quote:

Even 100 years wont change the nyati physiology of having the largest andrenal glands, by weight, of any animal.

Is that true?

Folks,

A buffalo hunt is not the expereince in Texas that it is in the Luangwa valley, Selous, Masailand or anywhere in wild Africa. I personally don't believe it is even comparable to RSA on a ranch. TX and anywhere in Africa are quite different. I do think it would be fun and I have no problem others doing it.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:


... is shopping for cows and more bulls.

What do you bet some of the purchased bulls are hunted within a year. What sort of enclosure was the bull in previously and for how long was it kept in it? Perhaps a consideration.

Personally I think it is cool to have cape buffalo on the ranch if you were hunting plains game, but I wouldn't hunt them there.

quote:

Safari-Hunt:

That is what is happening in South Africa anyway you buy game at the auctions either for new genes or to reintroduce a specie on the game farm but they don't get 5 star treatment they get dropped off and thats it on their own they have to go. Sometimes they get put into holding pens for a couple of days especially the more expensive game just to check that they don't die or get sick of stress but after that they are own their own.

Yep, and they are often "re-stocked" each year as well from next years auction.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
This not my cup of tea at all but I think some folks aren't recognizing that most things in life are on a continuum...

It's okay to import pheasants from China and Chukar from the Southern Asia and hunt them becuase it was done 150 years ago but not ok to import Cape Buffalo from Africa and hun them 15 years from now?


Not too many folks complain about Gemsbok in New Mexico or Aoudad but Cape Buffalo are not okay?

Red Stag in Argentina but no Cape Buffalo in Texas?

My point is if you accept one introduced species and its okay to hunt it then objecting to another one is just a matter of tastes as opposed to principal.

I guess my Mule Deer on Catlina Island was wrong also? Cause they were intoduced by CA DFG in 1920?

I agree Mark.

Also, don't forget the ever popular Tahr, Chamois and Red Stags in New Zealand, and the various forms of asiatic water buffalo hunting in Australia, Florida, most of South America, etc etc.

Or Hog hunting in NA (other than peccary).

The list goes on and on.

Cape buff in Tx is not my cup of tea, but if its someone else's thats fine.


Cheers,
Canuck

I wonder how those suckers would do in the bull fight ring or as rodeo bulls?

Having seen all three in action, I would say rodeo bulls and Spanish fighting bulls are both more aggressive when they are healthy and not wounded. That being said, get a cape buffalo in the "plaza de toros", poke and prod him like you do a fighting bull, and get the adrenalin flowing, it would probably be a fight to be seen!

Not only do I see nothing wrong with this but I'll also go on record as being interested in hunting there. True, it's not the "Afrika" experience but it would really be a new experience all together. Think about it, you could hunt Cape Buffalo by day and go for really good Mexican food at night. You would also be in close proximity to Texas women! Can't get them in the Selous...........

Slug,

I didn't even think of that! You are truly a man of vision. Take it from me, a guy that lives in Texas, we have some VERY nice looking ladies.

Bad, bad, bad idea. I'm happy to have axis, black buck, and fallow running around -- but, having experience w. the problems that Russian Boars cause running loose, I can only imagine the hell that a wild population of Cape Buffalo would cause.

I wish him well in his venture. Not my cup of tea now, but who knows. You cannot forecast what Africa is going to be like in another few years.

Interesting, at one of the ranches where we help to keep the boar population in check, I was told that there are more blackbuck now in Texas than in all of India. They are even starting to export them back to India.

To import cape buff here, they will have to be the disease free and immune variety. Plenty of room in the Western part of the State. Maybe someday they will end up exporting them back to Africa.

As for our other "fauna", it is certainly a scenic state!

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Slug,

I didn't even think of that! You are truly a man of vision. Take it from me, a guy that lives in Texas, we have some VERY nice looking ladies.

Eland Slayer, how far are you from Waco?

I spent a month picking up a new airplane for the Navy in Waco in 2005. Yes there are tons of really atractive women in Texas, but of my 12 guys only one or two got anywhere.

You Texans have them all brainwashed that non-Texans are no-good.

Hell we couldn't even get into half the bars we wanted to go into, because we didn't have a Texas drivers lisence. What is that about?

Yeah, I am certain that putting them in side 37,000 acres free ranging will amke them less dangerous and easier to kill...


yeah...


anyway, techincally, blackbucks are NOW native to texas, as they have been shot to extinction TWICE in their native areas, and free ranging texas BBs were sent back..

quote:

You Texans have them all brainwashed that non-Texans are no-good.

It's an easy sell.

its easy to sell what women want to buy

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
anyway, techincally, blackbucks are NOW native to texas, as they have been shot to extinction TWICE in their native areas, and free ranging texas BBs were sent back..

