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Thank you Karl. I just want to make sure everyone knows the difference being blackmailed to exhibit as SCI does, or welcomed for just paying the exhibition fee like DSC DOES. I hope the SCI cheerleaders are listning  | |||
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So ... I must STILL be missing something. Karl implies here that an exhibit booth is free, requireing neither a hunt donation nor a fee, but yet here on the DSC website, it states that a 10'x10' booth costs $2,000 and requires a 50% deposit to hold, once you clear the 500 name waiting list. Just click on the link here and scroll down to the 10'x10' booth pricing. https://biggame.org/convention...hibitor-application/ | |||
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Todd Yes you are misunderstanding. DSC charge a fee to exhibit in the same way SCI do. However DSC do not even ask, let alone require a compulsory additional donation of hunt or money & SCI do. | |||
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Todd: How could you possibly read into my very simple statement regarding DONATIONS that there is no charge for a booth? If the question had been in regards to booth prices, the response would have addressed booth prices. Karl Karl Evans | |||
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Semantics. Money paid to exhibit is money paid to exhibit. Regardless of "what" it is called. The bottom line is X amount goes out for promotion and Y amount comes in as revenue from booked hunts producing Z operating profit. If Z is a negative number, it's a bad business decision to exhibit. If Z is a positive number, it's a good business decision to exhibit. A weak argument differentiating the two if you ask me and the inference that to display at DSC is free when that is clearly NOT the case is even weaker! But do carry on guys! Got to take the wife out now for New Years Eve or else there won't be any more safaris for me to book anyway!  | |||
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Sorry Karl. I don't mean to get into a pissing match with you sir, but clearly, Saeed asked you if "DSC forces outfitters to pay them with a hunt or CASH?" Your response was "No, DSC does not require either a donation of a hunt or a CASH donation". Really, what else am I to understand from that statement? | |||
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Semantics my arse! One insists on a so called 'donation' & the other does not. Insisting on a compulsory 'donation' is extortion. (See the definitions posted previously). No one (except you) suggested DSC don't charge to exhibit but the fact is they don't require an additional 'donation' whereas SCI do. | |||
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Todd: I see no inference to anything except donations...but I wish you a Happy New Year and drive safely tonight. Hope to see you at DSC. Karl Karl Evans | |||
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Let me say it one last way before I have to depart the conversation for the evening. What's the difference if one organization says: It will be $2,000 to exhibit! While the other organization says: It will be $1,000 to exhibit and we'd like you to donate a hunt for the auction. If you don't have a hunt, or if your hunt isn't anything that we don't already have, we need a cash donation instead to go along with the $1,000. Now, should that cash donation equal an additional $1,000, both organizations have effectively charged $2,000 for the booth. Donate more, get a better spot on the floor in the same manner that one would get a better placement in a magazine when placing an add. Last time I checked, placing a 60 second advertisement on TV during the Superbowl is substantially more expensive than placing that exact same 60 second advertisement on "Bob's Red / Green Show" airing at 3:00am in the wee hours of Tuesday morning on an obscure channel. Happy New Years! | |||
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Todd brings up a good point. With all of the expense that exhibiting at SCI entails why outfitters choose to go. Logic says that it must be profitable in the end but when I see all the booths from South Africa I have to wonder how the market can sustain that much competition. I think that the "buy in" at SCI may be a factor. In other words every years the outfitters spend money donating to SCI to build up points. These points translate into better booth placement to the point that they may feel the need to keep doing it so they don't "lose their place". I would love to hear the exhibitors take on this. I'm not looking to bash SCI over it I'm just curious what the prevailing feeling is. | |||
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I hope to meet you there Karl. Best wishes. | |||
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Yes, you are wrong. The donating company can choose to get a % rebate on the donation. All of the big show auctions are the same. I think SCI is up to 30%. Oh no, that could not be true!!!  Dont make stuff up Steve. The convention hire company charges to set up carpet and electricity - the same as they do at all conventions. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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DSC does not 'require' a donation - but just like SCI, if you do not donate you do not get priority points or whatever they call it - to influence booth placement. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Matt I never said otherwise & I'm not making anything up at all. What I said was "As I'm sure you know, SCI charge a series of fees for one to exhibit at the convention. X amount per booth + Y for carpeting + Z for electricity etc & those fees, (plus gate fees) more than pay for the running costs of the convention. The 'donation' is on top of the fees & is compulsory. The more you 'donate' the better location you're liable to get. Which is why people see the 'donation' as something closer to extortion than 'donation'." And that statement is entirely correct...... but if you think otherwise, please do tell me what part of the statement is incorrect? The facts are each individual service is chargeable & with SCI the additional donation is compulsory whereas with DSC, there is no requirement for a donation........ but again, if you think I'm incorrect in that please do tell me in what way I'm incorrect? While you're at it & are such a fan of $CI, can you tell us how much total profit they made from the last convention & what they did with that profit please? | |||
