quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
If you knew this going into the marriage than you only have yourself to blame. If you do not trust her alone than get proof of your suspicions or save the money and just get a divorce. Being married to someone you do not trust is not a marriage. Safaris are cheap compared to divorce. You will enjoy it more without her with that attitude she has. Have a hunt with a good friend and enjoy it more. You can send her on a spa vacation of her own while you have your trip.

Who the fuck are you to question another persons partner?

The Zim operator has screwed up and has no right to sell this safari if he cannot commit to the contractual conditions.

Bit like booking Mauritius and ending up in Blackpool.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
fairgame

"that the goal posts have been moved "

and I said

do animals sit around ?


The reference to "working with Children and animals" is a common saying in films / TV
as neither of them - children or animals - will do what you want when you want !!!

.

My American is a bit rusty but I speak English well.

I am the luckiest guy on the planet! My darling wife has spent MANY MONTHS in camp with me, not only in Africa, but in Alaska, Mongolia, Australia.............. +. Hell, when it comes down to it, I AM THE SISSY, she is tougher than me, especially in Alaska! I have seen her spend 10 days in tented camps in Alaska with me, no bath, no shower, snow storms, rain storms, wind storms, sand storms, hail storms, and every other kind of F**K**G storm you can think of, and cold to boot, and she toughs it out right to the end! I'm the one bitching and crying the blues.... She says shut up and toughen up! LOL

We have been in make shift fly camps in Africa.... NO TENT at all! Sleep out on a cot! She has spent entire nights with me in leopard blinds, lion blinds and so forth.

And currently right now she is in the process of designing a "Tented Safari Camp" right here at home, and she plans to begin construction after we return from South Africa and Zimbabwe this coming August, so it will be ready for this fall and winter!!!!! And, It was her idea!

No, I reckon mine is a keeper!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Chaps,

You are missing the point. A member has booked a hunt under specific conditions. The operator who accepts a deposit and then change the goal posts is questionable.

Sounds like a money back scenario to me.

Agreed. Plus this is coming from a well-respected PH.

Never have I not given what I have promised

Well there was that "tender" :: cough:: Roast in the hairnet.

A leopard hunt is a tough hunt to start with for a non hunting wife. My wife has gone with me 9 times and she disliked the cat hunts because they are long days and nights and much time driving checking baits. Changing camps can be good or bad. I was shifted twice and since we didn't know better went along without complaining and everything worked out. Remember the PH wants you happy for tips and the trophy fees are vital. Being flexible is a real asset when in Africa. Good luck! You are between a rock and a hard spot. The tent issue can be very real if your wife has any fears about the wildlife. My wife was very uncomfortable when elephants tiptoed around our tent. I understood and tried to make her feel more secure but when you are hunting and animals appear near camp she will be stressed. The suggestions to get a new wife are idiotic!

Take me!!!!

Best regards, D. Nelson

quote:

Originally posted by D. Nelson:
Take me!!!!

Best regards, D. Nelson

Don't do it. She'll shoot your Leopard.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Chaps,

You are missing the point. A member has booked a hunt under specific conditions. The operator who accepts a deposit and then change the goal posts is questionable.

Sounds like a money back scenario to me.

Agreed. Plus this is coming from a well-respected PH.

Never have I not given what I have promised

Well there was that "tender" :: cough:: Roast in the hairnet.

And I thought you Alaskans were tough?

However mate the ultimate promise was a big old Kafue Lion. The fact we shot it during breakfast was quite extraordinary. Dunno why but I think about it everyday?

My point is that you trusted in me and paid your hard earned cash over a hand shake. I can safely say that I never diverged from your wants or conditions.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Chaps,

You are missing the point. A member has booked a hunt under specific conditions. The operator who accepts a deposit and then change the goal posts is questionable.

Sounds like a money back scenario to me.

Agreed. Plus this is coming from a well-respected PH.

Never have I not given what I have promised

Well there was that "tender" :: cough:: Roast in the hairnet.

And I thought you Alaskans were tough?

That meat was and worth every laugh watching you try and cut it.

We still speak often of the Lion morning. The late afternoon onward is a bit foggy in my memory for some reason.

Take your girlfriend.

Sorry none of that is helpful. Give the outfitter a chance to make it right and get the full new info and photos and see if it stacks up.

I feel for you! and agree with Andrew, this shit is getting too common!