Funny that as I have seen lots of blackbuck in their traditional areas in Rajahstan. Where they have always been.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
anyway, techincally, blackbucks are NOW native to texas, as they have been shot to extinction TWICE in their native areas, and free ranging texas BBs were sent back..

Funny that as I have seen lots of blackbuck in their traditional areas in Rajahstan. Where they have always been.

Wow, john, you certainly know more than the biologist, who study the animals

quote:

Today, blackbucks exist in small numbers in three or four locations of Pakistan, particularly in Kirthar, Sindh and Lal Sohanra National Parks in Punjab. Over 413 animals are being currently bred in the Lal Sohanra Park. More blackbucks are provided to the eminent conservationists from time to time for further conservation in Lal Sohanra’s private reserve. At present, about 500 blackbucks are surviving in the Mir of Khairpur Mehrano reserve, 110 at Khangarh and 70 at New Jatoi, Nawab Shah. Apart from these, a small number is kept in zoos, wildlife centers and private farms and houses.

These a animals, just like in the 70s, are at the brink of being totally destroyed in india and pakistann.

and, once again, they'll dart and ship them back to india.

There are more BB on the YO ranch than left in the entire subcontinent. Sure, it's a only 100,000 acres or more, and only a single ranch....

they are fairly common to see, free ranging, in the hill country and south texas.

i guess you and I differ on the meaning of "alot"

jeffe

I hunted the Onion Creek ranch outside of Austin a few years ago. At that time, they had 2000+ blackbuck on the ranch. They were culling and trapping/relocating. The animals were originally stocked long ago, perhaps late 30's, and were the brood stock for the King Ranch, according to the owner. Bob

if there's a demand, a market will be established. longhorns were almost non-exsistant by 1920. in the '70s & '80s there was an explosion in the breeding of Texas Longhorn. now they are cheap and readily availiable. Cape Buffalo could be THE next exotic in Texas. hell, they're cattle, we're good at cattle!

quote:

Originally posted by kweber:
if there's a demand, a market will be established. longhorns were almost non-exsistant by 1920. in the '70s & '80s there was an explosion in the breeding of Texas Longhorn. now they are cheap and readily availiable. Cape Buffalo could be THE next exotic in Texas. hell, they're cattle, we're good at cattle!

Hmmmm..... Could you crossbreed a Cape buffalo with a longhorn?!

I want to hunt Africa when I retire and can devote more time and money to the pursuit but am excited that Texas (a mere day's drive for me) may one day have African game for the hunting.

It doesn't take too much imagination to believe that we may, one day, have a reasonably full complement of African game to hunt right here on our continent.

Many, like me, are worried about disease, snakes, tse tse flies, restrictions on handguns, having our guns stolen by airlines staff etc. not to mention the fact that the political climate is quite unstable in most of Africa.

Africa will always be the essence of hunting but I predict a smashing success for Texas/African game farms especially those offering dangerous game hunts.

Hunting within the US by American hunters is bound to be very attractive to a large segment of hunters.

$bob$

LDHunter,

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there is already quite a bit of African game to hunt here in Texas. Places like the 777 Ranch and the 74 Ranch are famous for their African game. It's not cheap, but I have started seeing a slight decrease in the prices of certain species. The only African animal I have hunted was an Eland bull here in Texas. It wasn't a put and take hunt, that's for sure. The herd had been living on the ranch for over 40 years. It took 6 full days of hunting to finally get a decsent shot at the bull I was looking for.

While we're on the subject of African game in Texas, here is a picture of a HUGE Kudu bull taken on the 74 Ranch last year. He scored 147 7/8 SCI!!! They charge $10,000 for them, though.

Here's a few more pictures of African game from the 74 Ranch:

quote:

Originally posted by The Slug:
Not only do I see nothing wrong with this but I'll also go on record as being interested in hunting there. True, it's not the "Afrika" experience but it would really be a new experience all together. Think about it, you could hunt Cape Buffalo by day and go for really good Mexican food at night. You would also be in close proximity to Texas women! Can't get them in the Selous...........

How does that song go? Oh yeah! God Blessed Texas!!

Damn, those are some very nice trophies. The sable is tremendous and looks better than most from the continent.

Another major plus for having African game in Texas is for some people who might not want to go to Africa. They might just want to stay in Texas and hunt one African animal. There's no flying and such, and therefore it ends up being cheaper (for some animals) and they get to keep the meat. My Eland hunt was kind of a deal like that. We had booked a hunt to RSA several years ago and had to cancel for financial reasons. The #1 animal on my list was an Eland. So, I found out about a special they were having on the Camp Cooley Ranch for Eland. I got a trophy bull for $1,750 (1/2 price). When you add in the $150/day for 6 days and the tips for the guide it came close to $3,000 total. But it was the most fun hunt I've ever been on and we ended up with over 600 lbs. of Eland meat!!! That was in November of 2003 and we still have Eland meat in the freezer!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
anyway, techincally, blackbucks are NOW native to texas, as they have been shot to extinction TWICE in their native areas, and free ranging texas BBs were sent back..

