Looking at which country offers the best opportunity at taking a large Leopard? Any suggestions to country and area please. Zimbabawe, Zambia, ?????

Botswana IMHO. They have such limited quota and they are absolute pigs if you get a permit in a good area. In KD 2 concession (Kalahari proper), which is 2 million acreas they get one permit. The best hunt for leopard again IMHO is a tracking hunt with the bushmen and dogs in Bots. You know from the track it is big. When you close it doesn't get anymore exciting. Sitting on a bait ain't my cup of tea. They are expensive though.

Bearhunter,

Several countries will produce an outsized leopard but I think your chances of getting a really big tom are higher in Zimbabwe's lowveld than anywhere else. The Save Valley Conservancy consistently gives up leopards in that 150# plus class and 170# to 200# is definitely possible. Success is about 70%-80% overall. Having said that if you don't know this those hunts are night affairs and the leopard killed with the asistance of a spot light usually. That of course does not equal an easy hunt and in fact my clients have found it to be an intense affair until the leopard is in the salt.

You might shoot a smaller leoaprd on the Luangwa river in Zambia with John Du Plooy or Andrew Baldry (120#-140#) with a few larger but it will be a daylight hunt with nearly 100% success. Once you have a big cat feeding and you might have multiple toms feeding you'll only sit your blind early AM and late PM. You'll sleep in your bed at camp and hunt other game during the day. I prefer this hunt but as I said the Lowveld of Zim can produce a bigger cat.

You'll get lots of feedback on this and where anyone shoots a big cat will be their first choice but I don't think consistently you can do much better than the Save or on the Luangwa.

Mark

Whenever the subject of leopards comes up, an awful lot of people start waffling about body weights but in reality, body weight means absolutely nothing because it can vary so much depending upon when the animal last mated or ate etc.

Frankly, (IMO) all the talk of weight is either from gullible hunters who have been told it means something or sales hyperbole.

The way to judge a leopard is to do it the way ALL the record books do it, which is by skull measurements alone and nothing else.

Be that as it may though, and at the risk of sounding like a smug git, I'll bet the first round of drinks, I can post pics of leopards that were taken in Tanzania and are bigger than any taken in SA, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia or anywhere else in huntable Africa.

The key to successful leopard hunting is to hunt in an area with lots of cats. The key to successful hunting of big leopards is to hunt in an area with lots of big cats. Easy, right? The record books and PH associations are good sources of and indicators of these criteria.

No doubt there are large leopards in every country where leopard are actively hunted. However, whether you shoot a true whopper or just a nice tom leopard is largely a matter of luck. I killed a monster tom in the Save my first time out. A year later, I killed a real nice tom, also in the Save. I am proud of them both eventhough one is significantly larger than the other. In neither case did we set out to hunt a monster cat or a specific tom.

When I hunt leopard in 2011 and 2012, I'll be hoping to get that mature male on the bait and, if we do, I'll be proud of the success and the experience, and if we shoot another monster cat, that will be a great bonus.

I think the real question to ask is when, where, and how do you want to hunt, how much time do you have to hunt, what other species do you want to hunt, and how much do you want to spend.

Shakari, are you planning on posting the photo of Marrs Bowman's leopard taken with TAWICO?

I've heard so much about the lowveld and Kitumbeine leopards that I'm hesitant to say another place is better, but I do think Zambia's Kafue should be considered, too. I expect Andrew Baldry and Aaron Neilson will agree with this. The Zambian record was taken in the Lunga Luswishi in 2004, and photos suggest it was a 200 pounder if such a thing exists. I shot a 7'8" cat there this summer, and we saw tracks from another tom the same size, with other, only slightly smaller cats having been identified earlier in the season. My understanding is that the Luangwa has higher success, but that the Kafue produces bigger cats.

Sandy,

No.

What did your leopard's skull measure?

http://forums.accuratereloadin...391030111#3391030111


My husband took two leopards in Zim, with one being a 172 pound old tom. With that being said if I was given a choice of where to hunt leopard it would be Ethiopia. They take huge cats during daylight with some being black.

We were in Ethiopia during October 2009 and there was leopard tracks and sign everywhere, including a leopard's kill (bushpig) hanging in a tree.

On the negative side, leopards from Ethiopia cannot be imported into the U.S.A.

Good luck on your search and hunt.