But, look on the bright side... My wife took the leopard quota for herself, at Sango! Thierry and her plotted... Good thing I get to go to CAR too

quote:

Originally posted by poprivit:
I've just had a major blow-up of my ZA leopard hunt scheduled for June 29-July 14 2013. My wife is going for the first time, and one requirement was a nice lodge to hunt out of. She had many reservations, mostly due to the fact that my last safaris were spent in a tent (which was great), and her idea of roughing it is unheated bath towels in a 5-star New York hotel.

She definitely said "lodge". I didn't hear the word "tent" at all.

Ok, yesterday I got an email saying the leopard I want is somewhere else, so we have to go "somewhere else" (not named) and stay in a tent! "Luxury tent" at that. Still pay the per diem that we would spend at the lodge.

Wife said "have a good time by yourself". Did I mention we have been married less that 2 years?

So far, I've bought the airline tickets to Joburg, and sent a healthy deposit to the PH. Spent about $10k in the process.

Opinions?

Should I go by myself? Leave the wife home for half a month? Not a good idea.

Cancel everything?

Try for a different hunt with a different PH on the same dates? Would that be possible?

Or...?

If your contract said luxury lodge, make them keep to it or ask for ALL of your money back

Crikey... at what stage did the accommodation become the most important aspect of a hunting trip? I'd be more concerned about the details of the new hunt location/permit. It could be a better hunt prospect than the one originally offered.

geez - asking this bunch of rednecked rowdys about marital advice is like asking obama to watch out after your checkbook

You didn't cover this in the prenup?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:


Ok she will not have a masai guarding the tent but tent vs lodge I take the tent everyday of the week.

Very nice but not what they will get. At the end of the day the operator sold the hunter a safari with specific conditions which he has been paid for and I for one find it unacceptable that the goal posts have been moved after deposits have been received.

Ask for your money back.

I agree, you contracted a specific hunt. It can not now be delivered. You should be entitled to a refund and can now rebook the hunt that will make you and your wife happy.

Kind of a tough spot to be in. I've been married to the same woman since 1985, and she isn't a hunter; also not much for roughing it. But I'll offer an opinion since you asked.

Firstly, as others have mentioned, I'd be concerned about the quality of the hunt in the new "somewhere else (not named)" area. I'd want full details as to why the change of venue, just to make sure that end of the deal is on the up and up. Once I was satisfied with the operator's answers, then I'd address the wife issue.

And on the wife issue, you know you are a hunter. The two of you are new to this marriage so there are many things to hammer out, especially in the beginning. I'd say that both of you need to realize what each other's needs and wants are. She needs to know you are not likely to be happy for the long term if she restricts your hunting activities. Might as well settle that as soon as possible, one way or the other. My wife and I did! Just a philosophical point here, I live my life doing what I want to do and my wife does the same. We've never told the other that a particular activity, hunt, trip, purchase of a car, etc. is approved or forbidden. As a result we find that we are together because of mutual respect and true desire to be together for the individuals that we are instead of behaviors or actions that were coerced or restricted by the other. As a result, we act responsibly by not violating that trust and live together without resentment.

There are many options for the both of you that should serve your collective interests. Starting with the fact that you offered to take her along to share the experience. That shows you had her interests at heart. If she doesn't realize that, you may have additional problems to settle. The way we handled things is that my wife values a nice big house, much larger than we'll ever need. She likes to decorate. In exchange for providing her with those things, I get to hunt and buy expensive rifles to the point my income allows while still maintaining funds for emergencies, contingencies, and retirement. We don't keep tabs dollar for dollar.

So, I'd say that if she doesn't want to go because of the tents, but you determine the hunt is on the up and up, both of you should realize you made the offer to include her and it was her decision to stay home. Again, unless you are willing to curtail your hunting activities for the rest of your life, the both of you need to become comfortable with her staying home for 2 weeks or more when you pursue your hunting activities. I wouldn't worry about that. Hell, if it IS an issue and the two of you DO keep tabs, send her with some of her girlfriends on a trip for two weeks to even things out. I've done that many times for my wife. My wife has gone to many places I don't have much desire to go to because there isn't any hunting involved. She's been all over Europe without me as well as Japan, and a couple of trips to Hawaii. Don't get me wrong, I like Hawaii but when I was still flying for the airlines, I've just been there so many times that I got burned out on it.

