There have been a few threads recently about advertising and product placement on TV hunting shows. While of course we wouldn't have these shows if sponsors didn't buy commercials to run on the shows, the stickers on gunstocks, logo shirts and hats are a bit much but tolerable.
So I just watched a show that happened to be about hunting coues deer in Mexico. Now I have to apologize to the advertisers because I DVR the shows and blast through the commercials but during this show, the guys started extolling the features of their F150 and optics during the hunt. Are hunting shows turning into infomercials?

Yes Sir they are.

That sums this thread up real quick!!!

you didnt buy any of those weiner extension pills did you?

Just DVR and fast forward. I would rather have the shows than not have the shows and the reality is that having the shows means having to endure the sponsors and other commercial aspects of the shows. Sponsors and commercialism are just part of sports today, whether it is baseball and football or fishing and hunting. Without the sponsors, there would be no televised sports.

Why is this topic soooo hard to understand? Name a form of entertainment that doesn't cost something. From your kids Friday night football game (have to buy a ticket) to a movie (have to buy a ticket) to television (either pay subscription or listen to commercials or both). Any and all forms of entertainment that we enjoy cost money to produce. No one is in a position to entertain the masses for free, at least not for any length of time.

Hunting shows are no different. The show producers must pay the network to place the show on the air. This is in addition to the production costs. How do you expect them to make any money if not for the sponsorships and commercials? The networks don't provide air time for free out of the goodness of their hearts so that you may be entertained. They have incredible equipment costs among others.

The fact is that the producers are doing these shows on the profit motive, as are the networks, as are the sponsors, etc. As much as you would like to believe they are producing these shows so that you can pass the time of day being entertained, it just isn't so.

Along the same line of thought, that being the profit motive, the sponsors expect a return on investment for providing money to the show producers. For come crazy reason, these companies would prefer you to know about their products in exchange for helping to put these shows on air. I've seen the Ford commercials mentioned here. It's a new approach but really just an attempt to make a more differentiated advertisement so that you'll remember it. Looks like it worked, eh?

Logic would suggest that the more adventurous and exotic the hunting show is, the more it costs to produce. African DG is going to cost more than a 1/2 hour of coyote calling with the latest version of the AR-15. Therefore the more money the sponsors have to put up in order for the show to make money for the producers. But that's not the sponsors problem. They still have to get that ROI on their advertising dollars or else it isn't a good business investment. Even though the sponsor puts up more money for quality shows like TAA, the time allotted to effectively get the message of their product out remains the same. Obviously, they are going to look for a way to maximize exposure to their product. After you get to a certain, content / commercial split, the only thing left is to work the message into the content. If they don't make a satisfactory ROI for their financial support, there is NO reason for them to continue sponsoring the show.

Some of the sponsors' efforts seem overboard like the stickers on stocks. But I just get a chuckle out it. Some folks seem to be offended. Why? Comments like, "I'll never buy that brand of ammo again because of that sticker on the gun stock" just don't make sense to me.

To each his own I suppose, but the result of no sponsorships would be to have no shows to enjoy.

The few times I have turned the OUTDOOR chanel on, what put me off seems to be their own adverts.

I might be looking at it at the wrong time, but it seems all I see are adverts for all sorts of shows, with that monotonous ONLY ON THE OUTDOOR CHANNEL!

I normally give up by then.

Don't like the advertising? Change the channel.

Naw...no need for that; just DVR and blast thru the junk.

Well we don't get ANY hunting on TV irrespective of the advertising ...

Contemplate that grasshopper ...

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Don't like the advertising? Change the channel.

True, and I bet that is precisely what the advertisers want for their money!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Just DVR and fast forward. I would rather have the shows than not have the shows and the reality is that having the shows means having to endure the sponsors and other commercial aspects of the shows. Sponsors and commercialism are just part of sports today, whether it is baseball and football or fishing and hunting. Without the sponsors, there would be no televised sports.

........not to mention how many of us work for free? Not me! If I'm taking the time and money to produce a show I'm going to make as much money doing it as is humanly possible!