Kathi

Admittedly Ethiopia seems to have a higher percentage than most other places but black leopards occur in most parts of Africa.

The KNP just up the road from me produces fairly regular sightings of them, The Pietersburg area seems to have a fair number and (FWIW) I saw one in the SGR in Tanzania about 15 years ago.

Steve,

I never have had a hunter contact me requesting to shoot a leopard with a Rowland Ward head measurement. Speaking of leopard's trophy size in weight is the same as speaking of a moose's trophy quality in relation to the width of its antlers. It is the common language that most people understand that reflects the overall trophy quality of the animal. When I talk to safari opertors about how their year went concerning leopards they always talk about weight first and then maybe length and head size. When Neil Duckworth tells me his client shot a 187# leopard I don't say "but how big was his head. I say "Holy shit that's a monster".

Mark

17 3/16" skull and taken in the lowveld of Zimbabwe.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Steve,

I never have had a hunter contact me requesting to shoot a leopard with a Rowland Ward head measurement. Speaking of leopard's trophy size in weight is the same as speaking of a moose's trophy quality in relation to the width of its antlers. It is the common language that most people understand that reflects the overall trophy quality of the animal. When I talk to safari opertors about how their year went concerning leopards they always talk about weight first and then maybe length and head size. When Neil Duckworth tells me his client shot a 187# leopard I don't say "but how big was his head. I say "Holy shit that's a monster".

Mark

Mark,

That just goes to show you how so many gullible hunters fall for the sales hyperbole.

Ask yourself why do all ALL the record book criteria for cats is for skull measurement alone and nothing else.......

I'll also repeat my previous comment which said: Frankly, (IMO) all the talk of weight is either from gullible hunters who have been told it means something or sales hyperbole.

However, perhaps you can name a record book organisation that does use weight or even length as a criteria for quality?

The reason they don't is because weight will always be dependent on the factors I mentioned AND that both weight and length are both so easily open to abuse by the unscrupulous.

Steve,

Well! Lions are entered in the book by skull size also. Do you really think if a client shoots a lion with great hair that 1 of 100 clients cares where in the book their magnificently maned lion falls? I don't.

Mark

Wayne Grant's book "INTO THE THORNS" describes the hunting in an area west of the Matobo Hills in Zimbabwe.

The cats we shot there were truly massive, and nowhere else in Africa have I seen an area consistantly produce leopard of this calibre. The biggest, if I remember, had a skull measurement over 19", and won the PH an award with the ZPHGA.

Body weight was also way up there.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Steve,

Well! Lions are entered in the book by skull size also. Do you really think if a client shoots a lion with great hair that 1 of 100 clients cares where in the book their magnificently maned lion falls? I don't.

Mark

Mark,

That's not much of a well reasoned reply but thanks for telling me how they measure lions anyway.

However, you might like to check the title of the thread...... it says leopards.

South Africa's Limpopo if you can get a tag. Huge cats. But I think you've got your answer. Southern Zim from the Limpopo to the Tuli. Some huge cats have also come from Sentinel, though that place isn't so easy to hunt (or book a hunt that is). The problem you'll find most places (at least I have found) is an over-abundance of females. I just returned from a hunt and had at least 10 different females on bait and not 1 male.

quote:

I'll also repeat my previous comment which said: Frankly, (IMO) all the talk of weight is either from gullible hunters who have been told it means something or sales hyperbole.

I'm not gullible and I don't need to sell anyone anything on here and I can tell you weight is important in talking about cats. If a cat weighs 200 lbs with a full stomach or 200 lbs with an empty stomach he is still a giant and anyone would be a complete fool not to shoot him. If you are wanting to tell clients that kill 180 lb cats that thier cat is just allright because if he had an empty belly he would only weigh 155 lbs, you need to touch up on your sales skills. Skull size is an even weaker form of judging cats to me. I have seen a namibian leopard with a 17.5 inch skull that wasn't but a scrawny 7 feet. I have seen a leopard that was seven feet six inch cat out of the lowveldt that didn't even break 17 inches. Every single client would have shot the 7.5 footer if those cats were standing next to each other. Immature leopard don't break 180 lbs no matter how much meat you pack into thier guts. Once they get to that weight full guts or no you are dealing with a hell of a trophy that deserves respect, and when a hunter or PH says he wants to show me a pic of a 180 lb or bigger cat, he has my full attention.

