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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting CNN Jan 14: TrophyGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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One of Us |
Like Cal, I don’t have cable so I couldn’t watch it Vikings game was awesome " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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| one of us |
I watched the first hour; will watch the second hour tonight, but I suspect I am not going to hear anyone say the following: 1. You may find hunting disgusting, but remember that animal rights activists find your consumption of meat disgusting. Pro-life supporters find abortion disgusting. I find sex between two men disgusting. But they are all legal activities, and do not impact your life directly. 2. Photo safaris are almost all done in national parks; who provides funds for the vast game reserves in Tanzania and elsewhere? 3. Anyone who eats meat but objects to hunting is simply compartmentalizing their own morality. | |||
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One of Us |
Reflecting more on the show, I was sorry to see the accurate protrayal of hunting as the animal head/skull on the wall and not the hunt behind it. This addresses both the "fish in a barrel" croc shoot and the sub-adult elephant hunt. When I see emphasis put on photos of trophies hunted but a lack of description of the hunt itself, I think folks missed the goal. It is called "hunting" not "trophying". That croc hunt was absolutely as far from hunting as it could be. Blasting away at a confined animal while someone passes the shooter a beer offends me as a hunter. Shooting the young elephant doesn't offend me, what offends me is the lack of background on why this animal was selected for taking. And, related to that is the lack of biology on game animals especially the large herbivores like elephants. Habitat pressures from huge aninmals like elephants is the primary issue in the decline of wildlife worldwide. The acreage of habitat lost througb farming expansion, erosion, urban sprawl has to be part of the argument of value. I just finished watching the film and I believe, in very subtle ways, it presented a stronger "anti-hunting" versus "middle ground" message. This is the real image I carry from this film: A young American woman loudly protesting against hunting, yelling that she is a vegan. It contrasts deeply with the very thin bodied villagers waiting in line to gain a few pounds of elephant muscle or guts to hang for biltong while they live in mud brick huts hoping the elephants won't wipe out their crops or the lion take their last surviving cow. | |||
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One of Us |
+1 more to all of Larry's comments. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
I didn't even know there was such a thing as "Canned Croc Hunts" till I watched this show and it was truly disgusting. I understand the own use concept of that elephant hunt, but why oh why did they not do the immediate follow up shots to kill it quickly? It was very sloppy to say the least. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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One of Us |
More balanced than I expected. Kept saying they were in "Africa" people will think that's what it's like everywhere in Africa. Did not hear that hunting goes on in many African countries, and things are done differently in other countries. Misleading. | |||
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One of Us |
If I were to write my own analysis, it would be identical. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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| One of Us |
It may have been somewhat balanced but it was a very disjointed movie. The was no flow or narrative to it to link all the pieces together. Unless one was familiar with the subject matter I think it would be very confusing. | |||
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| new member |
I agree with Larryshores perspective on the show! Unfortunately if it had made us as hunters look better the antis wouldn't have watched it, it was as balanced as it could be! More emphasis on the monetary and food benefits to the people, villages would have been a lot better, but if it went to far it may have just looked like bad advertising for hunting. We have to find a way to overcome the image of hunters being cursing beer swilling rednecks who love to just kill shit! I think a lot of people view hunters in this tainted light!! My two cents worth | |||
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| One of Us |
Phillip Glass is a good guy. I don't know him well but I do know him. He is a Texas rancher. Personally I give him a tremendous amount of credit for being willing to deal with all of the fallout of this movie by putting himself out there. He has proven himself to be a much better conservationist and spokesman than SCI, IMHO. Phillip had a short debate with an anti-hunter on CNN earlier this week as a promotion for the showing last night. Phillip handled himself extremely well and knew the facts much better than his adversary. (I just tried to find it but Youtube has pulled the video.) Personally I am glad that we have Phillip, and others like him that are willing to share their love/passion for hunting and conservation. Many of you are much better at this than I am. My hat is off to you as well! | |||
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| One of Us |
PS: As a side note, Phillip hunted this lion and paid big money with the basic understanding that he would never be able to bring his trophy home unless American laws changed. Isn't that really the sign of a true environmentalist. This hunt was about the experience and not something on his wall. Here is hoping that he will get the trophy to go with the experience! | |||
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One of Us |