All that is a long and round about way of saying that I'd go on the leopard hunt, as long as the hunt turns out to be on the up and up, and let your wife determine whether or not she wants to tag along. If she stays behind and you go, you'll probably want to do something nice for her in exchange. That way, you'll not resent her for forcing you to cancel the hunt, and she'll not resent you for having a vacation without an opportunity to get away from things for awhile as well.

Good luck ... on all of it!

The most important aspect for a successful leopard hunt is the area followed by the PH. If the new area proves to be a consistent trophy producer, go without your wife. A leopard hunt isn't the most enjoyable hunt for an observer. If she isn't happy, it will be a lousy trip. If the area isn't a proven quality area, get a refund as he didn't live up to the contract.

quote:

posted 11 May 2013 00:35 Hide Post
Chaps,

You are missing the point. A member has booked a hunt under specific conditions. The operator who accepts a deposit and then change the goal posts is questionable.

Sounds like a money back scenario to me.

Andrew is right. All the speculation is pointless. The guy entered into a contract and made the required deposit. His wife agreed to accompany him on the hunt they planned. Now, the operator wants to change the deal.

NO WAY. Demand a refund and look for another operator.

The comments about the hunter's wife are rude. pointless, and certainly do not help him.

One clarification: I only gave marital advice above, and not hunting advice.

Each of us can decide for himself which is more important.

You had many good advices here but not the best one i suppose.

IMHO you just have 2 options :

1 - you divorce imediatly
2 - since you are going to hunt leopard you use your beloved wife as BATE !

My opinion considering these options , use the second one as it will be CHEAPER and most important of all you will have FUN at the same time.


Case closed !

The problem I see with this isn't the wife it's " the leopard you want is in a different place". Huh? So they know exactly where (your) leopard is going to be 2 months from now, yeah right. Fairgame is right, they should do what they agreed to do or refund your deposit. Classic bait and switch. It's funny how this always happens just a few weeks away and sometimes just as you step off the plane. Too many red flags.

Ok kids (those of you who are all-knowing about me and my wife) The lodgings are very important for health reasons. My wife is a cancer survivor and due to the nature of her one-year treatment, has a low tolerance for air-borne pollen, dust and other dirt. She doesn't just not like it, she can get inflammation of lymph nodes by her right arm. The tent is out due to that reason.

I specified all this to the PH when I met him at SCI. He changed the deal
Here's ALL the info I've received from him about the switch:

"So the good news is.......cat is feeding!!!!! Attached picture of very very large tom feeding and the one we are targeting for this hunt.

Bad news is that the lodge we will stay in is NOT the fancy place I showed the pictures off Tom. Sorry, but we have to go where the Tom takes us. The cat I was baiting at the nice lodge disappeared and have not been back. The accommodation will be in a luxury Safari tent complete with en-suite bathroom facility. Attached picture for your approval please?

Nothing else. No location, no change in funds, etc.

Ah yes, for those of you who advocate the tent life, be advised. I've hunted Botswana three times with Johan Calitz and lived in the tents. Enjoyed every minute. Also, I need not advice from internet shrinks about how to handle my wife. You unto yours, me unto mine.

What country? (South Africa?)

quote:

Originally posted by poprivit:
Ok kids (those of you who are all-knowing about me and my wife) The lodgings are very important for health reasons. My wife is a cancer survivor and due to the nature of her one-year treatment, has a low tolerance for air-borne pollen, dust and other dirt. She doesn't just not like it, she can get inflammation of lymph nodes by her right arm. The tent is out due to that reason....

....Also, I need not advice from internet shrinks about how to handle my wife. You unto yours, me unto mine.

Oops, I thought your wife just didn't like "roughing it". Don't know why I thought that...

quote:

Originally posted by poprivit:
and her idea of roughing it is unheated bath towels in a 5-star New York hotel.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
What country? (South Africa?)

This is a very important question and one that begs an answer from the OP.

If ZA is South Africa it could become particularly relevant if Poprivit wanted to cancel the hunt and get his money back especially if the hunt contract doesn't stipulate the type of accommodations that are to be used during the hunt (which most don't btw).

In ZA (as in "South Africa"), leopard permits are issued for a specific property/properties and not a general area / Province. An Outfitter may only market a hunt if he has been allocated a hunting right by the relevant Nature Conservation Authorities. This he would already have known by the time of the SCI Convention...

