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My take on the day. I ended up meeting with both Senate offices from Texas and five Representative offices from Texas. 1. The audience is generally receptive. Now admittedly I was meeting with Republican members from Texas (although we did grab one Democrat Rep from Houston, not the Congresswomen thankful), they were receptive to the message. SCI had prepared a "Dear Colleague" letter for the Congressmen to sign on to calling on USFWS to repeal the ban and every office either indicated that they would sign or intended to sign the letter. 2. The Congressional offices generally appreciate the important role sport hunting plays in both combatting poaching and preserving elephant. There was really no convincing that was required on these issues. 3. The members seemed to be very concerned about the process issues, i.e., the issuance of the ban with no notice, no hearing, no evidence or opportunity to comment, in the middle of the hunting season and no solicitation of input from Zimbabwe and Tanzania. 4. SCI seemed to be reasonably well organized and we had a good set of materials to leave with each office and something specific to ask from each office, i.e., sign the dear colleague letter calling for repeal. 5. The USFWS rep that spoke was not well prepared. He acknowledged that they had no studies upon which the ban was based, but rather it was based on the lack of studies. He had no good answer for why the agency had not requested the studies if they felt they were lacking. He intimated that the information supplied by Zimbabwe on Wednesday was important and could have a bearing on their views on the suspension. I think have delegations from Zimbabwe and Tanzania here in Washington to participate in these meetings was very important and a good call by SCI. 6. The members appreciate and believe that this is part of a broader attack on sport hunting. They do not believe that the issue is confined to elephants and lions. They understand that the groups behind these efforts want to not only institute rigorous gun control requirements but to eliminate sport hunting altogether. 7. The meetings were great for generating a list of contacts to follow up with. I left the meetings with ten business cards from a variety of staffers that will enable a good follow up dialogue. I was concerned that the day could have ended up being a waste of time. I came away feeling that the time was well spent, SCI was reasonably well organized and the issue is far from over and done with. It was great to see folks like Larry Shores, Jeff Sevor, Mike Burke, John Barth, Rick Capozza, Ken Buch and others show up and help make the case. It is yet to be seen what impact this will have, if any, but this battle is joined. Mike | |||
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it was good to have you there Mike Rory | |||
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Mike - you and the others get an A+. "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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I would like to see a full list of known AR members who attended. I presume Nelson Freeman was there and Louis Muller is a member here as well. Come-what-may all who attended should be appluaded for their effort on our behalf. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Thank you all, still bit pessimistic but you raised my spirits literally. I think I'll have good stiff drink on you all boys You came thru with flying colors " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Is is an opportunity to save Hwange National Park elephants and the land encroachment? Could some sort of a deal be made behind the scene that forces Uncle Bob & his people to protect the President's heard? "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I would also like to thank those who took time out of their schedules to go and work this event and try and put a human face on hunting for our representatives. If I ever meet any of you all, the first drink is on me. Thanks | |||
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absolutely! you guys are the working face of the rest of us and did a damn fine job. second round of drinks is on me!  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Brilliant! Well done chaps. Zig Mackintosh. www.ospreyfilming.com www.hunterproud.com https://www.facebook.com/HuntGeo studio@ospreyfilming.com | |||
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Having done this sort of thing at the State level, I am very familiar with how these roll. IMHO there is no substitute for face to face time with people who accept your donation checks. Having said that, I will give SCI a B+ for this lobby day. They could have been a bit more organized. We also met with mostly "friendlies". Unlike Texas and other hunter friendly states, Florida has some real head cases in power. See Debbie Wasserman-Schulz. These folks (the enemy) need to be engaged as well. I just showed up and rolled with the appointments they set for us. Next year, I will set some of my own. Going forward, this needs to be a consistent effort of lobbying on behalf of hunters. The threats will always be there and by having first name status with rule makers we will be better able to deal with these threats. That guy who asked about his seized Ivory also asked specifically about a subculture of anti-hunting that exists in USFWS and of course this was denied. Whoever this tall, handsome stranger who was interrogating Steve Gueirian Depeuty Director of USFWS was brilliant. I would personally like to meet him. To all those railbirds who crapped on this effort...shame on you. I will be back next year. Jeff | |||
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Good show Larry and all others in attendance. | |||
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Well, you are partially correct. He is tall.  | |||
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Was the media present during this? If they were, and they report it unaltered, it might make the USFW think twice before making silly decisions like these. | |||
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I am not sure. It was filmed but that may have been SCI. I think USFWS got the picture loud and clear. I am going to try to get hy hands on the info that Zim presented to USFWS . | |||