I agree with all of Larry's comments. to add, I watched the movie with a non-hunter and a PH from Zim on my couch. The PH was obviously appalled, as all of us were, at the half grown elephant death scene. Seriously, who doesn't shoot for the brain and instant death when an ele is on the ground and alive? What PH lets someone shoot that kind of elephant for own use, and what hunter would want to shoot that sort of elephant, especially on a documentary? As expected, I don't think any of the hunters shown were very good examples of hunters that we would want to be portrayed as. I know the producers wanted that, but these folks certainly did not make us look like a very smart group. The croc people just made hunters look like drunk, brainless rednecks. The other guy, though much better, still came off pretty poorly in our collective opinion ... Again, I am sure on purpose, after all the shots of lions in pens, it would have been nice to have made it clear that the lion hunt in the OMay was not a canned/fenced hunt. I think most non-hunters will infer that was one of the cats we saw earlier in a fence. It definitely could have been a lot worse, but it certainly was not filmed to be a real objective look at the issues. Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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One of Us |
Who was the PH in the elephant hunt? | |||
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| One of Us |
The name of the PH on the ele hunt was given in the film. I had never heard of him. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
I didn't get his name. From Aru Game Lodge which I believe is a pretty reputable outfitter. Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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| One of Us |
I’ve hunted with him (but plains game). His name is Gysbert van der Westhuyzen Aru has done a lot of good for Namibia and Hunting in general. They won outfitter of the year at DSC this year. His wife is a PH as well and a good one. I enjoyed hunting with her and recently she became the first woman in Namibia to be dangerous game qualified. | |||
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| One of Us |
He may be a great PH and a great guy. Why in the world would he stand around and let the dying elephant moan and groan while he lights up a cigarette before the finishing shot is administered especially knowing that the camera was rolling? Damn poor judgment at minimum, emphasis on minimum. | |||
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| One of Us |
Exactly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
I am home watching it again . I find the croc even more repulsive the second time around. | |||
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| One of Us |
Honestly I don’t know either. It was bothersome to me as well. Maybe he was distracted by the camera. I’m not saying that I agree with his actions. Honestly I hunted with his wife more. However my experience is that he isn’t deliberately cruel. I don’t know enough about own use animals to comment on why that elephant was chosen so I can’t comment on it. I was just making the point that he and his wife have done a lot for Hunting. I’m not ready to condemn him just yet. I plan to ask at SCI this year and see what he says. | |||
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One of Us |
Not much to add to Larry's and Tim's posts and I agree with both 100%. I watched with my wife, a non-hunter who accompanied me on 6 safaris back in the '90's. She understands hunting and the dynamics. She was appalled at the shooting of the young elephant and then allowing it to suffer! Why a chest shot follow-up rather than a brain shot? In my mind there is no excuse for the PH allowing such to occur. Own use or ration hunts do not mean you take a young animal. I've taken both, a bull and a cow, in Namibia and Zim and both were mature animals. Not much of a fan of the hunter either. Drinking beer while hunting is not appropriate and his shooting skills were marginal. Still, I thought the production was good. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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| One of Us |
I have limited experience, but have done 2 own use hunts. We looked for mature bulls with inferior or broken tusks. Both hunts yielded a bull with a broken tusk. I understand a cow can be taken, but the whole purpose is for max amount of meat and some management, so an older cow with no calf also fits the bill, but most certainly try for bulls. Just no idea why you would shoot a subadult...(and on film) Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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| One of Us |
The locals were not happy with the subadult. They routinely expressed that a larger elephant should have been targeted. Many on this forum have done own use elephants in Namibia focusing on older bulls. It is the only way I would do one of these hunts. I think tourists hunters, which I am, do not do enough mental preparation and animal study. Instead relying on the PH. In the first scene his son says dad he is getting (he being a deer).He tells his son do not shoot. Shoot for crying outload. If you practice it at home you will do it over there. My wife understands and accepts hunting, but does not hunt. She was shouting, and made me change the channel, for them to finish that elephant through the brain. She has heard me and read enough books to know you spine it, finish it through the brain. The real question is are the organized hunting forums/communities/industry/advocacy groups going to learn and proactively dress the issues we have discussed or let Hunting go by the way side. Namibia PH Association needs to lobby that an own use elephant be a certain age class. DSC and SCI need to exclude put and take from record books, and not allow those operations on the flood of a convention. SCI needs to get Dr. Packer to Los Vegas now and announce adoption of a huntable lion. Never too late to do the right thing. DSC and SCI need to give ethics seminars that at least address why we hunt, so folks are not saying I want to shoot a croc for a purse and pair of boats. | |||
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| One of Us |
I watched it again this afternoon. I was wrong about one thing . They did not light the cigarettes until the elephant was finished. Having viewed it a second time, I view the canned hunt even more negatively. I am absolutely astounded that things like that go on. I have a really hard time supporting it. I have to wonder why the hunting organizations allow this type of company to exhibit. The Namibian PH may be great but he sure as hell doesn’t show it in the movie. Phillip Glass may be a great guy. I applaud him for willingly putting himself in the line of fire. I think it is great that he went lion bunting in spite of the import issues. Beyond that, he was far from the best person to represent ethical hunters. I found myself cringing often at what he said. This started with the red bird story. My conclusion remains the same. It could have been better. It could have been worse. | |||
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One of Us |
