The trip was an interesting experience. I was able to meet with Senator Vitter and Congressman Boustany (he is the rep for my district) and staff members for two other congressman. We had very good and frank discussion and felt we were well received by all. The only two members from Louisiana were Chrissie Jackson and me.

I was really glad to see the Zimbabwe contingent.

Did we make a difference? I would like to think we helped a little. I would do it again tomorrow if needed.

Mike Burke

Thanks to Larry et al.I've written to the Montana delegation,but there is nothing like a face to face. Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
The trip was an interesting experience. I was able to meet with Senator Vitter and Congressman Boustany (he is the rep for my district) and staff members for two other congressman. We had very good and frank discussion and felt we were well received by all. The only two members from Louisiana were Chrissie Jackson and me.

I was really glad to see the Zimbabwe contingent.

Did we make a difference? I would like to think we helped a little. I would do it again tomorrow if needed.

Mike Burke

Mike,

I have no doubt your visit made a difference.

Let us hope for positive results.

Some of the SCI folks talked with me about my choice to come since I am not a chapter member. 20 percent of attendees were not. I availed myself the opportunity to explain what the view of SCI has been to many. That being a self aggrandizing, self congratulatory high fliers with now real concern for the average hunter. I specifically referenced the Larry Rudolf debacle.

They realize they have a PR problem. In fact I spent an hour with the SCI national marketing director giving him my view of a blanket hunting organization representing the concerns of all hunters. Not just the elite. He was very interested and concerned.

Does this type of action represent a sea change in the organization? I have no idea. I would like to think so. In the mean time we will have to wait and see.

Right now they are the only game in town.

Jeff

Bwana, for the average hunter as you said those people do and will always view SCI as an elite group and always will. The name in and of its self does that. The "average" hunter that only chases turkeys, or duck or whitetails etc sees SCI as what the name says International and that does not include them. No I don't have a solution. Just look at the area of concern Elephant hunting. A group that I hunt with in SW Va. really could care less about African or any other foreign area of hunting as they can't and never will be able to afford that hunting. It is sort of like the average Joe getting excited when day rates for Augusta go up.

The tragedy is that while the average Joe may not appreciate that what the USFWS is doing regarding lion, elephant or polar bears impacts him, it most certainly does. The ultimate objective of these groups is to eliminate virtually all sport hunting. They have just started with the animals that they believe are the easiest to rally public sympathy for. When we met with Congressman Poe, he immediate said, this is not about elephant or lions, this is about hunting and more fundamentally gun control. While the average Joe may not own an AR rifle or a high capacity magazine either, he should care about how those items are regulated because those are just the initial focus of a much broader attack on gun ownership. The NRA has done a much better job of helping gun owners understand and embrace that reality.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Bwana, for the average hunter as you said those people do and will always view SCI as an elite group and always will. The name in and of its self does that. The "average" hunter that only chases turkeys, or duck or whitetails etc sees SCI as what the name says International and that does not include them. No I don't have a solution. Just look at the area of concern Elephant hunting. A group that I hunt with in SW Va. really could care less about African or any other foreign area of hunting as they can't and never will be able to afford that hunting. It is sort of like the average Joe getting excited when day rates for Augusta go up.

Hence the world class perception problem. Without a blanket organization one size fits all like NRA we are doomed. FWIW I don't give a damn about automatic weapons, high capacity magazines antique firearms etc.

Maybe someone besides SCI needs to be created.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The tragedy is that while the average Joe may not appreciate that what the USFWS is doing regarding lion, elephant or polar bears impacts him, it most certainly does. The ultimate objective of these groups is to eliminate virtually all sport hunting. They have just started with the animals that they believe are the easiest to rally public sympathy for. When we met with Congressman Poe, he immediate said, this is not about elephant or lions, this is about hunting and more fundamentally gun control. While the average Joe may not own an AR rifle or a high capacity magazine either, he should care about how those items are regulated because those are just the initial focus of a much broader attack on gun ownership. The NRA has done a much better job of helping gun owners understand and embrace that reality.

Right you are Mike.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
The tragedy is that while the average Joe may not appreciate that what the USFWS is doing regarding lion, elephant or polar bears impacts him, it most certainly does. The ultimate objective of these groups is to eliminate virtually all sport hunting. They have just started with the animals that they believe are the easiest to rally public sympathy for. When we met with Congressman Poe, he immediate said, this is not about elephant or lions, this is about hunting and more fundamentally gun control. While the average Joe may not own an AR rifle or a high capacity magazine either, he should care about how those items are regulated because those are just the initial focus of a much broader attack on gun ownership. The NRA has done a much better job of helping gun owners understand and embrace that reality.

Very true...

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

Does anyone have a link to a Word version of this Dear Colleague letter? I would like to send it directly to my staff contacts at the Montana Congressional delegation asking Senators Walsh and Tester and Representative Daines to sign it!