Stephen,

Yeah! I just had clients return from a leoaprd hunt on the Save with Mokore. They had 7 diferent females feeding right up until day 11 when 4 males hit 4 different baits and on day 12 they killed their leopard. Frustrating that might be but it surely shows the abundance of cats and food for cats on the Conservancy.

Mark

quote:

I'm not gullible and I don't need to sell anyone anything on here and I can tell you weight is important in talking about cats. If a cat weighs 200 lbs with a full stomach or 200 lbs with an empty stomach he is still a giant and anyone would be a complete fool not to shoot him. If you are wanting to tell clients that kill 180 lb cats that thier cat is just allright because if he had an empty belly he would only weigh 155 lbs, you need to touch up on your sales skills. Skull size is an even weaker form of judging cats to me. I have seen a namibian leopard with a 17.5 inch skull that wasn't but a scrawny 7 feet. I have seen a leopard that was seven feet six inch cat out of the lowveldt that didn't even break 17 inches. Every single client would have shot the 7.5 footer if those cats were standing next to each other. Immature leopard don't break 180 lbs no matter how much meat you pack into thier guts. Once they get to that weight full guts or no you are dealing with a hell of a trophy that deserves respect, and when a hunter or PH says he wants to show me a pic of a 180 lb or bigger cat, he has my full attention.

smarterthnu,

I wish I had said basically the same. Thanks for nailing the subject.

Mark

Mark,
unfortunately, I think this problem is more our govt's fault than any natural thing. If we can't import females, no one shoots them, and we end up with the same problem we have with deer here. This is a continuing and growing problem throughout Africa. It seems like you have to wade through 10-12 females on average to find one male. I know the males territory is larger, etc...but geesh.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
I'm not gullible and I don't need to sell anyone anything on here and I can tell you weight is important in talking about cats. If a cat weighs 200 lbs with a full stomach or 200 lbs with an empty stomach he is still a giant and anyone would be a complete fool not to shoot him. If you are wanting to tell clients that kill 180 lb cats that thier cat is just allright because if he had an empty belly he would only weigh 155 lbs, you need to touch up on your sales skills. Skull size is an even weaker form of judging cats to me. I have seen a namibian leopard with a 17.5 inch skull that wasn't but a scrawny 7 feet. I have seen a leopard that was seven feet six inch cat out of the lowveldt that didn't even break 17 inches. Every single client would have shot the 7.5 footer if those cats were standing next to each other. Immature leopard don't break 180 lbs no matter how much meat you pack into thier guts. Once they get to that weight full guts or no you are dealing with a hell of a trophy that deserves respect, and when a hunter or PH says he wants to show me a pic of a 180 lb or bigger cat, he has my full attention.

With all due respect and honestly without meaning to insult you, I'll try to explain why you're wrong.

A big leopard can easily eat half an impala at a sitting and that weight once eaten and before it's digested, obviously adds itself to the weight of the cat. Therefore the weight of the cat can vary by something like 25% at the very least....... it's the same cat with the same skull measurement but with two very different body weights. One weight sounds helluva impressive to a client whereas the other sounds somewhat more mediocre.

BUT IT'S STILL THE SAME SKULL MEASUREMENT. Which is why ALL the record books judge by skull measurement AND NOTHING ELSE. Incidentally, as a cat ages, the skull widens which is another reason the skull measurement and nothing else is used by the record books.

You can also forget length because any and all cats are extremely flexible. In fact, a freshly killed cat will stretch whether you like it or not and will then contract to a more natural shape as rigor mortis sets in.

Believe me, the only criteria that's accurate and can't me misjudged either deliberately or accidentally is skull measurement.

As an example of how they stretch, check the last pic here: http://www.shakariconnection.c...unting-mr-spots.html. I'd been holding that cat in my arms for no more than a minute or two and you can see how it's already started to stretch.

alternatively, just look at a domestic cat on a hot day and see how far it'll stretch it's body out on a cold floor to cool itself down.

As I said, I don't mean to insult anyone at all but this fixation about body weight is nothing more than sales BS or hyperbole put out by people trying to sell hunts by impressing people with utter bollocks.

It's no more scientific than telling a car buyer he should buy the red one because red is always faster!

Why else do you think ALL the various record books judge by skull measurement alone and nothing else?

Steve, next I'll guess you're gonna tell me my blue car isn't more economical because blue paint weighs less?

