Got an email today on an upcoming buff hunt in Zim seems the fees (imposed by the govt?) are being raised. Doesn't seem to matter that our hunt was booked in January with a deposit paid at that time.

Trust the outfitter, am offered a chance to cancel. Just think it's bad business to change the price after the deposit is paid. The Zim govt is not a model for much of anything. Can now add this to the list.

H T

What fees? None of my guys have said anything about a recent increase. Not disputing what you said. Just curious.

Mark

Parks have upped what they are charging operators for quota, especially buffalo. So many operators are communicating this as a "surcharge" because they don't like it. For example, trophy fee = $3500 (old price) plus $2000 (Parks "Surcharge"). But the reality is, Parks reserves the right to change both quota and the cost of quota each year. Don't blame your outfitter too harshly, he is not making much at all on trophy fees. Operators make their money on daily rates.

I am also seeing increases in Zimbabwe over last years quotes, both daily rates and trophy fees. And we know the government increased the price of leases on hunting areas - see Chewore South.

Remember, it wasn't all that long ago that the actual Government trophy fees for Buffalo in Tanzania were $600, $750 and $900 respectively for your first, second and third Buffalo.

It is typical African thinking that the White hunter has an unlimited amount of money, and no price increase could ever stop him from hunting. Economics 101 was never offered in their schools.

Thank you Wendell! When last I hunted the Selous, those were the prices for each of my three Buff.

And we are also in agreement on the belief by africans, including many outfitters and PHs, that all American hunters are "rich". I have said this for at least a dozen years. It is not true and I fear that the rising prices enacted by african governments AND outfitters are killing the "golden goose" which is the American middle class safari hunter. Tanzania has already done and others are following in their footsteps. Mores the pity.

BTW, if an outfitter has a farm in RSA and homes in other countries, owns his own plane, boat and multiple 4x4 vehicles, has staff to mind his property, cook his families meals and transport his children, most middle class Americans would consider them to be rich.

AWA. the fools are bound and determined to kill the goose!

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Parks have upped what they are charging operators for quota, especially buffalo. So many operators are communicating this as a "surcharge" because they don't like it. For example, trophy fee = $3500 (old price) plus $2000 (Parks "Surcharge"). But the reality is, Parks reserves the right to change both quota and the cost of quota each year. Don't blame your outfitter too harshly, he is not making much at all on trophy fees. Operators make their money on daily rates.

Well, game departments have learnt a lesson.

In the past, the saw operators marked up trophy fees quite a bit, so they decided to get on the act.

Now everyone is getting greedy, which means some people are not going to go hunting, which means both the operators and the game departments will suffer.

Notice what Buzz posted about the Zimbabwe game department has done while auctioning Chete.

They want all elephant trophy fees up front - whether they are shot or not.

quote:

BTW, if an outfitter has a farm in RSA and homes in other countries, owns his own plane, boat and multiple 4x4 vehicles, has staff to mind his property, cook his families meals and transport his children, most middle class Americans would consider them to be rich.

Without question, I would consider that to be not only rich, but very rich.

I'm glad I got to hunt Tanzania and Zimbabwe when I did. I'm afraid I am priced out.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Now everyone is getting greedy, which means some people are not going to go hunting, which means both the operators and the game departments will suffer.

Exactly.

Safari hunting is a volume business, and volume will fall off as a result of this predatory pricing trend.

And with fewer hunters in the field, everything involved will fall off as well.

It is a well thought out ponzi scheme for the first three go rounds, like all ponzi schemes.

Raise the price 10%, and lose 10% or a few more clients.

Next year: to cover the drop in revenue, raise the fees 10% to make up for it. Lose 12-15% more of the clients.

Second year(third round) raise the cost 15% to cover the drop in revenue; and lose another 20-25% of the clients.

That will go along ways to eliminating people like me who consider DG hunting a once in a lifetime dream.

I noticed this in 2010 at SCI. My $2000 Buff Tag in Zim in 2008 had gone to $3500 in 2010. I have my dream hunt for Buffalo done, and the head and shoulder mount is hanging on a wall in my gunroom.

My second and third trips were to RSA for plains game, in 2010 and 2012. Every bit as enjoyable, after experiencing the pre-Uhuru era tent camping.