My point is that "if" the Outfitter had a leopard hunting right - he should have known at the time of selling the hunt where the hunt would take place and would have known the already what accommodations would be used.

An Outfitter Changing accommodations at a later stage (after the hunting permit was issued - which it must have been by now) implies changing of hunting areas and may imply an illegal hunt being offered. It will be easier to cancel a hunt and get a refund if the hunt was sold illegally than to base one's arguments on what was agreed verbally at SCI.

FWIW: I talked by phone to the PH. We got everything straightened out to both parties satisfaction. I'm going leopard hunting. 8000 miles and many differences sometimes makes communicating hard. I WILL have a hunting report after I get back July 14. I AM very much looking forward to this hunt.

It helps to pick up a phone sometimes. BTW: I was able to direct dial South Africa (ZA) from my Verizon phone. Just pick up and dial.

poprivit- I hope it turns out well and you kill a monster!

1 grow a pair
2 get a good lawyer to get rid of the princess
3 go hunting
2 and 3 are interchangeable

There are probably a lot of folks who have had their hunting areas changed, especially with the crap that has gone on in zim over the last year or so.

Go hunting. If you can convince her to go, so much the better. If not, take her to Paris after the hunt on the way home. A weekend in Paris is a whole lot cheaper than a divorce and buys a lot of points.

Also, she may well come around. My wife of 30+ years shares your wife's taste in terms of accomodations. She has never accompanied me on a safari, but she always had kids to deal with. Now that that mission is accomplished she wants to come along.

Now she's passed on fly camps and something that might actually resemble roughing it (like last year when there was no ice for the sundowners), she now has a desire to go. Now she wants a traditional East African tent camp (equivalent of a 5 star hotel), in an area with no tsetses, but hey, that's possible.

Good luck, but don't dump the wife because she doesn't want to rough it.

poprivit,

I am glad you seem to have worked things out with the outfitter.

Since the camp will likely have generators (if not utility power), consider taking along a HEPA air filtration unit and a converter.

It will at least the dust down inside the tent.

George

pop

Have the PH send some pictures of the new tented camp and a list of things that your wife will be able to do or go on while you are out looking for your leopard.

The more pictures the better for you to review with your wife. Sleeping quarters, dining area, camp fire area. Day activities area(s).

Now different places have different tented camp offerings and from my travels every one is different and have new things to experience.

I would let your PH know what your short comings are and explain what you are dealing with with the leopard hunting camp changes.

I would look at sleeping quarters 1st, cook and menu selection 2nd, things for your wife to do while you are in the field 3rd.

A let down is a let down and changes are changes and your wife is not as flexible as many are and those are things you will need to work with for your wife and her experience. If your wife decided to go along and is not happy with the camp you will not be happy either and the over all experience will be reflected to all around you.

if you are operating out of different locations like the lodge booked and the tented now be suggested, may be your wife could stay at the lodge while you are in the tented location. and when you are successful he meet up at the lodge to finish your safari.

you have to wonder,though, what will happen after the first drive to check baits... last time i was there Africa was pretty dusty, especially in the back of a Land Cruiser.

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
1 grow a pair
2 get a good lawyer to get rid of the princess
3 go hunting
2 and 3 are interchangeable

ASSININE COMMENT.

You damn guys are BRUTAL!!!
Obviously, he cares about his wife. I think he should find a durable replacement for himself for his wife and take his favorite girlfriend.

Poprivit,
I have seen some well thought out advice given in good faith and I've seen some pretty bad advice also given.

The totality of your circumstances are unique to you but it sounds as though a phone call was a good idea.

My advice is to shoot a big leopard and have a grand time. And yes, the AR Forums can sometimes be a tuff crowd. If you have grown up with brothers you know how brothers can be. Hopefully some of the comments were meant that way.

Yes, the comments were "interesting". I may have misled you on the final outcome. We will be staying at the original lodge - 5 star.

ddrhook - may you enjoy the sublime pleasure of a rectal-cranial inversion!

quote:

Originally posted by poprivit:
ddrhook - may you enjoy the sublime pleasure of a rectal-cranial inversion!

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
1 grow a pair
2 get a good lawyer to get rid of the princess
3 go hunting
2 and 3 are interchangeable

Jesus, that's scraping the bottom of the barrel. Very disappointing to see on AR. I like to think those who hang here have more class than that. Fortunately, most do.