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In your opinion what is the minimum caliber for hunting elephant, including bullet weight and foot pounds of energy? | ||
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   Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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OK, I'll bite... 9,3x62mm, (.366 caliber) 285gr bullet @ ~2300 ft/ sec, ME ~ 3350 ft-lbs. Please note, this is waht it should be in my opinion, not neccicary legal everywhere. I think above would only be legal in Namibia and Zim at the moment. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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OK I'll be the first fool to comment. While my 375 would work in a pinch I think it might be an unhealthy habbit to regularly hunt them with much less than a 458 of some type. I know if I ever get the chance I will opt for something in the 458 Lott/ 450 Rigby neighborhood or bigger provided I can shoot well with it. Yes it's cocked, and it has bullets too!!! | |||
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Most African countries set the minimum legal required to .375 H&H Mag. (standard factory ammo) for any of the listed DG species which includes elephant. Ideal caliber for elephant is a personal choice - some opted for 6.5mm - but to safeguard personal life expectancy I would suggest something in the .40+caliber.  | |||
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I've never ever seen a box of loaded .404 Jeffrey ammo. I've never seen a gun store that stocks the cases or the bullets. Which in my opinion puts it into second place behind the .416 Rigby. That I've seen. And I've shot. And I like. I'd say anything that starts at about .40 caliber and 400 grains is the minimum for elephant. Whatever floats your boat. For me that's the Rigby. | |||
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What the hell are you guys thinking?  ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Will, You need to educate these guys!! | |||
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Buy Will's book..... Bob DRSS DSC SCI NRA & ISRA | |||
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30-06 with 220 grain solids. Elephant Hunter, Double Rifle Shooter Society, NRA Lifetime Member, Ten Safaris, in RSA, Namibia, Zimbabwe | |||
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Well the minimum is what ever is legal in the country that you are hunting. Those calibers will work esp. if your backed up by a PH. Now if you are asking my personal minimum, it will be bigger than than those calibers. It also depends on whether I am hunting trophy bulls or cows and where I am hunting. For the huge bulls bulls in Botsana, I want a larger caliber or more bullet weight than I would want in say the Zambezi valley or Tanzania where the average size of bulls is much smaller. I also want a larger caliber for cows anywhere. They are damn dangerous. For Botswana bulls I would probably chose a 458 Lott with 550 grain Woodleigh RN solid as they have proven to me to have more pentration than 500 grain FN or RN solids. For the rest, any cliber from 458 or larger with 480 to 500 grain bullets going at least 2,150 fps. 465H&H | |||
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Assuming that the hunter intends to take only the classic brain shot, then the "minimum" has little to do with the diameter of the bullet or size of the case, but rather has to do with what bullet at what velocity will dependably penetrate the skull and other tissue and make it reliably to the brain. I don't know the answer to that question, but at least I know the question. | |||
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I would have loved to have tried that. Too chicken! ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Exactly...for brain shots...reliable straight-line deep penetration is all that is needed. Once it begins its trek through the brain...caliber size makes little difference. Big calibers are needed for 2 reasons: A) when you miss the brain slightly as they may "shock" the CNS more producing a stop which can easily be followed up on and B) an all out charge when snap shooting is the only chance you have and accuracy is going to be spelled L-U-C-K and a hard hit anywhere might slow enough for more or turn. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Bell killed 1011 elephants with 170 odd grain military ammo from his 7x57 (.275). And on occasion used a 6mm something or other. One man and his gun and no hairy chested PH behind him to back him up. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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And how many have you killed with the old surplus 7mm Mauser FMJ ammo? ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Never shot an elephant. But many have and continue to do with the 7.62 FMJ. Statistics prove that this is by far the most popular big game cartridge in Africa today. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Bell didn't kill 1011 elephants with a 275 Rigby. He killed 1011 total. He also killed many with the 303, 256 Manlicher and 318 WR. Plus a few with the 450/400. He may have even used other calibers. 465h&H | |||
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Shot placement Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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The .256 being the 6.5x54? That is not a bad minimum? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I need a reference for that claim! ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Also known as an AK-47  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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My minimum is a 500 gr solid from my 450 Dakota. Because I want to walk out of the bush rather than be carried. Bob DRSS DSC SCI NRA & ISRA | |||