Those trophies are mounted and hanging on my walls as well.

I would like to make one more trip, for Leopard and Eland in 2014/15. RSA seems to have the best handle on the Law of Diminishing Returns.

sad to see this era begin...

To me it simply isn't worth the time and trouble anymore. You pay more money to the same circus masters and the same possibility of a truly crappy hunt.

No thanks.

Prices keep going up like they have been and they'll soon have all of the photo safaris development opportunities that their little hearts could desire.

HT

Thanks for the post and yes prices have gone up and coming from the first world it is hard to understand how when you have payed your deposit prices can be increased.

However think of it from the operators point of view- When we were charging us$3500 per buff we were making us$1500 each as Parks /council fees were us$2000. Now we are hit with an increase from Parks/council to us$4500/buff. As a result last year we had to ask clients if they were happy with the increase ( and if not they were given the option of cancelling with full refund)But bottom line we did all our buff hunts with ZERO profit and that was our bread and butter as such. This year our buff are us$5000 a mere $500 per buff for us split between council and us!

The bottom line is yes they are running the risk of

1/ POSSIBLY PRICING ZIM OUT THE MARKET
2/ REDUCING THE OPERATING QUALITY
3/ SEEING A DROP IN THE QUALITY/ QUANTITY OF GAME AS WE NO LONGER HAVE THE EXTRA CASH TO PLOW BACK INTO ANTI POACHING ETC- HENCE US HAVING DEVELOPED DAPU- AND HAVING TO ASK ASSISTANCE WHICH I DO NOT FIND EASY!

Having said that I have to say that the marketing for the next two season has been excellent and we have only 4 buff left for 2014-so maybe I am reading into things the wrong way with regards to pricing Zim out the market?

Well after my recent divorce I now know I will not be able to go on my dream safari, coulda got my big 5 for what it cost, but worth every penny:-)

Please keep posting your reports, the guys that can still afford to do it!!!!!

Cheers

Chris

Gentlemen
It's not just the "middle class America" getting priced out. If you have to buy your hard currency in ZAR like I do, first deal with the depreciation. Around 8 ZAR to the $ when I went with CMS in 2012 now around 10.30 ZAR to the $. Then add the increase in trophy fees. Then (if you are a bowhunter like me) add an increase in the bow permit from $400 to $1500 in a year. Result? No more going to Zim. These various increases way outstrip the ability of the average guy to earn and keep up.
I'll second Ovis... keep the hunt reports coming so we can get our fix that way!
JCHB

No matter whether you're talking about, fuel, food, taxes or anything else, nothing in any country ever gets cheaper & the rule of supply & demand with countries going off line (hunting wise) because of politics etc all combine to mean prices, esp Govt prices will always increase so you might as well get used to it because it (sadly) ain't gonna change any time soon.

In this particular case, I'd suggest consulting the safari contract to see what that says but it'll probably say something like the outfitter is not responsible for Government price increases etc.

If it's any consolation, & it probably won't be, not many people in the hunting industry get rich just from hunting & those with ultra bling kit such as their own aircraft etc either have it all on tick or have other/additional means of income that help finance these things.

Now if you'll excuse me, I must go & polish my fleet of Ferraris & my new executive jet!

It's not just Zim or Africa, look at here in the states. Sheep hunts are going from $15,000 to $20,000, tags for sheep goat and moose are around $2000. New Mexico's sheep tag is $3000. Montana's elk and deer combo tag kept going up over $1000 until people quit buying them, now the elk tag is $809 and a deer tag is $570. I will still take Africa, that's why I have started hunting for non-trophy animals. Save money on the DR and TF and no pac and dip, no shipping and no taxidermy.

quote:

Community Statistics

Government fees going up are one thing... but I dont know too many outfitters who got wealthy from hunting.

Hunting is A very good business, but it is also seasonal, in most cases it is about A 7 month season were you got to make enough to last 12 months. Any hobby these days is expensive hell try and take up serious offshore fishing! But then again We are in this business out of own choice so no complains from me. And there will always be good deals out there, I always say it is very easy to negotiate down with a client never up!! Good luck for the 2014 season guys.

zim government just taking lessons from obama & co

We have 3 groups of hunters. This is my perspective.

