Here is one for all you prospective Lion hunters.

Last day of your very expensive Lion safari and on the way to the airstrip I spot this one (photo taken two days ago at Royal Kafue) but I have a quandary. The damn thing refuses to open his mouth for a pre molar inspection.

What to do? As you do not have time to monitor this Lion. He looks alone and is lying up in the shade in the middle of a plain. Just like the photo in the brochure. Plus you could take him on foot.

I presume if I turned him down my client would immediately think that I either do not have a Lion on license or I was coming down with sunstroke.



Look a little closer to his left (left of the white stick) you will see the head of a Lioness.

shoot him, check the teeth, if not acceptable to LEDVM dig hole and bury.

Shoot him and pull a few teeth out. Nice lion

Bang...

Choot im....

I usually assume the PH knows what he is doing.

Shoot him, take hammer to his teeth, paint the nose black , smile for the camera.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
shoot him, check the teeth, if not acceptable to LEDVM dig hole and bury.

Wonder what Lane would do?

get the female away from him so he can get a word in edgewise, then he'll have a chance to open his mouth

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:
Shoot him, take hammer to his teeth, paint the nose black , smile for the camera.

+1 Jerry...

Hello Wildlife Gallery, full mount please!

Damn, when I saw the subject, just somehow, mad Bob came to mind! Must be Springtime and hope renewed.
Other than that, the kitty is worth a rapid nitrocellulose burn.

Fairgame is it your policy not to shoot a lion in a pride. As far as I know it's not Zambian policy.

quote:

shoot him, check the teeth, if not acceptable to LEDVM dig hole and bury.

Now that's funny!

quote:

Shoot him, take hammer to his teeth, paint the nose black , smile for the camera.

And so is that...


As others have said, if the PH says "shoot", I'm following his instructions!

Andrew,

I'd leave the final decision to you of course but he looks very good and unless the female has dependent cubs I think he fits the criteria.

Mark

See what happens when you don't read the entire post. I hadn't read Andrew's final comment about the lioness, and thought I was cleverly the only guy who spotted that 2nd kitty. Well, what I dumbsh*t I was.

But he isn't alone. There is another lion, appears to be a mature male, lying to his right, in the brush to the left of the picture. Depending on whether its mane or shadows, could also be a female. All you can easily see is its chin, black nose and right ear, with a hint that the body lays to your left. At a minimum, take a moment to see if the other lion if bigger/better/more mature or even a male.

All that said, if my PH says shoot, its gonna get real loud, real quick.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
shoot him, check the teeth, if not acceptable to LEDVM dig hole and bury.

Wonder what Lane would do?

WWLD............just remeber this anytime you are hunting lions!

SHOOT HIM? ...........

................One or both barrels?

..................

Is that a cub's chin and ear in the bushes just to Mrs. Shumba's right?

quote:

What to do? As you do not have time to monitor this Lion. He looks alone and is lying up in the shade in the middle of a plain

OK, so no time to monitor, what happens after you shoot, approach and find that you also blew a hole in the 2 dependant cubs snuggled up to his backside?

Out of curiosity, where would you shoot him if he was lying down like that?

As long as you agreed I would gladly take him!

I would take him if you give me your OK!

Andrew...I would be awaiting the green light from you,Given that... cover your ears.

He is a great looking Lion. However I would guess him to be 6 or 7. There is little doubt in my mind that he is in prime breeding condition. There is also little doubt that he is a pride Lion. I thought that was one of the most important rules. Don't shoot pride Lions.

It would be very tuff, but I hope I would have the strength of will to walk away.

Bob

Elegant solution. Shoot him in the mouth.

Thanks Andrew...I always knew you had my back.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
shoot him, check the teeth, if not acceptable to LEDVM dig hole and bury.

Wonder what Lane would do?

Not even a question for me...I can't see his ass-hole and being from Texas...I have a sworn pact to never shoot a lion unless I can take a Texas Heart Shot.

If the PH says shoot......

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
shoot him, check the teeth, if not acceptable to LEDVM dig hole and bury.

Wonder what Lane would do?