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_______________________________________________ 1- TZ sent 2 people. One was Michael Angelides. I am not sure about the other. 2- TZ did not provide any useful information or any information at all that I was told about. _______________________________________________ The two Tanzania people who traveled to DC were Professional Hunters Mike Angelides (Sec Gen of TPHA) & Piet Fourie (Board of Director, TPHA) Tanzania Professional Hunters Assoc. A big THANK YOU to Mike & Piet, but a real pity no one from TZ Wildlife bothered to attend!! | |||
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I am told there was something on CNN last night. It was from DC and was about hunting . Not sure if this had anything to do with this matter or not. | |||
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There was no media present that I was aware of and personally I think it would have been a mistake to have the media there. These are not issues that the media is likely to report objectively. Besides, the real meat of the day were the face to face meetings with members of Congress and their staffs. To be clear the morning activities including the Deputy Director's speech and Q/A lasted about an hour, then everyone (sans Larry due to the schedule bust  ) went to Capitol Hill for the balance of the day for the face to face meetings. It would have been inappropriate and intrusive to have media coverage of those meetings. As it was, the meetings were able to be done in a very candid and open way.SCI also mentioned that over 2000 people ended up sending letters to their Congressmen via the SCI web link. Kudos to those that did, but it is a pity more did not. Mike | |||
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One other note, there seemed to be a good appetite among the Congressmen and staff to, assuming the mid-term elections give the Republicans control of the Senate, use the power of the purse to hit USFWS where it counts, in their pocket book. Mike | |||
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This was something we encountered as well Mike. It was something I had not considered. Also an amendment is being proffered that I was shown on the sly. We will see where this goes as well. It was very good to see Mr. Jines, Mr. Shores and meet Mike Dettore finally. All in all, I left DC not feeling that I had wasted my time. SCI should be commended for this effort and it's ongoing efforts. Let me give you guys a personal perspective, I disavowed the NRA over financing Harry Reid's reelection. In retrospect they are the only game in town for gun owners. I rejoined at SCI as a Life member. Not too smart on my part to quit. Maybe some of you who are so anti-SCI could consider the same thing with SCI. It may be laced with problems, but hopefully those are being addressed. In the mean time, our rights as hunters will continually be under attack. How the US goes, so goes the rest of the world. Contact the Inuit tribes and find out how many European, Asian Middle Eastern and Austrailian clients are coming to hunt Polar Bear. Safari companies can't survive without US hunters. African wildlife cannot survive without US hunters. Jeff | |||
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My suggestions for how SCI can make these sessions even more productive in the future: 1. Get the meeting schedule out to the participants earlier along with the contact information for each of the participants. This would enable the participants to coordinate a little between themselves on the front end and ensure the right folks are going to the right meetings and even allow for other meetings to be scheduled. For example, I was not listed to meet with my Congressman, I ended up going anyway, but everyone should be touching their Rep. 2. Increase the number of meetings participants are assigned to cover. I think most participants were assigned three meetings for yesterday's event. It is fairly easy to do five of six meetings, I did seven and did not feel pressed for time. I think the number of meetings should be increased for each participant and that would allow us to expand coverage (see the next note). 3. Include more moderate Dems in the mix. Anything that enjoys bipartisan support is likely to be more effective. We need to not just meet with the friendlies but some of the not so friendlies. There are a number of moderate Dems that should be with SCI on sportsmen issues. For example, Gene Green was not on the list for Texas. Congressman Green is a relatively moderate Dem and while we ended up doing a unannounced visit, he probably should have been on the schedule. I think those three changes would help increase the effectiveness of the effort. They are not criticisms, rather constructive feedback for improving an already good event. Mike | |||
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I have been following with great interest the "progress" of this issue. I am 8 days from departure for Sengwe with Gary Duckworth for Bull Elephant. I was tempted to postpone the trip. But reconsidered in spite of the ban. I intend to have a great time either way. I am thankful for the efforts of ALL involved in a attempt to turn this around for the sake of the Elephant, Outfitters and Hunters. I am determined to stay hopeful. Thanks again | |||
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Bravo for Representative Don Young. He was also articulate and to the point in response to my initial letter. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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My thanks to Larry, Mike and Mike, John, Ken and others who attended for those of us who could not. The process is not always 100% efficient, effective or in any way guaranteed, but making our "collective" voices heard was 100% important! Thanks for the time and money you gentlemen spent on our behalf. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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While this cannot be counted on as a certainty, some well known, well respected outfitters in Zim told me today that they expect the Zim portion to be changed in the next 2 weeks. I hope they are correct. | |||