Funny that as I have seen lots of blackbuck in their traditional areas in Rajahstan. Where they have always been.

Wow, john, you certainly know more than the biologist, who study the animals

quote:

Today, blackbucks exist in small numbers in three or four locations of Pakistan, particularly in Kirthar, Sindh and Lal Sohanra National Parks in Punjab. Over 413 animals are being currently bred in the Lal Sohanra Park. More blackbucks are provided to the eminent conservationists from time to time for further conservation in Lal Sohanra’s private reserve. At present, about 500 blackbucks are surviving in the Mir of Khairpur Mehrano reserve, 110 at Khangarh and 70 at New Jatoi, Nawab Shah. Apart from these, a small number is kept in zoos, wildlife centers and private farms and houses.

These a animals, just like in the 70s, are at the brink of being totally destroyed in india and pakistann.

and, once again, they'll dart and ship them back to india.

There are more BB on the YO ranch than left in the entire subcontinent. Sure, it's a only 100,000 acres or more, and only a single ranch....

they are fairly common to see, free ranging, in the hill country and south texas.

i guess you and I differ on the meaning of "alot"

jeffe

Jeff

Guess I'd better do more 'swatting up' on the net to find out the 'facts'.

But these kind of look like wild blackbuck to me in the Bishnoi areas near Jodhpur in India.



Never been to Texas so no idea about how many are there.

Hunting an "exotic" blackbuck out of its home territory is about the only way it can be done legally nowadays however.

...yawn...

Huh? Oh, sorry...musta dozed off while waiting for the subject of AFRICAN hunting to come back around...

Look, I can barely take responsibility for my own actions, much less find time to worry about what blows anybody else's dress up. That said, I will submit that while hunting African species in Texas may be some form of hunting, it isn't AFRICAN hunting...and never will be.

For both the She-Wolf and me, hunting in Africa is about the experience as much or more than the final bag. African hunting is never going to be cheap or easy or head-ache free, but the roadblocks are seldom insurmountable. A different country with different people, different food, different customs...hell, even a different sky overhead...that's what makes African hunting so damned...African!

Whack a well-fed, predator-free kudu or the like out at Mountain Home if you must, but you've cheated yourself out of a wealth of experiences and memories that last far longer than any pile of protein in the freezer. Come back from a first safari and feel free to tell me I was wrong...

Hunt buffalo with Bubba? Eland with Earl? Kudu with Cookie? I'm gonna have to pass...

Mark

Tell you what I WILL do: If (more like when) any of those buff out Marfa-way wander through a washed-out water gap and get loose, I'd pay to see Ray Atkinson rope one! I ain't helping though; never was worth a damn with a lariat!

con cuidado...

218 Bee,

I totally agree with you that hunting African game in Texas is NOT the same as hunting in Africa. I would never even attempt to compare those to each other. I think we should look at African game in Texas as creating AN ENTIRELY NEW hunting opportunity and experience, not a substitute for hunting in Africa. Just because the animals are in Texas, it sure as hell doesn't make them act any differently (as long as they aren't conditioned to people). Many places in Texas offer fair chase, legitimate hunts for both African game as well as many other kinds of exotics. Like I said, we shouldn't look at exotic hunting as a substitute for hunting anywhere else. We should look at it as a brand new Texas hunting opportunity, because that's what it is.

Looking at the pictures from 74 Ranch and seeing how much you are paying for some of the animals, could the pros or quides at least learn how to set the animal up for a proper trophy shot ????

Here are the 74 Ranch's prices:

$375/day (which is a little high for exotic hunting)

TROPHY FEES

Eland $5,000

Elk $5,500

Gemsbok $4,500

Kudu $10,000

Sable $15,000

Zebra $6,500

Aoudad $3,500

Axis Deer $1,800

Blackbuck $1,800

Fallow Deer $1,800

A few of their animals are a little overpriced in relation to other ranches (their Eland, Sable, Zebra, and Aoudad are overpriced).

Does it affect anyone else if someone wants to hunt African game in Texas?

Eland Slayer,

Nothing about hunting exotics in Texas is anything approaching NEW, save this latest addition of syncerus caffer. These biological lawn ornaments have been around the Lone Star state for decades.