Brett

Read my post. I'm not bitching about commercials. I'm bitching about the hunters doing infomercials during the hunt. Nobody expects a hunting show to be produced for free.
My point is that if this trend continues, the shows themselves won't be worth watching.
I can see it now. The hunter lines up on the shot and says" By the way, I could never make this shot if it weren't for my Swarovski scope on my Remington rifle shooting Hornady ammo. And if it weren't for my F150 powered by the Eco-Boost engine, I could never have gotten up this mountain".
Just spare me the commercials DURING the hunt!

Sort of like NACSAR and the interviews during the race when a car is retired from the field, but hell that is just free enterprise. Would you rather them just say this show is brought to by the Peoples Republic of ----------.

Why this comes up about once every 6 weeks I just don’t understand, and I guess I’ll jump out there and put a bullseye on my chest. College Game Day is brought to you by Home Depot every week, every bowl game has a corporate sponsor in the title, all the players have a NIKE or Adidas logo on their Jersey, there is a changing billboard behind the plate on every Major League baseball game, etc. I used to work for Under Armour, and they paid huge $ to get their gear and logo in any sports movie that came out, or shows like The Amazing Race on network TV. Would we all rather not see that, sure, but, that is not how the world works today. In TV, sponsorship is a must.

If you don’t want to watch commercials, DVR and fast forward. Now on that subject, sponsors know that people fast forward, so they want in-show promotion. Some require logo wear be worn, some require stickers on stocks, etc. So as a producer, a gun company comes to you and says “We will pay for a full sponsorship but we need you to put a sticker on your stock.” Truly, what would you do? Are you going to tell them to keep $50-100k because you don’t want to use their sticker? If you are going to turn them down, you better have deep pockets and be ready to foot the bill yourself. In my opinion, I would rather have a sticker on a gun stock than, saying, “I shot him with my X rifle, with X optics, and X ammo”. What good producers try to do is get the sponsor products in shows where they are applicable and show them as best we can without making it an infomercial. Does it really ruin the show if there is a sticker on a gun, or there is a close-up of a guy taking aim and the scope brand shows? I know if I were a sponsor, I would demand in show content of my product, or I wouldn’t write a check.

Again, there are subtle ways to get it in a show where it isn’t shoved down your throat, and there are bad ways as well. I have seen some prominent shows have a segment where the host has 10-12 products lying out on a table and he goes through and mentions every one. That is definitely taking it too far.

Often when this subject comes up, a few people will say they hate all the product stuff, but they would like to know more about the gun and loads being used, etc. How in the world does a show tell you more about their shooting setup and not talk about products? That is the same way with a magazine article. People want to know about a gun and load, but they don’t want product mentions???

I think Todd’s post is excellent about costs and $. I can tell you, there aren’t many people in outdoor TV getting rich. There are a few, but they are few and far between, and most are in the whitetail world (Lee & Tiff, Waddell, etc.). If you add up bare minimum costs to produce one episode, it is crazy, especially to a distant off destination like Africa or an adventure hunt in AK, Yukon, etc. You have airfare for 2-3 people, hunt cost (even if it is reduced), license costs, equipment cost to buy and maintain, and then the biggy of buying airtime. When you look at producing 26 episodes a year, that number gets pretty big really fast, and it takes a lot of sponsorship dollars just to break even, not to mention to make much at all. This is about the only segment of the TV world I know of that the shows have to pay to be on TV. Mainstream TV, athletics, etc. work by the networks paying the producer, school, league, etc. to air their show/event, and often foots the bill for production. That is the opposite with us. That is one thing that is funny to me when you see an outdoor TV guy get a huge ego. It’s a joke because he is still paying to be on TV…cracks me up.

I don’t hear a lot of complaining about buying a DVD and watching it. You paid $20-40 out of your pocket to watch it once or twice. You aren’t paying much to have outdoor TV per month if anything. DVDs may or may not have sponsor products in them? Some of the best marketing I have seen is Buzz having CMSAFARIS.COM on the back of his and clients’ shirts, or DSC having trackers wearing jumpsuits with their logo on the back. That is just smart marketing because it is big and visible and on screen a lot. To me, that takes absolutely nothing away from the hunting footage, and it must not to most here because everyone seems to rave about Buzz’s and Boddington’s DVDs (and I think they are great as well). But…Why do Hornady or TC stickers on a gun get griped about so much, but things like this don’t?