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Wondering out loud. SCI has filed seeking a preliminary injunction to enjoin enforcement of the ban. A preliminary injunction filing results in an accelerated hearing, the clock is ticking on USFWS to respond. I wonder whether some deal might be crafted around the preliminary injunction filing, i.e., USFWS agrees to drop the ban as applied to Zimbabwe and SCI agrees to drop the preliminary injunction request and have the lawsuit proceed on a normal schedule. The reality is that the situations in the two countries are very different. And the USFWS Deputy Director clearly intimated that the information Zimbabwe provided on Wednesday was material relative to the ban. Not suggesting that such a deal would be a good thing or a bad thing for SCI to do, but it would not surprise me if USFWS floated something like that to take some of the heat off and focus the issue on the country with the weaker of the two arguments. Purely speculation on my part. Mike | |||
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Could someone in the know please respond to my earlier comment about the Hwange elephants and the land grab. I wonder if some sort of pressure could be exerted on Zim govt. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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You have asked a question no one can answer . | |||
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Mike I would hazard a guess you are correct. SCI lately from what I have seen has "mitigated" damage and political fallout by compromising with the Feds and other groups Not that that is a bad thing in the elephant importation ban, Tanzania apparently has some more dire issues that Zimbabwe should not have to suffer for. But overall, conceding anything robs us of the little things one at a time. Hard for me to judge this one as to whether SCI should not concede anything and keep up with the court fight or mitigate current damage - tough choice And I am going Elephant hunting in 5 days | |||
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Thanks to all who went on "all hunters" behalf to DC in support of SCI and their attempt to overturn the USFWS debacle. Hoping for the best outcome. Larry Sellers SCI(International)Life Member Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter R8 Blaser DRSS | |||
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A lawless government is not going to listen to any reasonable suggestions. They have been at this for years, and no one has been able to change their direction! | |||
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Jeff, your re-thinking of membership in SCI got me to thinking also. like many here i dropped my membership several years ago over the whole Ethics Committee fiasco( as well as a few other issues). it was a painful decision because for many years i had really enjoyed attending the convention and supporting the Club. i have since attended the DSC Convention but maybe it's time to be a member of both.SCI has truly stepped up to the plate on this elephant issue and are to be applauded. for sure, there are still things there i disagree with but the overall tone of the organization seems to be moving in the right direction- finally!! Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Just want to say thanks to the guys that attended and lobbied on behalf of ALL hunters, even non US based SCI members,as no doubt this ban could be the catalyst of much worse things re hunting in AFrica. We Aussies lost our ability to import leopard and elephant about 20 odd Years ago, and have no real prospect of getting it back. Once it's gone it could be gone for good! So keep the pressure on, For all our sakes!!!!!! Cheers Nick | |||
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Mile, I think that is exactly what is going to happen and is in fact the right answer. "There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark | |||
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I am curious as to how the major hunting organizations like DSC and SCI go about electing a president,the powers of the president and if all members can participate in the election? I believe it is through these organization that we can best make our voices heard. | |||
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I have a simple question? This in no way is any kind of slam towards DSC as I support both groups. Just wondering if anyone from DSC was at this meeting in DC? If not it would be good to hear from them as to what they are proposing and doing in this matter. How about it K. Evans? Would be nice to support DSC as well on this issue. Seems SCI, DSC and possibly the NRA are the only groups we really have now that can help out. Larry Sellers SCI(International)Life Member Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter R8 Blaser DRSS | |||
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I have no idea what, if anything DSC has done or is doing. I heard a rumor of some behind the scenes maneuvering by DSC. While I think what SCI did was great, IMHO a couple of meeting involving the right people would have been far more beneficial. I can only hope that the rumors are true. | |||
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To those gentlemen who attended on behalf of all of us... Thank you very much! | |||
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Many thanks, gentlemen, for your time and efforts in our behalf, and in behalf of the African elephant. Let's hope we can change things. Banning legally hunted elephant trophy imports to the USA from Tanzania and Zimbabwe is not the answer. Chinese and other Asian money fuels poaching, and the rampant governmental corruption that permits the poaching to continue. The only answers are massive African governmental reform - and not just in Tanz and Zim - and Draconian criminal penalties, widely and harshly enforced, for elephant, rhino and other wild animal poaching. I wish it weren't so, but I frankly doubt that we will ever see that happen. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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