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Biggest caliber you can accurately shoot is the minimum caliber for Elephant. | |||
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+1!  | |||
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I read of a guy taking two ele's with a 22. The second was to prove to a friend that it worked. | |||
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I thought Bell settled this discussion a long time ago. Granted he was an exception though. I have zero experience in killing elephants, but I imagine I would take my 404 Jeffery. I know I would put a heck of lot of emphasis on where to put that bullet. I cringe everytime time I see a muffed shot on one of the shows. | |||
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Why was BELL an exception? He obviously was a calm and collected hunter who did not like recoil but learned through initial failures as to exactly where an elephant's brain and heart were and then specialised in placing heavy small calibre (good sectional density thus straightline penetration) bullets into the vital spot. He also shot hundreds of buffalo, rhino, hippo and other game for meat to feed his safari entourage or trade for native food. Also shot a few members of the cat families as well with his trusty 7mms, 6.5mms and 318WR rifles. Although Bell, Taylor, Hunter and others of their ilk were great men and adventurers, they were in the right place at the right time and applied their skills accordingly. There would be plenty of hunters around the world today who could easily emulate Bell's feats in Africa if freely allowed to hunt with these calibres and without PH's. For all that, I hang on every word when reading of these great hunters adventures and wish we could truly step back in time sometimes. For what it's worth I share the same surname, some of my ancestors did come from Scotland and I was born in the same year that Bell died. Oh how I wish it may have been differant. | |||
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For cow elephants which I only plan on making brain shots the 9,3x74R with a 286gr Woodleigh Solid is my minimum. For hunting Ivory where I would take a body shot if necessary I would want a 450/400 as a minimum. I have killed elephants with a 9,3x74R, a 450/400 3 1/4" and a 450 No2. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I have killed four elephants, three with my .505, one with a .458. I was not particularly impressed with the .458, although it did the job. It would be my minimum caliber, for many of the reasons quoted above. | |||
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The late, great PH Harry Manners used an off the rack M70 in 375. | |||
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Well, right, wrong, or inbetween, I'm taking a 375 H&H for my tuskless ele/cape buff hunt this summer. I'm going to use handloaded Hornady DGS and DGX ammo. I'll let you know what happens.... Mad Dog | |||
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You are right, there are many men given the same circumstances could accomplish the same thing, but the difference is he did. 1000 plus elephants? that makes him an exception. You also have to admit, there are many men given the same circumstances, do not have what it takes to accomplish what Bell did. I just feel given what he accomplished, he has shown what minimum caliber elephants can be taken with. He is an exception, I doubt we will ever see another individual take 1000 plus elephants. I was not putting him on a pedestal, but he did have an extraordinary amount of elephant killing experience, that is the exception. | |||
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.308 AP (Black tip) Ok, for the more sensible of us, I'd say the .375 H&H mag. JW | |||
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Although the 375H&H and lesser cartridges have accounted for a whole bunch of dead elephants, I would feel much more comfortable with a mimimum of .40 cal, shooting a 400 grain bullet with an SD of.300 or better, min velocity of 2100fps. Ive never shot an elephant, but had a standoff in the Selous, and was happy carrying a 416Rem. Phil Massaro President, Massaro Ballistic Laboratories, LLC NRA Life Member B&C Member www.mblammo.com Hunt Reports- Zambia 2011 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1481089261 "Two kinds of people in this world, those of us with loaded guns, and those of us who dig. You dig." | |||
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What we don't know is how many elephants Bell shot that got away wounded. Based on his writtings it was not an uncommon occurance. He didn't have to pay a trophy fee on "wounded and lost" elephants. We would not not now accept the wounding rate that he had. Tony Sanchez Arino has probably taken more trophy bulls than any living man and hunted many of the same areas as Bell. He feels that if Bell tried what he did under current hunting conditions he wouldn't survive. 465H&H | |||
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but...we will never know will we??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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6.5x54 MS steel jackets Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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Tell the guy to buy your book!!!! Hint - whatever you want to use, go bigger. | |||
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