Yes, I have a Word copy. Send me your email address, mjines@live.com, and I will forward it to you.

UPDATE FROM SCI:
We wanted to provide you an update of on-going activities for the Zimbabwe and Tanzania elephant importation issue. Please read the whole note as we have some good news and some setbacks.

• the D.C. federal district court delivered some disappointing but not altogether unexpected news in our lawsuit to challenge the elephant importation bans for Zimbabwe and Tanzania. The court denied our motion for a preliminary injunction. This means that the court will not order the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to lift the bans for the period of time that it takes us to pursue the complete lawsuit. The court based its ruling on a determination that the ban is not causing SCI members and others the type of irreparable harm necessary for emergency relief. Although the court acknowledged that hunters are in fact suffering harms from the importation bans, the Court did not find that these harms qualify as “irreparable” under the applicable legal standards. Safari Club’s litigation attorneys are currently reviewing the court’s ruling and are researching the questions of whether we should appeal this ruling and how an appeal would affect our ongoing litigation challenge to the importation ban. We expect to make a decision about the appeal very soon and will apprise you of our decision as soon as it is made. Please be assured that today’s ruling does not affect our underlying lawsuit and be confident that we are continuing to aggressively pursue this legal challenge against the importation bans.

• You will recall that SCI worked with Congressman Bob Latta and Don Young to circulate a “Dear Colleague” letter requesting that the FWS reverse their Zimbabwe and Tanzania import ban. Twenty-five members of Congress signed the letter to Director Ashe. A copy of the letter itself is attached.

• On Monday June 9th, Charles Jonga, Director General of CAMPFIRE Association of Zimbabwe will present to the Obama Administration’s Wildlife Trafficking Advisory Council. You will recall that Charles joined us for high level meetings here in Washington for lobby day. It is because of those meetings and his impact with those he met, that he was granted the opportunity to address the Advisory Council. SCI Director of Litigation Anna Seidman is also scheduled to provide public comment at that meeting. She will use that opportunity to explain SCI’s lawsuit and to describe why the importation bans are counterproductive to the Wildlife Trafficking Advisory Council’s efforts.

• On Tuesday June 10th, Charles will have meeting with the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, and the Foreign Operations Appropriations Staff. Then after lunch he will be giving another presentation to over 100 congressional staffers as part of a briefing hosted by SCI Foundation and the International Conservation Caucus Foundation.

• On Thursday June 5th, SCI staff, along with representatives of NRA, the Natural Resources Committee staff, and others met with the FWS International Affairs staff to discuss Director’s Order 210 which bans the domestic trade in Ivory. During this meeting we were unable to ask questions about the status of repealing the Zimbabwe and Tanzania import ban. However we were able to impress upon the FWS that their arbitrary restriction of 2 elephants per year per hunter was poorly considered, likely in violation of the African Elephant Conservation Act, and had zero justification via CITES trade standards.

• On June 24th, the Natural Resources Committee will hold an oversight hearing on the negative actions taken by the U.S. FWS to limit domestic ivory trade and the negative impacts of their importation ban for conservation in Africa. SCI recommended that Director General Edson Chidziya of Zimbabwe’s Parks and Wildlife Management Authority be a primary witness. The other panelist will be Director Dan Ashe. SCI has also been offered a position to testify.

I will post the letter shortly

I am a little disappointed Senator Vitter did not sign the letter, however he did send his own letter to USF&W and seems to be helping.

I am very pleased Congressman Boustany signed the letter. He is my Congressman and we were able to meet with him on Lobby Day last month. I guess we did a little good.

A very anemic response.

Saeed,

It's all SCI's fault. There beat you to it.

Jeff

It is good to see the names of the people who are on our side.

I said it before.
We need one big powerful organization for all of us like NRA otherwise we die slow death piece by piece.
The other day I was having beer in local brewery and one guy ( he is avid hunter ) brought up elephant hunting and said this exactly. " I can't believe, they still allow elephant hunting in Africa, they are so endangered, there is almost none left "
So I educated him a bit and I think he definitely left with different point of view.
My point again, " One for all and all for one "
Until our reps are able to curb these rogue gov organizations, we are screwed...

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I said it before.
We need one big powerful organization for all of us like NRA otherwise we die slow death piece by piece.
The other day I was having beer in local brewery and one guy ( he is avid hunter ) brought up elephant hunting and said this exactly. " I can't believe, they still allow elephant hunting in Africa, they are so endangered, there is almost none left "
So I educated him a bit and I think he definitely left with different point of view.
My point again, " One for all and all for one "
Until our reps are able to curb these rogue gov organizations, we are screwed...

I have always said if you are a law abiding gun owner you should be in the NRA.

If you are a hunter you should be in a national organization that protects our rights. The same goes for fishing, it would be nice to see one all encompassing sportsman's organization. SCI is the closest thing we have now on a national level.