Group 1 - does not have any issues with money and continues to purchase 21 to 31 day safaris and not even thinking about the expense.

Group 2 - has X amount of disposable income each year and can pick and chooses where he wishes to go.

Group 3 - Has very limited disposable income and needs to save (one or more years) to go on a hunting trip. Also need to be choosy in where they go.

On our site we have members who fall into all three groups.

Now that i am retired, My income has been reduced some what and I try to pick a place to go each year weather hunting or with the wife on an extended vacation or tour. Not counting all the side trips we take and hobbies, fishing and sport we do.

I try to do my research and book my safaris about 1 to 2 years out. There by budgeting to have the best time i can have. After this year, i also will look at reducing my taxidermy as we have moved in to a smaller house with limited wall space.

Right now Africa is pushing the limits on what i am willing to pay to go on safari in Africa. However i am still looking at Australia and Namibia in the near future.

I thought something had happened that was different just recently. My contracts do not guarantee any government fees as all you can expect is that they will go up with no rhyme or reason and with no consideration for the safari operators business.

Mark

quote:

Right now Africa is pushing the limits on what i am willing to pay to go on safari in Africa. However i am still looking at Australia and Namibia in the near future.

Hmmm....I wonder where one would have to go for a Namibia hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Right now Africa is pushing the limits on what i am willing to pay to go on safari in Africa. However i am still looking at Australia and Namibia in the near future.

Hmmm....I wonder where one would have to go for a Namibia hunt?

My best guess would be Namibia.

I've shot two Cape Buffalo, in Zim, and with prices like I'm seeing I won't be shooting any more. The prices are just too high. Seeing prices of $17-18 K for a 10 day buffalo hunt just turns me off. Throw in airfare, tips etc. and you are well north of $20K.

I'm retired and I would be described as a middle class guy. Could I afford to spend $20K on a buffalo hunt - yes. Will I spend that much coin on such a hunt - NO. It just isn't worth it and I'm afraid I'm like a lot of other hunters. The value just isn't there.

Earlier this year I was looking for another DG hunt. I had about given up on Buffalo hunts due to the prices when an offer popped up on AR for a non exportable bull elephant hunt for $12K. I jumped on the hunt and had a great time. This was my 3rd non-exportable elephant bull. I'll take one of these any day over buffalo hunts at the current prices.

Of course, it will only be a matter of time before such elephant hunts are also priced out of the reach of us middle class guys. Looks like I'll be hunting plains game next year.

Sorry for the rant and thank you Buzz for your post re: gov't fees etc. A lot of people are quick to blame the outfitters when the real culprit is the African gov't.

As a matter of interest & going O/T for a moment, how does the cost of a buff hunt compare to the cost of a bear hunt please?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
As a matter of interest & going O/T for a moment, how does the cost of a buff hunt compare to the cost of a bear hunt please?

the same if we talk about BB in Alaska or Grizz in Canada ... and it s not getting cheaper also ... there is more antis against those hunts ...

African Game departments (Parks, in this case) do not understand simple economics. If an operator is adding $1500 to a trophy fee, it is part of his profit model. If you take that ability away from him, he will add it elsewhere, raising the cost of the hunt. The higher the cost goes, the fewer buyers you have. When supply exceeds demand, there will be a loss.

Unfortunately for us, it is not Parks that takes the loss. It is the operator. He pays the trophy fees if the animal is killed or not. So Parks never learns the lesson because they rarely feel the pain!

The end result is African greed is going to price most guys out of the market.

Botswana in 1999 - Jeff Rann was selling his Lion for $30,000 ... all in. And he was not inexpensive. We saw that hunt climb to $125,000 before the govt. shut down hunting there.

2000-2006 or so. A Buffalo hunt in Tanzania could be done for $10,000-$15,000. Now? $25,000 to $40,000. That is only 7 years and a 150% increase in cost!

Buffalo in Zim were $10,000 all in. Now? $17k-$20k.

There was a time I was always looking for my next Buffalo hunt. I am afraid those days have passed. I just can't justify $20k for another Buffalo.

I guess the good ol' days were not that long ago.