I don’t see any of this going away, so we as viewers are going to have to live with it or not watch. Lastly, I don’t know why all TV hosts or hunters have to get lumped together. I hear things like, “It is all about being on TV and stroking the host’s ego”, or “It’s al about making the host look good”, etc. In some cases, maybe that is true, but not all shows or hosts are like that. Some of us love what we do, feel very blessed to be able to make our living doing it, and we just want to put out a good production. Most of us could probably make more $ doing something else, but we do truly love what we do, but it isn’t all easy. Getting good footage with a hunter, PH, cameraman, trackers, etc. is not always a piece of cake. That is an entourage, and then getting the camera angle to line up with the shot, etc. can be tough sometimes. I have let some of the best trophies I have ever seen walk off because we couldn’t get them right on film, you also loose 15-30 minutes in the morning and evening because of light. Not asking for sympathy here, just trying to explain it isn’t all one big vacation where everyone is getting rich. One thing is for sure, when you do get a good hunt sequence to come together on film, it is incredibly satisfying because it doesn’t happen every day.

I will get off my soapbox now…I am ready to get hammered! Have at me .

You could what I do and just don't watch TV at all. (Well, except for Packer games. But the commercials there are so you can up and pee and get another beer.) Books don't have commercials and product placement is generally minimal.

Tim,
I am not complaining about product placement or commercials!!!!!!!!!!!
I've now stated that 3 times in this thread. Everyone knows that nothing gets on TV for free. My point was I don't want to see what happened in this particular show become the norm where the hunters were doing product promotion DURING the hunt. Have at the stickers on the rifle stocks, mention that XYZ ammo was used on the hunt but don't for God's sake promote it in the middle of a stalk or you will lose viewership at least for this hombre.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
There are a few, but they are few and far between, and most are in the whitetail world (Lee & Tiff, Waddell, etc.).

That's the part I just do not get. I like to whitetail hunt as much as the next guy but the whitetail hunting shows are enough to gag . . . well some of the out of shape hunters on television. I cannot for the life of me see how all the deer hunting drivel on television makes it. You could watch 24 hours continuously of deer hunting, whitetail bow hunting, Realtree infomercials, backslapping Bubbas, etc. How they attract sponsor dollars is beyond me. Some of it literally comes across as Bevis and Butthead with a video camera on a deer hunt. I know, I know, if you don't like it, you don't have to watch it. I don't. I just wonder how the ratings allow such shows to continue to be produced.

I, for one, did not know that airtime for outdoor shows was purchased like an infomercial. That does explain a few things. I am curious how this came to be the case. Why is this part of the entertainment industry so different?
I understand the need for promotion. It is, after all, called "commercial" TV. I find myself using the DVR and skipping commercials simply because they are so frequent and so long. When the breaks weren't like four minutes long, I generally would watch them. It seems that if you subtract commercial breaks and intros, there is about ten minutes left in a half hour program. We are left with a few final approaches and kill shots, with very little imparted about the area, techniques, or the whole safari experience.
In my fantasy world, it would be a one hour format in a somewhat more documentary style. It seems that even the History Channel can't show documentaries anymore.
You gotta eat and I gotta eat.

Blacktailer - I wasn't picking on you, and I agree with you.

Mike,

I like to whitetail hunt some, but would much rather do other things, but the sad truth is 80-90% of the hunting public hunts whitetail and most that's about it for big game. It totally drives the outdoor market from guns, to bows, to ammo, to optics, clothing, etc. Then I guess you have to look at the demographics in total, and I don't understand it either, but they like all the foolishness with horsing around being 2/3's of the show, etc. I think it paints all of us in the outdoor TV realm badly, but they are making the big bucks. If a million deer hunters watch you every week, you can pick your sponsors, get other endorsements, etc. and make a bunch of money. Whitetail is mainstream - Africa and big adventure hunts are considered more niche.

I don't totally understand it all either, but I think the folks here are just a bit more
discriminating than the average outdoor TV viewer (and that is a compliment)- so we have different views than the huge masses of whitetail only hunters.

That being said, I want to support all hunters, but I don't claim to understand them...