Not even a question for me...I can't see his ass-hole and being from Texas...I have a sworn pact to never shoot a lion unless I can take a Texas Heart Shot.

This post is why, after a lot of pondering possibilities and situations, soul searching, etc., I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I don't need to hunt lion. I tend to second guess myself to death, and with a lion, I'm afraid I'd never be convinced enough to shoot. And if I did, I'd worry about it afterwards.

This is why I pay the PH.

He looks excellent, and I would be happy to shoot him for his looks. With the other Lion around, its going to be a definite judgement call by the PH here. If he knows his area and his cats, he will probably be able to tell me pretty quickly.

I can understand the PH's quandary here- the client is going to likely be unhappy if he doesn't shoot this cat, especially if this is his "one and only" crack at a Lion. He'd be even more ticked off if he was called off, and then the next guy shoots that same cat (after the PH has a chance to really evaluate the situation.)

I guess that's why PH's are making the big bucks...

How would you class these two lions I took in the Kruger last week?

Shooter or non shooter

Andrew,
I want to believe that you really know what you would do in this situation yet you have not shared this with us? So what is it going to be?

As for me, I would question as to whether or not the hunting permit would still be valid "on the last day heading to the airport" scenario you potrayed?? If not, would that not indicate the client is either a) leaving early which is fine, or b) being short-changed a hunting day which he would have no doubt paid some funds towards? Regardless of the above, if I was the client, I stand with Venda Axe (except on the age ). If I was the Ph, I would turn him down. In the latter instance, I have always maintained the importance of having a frank and detailed discussion on the expectations of a lion hunt with the client. Such a scenario as you described, would have been covered in that discussion. I believe it helps to a) minimize the pressure on a PHs decision making, b) helps to put clients' expectations in perspective and c) hopefully educates the client on the requirement and dynamics of lion conservation.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
get the female away from him so he can get a word in edgewise, then he'll have a chance to open his mouth

Now that is funny!!

I say if you feel it is OK to shoot then shoot. Live with your decision and don't give a bat's behind what the self proclaimed experts say.

Bwanamich,

Had I not seen the Lioness hiding in the bush I would have had the client take him. Confident that this was indeed a trophy male in his sixth year. Time would not be on my side here and the mistake if any would be mine.

Others would say that I would have to monitor the Lions (male and female) for a number of days to determine that there were no dependant cubs etc etc.

Effectively we are saying you might as well pack your guns away 5 days prior to the end of your safari?

This photo disproves any tooth ageing theory and is a famous Lion that dominates the Northern Busanga Plains of our Kafue region. The photo is a scanned copy courtesy of one time PH Francois Delby whose vast Lion hunting experience put the Lion at approximately 10 years old. Considering the depth of mane and the numerous years he had been photographed I would tend to agree

This males sharp and pointed teeth however would put him at 4 or 5? Note these Lions prey almost exclusively on the diminutive Puku which are endemic to this region.



Proof that the tooth theory is also a load of codswallop and cannot be relied upon either?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Bwanamich,

Had I not seen the Lioness hiding in the bush I would have had the client take him. Confident that this was indeed a trophy male in his sixth year. Time would not be on my side here and the mistake if any would be mine.

Others would say that I would have to monitor the Lions (male and female) for a number of days to determine that there were no dependant cubs etc etc.

Effectively we are saying you might as well pack your guns away 5 days prior to the end of your safari?

I will probably get some flack for this.

TGT is the only safari company that actually has a group studying lions on their concessions.
That is something we should all be proud of.

They know the lion prides, and they know the ages of the males.

Other PHs do not have this luxury, and have to depend on their own experience and knowledge to decide if a lion is a shooter or not.

But, this raises another tickling question.

When a male becomes old enough to shoot, and they are aware of its location, do they decide which hunter gets that honor?

I am not suggesting that they do, but it certainly raises the question.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
[QUOTE]


TGT is the only safari company that actually has a group studying lions on their concessions.
That is something we should all be proud of.

.

Hi Saeed

I would argue this comment that TGT is the only company that has a study group on Lions, we in the APNR have a full time study group on Lions Leopards Elephants Ground Hornbills and Wild Dogs,

Regards

JK