Two of us are looking to do a Tanzania plains game hunt for the masailand species. Would add buffalo if possible but not a necessity. Any advice on outfitters would be appreciated
Thanks
Craig

The cost of a 1x1 plains game hunting license in TZ (known as a 7/10 day GHP) has a fixed price and includes 1 Buffalo.

The only reduction on the final cost of the hunt would be the trophy fee of the Buffalo as TFs are only accountable once the animal is down or wounded/lost, i.e. "pay as you go".

Don't let any agent or outfitter kid you that TFs are included in the price and not refundable; some have the dirty habit of asking for TFs up front with a promise to refund the amount that has not been utilized.

quote:

some have the dirty habit of asking for TFs up front with a promise to refund the amount that has not been utilized.

Those are the crooks who should be avoided at any cost!

Saaed,

You say this from a different perspective! Any outfitter would be happy to let you pay the t/fees after you go home because of your reputation and who you are.

While there are many crooked outfitters, there are also (thankfully few) clients that cannot be trusted or relied upon to pay their t/fees after their hunts. There is also an issue carrying more than $10K when leaving the country, unless you declare it. And not many people want to go through this hassle. So this is why outfitters ask to be paid a portion upfront or leave the money in escrow with their booking agents.

Craig,
Contact Arjun Reddy above regarding a reasonable safari for Masailand species. I did that hunt last July with his outfit, Kabaubi Safaris. 14 day hunt with a 21 day license. Took almost all of the Masailand species I wanted at Zimbabwe prices.
Russell

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/9801086552

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
Saaed,

You say this from a different perspective! Any outfitter would be happy to let you pay the t/fees after you go home because of your reputation and who you are.

While there are many crooked outfitters, there are also (thankfully few) clients that cannot be trusted or relied upon to pay their t/fees after their hunts. There is also an issue carrying more than $10K when leaving the country, unless you declare it. And not many people want to go through this hassle. So this is why outfitters ask to be paid a portion upfront or leave the money in escrow with their booking agents.

Agree 100%. My hunters pay a trophy fee deposit upfront. This allows the hunters to travel with very little cash and they universally love that. It also gives the safari operator some security against the rare case that a hunter would fail to pay his trophy fees. it's a win win for everyone.

Mark

Congrats on deciding to do the hunt.

I've had good luck with Adam Clements and also one of his previous partners, Bushman Hunting Safaris. I believe both Brian Van Blerk and Mike Fell work with Bushman now.

If you are trying to get all the Masai plains game species, you need to be specific as to what you are looking for, as not every concession has everything. Also, you will need to get a 21 day license just to get access to most of them. As I am sure you know, Tanzania is not cheap. Also be aware that what the operators charge for trophy fees is usually not the same as the government fees for the same animal in all cases.

A shorter hunt on a 21 day license is very doable. The 21 day license allows you up to 3 buffalo, but quota availability is different than license, and they do not necessarily put all the animals on your license, so make sure in writing that they do so (I've missed out on some rarer animals like porcupine and forest duiker species due to this.)

Operators do trade hunts in their areas with others, so you can hunt multiple areas- but in Tanzania, it requires a change fee that can be astronomical- or not. So if your main area doesn't have something you really want, they can do it- but it will cost you something.

I would look into the Lake Natron area if you are mostly looking for Plains game. Maswa has some of the species, but not all of them.

As to the TF's up front, that is a different, and old issue. It is becoming more and more common for them to ask for something in escrow or on account due to folks playing games. I have had no issues with making a reasonable deposit, and then paying the remainder when I get back, and if you have a good area and you want to shoot a bunch of animals, you will overshoot the deposits, IME. I can see why it happens, and have heard horror stories from outfitters regarding reasons for it; but it also strikes me as a bit one sided- and most of us in our work lives have to get paid after delivery of service, and we have to pay the daily rates, etc. up front in full, generally. When something goes south, due to these practices, you generally have less than zero leverage; they have most of your money, they have your trophies, and the contracts are written by the companies to minimize their exposure.

Thanks everyone for all the good advice, Looks like I might be busy at DSC!

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
So this is why outfitters ask to be paid a portion upfront or leave the money in escrow with their booking agents.

So you create legal escrow accounts for TFs? Is the money is held by a third party, a trust account, or is it co-mingled in your business account?

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Agree 100%. My hunters pay a trophy fee deposit upfront. This allows the hunters to travel with very little cash and they universally love that.
Mark

I have to agree whole heartedly with Mark here, I do like not having to carry a large amount of cash to settle an unknown debt. Due to a mistake on my part we were 6K short on our hunt costs. Mark and Mokore had no reservations and they were paid in full after we got home.