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that can't be true. SCI can only survive by forcing donations PLUS charging for exhibitor space. DSC must be courting bankruptcy with such a policy  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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'SCI' does not charge for carpeting and electricity - and they are not compulsory. If exhibitors WANT those things they payy the Exhibition Centre contractor for them. Let me ask you a question - what does all this have to do with you? ... and I am not 'such a fan' or a 'cheerleader' - it just makes me sick that you twits post few facts and lots of nonsense about this - to talk down a pro-hunting organisation. Same old same... nothing new for you. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Steve, There is no misunderstanding at all. Todd is far too intelligent to misunderstand what was said. He just does not like to see SCI being exposed as they really are. Sometimes the truth hurts ha? I know, it hurts all us as hunters what SCI sometimes gets up to. | |||
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I know how to stop this SCI mess! All of the outfitters that exhibit at the SCI convention just need to say enough is enough and stop going and stop paying. If they just did that, SCI, that corrupt bribe taking organization, would be shut down within a year or two. You don't think that will happen? No, it won't happen because outfitters see advertising value there. | |||
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I know several outfitters who have NEVER got a single booking at the SCI convention - this is coming directly from them. They continue to go, pay the monetary bribe, to meet other hunters. | |||
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Matt You accused me of making things up and yet when I point out everything I said was accurate and asked you to point out what I'd got wrong or had made up, you failed to do so....... the reason for that is everything I said WAS absolutely correct and nothing was made up....... you obviously aren't man enough to acknowledge that. As for your comment "What has it got to do with me?" Why do you want to know. I have as much right to comment as anyone else. You don't rule the world, you don't own the forum and you're not a moderator so you have no right whatsoever to question why my opinions are the way they are! If us 'twits' are posting 'nonsense' as you suggest, why not correct us? - The reason you don't is that you are unable to because what we say is right......... you might not like hearing it but that doesn't make us wrong. I also note you failed to reply to my question of "can you tell us how much total profit they made from the last convention & what they did with that profit please?" so I'll ask it again in the hope you can tell us. In the meantime, I note the exhibitor registration numbers for this year go up to around 5000 so let's do a little maths here just to entertain us. Let's assume that there are just 3000 individual exhibitors and the average 'donation' is US$4000 (many 'donate' considerably more)....... that adds up to a total of US$12M. If you increase those figures to 4000 exhibitors and keep the 'donation' the same then the figure goes up to US$20M. Not only is that an obscene amount of forced 'donation' into the coffers of $CI, it's also an obscene amount to take out of an industry that has relatively low profit margins compared to most others. Then there's the gate money........ I haven't researched those figures but I'll bet they're also astronomical. I'm not against SCI entirely and I'm not against the conventions but I am and always have been entirely against the 'donation' scheme which I consider to be not far short of blackmail and extortion.  Saeed, I'm sure Todd's misunderstanding was completely intentional but was just trying to be polite.  | |||
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Steve, I have been asking this for many years. I would like someone to points me to any place that shows how much SCXI has actually paid to African conservation. I don't want to hears that SCI has paid X amount. What I want to see DETAILS of where that money has gone. I have actually try a google search, and came up with very little. SCI always keeps telling us they have paid millions - where does the money go? | |||
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Saeed, I agree they certainly seem to keep those things very securely tucked away and like you, I find that puzzling. Their supporters are often keen to call $CI a hunting club, lobbying organisation or other BS name but according to their constitution (published on their website) what they actually are is a Corporation so I'd have thought they'd be bound by law to publish their accounts. However, they do seem very hard indeed to track down........ but if my figures are anywhere near right, I'm not at all surprised!  | |||
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I did answer you but you obviously cant read. Maths to entertain you? Yes you do seem to entertain yourself!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Are you suggesting that SCI does not perform a lobbying function? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Matt You didn't answer my question. I asked "can you tell us how much total profit they made from the last convention & what they did with that profit please?" And despite my asking that question twice, you haven't answered it but if you think you have perhaps you can repeat the answer? It's not a complicated question after all...... No. I'm not suggesting SCI do not perform a lobbying function at all and that isn't what I said. What I said was: "Their supporters are often keen to call $CI a hunting club, lobbying organisation or other BS name but according to their constitution (published on their website) what they actually are is a Corporation so I'd have thought they'd be bound by law to publish their accounts." In other words, whilst lobbying is one of the functions they perform, their legal entity is a corporation and I'd have thought corporations would be bound to publish their accounts somewhere. These are simple issues that you are trying to cloud by misquoting me and avoiding the subject in hand (presumably) because you find the real answers inconvenient to your argument. Regarding your comment; "I did answer you but you obviously cant read. Maths to entertain you? Yes you do seem to entertain yourself!!" All I can say to that is that resorting to veiled insults & innuendo will never win an argument. All it will do is make you look foolish. | |||
