I recall my doing was about 20 killed in 20 seconds with the 25 shots, this with the 101. Time started with first shot. You could run a higher percentage but the time would expire"

Since the clock started with the first shot. That means you fired 2 shots, dismounted the gun, opened the action, grabbed two shells, reloaded, remounted the gun, and fired two aimed shots in less than 3.33 seconds and did that cycle six times in a row. You actually had to do it in less than 3.33 seconds because to fire the 25th shot you would have to reload and almost complete a 7th cycle.

That is another very impressive fact.


Best regards,