Red

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:
Wayne Grant's book "INTO THE THORNS" describes the hunting in an area west of the Matobo Hills in Zimbabwe.

The cats we shot there were truly massive, and nowhere else in Africa have I seen an area consistantly produce leopard of this calibre. The biggest, if I remember, had a skull measurement over 19", and won the PH an award with the ZPHGA.

Body weight was also way up there.

+1 recommendation for Wayne Grant's book. Wayne takes some real toads in the Matopos.

Wayne and I shot this brute in Moz. He said it was on the smallish size compared to what lives in the lowveld.

Two from the Save. 2009 and 2010. BTW: I'm 6' and 240lbs. Hope to do as well in 2011 and 2012.

Steve, we didn't measure the skull on my leopard, but I'll let you know once I get it back. The cat was very long (no stretching required), with big feet, but I don't know that its head was particularly huge. I've only seen one dead leopard in person, though, so I won't dare to make a skull measurement guess. I'd post a photo, but I'm holding off on such things, including an AR report, until after a magazine article on the hunt runs.

For what it's worth, I recall that the Zambian record's skull was north of 18".

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
Steve, next I'll guess you're gonna tell me my blue car isn't more economical because blue paint weighs less?

Red

Mate, with a name like Dago Red, I'm very disappointed to hear you have a blue car!

Sandy,

I'll look forward to seeing your pics but in the meantime, which magazine?

More generally, there's some very nice leopards here but still none as good as the ones from the Tanzanian areas I have in mind.

Any more takers?

Steve, it's supposed to run in the DSC magazine.

Are you ever going to post your photos? Saying that you've got pictures of bigger leopards and then not posting anything is akin to telling someone you have a full house but not showing your cards. Let's see those pictures!

Last time this topic came up on AR, some big cats were posted, including the Bowman cat and the Zambian record. Here's the thread:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...971039521#1971039521

Are you saying you have pictures of clearly bigger leopards? Wow!

http://www.scifirstforhunters....os.cfm?bookID=137557


19 11/16 skull, one big cat!!!! Is this cat from Botswana with Jeff Rann?

Sandy,

I'm not a member of DSC but will hope some kind soul sends me a copy of the article.

I'll wait a while before posting the links to the pics but yes, they're considerably bigger than anything posted so far.

Sandy,

Check the 1st post on the thread you posted....... it's the same company/areas.

They're helluva expensive but they produce leopards that are truly mucking fonsters!

I'll add that another place for monster leopards, albeit a slightly different one would be Iran.

It must be 20+ years ago now that the Govt there tried to get me interested in the cat hunting and the pics they sent me were simply breathtaking....... the problem was I wasn't about to take clients into an area where some bloody Immam could walk into camp and flog my client for drinking a G&T.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
I'm not gullible and I don't need to sell anyone anything on here and I can tell you weight is important in talking about cats. If a cat weighs 200 lbs with a full stomach or 200 lbs with an empty stomach he is still a giant and anyone would be a complete fool not to shoot him. If you are wanting to tell clients that kill 180 lb cats that thier cat is just allright because if he had an empty belly he would only weigh 155 lbs, you need to touch up on your sales skills. Skull size is an even weaker form of judging cats to me. I have seen a namibian leopard with a 17.5 inch skull that wasn't but a scrawny 7 feet. I have seen a leopard that was seven feet six inch cat out of the lowveldt that didn't even break 17 inches. Every single client would have shot the 7.5 footer if those cats were standing next to each other. Immature leopard don't break 180 lbs no matter how much meat you pack into thier guts. Once they get to that weight full guts or no you are dealing with a hell of a trophy that deserves respect, and when a hunter or PH says he wants to show me a pic of a 180 lb or bigger cat, he has my full attention.

With all due respect and honestly without meaning to insult you, I'll try to explain why you're wrong.

A big leopard can easily eat half an impala at a sitting and that weight once eaten and before it's digested, obviously adds itself to the weight of the cat. Therefore the weight of the cat can vary by something like 25% at the very least....... it's the same cat with the same skull measurement but with two very different body weights. One weight sounds helluva impressive to a client whereas the other sounds somewhat more mediocre.

BUT IT'S STILL THE SAME SKULL MEASUREMENT. Which is why ALL the record books judge by skull measurement AND NOTHING ELSE. Incidentally, as a cat ages, the skull widens which is another reason the skull measurement and nothing else is used by the record books.