2014 I will be in Tanzania for 18 days but it will be a self drive unguided camping trip. I always wanted to hunt there but it got too expensive. I still want to see it so for 9k plus airfare we can go. 2015 we will be hunting in Burkina. Prices there are reasonable for now but that probably won't last forever. We try to take 2 long vacations per year but there is a limit on what we can and more importantly will pay.

My last hunt was in 2004 and at that time the finances ran out. A couple of years later when I had saved up for another plains game hunt the health ran out so to speak. While I don't hunt any more I would have liked to have made one more hunt. My first hunt was a package with Tony Da Costa who had a bad reputation on here I think but was reasonable for me. That year I took a package that had a Leopard,Kudu,Impala,Warthog,Duiker and Klipspringer. I got all but the duiker and the klipspringer. The total cost of the hunt was $5000 plus airfare which was under $2000 economy SAA. I made 8 safaris and the last I took an export Elephant with a few meat animals for camp and the PH. The trophy fee on the Elephant was $12000. Airfare was still only a little over $2000 economy SAA. I just received last week my next years Social Security amount and take home I will realize exactly $24 per month take home. Doesn't go very far towards a hunt or even expenses day to day. Gasoline varies by that monthly here. The stock market hasn't done very well with our marvelous leadership that we have so my 401 hasn't the legs it once had. Pretty well cut off at the knees so to speak. I could cut back on most everything and save for a hunt but have grave doubts I will be around long enough (I'm 79+) to realize it. They may not have killed the 'golden goose' but they have certainly plucked the dominecker chicken bare. I'm just glad I had a friend who decided to just hunt Africa and prompted me to say if he could do it so could I. Given todays prices and my finances at that time I would not be able to do it today. It is sad but true.

Steve:
Brn Bear hunts range from $8K to $20K depending on reputation of outfitter and facilities. I'd say the average is $16K.

Thanks guys. I've had a hankering for a big bear for about 25+ years so maybe I need to scratch that itch!

My prediction, we will all bitch and moan . . . and then pay the freight and make sacrifices in other areas.

quote:

My prediction, we will all bitch and moan . . . and then pay the freight and make sacrifices in other areas.

That's my plan.

I've got all the "things" I really need so now it's all about living life to its fullest.

Mike,

I think you are spot on. The folks that are willing to make a plan will still go. To me making a plan might include a less ambitious safari or a safari for non-trophy anaimls. Maybe a hunter just can't go as often but giving up safari as long as you have your health and the desire just doesn't seem right.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Mike,

I think you are spot on. The folks that are willing to make a plan will still go. To me making a plan might include a less ambitious safari or a safari for non-trophy anaimls. Maybe a hunter just can't go as often but giving up safari as long as you have your health and the desire just doesn't seem right.

Mark

True.

But there are a lot less individuals who fall into this category than those who wish to hunt and cannot afford these latest prices.

With what is currently being done in Zimbabwe, I can see a marked decline in the number of hunters going to hunt there.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:



Having said that I have to say that the marketing for the next two season has been excellent and we have only 4 buff left for 2014-so maybe I am reading into things the wrong way with regards to pricing Zim out the market?

Buzz, thanks for the insight. I feel that the next 2 years bookings for you are blokes like me who thought patten is. Shit if I dont get in now I will never be able to afford the hunt. Even if it means I have to go into debt to do it.

When I realised this a year ago I bboked in and did my hunt. I will be going to Nambibia after plains game in 2016, when I have financialy recovered from this years hunt. By the time I recover from that I will be retired and Africa, will unfortunately be off the cards for me.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Thanks guys. I've had a hankering for a big bear for about 25+ years so maybe I need to scratch that itch!

dont wait the price will never go down ... like buff ...

all the best.

Phil

Yes I agree with medved……… the price is not going to drop. Availability is playing in to this over time in addition to the costs of operation. British Columbia is getting hammered by GREEN anti-grizzly hunting forces. Currently you can only hunt grizzly/browns in BC. Yukon and Alaska with outfitters, as well as a handful of permits via hunter/trapper Inuit organizations in the NWT and Nunavut for barren ground grizzly. Other than that you are off to Russia and/or Eurasian brown bear.

Cheers!