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Yes, innuendo and BS is your main game. Your questions are rhetorical, you dont really want the answers... have fun entertaining yourself Steve. I'm out.... A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Matt So there you go with personal insults & innuendo in yet another feeble attempt to cloud the real issues at hand & YET AGAIN, you've failed to answer the simple questions I've asked, which incidentally aren't at all rhetorical, & you are now running for the hills rather than admit you're wrong or give me the answers to the questions I asked.  | |||
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Matt, You are unable to answer the questions, because you are in the same boat as everyone else as far as SCI is concerned. Everything is shrouded in secrecy. How hard is it for them to tell us where all the money is going? | |||
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Saeed How can I really help you in this? You take your advice from some outfitter who goes to SCI and never books a hunt. People have tried to explain to you how the money is spent - it is not a simple equation....ut every year you ignore these thing and come out with the same droll lines - that SCI does nothiiing. Like Steve - I dont think you really want any answers because it will mess with your story and entertainment. That is my assessment. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Matt You could start by answering the VERY simple question I've now asked several times and you keep dodging and just to remind you what it was, here it is again (for the 4th or 5th time of asking): Can you tell us how much total profit they made from the last convention & what they did with that profit please? If you can't tell us the 2013 figure, how about the 2012 or 2011 figure? Try to answer the question this time instead of resorting to stupid petty insults and innuendo please because as I've said, you're previous responses just make you look foolish.  | |||
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I beg your Honour, have mercy on me.  A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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So does that mean you can't (or perhaps won't?) answer the question? | |||
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So, apparently they're willing to pay for the social interaction; i.e., entertainment. Even though they may never have gotten a booking AT the convention, isn't it entirely possible that they got bookings as a RESULT of their social interactions at the convention? | |||
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Steve, He has not clue. For some SCI is like a religion or cult may be a better term. I personally have nothing against them, but start to get suspicious when there supporters react like Matt. DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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No-one is suggesting the Convention is wrong or should be banned. Just that the 'donation' scheme is wrong & should be banned. Getting back to Matt's inability or unwillingness to answer my question of " Can you tell us how much total profit they made from the last convention & what they did with that profit please?" I wonder if anyone else can answer it? It shouldn't after all be a secret............. should it?  | |||
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You could well be right there but if he doesn't know, he should say so & if he does know but is unwilling to say so, he should equally say so. Either way, he & the other supporters are unable to justify an unjustifiable 'donation' scheme. And I'm having no end of fun proving that FACT! | |||
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I realize that my post was way off topic from your question. SCI may be different, but at DSC the hunts tend to be close or over what you could buy the hunt for at the booth. Don't take the auction catalog pricing at face value. You aren't likely to get a great bargain so it often comes down to either supporting the club or supporting the outfitter. As stated in other posts the better deals are normally at local and smaller club events. I also am more likely (and have) bid on donated hunts at the local level. DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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First and foremost the auctions are FUNDRAISER, to help fund SCI and the efforts undertaken for conservation, hunter advocacy, litigation, humanitarian and education. Yes, there is an occasional bargain that can be found, more often at the local SCI fundraisers than at the Annual Convention. Please attend and enjoy all the Convention has to offer and when it comes to bidding on auctioned items please be as generous as your circumstances allow. Tim | |||
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For those of you that provided answers to my questions I thank you. For the other debate going on I appreciate your passion but not really what I was looking for. I'm still going to the show and may try my luck but overall I think I'll meet some great people and have a good time dreaming and maybe getting the hunt of a life time. After I do all the necessary research first. Thanks and happy new year! | |||
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indeed, you will have a good time- and with proper research i am betting you can save some money on a good hunt. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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