Marty- There are 22 minutes of airtime that we get. 8 minutes of commercials. I think we are allowed a 30 second intro, and 1 minute of billboards, segment intros, etc. So that leaves about 20-21 minutes of shows. Some folks put more "commercials" inside the shows, which cuts that down even more. I wold love to be able to do 1 hour shows as well. You could see a lot more of the overall experience and it would be a better production.

I can't remember the company but one of the big companies like midway or cabelas or something like that called my dad's friend and asked him if he would come near buying something if it had Waddells name on it or bone collector or whatever. He told them he would come less near buying anything with his name on it.

I can tell you it can be the neatest gadget in the world and I wouldn't buy it if it said bone collector even if they offered to give it to me.

Tim:

Thanks for explaining all of this. I know how the magazine business works (and I am highly critical of it) but I didn't know much about the video side of things. So thanks.

You don't have to be much a business man to be a writer. But apparently you do to put together a show; I have a bit more respect for you and others now that I understand that.

That doesn't mean I will watch your shows if it is all all about you pulling the trigger, but thanks for taking time to explain things.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
I can't remember the company but one of the big companies like midway or cabelas or something like that called my dad's friend and asked him if he would come near buying something if it had Waddells name on it or bone collector or whatever. He told them he would come less near buying anything with his name on it.

I can tell you it can be the neatest gadget in the world and I wouldn't buy it if it said bone collector even if they offered to give it to me.

Jarrod:

I completely agree. I remember being at a writer's hunt when Bushnell introduced some Chuck Adams branded stuff. Why in the world anyone would buy anything with Waddell or Adams or anyone else's name on it is completely baffling to me.

I enjoy watching some of the whitetail shows, but I do not buy ANY product because it is endorsed or shown on TV. I buy what I need or what I want based on whether it suits me or because I just like it.
As a business man I want to make as much as I can off of every $ I spend, but I get the point that enough is enough on the advertising.
They way to handle it is to quit watching the shows or contact them & spill your guts.
Remember it did't take but a hand full of people to get Wild World Of Sports to drop hunting from it's programming. (poor choice if you ask me) But sponsors apparently listen.
Thanks Tim for your insight into this.

GUNS HAVE ONLY 2 ENEMIES-RUST & POLITICIANS

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
There are a few, but they are few and far between, and most are in the whitetail world (Lee & Tiff, Waddell, etc.).

That's the part I just do not get. I like to whitetail hunt as much as the next guy but the whitetail hunting shows are enough to gag . . . well some of the out of shape hunters on television. I cannot for the life of me see how all the deer hunting drivel on television makes it. You could watch 24 hours continuously of deer hunting, whitetail bow hunting, Realtree infomercials, backslapping Bubbas, etc. How they attract sponsor dollars is beyond me. Some of it literally comes across as Bevis and Butthead with a video camera on a deer hunt. I know, I know, if you don't like it, you don't have to watch it. I don't. I just wonder how the ratings allow such shows to continue to be produced.

That's Why I won't watch them. I just don't see the behavior shown on most of the whitetail shows as leaving a good imagine of a sportsman to John Q. Public.

The Bevis and Butthead comparison is good. I would keep a piece of equipment with Waddell and some of the other "clowns" names on it.

I think that it would have to be a lot cheaper to make a tree stand bow hunt for a whitetail deer than it is for say a TAA,but personnally if all that can be put on is the quality of shows of most seen on some of those whitetail deal, I'd rather have no show,

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
Blacktailer - I wasn't picking on you, and I agree with you.

Mike,

I like to whitetail hunt some, but would much rather do other things, but the sad truth is 80-90% of the hunting public hunts whitetail and most that's about it for big game. It totally drives the outdoor market from guns, to bows, to ammo, to optics, clothing, etc. Then I guess you have to look at the demographics in total, and I don't understand it either, but they like all the foolishness with horsing around being 2/3's of the show, etc. I think it paints all of us in the outdoor TV realm badly, but they are making the big bucks. If a million deer hunters watch you every week, you can pick your sponsors, get other endorsements, etc. and make a bunch of money. Whitetail is mainstream - Africa and big adventure hunts are considered more niche.

I don't totally understand it all either, but I think the folks here are just a bit more
discriminating than the average outdoor TV viewer (and that is a compliment)- so we have different views than the huge masses of whitetail only hunters.

That being said, I want to support all hunters, but I don't claim to understand them...