You can also forget length because any and all cats are extremely flexible. In fact, a freshly killed cat will stretch whether you like it or not and will then contract to a more natural shape as rigor mortis sets in.

Believe me, the only criteria that's accurate and can't me misjudged either deliberately or accidentally is skull measurement.

As an example of how they stretch, check the last pic here: http://www.shakariconnection.c...unting-mr-spots.html. I'd been holding that cat in my arms for no more than a minute or two and you can see how it's already started to stretch.

alternatively, just look at a domestic cat on a hot day and see how far it'll stretch it's body out on a cold floor to cool itself down.

As I said, I don't mean to insult anyone at all but this fixation about body weight is nothing more than sales BS or hyperbole put out by people trying to sell hunts by impressing people with utter bollocks.

It's no more scientific than telling a car buyer he should buy the red one because red is always faster!

Why else do you think ALL the various record books judge by skull measurement alone and nothing else?

Remember, he is "smarter than you".

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
17 3/16" skull and taken in the lowveld of Zimbabwe.

(insert chinese accent here)Confiucious say, "picture worth a thousand words", yup the Zim Lowveldt..jorge

i don't claim to be an expert on most anything else but drinking johnny walker red, but i have spent somewhere around 100 days hunting mr spots. I have to agree with mark young that the best chance for big leopard is in the loveld. Now i didn't say the bigggest leopeard, cause that may some from somewhere else, but the lad cattle country of zim has bred big cats. Skul, weight, length - i don't give a chit. a big cat is a big cat. by biggest came from that loveld country after 4 hunts and 54 days . that cat was 17 15/15 skull, 7' 10" AND OVER 200 #'S (scale only went that far) On that hunt we had 15 cats on bair - 15 cats, - 15 cats - 15 cats. if you can beat that - do so with a big stick. now this is a post about chances - and i really don't believe than there is any place that can beat chances like that. this hunt was with jumbo moore in the arda. Actually i hunted for 2 years for a cat that i still think was larger in an area about 50 KM from where we were, but that one was not to be. OK now the plus is that the cat there is probably going to cost you a hellova lot less $$ than most anywhere else (luck excepted) . If i was to go back tomorrow (gods provide) i'd go back to the save, and hopefully should i live long enuf, I will

quote:

With all due respect and honestly without meaning to insult you, I'll try to explain why you're wrong.

A big leopard can easily eat half an impala at a sitting and that weight once eaten and before it's digested, obviously adds itself to the weight of the cat. Therefore the weight of the cat can vary by something like 25% at the very least....... it's the same cat with the same skull measurement but with two very different body weights. One weight sounds helluva impressive to a client whereas the other sounds somewhat more mediocre.

BUT IT'S STILL THE SAME SKULL MEASUREMENT. Which is why ALL the record books judge by skull measurement AND NOTHING ELSE. Incidentally, as a cat ages, the skull widens which is another reason the skull measurement and nothing else is used by the record books.

You can also forget length because any and all cats are extremely flexible. In fact, a freshly killed cat will stretch whether you like it or not and will then contract to a more natural shape as rigor mortis sets in.

Believe me, the only criteria that's accurate and can't me misjudged either deliberately or accidentally is skull measurement.

As an example of how they stretch, check the last pic here: http://www.shakariconnection.c...unting-mr-spots.html. I'd been holding that cat in my arms for no more than a minute or two and you can see how it's already started to stretch.

alternatively, just look at a domestic cat on a hot day and see how far it'll stretch it's body out on a cold floor to cool itself down.

As I said, I don't mean to insult anyone at all but this fixation about body weight is nothing more than sales BS or hyperbole put out by people trying to sell hunts by impressing people with utter bollocks.

It's no more scientific than telling a car buyer he should buy the red one because red is always faster!

Why else do you think ALL the various record books judge by skull measurement alone and nothing else?


Remember, he is "smarter than you".