Interviews with the directors of the film:- http://edition.cnn.com/videos/...erview-berman-nr.cnn https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ture=player_embedded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijdvv9lLx_I ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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One of Us |
I'm sitting here reading the various articles put out after the film was shown, and it struck me..... WHY hasn't a figure in our hunting community that has the talents, the writers, the cameraman put together OUR "Trophy" film and get it on CNN? A film that shows all of the benefits of our hunting, that shows the human factor (locals, hunters) and really paints us as true champions of wildlife. I know collectively funding such a project would not or should not be a problem as our ranks have the financial resources that collectively could fund one hell of a project. I particularly like Shockey's film style as it is barely about the kill, rather the cultures, the impact of hunting, the human factor of the hunters, the locals and the animals. Ted Turner aka Mr. CNN has huge ranches that promote and sell TROPHY hunts..... maybe CNN needs a rebuttal film.... | |||
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| One of Us |
Per Philip editing was done to make the moaning and groaning longer and more dramatic on TV than it was in real life. There were some "creative liberties" taken. | |||
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| One of Us |
Here is the Cuomo debate. It starts at 2:03. Everything before is show clips. https://app.frame.io/f/490ae90...65-bce6-e8f3f015f9ea | |||
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| One of Us |
Shoot it in the head when you first walk up on it and there is nothing to edit. | |||
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| One of Us |
Not to mention that they didn’t exactly rush to the downed elephant. | |||
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| One of Us |
100%! In my upbringing of ele hunting...when an ele goes down in the manner that one did...you get up to it and get an insurance shot into the chest quickly. Then if the animal is still alive at all...one right down the top of the head between the ear-holes. Letting that ele lay there and groan clearly still semicoherent while standing there with a rifle in your hands is cold. I did not think the ele kill was professional at all. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
I would say Mr Glass gave that born free prick a verbal ass kicking of the first degree. Not only did he come off in a very clear and concise manner, but his appearance and demeanor was much more relaxed than the bunny hugger. I would guess the movie was edited for him to look as bad as possible. Thank you Mr Phillip Glass for taking up the good fight. You are much braver than most, damn sure me included. | |||
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| One of Us |
It may be an unpopular opinion but I do think that the filmakers deserve some credit. If you watch their media interviews they admitted that their initial intention was to do a hatchet job on hunting. It wasn't until they got to Africa that they started to realize that what they were seeing didn't jibe with their preconceived notions. They admitted that they had to readjust their thinking to try to understand that hunting could be beneficial. It was particularly painful to them to see the elephant killed. However when the locals showed up for the meat they began to see the value of that elephant in a completely different light. The most interesting person in the film to me was Chris Moore. You could just see the honesty in his face and when he spoke the truth just poured out. If anybody has contact info for Chris I would like to email him and let him know how much I appreciate what he is doing. Finally, CNN is getting a TON of hate mail from the antis. That ought to tell you something. Is the movie perfect? No, but from the hands of admitted anti hunters it is probably the best would could have expected. | |||
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| one of us |
I also watched the show and was impressed with the impartiality. Especially when compared to my assumptions because it was on CNN. The truth, which most of us don't understand and can't justify is that "shooters" have taken over the hunting community and tarnished our image. The guy holding a beer while shooting a croc is far too common in our world. We have all been on trips with guys whose sole purpose of the trip is to kill the targeted animal. They don't do it for the experience. They are the guys who change their flights and jet home as soon as they kill something. Their goal is to collect animals to put on the bragging wall. CNN will always find someone who doesn't respect hunting for the adventure and the chase. Canned hunting happens all the time around the world. Look at all the deer farms selling "hunts" at the shows. I hope people are impressed with Mr. Hume and his struggles in RSA. Hopefully, some new tech bazillionare will see his plight and offer funds. Ski+3 | |||
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| One of Us |
And that folks is why ethics and moral values have gone down shit creek! | |||
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One of Us |
Can’t help but agree. For some, it seems the animals are a means to a nauseating end. | |||
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| One of Us |
I hope an important person at DSC, SCI,and NRA sees this. | |||
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| One of Us |
robncolorado: you will never see a rebuttal film on CNN. I am old enough to remember when Australia instituted their gun control and the NRA tried, at their expense, to produce a film showing how crime had increased, especially to the most vulnerable. None of the major networks would give them the time of day, even if the NRA paid for all the advertising time. It wasn't hard to notice that the cameras gave extra time to all the "blood cleaning" that occurred before photos. Why did the one PH lay down to take pictures with blood all over his leg? No PH I have ever met would do that. "Never, ever, book a hunt with Jeri Booth or Detail Company Adventures" | |||
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| One of Us |
Zig MacIntosh of Osprey has a series of short videos that are outstanding. I have them. I have not obtained a method of posting since Photobucket. I would pay them the $400 but the I phone app doesn’t work. They know it and they aren’t doing anything. If anyone can post videos, PM me. I will send them to you. | |||
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