Michel Mantheakis has three camps in Masailand and as mentioned above, not all species are available in any one place. Hunted with Michel in 2017 and had a great trip, but we hunted all three camps.

Sir, If I was a crook does it matter i would find a way to take your money. In this business crooks don't last a long time. and frankly you have a much better chance of recovering your money from an agent stateside than an outfitter in a foreign country!

Anyway lets not all go off topic.....

Arjun Reddy

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
So this is why outfitters ask to be paid a portion upfront or leave the money in escrow with their booking agents.

So you create legal escrow accounts for TFs? Is the money is held by a third party, a trust account, or is it co-mingled in your business account?

I have placed to me a lot of money with Arjun to hunt. No issues. No surprises.

Others place Trophy Fees in trust. It is reported on here to be common. I shot one animal that was not expected. Sent payment when I got home. Arjun let me pay with my unused, paperEuros. This saved me a lot on getting them exchanged into US dollars.

My wife and I are going through Arjun for England next year.

Sorry, I have dealt with a junk, but big name group, Arjun is not one of them.

Look at his unsolicited honesty about hunt West Africa in this forum. Sharp contrast to the guys selling hunts in Mexico.

I will add, I tried to pay for that extra Fallow in country. The Outfitter and Arjun said just take care of it when you get home.

I hunted with Pierre Van Tonder last year in Massai Land.

Excellent pricing. Great camp no hidden costs or add ins and all the neat species.

The hunt exceeded expectations in every way.


.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
I hunted with Pierre Van Tonder last year in Massai Land.

Excellent pricing. Great camp no hidden costs or add ins and all the neat species.

The hunt exceeded expectations in every way.


.

We have hunted twice with Pierre in the Selous.

We had a great time with him, highly recommended.

Really looking forward to talking to some Tanzania outfitters at DSC,
Thanks everybody for the helpful posts and
Thank you Saeed for hosting this great forum!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dak416:
Really looking forward to talking to some Tanzania outfitters at DSC,
Thanks everybody for the helpful posts and
Thank you Saeed for hosting this great forum!!

Craig,
Please come and have a chat with me at booth #266 at DSC

I will be hunting in Masailand end of October and beginning of November. Me and my wife Erika will be hosting the hunts personally.

We still have 2 of each Masailand species available on quota.

Looking forward to seeing you!

Cheers,

CvR

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
Sir, If I was a crook does it matter i would find a way to take your money. In this business crooks don't last a long time. and frankly you have a much better chance of recovering your money from an agent stateside than an outfitter in a foreign country!

Anyway lets not all go off topic.....

Arjun Reddy

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
So this is why outfitters ask to be paid a portion upfront or leave the money in escrow with their booking agents.

So you create legal escrow accounts for TFs? Is the money is held by a third party, a trust account, or is it co-mingled in your business account?

The issue has to do with BK; if co-mingled, deposits are essentially lost. If you create a trust account, they cannot be used by the bankruptcy court.

I just get a little tired of booking agents claiming to hold money in trust, when they are not. Sure, the odds of a BK are pretty low, but it has happened, in particular to a well known Texas based booking agent some years ago. In that case, many hunters lost their deposits.

I typically wire my TFs to the operator as soon as I get home. On my last African hunt I wanted to do so in camp, but the owner told me to just wait until I got home.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
Sir, If I was a crook does it matter i would find a way to take your money. In this business crooks don't last a long time. and frankly you have a much better chance of recovering your money from an agent stateside than an outfitter in a foreign country!

Anyway lets not all go off topic.....

Arjun Reddy

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
So this is why outfitters ask to be paid a portion upfront or leave the money in escrow with their booking agents.

So you create legal escrow accounts for TFs? Is the money is held by a third party, a trust account, or is it co-mingled in your business account?

The issue has to do with BK; if co-mingled, deposits are essentially lost. If you create a trust account, they cannot be used by the bankruptcy court.

I just get a little tired of booking agents claiming to hold money in trust, when they are not. Sure, the odds of a BK are pretty low, but it has happened, in particular to a well known Texas based booking agent some years ago. In that case, many hunters lost their deposits.

I typically wire my TFs to the operator as soon as I get home. On my last African hunt I wanted to do so in camp, but the owner told me to just wait until I got home.

I have been on now I think 9 safaris. All with different outfitters except two of the hunts. More often then not the outfitter have preferred a wire transfer when I got home for the balance. 3 times now they did not even have a final tab on the hunt figured out by the time I left. One took almost a month to send me the final bill. Did not matter to me as they are a big highly regarded outfitter many on the boards here hunt with.

Last hunt I went on they were good with a personal check at the end of the hunt which was very easy.