I just got back from an Ibex hunt in Kyrgyzstan and my buddy has invited me to join his group on a bow hunting trip to Africa. I think the property is 20k acres high fenced and well managed.

Money might mean I cant go in 2013 anyway, but until I know that I am seriously thinking about it. My problem is I see people hunting plains game and it seems so... "tame" I guess. Wake up from your nice bed and 5-star resort, get in your pre-made hunting shelter over a water supply that is fake, with alfafa/feed on the ground and shoot whatever comes in. I dont have a problem with that (I've shot many african/exotic animals in Texas) but I am not sure I would want to travel half-way around the world for that. Is it really that much different than hunting a big high fence ranch in Texas? Do all of the animals breed and live on these ranches or are they raised somewhere else and trapped/released?

Am I missing something? I used to dream about hunting Africa but part of that dream was hunting 100's of thousands of open range acres and never knowing what to expect and being out in the middle of nowhere. Is there truly a wild Africa to hunt anymore?

I know some people are going to think I am trolling, and that is not the case. I am looking for opinions from people that have gone and experienced it first hand.

I should add that I am not talking about Dangerous game... I can't justify the $$$ to play in that market at the moment.

I think it all depends where you go and how you hunt...just like everything else. I represent an outfitter in Botswana who has a legitimate 108,000 acres...all animals are self sustaining and breed. There is no supplemental feeding. Other operators might have a thousand acres, feed food pellets and water at tanks. It all depends on who you go with and how much research you do.

As to the nice accomodations, I would be happy to take you out and have you walk 20k's a day in the heat and rocks and then throw down a sleeping back and oatmeal for dinner if you like. Anything is possible.

Each to his own I suppose. If you plainly tell you outfitter what you want, they can probably make the hunt as hard as you like and your accommodations as bad as you like.

As for the artificial water supply; many places in Africa are so dry at certain times of the year that game animals could not survive without supplemental water.

For a lot of hunters, going to Africa is a or THE trip of a lifetime. Kids, house payment, college, new truck......Going to Africa takes a back seat to a bunch of willing participants. If and when they finally do get to go, they most likely have a shopping list of animals that they would like to harvest and most often, that isn't going to work out on an unfenced plain. A lot of the high fenced concessions, be it a 60 acre parcel or a 25,000 acre spread provide just enough to get their animal population taken care of through the dry season. I know of a couple that throw hay to feed when the times are tough but most are left on their own. And don't fool yourself, those animals aren't pets. On some places they feed on a regular basis and those animals are conditioned to be in a certain place at a certain time. I have hunted the high fence concessions and the wide open of Zim and Moz. If I had to choose, I would choose to hunt the unfenced wild areas, but to qualify that, I already have most of the plains game that I want to take. It's more than the hunting, might have something to do with the ambience, the sights and smells, the sounds and the different scenery. Bow hunting for plains game on foot in unfenced territory might just be more shoe leather than you want to wear off.

PAGO + 1000

I have to completely agree with the last part of his statement. Bowhunting African game generally revolves around sitting in a blind over, salt, water, or food! Which is how many different species are hunted with bows, deer, bears, whatever.

I've hunted lots of plainsgame with a rifle, 80+ different animals on multiple trips. There's very few chances, if any, that I could have taken them with a bow. So No there's not a difference in sitting in a blind in Texas or RSA...it's the same experience, different animals. I used to bowhunt only, and since I started doing international hunts, I picked up a rifle. One because I don't want to be limited on yardage, and bc hunting out of a blind is BORING to me.

Now, there are people who will say, we can stalk animals and get into range...yes you can...often though, getting into position on the TROPHY animal you want, will be damn near impossible, bc you have to remember, many African animals are in herds, roaming around, getting a clean shot with a gun is challenging.

If you want to hunt wide open country, I don't think a bow would be my choice. Most Bow operations are high fenced areas and they are set up to have the animals congregate somewhere...which is the only way you would ever get a chance.

I've hunted high fence places with a rifle and not gotten what I wanted as well...so it's not just a done deal with a rifle.

I always say, if you're determined to knock out a list of animals, and you're not insanely wealthy with as many trips/whenever you want to go ability...bow hunting might not be the best choice. There are guys who have taken everything with a bow..but they go often and frequently after the same animal multiple times.

As far as lodging, you can do tents, lodge, blanket, whatever your heart desires, where you sleep doesn't change the challenge of the hunt in my opinion. I prefer the nicest accommodations possible...I've done both tents and lodges. Bow hunting is best when it's dry...very dry...meaning HOT...tents aren't fun when it's hot! They all are part of the experience...you just have to decide what's right for you.

Don't kid yourself and think you're going to be on a Roosevelt adventure, that's hardly possible in today's hunting world. Big Free Range hunting is $$$$$$$...it's out there, but it won't come on a budget.