Marty- There are 22 minutes of airtime that we get. 8 minutes of commercials. I think we are allowed a 30 second intro, and 1 minute of billboards, segment intros, etc. So that leaves about 20-21 minutes of shows. Some folks put more "commercials" inside the shows, which cuts that down even more. I wold love to be able to do 1 hour shows as well. You could see a lot more of the overall experience and it would be a better production.

wow, less than a 3:1 ratio of program to BULLSHIT. no wonder i don't watch Bevis and Butthead shoot whitetail # 2,158 from a treestand or call in turkey #5,209. DVD'S are a wonderful alternative to seeing the SAME OLD SHIT FOR THE 50TH TIME. i would rather watch the same DVD 25 times than watch a 25 different whitetails or turkeys shot.

Concerning the amount of Whitetail shows vs adventure hunts, I think we here on the AR Forum forget how fortunate many of us are in our ability to hunt Africa and other far off and exotic places. The vast majority of people interested in hunting can't afford a Safari. Many would prefer to watch a show about something they are capable of doing instead of just dreaming about.

Before this recent explosion in the number of hunting shows, fishing shows were a dime a dozen. Remember those old shows with guys like Jimmy Houston or Bill Dance? Those shows were always around on Sundays because they appealed to the masses. They appealed to the masses because everyone could do it. There was often some humor involved and it just didn't offend me. I guess I not that refined!

My opinion is it's the same with the Whitetail shows of today. There seems to be an attitude on AR that only the abject difficult, most pure form of hunting is acceptable. If you don't suffer physical and mental hardship in your quest, then you just haven't really hunted at all! No tree stands, no high fence, etc, etc. I'm sorry but I don't buy that.

I like a difficult Elk hunt in the mountains. I like an exciting DG hunt in Africa. But I also very much enjoy taking my kids out to the Whitetail lease, cooking some burgers in camp, sleeping in the RV, and enjoying a relaxing time sitting in a deer stand with my sons. It doesn't always have to be the "go to the ends of the earth, pay whatever price, balls to the wall" type of hunt to make it worth my while. From the number of Whitetail hunts on TV that seem to have a pretty steady following, something tells me I'm not alone. I enjoy watching all the different hunting shows not because I care about a physically fit or unfit hunter, what he or she is wearing, what equipment they are using, etc. I enjoy watching the activity of hunting for the sake of the activity itself, in all it's forms. I enjoy participating in hunting in all it's forms even more.

But the shows are a good way to pass down time in between hunts in my opinion. And it's only my opinion. What makes the shows possible is sponsorship. Without it, they go away. So I don't bitch about it. It comes with the territory. And every once in awhile, I'm introduced to a new product that I didn't know about, that I end up purchasing and using. An example that comes to mind is the Trijicon line of scopes that I learned about by watching Tracks Across Africa. It's pretty much the only scope I'll purchase at this time. Without those commercials, I probably would have never given them a second thought. I'm sure glad I didn't take the attitude "I'll NEVER use that product because I saw an add where they were promoting it. The nerve!".

Glad I don't have a TV that's connected to Cable.

Actually, I probably would have to turn my TV on first. Since its been about a month since I did that last, that would be a good start.

I realize that programming is largely paid for by advertisements. With non-outdoor programming, you get your advertisements neatly sorted into commercial breaks. The problem with outdoor programs, is that the program is the advertisement. It's horrible. I hate hunting TV.

The shows the wife and I watch, we truly enjoy. Even some of the "Bubba" shows are interesting and allow us to judge antlers and pick shot placement. We understand nothing is free and tolerate the commercials (or fast forward through them). We like the conservation info that SCI, DSC and others throw in. Heck, even some of the commericals have prompted us to buy products and I hope that helps the show. (Red Oxx for example)

We do agree, the non stop plugging of sponsors by the hunter can be annoying and very distracting from the actual show. Result, we stop watching that show when it becomes a non stop infomercial.

We would like to see some info on the actual firearm being used when someone is using a personal gun. We see some very interesting rifles (especially doubles) on shows and would like to hear a little about it. However, we have zero interest in the mass produced, synthetic stocked, on sale at every Wal-Pro-Sports-Mountain-Shop.