Comparing any two things (be they apples and oranges or the behavior of animals in different locales) requires, I believe, a knowledge of both things being discussed, yes? You said "it sure as hell doesn't make them act any differently (as long as they aren't conditioned to people)" and I might agree with you...if that were always the case.

You post some mighty big dollar trophy fees for these operations. Do you honestly believe that an operation like this wouldn't protect its investment by feeding? And those whopper horns...grown by great genetics and old age alone? You're a Texan...you may know what Edwards and Real counties look like six months into a dry summer. Animals learn the sound of the feed wagon as well as Pavlov's dog ever did! We won't even discuss those zebra-striped jeeps...

I drove by the entrance to the Y-Ho just this weekend, as well as another well known game-pimp operation just down the road from there. If that is the experience that some want, I'm sure as hell not going to arm wrestle 'em for it!

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Does it affect anyone else if someone wants to hunt African game in Texas?

Yes, apparently it makes them angry.

Here are some more pictures of African game hunted on a few different Texas Ranches:

These are from the Circle E Ranch:

Red Lechwe


54" Kudu


Another nice Kudu


BIG Waterbuck (they claim it's 37", but I don't know if I believe that)



These are from the Black Eagle Ranch:

Thompsons Gazelle


Nyala


Another Nyala


40"+ Sable


Addax



These are from the 777 Ranch

Gemsbok


Grants Gazelle


Nile Lechwe



These are from the Fort McKavett Ranch:

Nyala


Springbok



These are a few Eland Bulls from Garry Wright Safaris:

218 Bee,

Just so you are aware, I know exotics aren't "new" to Texas, but they are relatively new to some people who have never heard much about them, much less hunted them. Also, I don't really care for the Y.O., or "Y-Ho" as you call it (that made me grin ) The Texas Hill Country is anything but ideal for raising animals. It has low rainfall, lots of rocks, crappy vegetation in most parts, etc... Animals generally do much better in South Texas and Eastern Texas.

This came up on a previous post about Buffalo hunting in Texas, so I'll repeat some of my original comments. I know that we are all supposed to come together as fellow hunters and support other forms of hunting, but come on guys, enough is enough. I have accepted the reason hunters are drawn to these types of hunts for the goats, sheep, etc. and I have even hunted wild boar in this fashion, but African game? I already have to mentally question every Whitetail and Elk mount that I see in someones basement. Now I will have do to the same for our beloved African species too? A Buffalo? You've got to be kidding! Doesn't anyone remember the awe we had growing up when we saw a nice Elk on the wall, or even a Whitetail for that matter? It was the same type of feeling that we still have now when we see a big Grizzly or a Dall sheep mount. Because we know that they could only have been taken (as a rule) with great difficulty, they become more that just a mount, they become a "trophy"! Having the market flooded with captive shot mounts cheapens everyone in the long run. And I don't agree with the sentiment found here that we shouldn't care what floats another hunters boat. Really? Well who should care about our sport? Do we all want a world where Lions, Polar Bears, Bongo, and mountain sheep can all be taken on a weekend at the ranch of your choice? And here is what I say to the reasoning that says that Africa can't be afforded or is too difficult in some way, so might be out of reach for some hunters. "Too Bad!!!". We can't all have everything we want in life and that's what makes a Bonga, a Buffalo, a perfectly cut diamond or a perfectly formed Redhead a precious thing. We can't send back the pheasants or Aoudad or Russian Boar, but let's not let it go any further...

I will quit hunting if I have to hunt African animals in Texas. That is crap and no amount of selling can convince me that hunting buff or bongo or whatever in Texas even remotely resembles hunting.

It's not for me but to each his own.

Guys,

If Peter Flack wanted a big mule deer do you think he would start looking around in RSA? I don't think so. He would want that western North American experience. Of that I'm quite sure.

I said this before and others have said the same. If you shoot a kudu, bongo or whatever African animal in TX all you've done is shoot something. You've completely cheated yourself out of the safari experience. It would be great fun I'm sure and if someone comes to me and wants to do that I'll be more than glad to arrange the best possible hunt for them. I just won't try to market it as a substitute for Africa.

Mark

I must laugh when I read some of the posts on this thread. Who really gives a shit that some can't compare hunting a kudu in Texas to Namibia. It isn't and doesn't try to be...it is simply hunting kudu in Texas. Trust me I've seen some ranch reared animals in RSA and Namibia that were not the slightest bit afraid of the feed truck, some had tags in their ears! Calling that hunting just because it is in Africa is a sham at best. 10 trophy animals on a 7 day safari doesn't happen while hunting free range animals without a tremendous amount of skill/luck.
I don't care what you spend your cash on..Texas or RSA. But if you have an extra $15K in your checking account I'll go with you for one of those huge sable as your guest or fly over to Tanzania with you for a 7 day buffalo hunt.