NRA-5,000,000 members
SCI-55,000 members

Until the deer hunters and duck hunters understand they can lose their right to hunt you will never see the numbers the NRA has. We have basically loss our right to fish offshore in the Gulf of Mexico due to the extreme mismanagement of the NMFS. On property I once hunted it is no longer available to hunt because of the USF&W's "concern" for the black bear in our area.

Most hunters could not care less about the elephant because it does not affect them. As the Fed's keep chipping away at our rights, it eventually will impact them, whether they want to believe it or not.

Right you are Mike.

Spot on. And until we stop bickering among ourselves and turn words into actions we will continue to lose ground to our opponents.

Much of what you folks are saying is true, but in order to affect change and include the unwashed masses, you have to present something to them that at the very least offers some sort of connection to what hunting is in their lives.

As mentioned, the name itself indicates it is for people way above their income tax bracket. Then they look at Safari magazine and see nothing but stories on ele, lion or genetically modified whitetails behind fence for $30,000. And lately it would include articles on fine wines, cigars, custom rifles that represent about ten years of their net income, how to select fine jewellery and bios of very wealthy men who are benefactors of SCI.

The club is heading in the wrong direction with how they present themselves and the goals and objectives of the organization.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

NRA-5,000,000 members
SCI-55,000 members

Until the deer hunters and duck hunters understand they can lose their right to hunt you will never see the numbers the NRA has. We have basically loss our right to fish offshore in the Gulf of Mexico due to the extreme mismanagement of the NMFS. On property I once hunted it is no longer available to hunt because of the USF&W's "concern" for the black bear in our area.

Most hunters could not care less about the elephant because it does not affect them. As the Fed's keep chipping away at our rights, it eventually will impact them, whether they want to believe it or not.

Ducks Unlimited has close to 600K members.

I am surprised that SCI has 55K members.

A lot of serious local hunters (serious defined by amount of dollars and time they allocate to hunting) I know are far more concerned about state level regulation of whitetail deer transport, local level issues relating to poaching on their high fenced operations and other very local issues to be really concerned about elephant hunting or african hunting in general. All these issues for them are also mainly in Mississippi where they own their acreage. When I talk about hunting in Africa its alien to them. These are guys that hunt 60-100 days a year and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars minimum on their hunting operations.

To get everyone under some single organization that cares as much for elephant hunters as ducks or deer is near impossible.

And the more I learn about hunting Africa the less likely I am to ever give any money to SCI. I can buy my hunting services and wares as easily in Dallas as in Vegas.

SCI and even DSC are far closer to National Shooting Sports Foundation than the NRA. Basically organize trade shows to sell hunting services and other stuff.

Mike

quote:

To get everyone under some single organization that cares as much for elephant hunters as ducks or deer is near impossible.

I would like to think everybody would care about the right to hunt more than anything.

The NRA has done a good job of not giving ground. It would be easy for many members and even the organization to throw the "black" guns under the bus to appease the anti-gun crowd. The leadership is smart enough to know they would not stop with those firearms.

I believe it is truly the goal of many to end all hunting. They are patient and will chip away at our rights until they reach their ultimate goal.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
A very anemic response.

Saeed,

It's all SCI's fault. There beat you to it.

Jeff

Ok Ok Jeff,

You are nice guy and I consider you a good friend.

I will let this one pass, but I have to work on upping the ant a bit - just to keep Ed on his toes

Everyone is right here
We do need one for all, simple as that
Look at the wolf issue
It took us 15 years to get them delisted
Fight USFWA every which way and hard
Them SOB's need to be taught who is the boss

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
A very anemic response.

Saeed,

It's all SCI's fault. There beat you to it.

Jeff

Ok Ok Jeff,

You are nice guy and I consider you a good friend.

I will let this one pass, but I have to work on upping the ant a bit - just to keep Ed on his toes

Saeed,

Maybe you are being a little hard on Ed. He claims to know absolutely nobody in the SCI hierarchy, yet he knows beyond all doubt that efforts from AR members had NOTHING to do with SCI reeling in their blatant stupidity.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
A very anemic response.

Saeed,

It's all SCI's fault. There beat you to it.

Jeff

Ok Ok Jeff,

You are nice guy and I consider you a good friend.

I will let this one pass, but I have to work on upping the ant a bit - just to keep Ed on his toes

Saeed,

Maybe you are being a little hard on Ed. He claims to know absolutely nobody in the SCI hierarchy, yet he knows beyond all doubt that efforts from AR members had NOTHING to do with SCI reeling in their blatant stupidity.

Jeff

I do know for a fact that some AR members will never be invited to join the inner circle at SCI or receive one of their much coveted awards. Especially after the recent lets start a booking and travel agency stupidity at SCI.

Mike