By the way, if anyone wants to give us a hunt we'll gladly wear NASCAR style coveralls full of sponsors patches. Since shape is an issue for some, the wife is in great shape and I am in above average shape.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I like a difficult Elk hunt in the mountains. I like an exciting DG hunt in Africa. But I also very much enjoy taking my kids out to the Whitetail lease, cooking some burgers in camp, sleeping in the RV, and enjoying a relaxing time sitting in a deer stand with my sons. It doesn't always have to be the "go to the ends of the earth, pay whatever price, balls to the wall" type of hunt to make it worth my while. From the number of Whitetail hunts on TV that seem to have a pretty steady following, something tells me I'm not alone. I enjoy watching all the different hunting shows not because I care about a physically fit or unfit hunter, what he or she is wearing, what equipment they are using, etc. I enjoy watching the activity of hunting for the sake of the activity itself, in all it's forms. I enjoy participating in hunting in all it's forms even more.

With all due respect Todd, I think in part you may have missed the point. No one is bashing deer hunting, no one is bashing a fellow taking his kids deer hunting, no one is suggesting that hunters have to scale Everest to make a show worth watching (although that would make for a much more interesting show than watching Bubba Wilson whack a whitetail in a food plot with a muzzleloader), the point was that many of the deer hunting shows are carbon copies of one another. If folks enjoy them, more power to them. I was simply noting that insofar as I am concerned, I do not see or understand the appeal. To watch the fifteenth show of the day where someone is sitting in a tree stand with a bow and then excitedly whispers to the cameraman, "There's a big buck, there's a big buck!" before he draws and whacks it, that is not MY cup of tea or how I choose to spend MY time. Worse yet, if afterwards he is backslapping, high fiving and doing a jig over the dead deer. That just does not appeal to me. If it appeals to you, watch it. Apparently it appeals to a lot of people based on the number of shows and basic principles of supply and demand. But my comments, and I think those of others, were not and certainly were not intended to be an indictment of deer hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
There have been a few threads recently about advertising and product placement on TV hunting shows. While of course we wouldn't have these shows if sponsors didn't buy commercials to run on the shows, the stickers on gunstocks, logo shirts and hats are a bit much but tolerable.
So I just watched a show that happened to be about hunting coues deer in Mexico. Now I have to apologize to the advertisers because I DVR the shows and blast through the commercials but during this show, the guys started extolling the features of their F150 and optics during the hunt. Are hunting shows turning into infomercials?

+1.

I just can't believe how fast this thread downloadedcan to my new motorola phone. The screen is so big I can read it across the room.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I like a difficult Elk hunt in the mountains. I like an exciting DG hunt in Africa. But I also very much enjoy taking my kids out to the Whitetail lease, cooking some burgers in camp, sleeping in the RV, and enjoying a relaxing time sitting in a deer stand with my sons. It doesn't always have to be the "go to the ends of the earth, pay whatever price, balls to the wall" type of hunt to make it worth my while. From the number of Whitetail hunts on TV that seem to have a pretty steady following, something tells me I'm not alone. I enjoy watching all the different hunting shows not because I care about a physically fit or unfit hunter, what he or she is wearing, what equipment they are using, etc. I enjoy watching the activity of hunting for the sake of the activity itself, in all it's forms. I enjoy participating in hunting in all it's forms even more.

With all due respect Todd, I think in part you may have missed the point. No one is bashing deer hunting, no one is bashing a fellow taking his kids deer hunting, no one is suggesting that hunters have to scale Everest to make a show worth watching (although that would make for a much more interesting show than watching Bubba Wilson whack a whitetail in a food plot with a muzzleloader), the point was that many of the deer hunting shows are carbon copies of one another. If folks enjoy them, more power to them. I was simply noting that insofar as I am concerned, I do not see or understand the appeal. To watch the fifteenth show of the day where someone is sitting in a tree stand with a bow and then excitedly whispers to the cameraman, "There's a big buck, there's a big buck!" before he draws and whacks it, that is not MY cup of tea or how I choose to spend MY time. Worse yet, if afterwards he is backslapping, high fiving and doing a jig over the dead deer. That just does not appeal to me. If it appeals to you, watch it. Apparently it appeals to a lot of people based on the number of shows and basic principles of supply and demand. But my comments, and I think those of others, were not and certainly were not intended to be an indictment of deer hunting.