I understand cats gorging themselves can eat a lot of meat. Lets say a cat does eat 20 lbs of meat before your client pokes him and now he weighs 180. Are you really going to stick your snooty nose in the air and say the cat really should only be a 160 lb cat? Hell, a 160 lb leopard is still a big son of a bitch. Thats my point. And very few people can't wait to see thier big cat skull. They want to see a big barrell chested leopard mount with forarms like popeye and a neck as big as his waist. And leopard spines don't shrink and stretch the spinal tissue is too weak and would break. They have a lot of flexibility in the spine through curving and straightening. More than likely when you picked up the cat, it had a flexed curve in his spine and after a while of hanging in your grip it just straightened out. The oldest leopard I have ever had my hands on was a Botswana cat that only had a 14.5 inch skull. Big skulls are a genetic trait and after a certian point in life they will stop growing in a leopard. They measure skulls because that is the only reasonable option the record books have. Top ten SCI trophies have to be measured by a master measurer and since most people don't go hunting with a master measurer, so that a corpse could be measured or weighed on sight, we have to use the one piece that can be transfered internationaly, to a master measurer, the skull. I hope you are not insulted now because you know how you are wrong.

Dogcat,

I am not smarterthanshakari, or smarterthanyou. I am Smarterthanu, so pull your panties out of your crack and debate like you are older than 14.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
i don't claim to be an expert on most anything else but drinking johnny walker red

While we're on the topic of not claiming to be an expert: Hopefully you're not claiming to be an expert at knowing what is good Scotch!

Brett

-This guy came from the Selous R2 in 2009.


big body


Big head

Several great areas but luck plays a big role in taking big toms. Not only area, but time of year and a good PH who knows how to hunt old toms. The best places have been mentioned.
David

quote:

You can also forget length because any and all cats are extremely flexible. In fact, a freshly killed cat will stretch whether you like it or not and will then contract to a more natural shape as rigor mortis sets in.

Believe me, the only criteria that's accurate and can't me misjudged either deliberately or accidentally is skull measurement.

Steve, maybe you should spend more time listening to the consumer than telling the consumer what he wants. I shot a nice leopard in '08 and never measured the skull, But i did weigh him. What does that tell you?

Smarter,

I'm not being snooty at all..... in fact, there's not a snooty bone in my body but I do believe in science and I do hate sales BS.

If you don't believe cats stretch then take a look at the pic in the link I mentioned or for an even better example,take a look at the pic Jorge posted........ If you can't see that leopard has stretched out of his normal shape, you might like to get your eyes tested.

505,

Mate, you don't drive a red car by any chance do you?

Regarding your comment of "I shot a nice leopard in '08 and never measured the skull, But i did weigh him. What does that tell you?"

What that tells me is that you fell for the sales hyperbole that many companies like to trade on. If you wanted a true gauge of the cat (and I appreciate you might not have done. After all and IMO, any mature male leopard hunted ethically is an excellent trophy), you'd have measured the skull.

More seriously, I'd rather tell the consumer the truth than mislead him with sales bollocks that has zero meaning..... but thanks for the suggestion anyway.

As I'd said before. If body weight or indeed length was a reliable way to judge a cat trophy then the record book organisations would be using it as at least part of their criteria....... BUT THEY DON'T.

ALL of them use skull measurement alone and in fact, all use the identical measurement method of length plus width across the zygomatic arches.

Hell even RW & SCI use exactly the same method and there ain't much they agree on...... and I'm still waiting for someone to name a single organisation that does judge cats by weight or length...... or in the case of lions (to keep Mark happy) mane length!

Going back to the original question. The biggest leopards I know of are the ones in the Ramoni areas of Tanzania. Take a visit to www.tanzaniabiggame.com and spend time sorting through their image galleries. Admittedly they're not cheap but some of their leopards are simply huge and quality is never cheap.

Another thing that people might like to do is look at the record books and see how often Tanzania ranks in the top 50 or so of each book.

I'll close by saying, I tend to think the record book thing needs to be kept in perspective and it's far from being the be all and end all of hunting. As I see it, one should judge the trophy primarily by the excitement and quality of the hunt...... but that doesn't alter the fact that I don't think that body weight or length are a meaningful way of judging a trophy.

But hey, it's your trophy and if it makes you feel good to tell people you shot an animal that weighed whatever number of pounds then go for it.

Just don't expect me to be impressed by that information.

Going slightly off topic for a moment. The more I learn about those areas I mentioned, the more it seems to me as though it's almost like there are two separate sub species of leopard in those areas.

Some of the leopards look to be much the same as anywhere else but for some reason others are damn near the size of a lioness and I'd love to be able to see a (simply written) report on the DNA testing of some of the cats there.

P'raps the Aggie team might be able to comment on that?