Exactly my thoughts. I love to deer hunt, but the good deer hunting shows are few and far between. On Your Own Adventures is a good one, but then again, they don't do much out of a tree stand.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Are hunting shows turning into infomercials?

Yes, its all about the mighty dollar.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I like a difficult Elk hunt in the mountains. I like an exciting DG hunt in Africa. But I also very much enjoy taking my kids out to the Whitetail lease, cooking some burgers in camp, sleeping in the RV, and enjoying a relaxing time sitting in a deer stand with my sons. It doesn't always have to be the "go to the ends of the earth, pay whatever price, balls to the wall" type of hunt to make it worth my while. From the number of Whitetail hunts on TV that seem to have a pretty steady following, something tells me I'm not alone. I enjoy watching all the different hunting shows not because I care about a physically fit or unfit hunter, what he or she is wearing, what equipment they are using, etc. I enjoy watching the activity of hunting for the sake of the activity itself, in all it's forms. I enjoy participating in hunting in all it's forms even more.

With all due respect Todd, I think in part you may have missed the point. No one is bashing deer hunting, no one is bashing a fellow taking his kids deer hunting, no one is suggesting that hunters have to scale Everest to make a show worth watching (although that would make for a much more interesting show than watching Bubba Wilson whack a whitetail in a food plot with a muzzleloader), the point was that many of the deer hunting shows are carbon copies of one another. If folks enjoy them, more power to them. I was simply noting that insofar as I am concerned, I do not see or understand the appeal. To watch the fifteenth show of the day where someone is sitting in a tree stand with a bow and then excitedly whispers to the cameraman, "There's a big buck, there's a big buck!" before he draws and whacks it, that is not MY cup of tea or how I choose to spend MY time. Worse yet, if afterwards he is backslapping, high fiving and doing a jig over the dead deer. That just does not appeal to me. If it appeals to you, watch it. Apparently it appeals to a lot of people based on the number of shows and basic principles of supply and demand. But my comments, and I think those of others, were not and certainly were not intended to be an indictment of deer hunting.

Exactly my thoughts. I love to deer hunt, but the good deer hunting shows are few and far between. On Your Own Adventures is a good one, but then again, they don't do much out of a tree stand.

AZW, this really shows the difference in opinions concerning a persons likes and dislikes and how we interpret the same content differently. And listen, those differences are OK. My tastes are no better or worse than yours. On You Own Adventures is the one show I will NOT watch because to my way of thinking, he puts down anyone who uses a guide! It may not be what he is trying to portray, but it goes exactly to the point I was trying to make in my first post. "If you don't struggle an epic battle to harvest your game, you aren't "The Real American Hunter"". That is his tag line, isn't it? "The Real American Hunter"! "All others need not apply"! (I added that last part! ) It's a put down in my opinion. I hunt Elk in Colorado own my own, but I used a guide once. Hired horses to help pack out an animal twice. I hunt Deer on my own. I use a guide on adventure hunts. I hunt Pronghorn on my own in Wyoming. I don't feel that I'm doing anything more or less pure when I hunt on my own or use a guide. I would expect to see that guy Occupying Wall Street as he is the 99%, the Real Hunter, only the rich guys can hire a guide. Give me a break! Talk about a lack of hunting content though, I'll bet you would have to look pretty hard to find more than about 2 or 3 minutes per show of "On Your Own Adventures" to find any real hunting content. It's mostly just the guy standing around telling you why his method is better than yours, or the same footage shown over and over 3 or 4 times as the show returns from commercial each time!

Now if he really isn't putting down the guy who hires a guide from time to time and is really trying to portray that "anyone can come out here and do this", I think the Eastman family does a better job with that message. Of course, their show is an informercial for their membership club and magazine that gives you all the data you need to succeed in drawing and hunting the West. But there you go, right back into the commercial as part of the hunting content. Again, it doesn't bother me as I can see where if a guy joined their club and followed their advice, you could probably hunt some prime areas every year, and do so less expensively on your own. Their show is one of my favorites.

Mike, I understand what you are saying. I was not making my statement in response to you specifically, but more in a general manner. There is an undercurrent on this forum to promote hunting activities only in the most pure form, and to put down anyone who does it differently. I know you were not bashing deer hunting and again, my remark was not aimed at you, but I have seen others on this forum, many, many times state: "That's not hunting". To me, that attitude is getting old. I was merely trying to point out that some folks, like myself, enjoy hunting in all it's forms, as long as it's legal. I don't see the need to put others down because they enjoy hunting differently than the next guy.

About the backslapping on the Whitetail Bow shows. Yeah, that's a hard one. I don't know why, but Leopard, Elephant, Buffalo, man do I like to hunt them. But for some reason, knocking down a big ole buck that I've singled out, maybe hunted for a couple of years, and finally outsmarted and put on the ground, turns my insides into mush. I've shot a big Whitetail or two out of a tree stand with a bow and the feeling of excitement and really more than anything else, surprise that I actually pulled it off, can be overwhelming. I think that is the reaction you are seeing there. I've experienced it, but I haven't experienced it hunting any other animal, nor even hunting Whitetail with rifle. To someone who hasn't stuck a deer with an arrow, a non-hunter, or an Anti, I can certainly see where that reaction seems disrespectful to the animal. I don't mind the reaction on camera if it is genuine. If the guy is a clown about it, yep, it's pretty distasteful. Ditto for the obligatory "speaking over the dead animal". I much prefer the hunter to be respectful of his/her bounty.

Would I rather watch TAA instead of Lee & Tiffany? You bet. But the facts are that shows like TAA, UWS, Dangerous Game, are few and far between. The other shows abound. I don't watch that much TV but I prefer to watch hunting shows or a movie instead of the endless number of "Reality TV Shows" out there today.

But Mike, back to your point about not understanding the number of Whitetail shows that survive and thrive on the networks today, I stand by my statement in that the majority of people interested in Big Game hunting in the US are deer hunters. It's a numbers game. It is the niche of our sport that is relatively affordable to the masses. But let's face it, most everyday Joe-the-Deer-Hunter isn't able to hunt on the kind of properties you see on the better shows where they regularly kill 170"+ deer. Most go home with 1 1/2 year old basket racked deer. I think the appeal of the shows is a chance for the everyman to dream about taking that buck of a lifetime. I do agree wholeheartedly that some of the Whitetail shows are pure drivel, and I don't care to watch them either.

Back to my previous post again, we on this forum often forget that the vast majority of hunters will never afford a Safari, even once. We are very fortunate to be able to do so and I am thankful for that everyday. If my ability to hunt overseas ended tomorrow, I would still hunt Whitetail. I guess that's why I still watch those shows.

Todd:

Interesting the way you perceive "On Your Own."

I always thought his message was, "Hey, you don't need a guide to hunt..."

Almost every show on TV profiles guided hunts,so I think he is addressing a void in the programming. I rarely hunt without a guide nowadays, but I have a huge bunch of respect for those that are successful without one. The guy who did the DIY goat on another thread shot a huge billy on his own - that is quite an accomplishment.

I have seen Eastman's show a few times and agree that it is good.

I don't need constant shooting on a show, but I realize I am different. I would rather see the hunt unfold the way it happened, and if the hunter strikes out, oh well. That's hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Todd:

Interesting the way you perceive "On Your Own."

I always thought his message was, "Hey, you don't need a guide to hunt..."

Almost every show on TV profiles guided hunts,so I think he is addressing a void in the programming. I rarely hunt without a guide nowadays, but I have a huge bunch of respect for those that are successful without one. The guy who did the DIY goat on another thread shot a huge billy on his own - that is quite an accomplishment.

I have seen Eastman's show a few times and agree that it is good.

I don't need constant shooting on a show, but I realize I am different. I would rather see the hunt unfold the way it happened, and if the hunter strikes out, oh well. That's hunting.

I agree. The show doesn't have to take an animal to be enjoyable.

It really is strange how we perceive the same things differently, eh?

I much prefer the hunter to be respectful of his/her bounty.

ABSOLUTELY!!

Tim
Thanks for picking up the ball for me on this. My legs were getting tired!!!

I never watched a hunting show.All these years of commercial junk has turned me off of cinema,music and television.I don`t even own a TV.I am hopefull and convinced that there is good stuff out there but it is all hidden amongst the garbage.IMO there should be advertisement but it should be done before the show or hidden within.