Like most have said before, it depends on the operator.

Go hunt, take it for what it is. When you are ready for Dangerous Game, go to Zim, Moz, Tanz, Zambia, etc. They will be much different than what you will likely experience here.

Africa is not this Homogeneous experience where all hunts are the same. You have different cultures from different areas within each African country. Different animals, different tactics.

I believe Boddington put it best when he said something to the effect of, "Every time I go to Africa realize I know less about it than I did before."

Figure out exactly the kind of experience you are looking for and what you are not looking for. Discuss this with the PH before you book and see what can be done to make it happen.

Wilder, bigger chunks of African wilderness are out there for sure. It tends to be more expensive but worth it in my opinion. It all comes back to the kind of experience you are looking for.

Everyone is different when it come to that. Different strokes.....

I bow hunt some at home but like others have said, A rifle is my choice for Africa. I enjoy walking, tracking, stalking and seeing the land and animals on foot as much as possible. You can certainly do this with a bow but you are more limited to what you can do. If the experience/challenge is worth more than a lot of trophies in the bag than I am sure you could have a blast with a bow. That being said, I would cosider taking or borrowing a rifle as a backup plan. You could always plan to do a few days in the blinds and a few days stalking or rifle hunting if the Ph will work with you on that.

I would imagine doing the waterhole/blind thing would be very similar to what you have done in Texas but I do not think you would feel like you are in Texas. The sights, sounds, birds, plants, animals, people, light, smells etc....make Africa unique.

Thanks guys, great information. I am not dedicated bow, in fact all of my international/out of Texas hunts have been with a rifle and lately I've been hunting with a pistol here in Texas.

Honestly, I would rather a spot and stalk rifle hunt than a blind sit bow hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by bhtkevin:


Honestly, I would rather a spot and stalk rifle hunt than a blind sit bow hunt.

Then I humbly suggest even if PG is on the menu you do it where dangerous game roams free.

Cheers
Jim

Amen, brothers! Well said.

Been on two hunts in Africa. One for DG and a second for PG. If you can't understand the difference between hunting in Texas and hunting in Africa, then stay home.

Zim 2010
Zim 2012

quote:

Originally posted by DHSinger:
Been on two hunts in Africa. One for DG and a second for PG. If you can't understand the difference between hunting in Texas and hunting in Africa, then stay home.

Zim 2010
Zim 2012

Bit harsh!!

The only stupid question is the one never asked. I suppose sitting on a water hole blind in a fenced Texas exotic ranch and sitting on a water hole blind in Africa could be different. I suspect with headphones on playing the right wildlife sounds you might not know the difference.

That said I haven't done either.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

Then I humbly suggest even if PG is on the menu you do it where dangerous game roams free.

Cheers
Jim

This is why Namibia would be my choice if I were a bowhunter. No fences and many areas of Damaraland have plenty of Leopard, Desert Elephant, and Cheetah to keep you entertained. Frankly, Namibia will also likely be cheaper and safer in addition to offering a better and wilder hunt experience so why go to RSA?

You can not look at the too options in the same light.

For me I did the harder stuff when I was young.
Off to the hills in the 20's is a lot easier than in the 40"s

Each is a hunt in it's own right and should be look at in there own light far to different to compare.

I say it is not a question of what others want or say.

What do you want, that is all that matters.

Regards Mark

I have done both,
I would never do a high fenced africa hunt again. Its not so much the high fence. Its mainly the fact that the africa i have seen on TV and read about my whole life has an element of danger to the bush. Lions, elephants, buff, hippo etc. etc.
Even if i went back for just plains game, it would have to be somewhere like the Save or Bubaye that has dangerous game present.

quote:

Originally posted by bhtkevin:
Thanks guys, great information. I am not dedicated bow, in fact all of my international/out of Texas hunts have been with a rifle and lately I've been hunting with a pistol here in Texas.

Honestly, I would rather a spot and stalk rifle hunt than a blind sit bow hunt.

Try a double rifle with irons!
I just got back and did most of my hunting this way.

Sure, youre not going to come back with the 20-30+ species that some guys shoot in a 2-3week trip, but I took a double and stalked trophys. In a 10 day hunt I took 7 nice animals that I had to get within 80yards(and closer) of.

Yes you can shoot the same species in Texas, but as you know, its a totally different experience. .. saving my money to go back.

Thanks all for the (mostly) terrific responses on this thread and in PM.

Some of you get what I am saying, and others missed the point but overall I think I could put together a game plan that would fit my hunting style/desires.

I'll have to look into open sights and double rifle, that sounds like fun.

if you just hunted Ibex, I have to assume you are physically in good shape so going on strenuous stalks would not be a problem. Don't generalize africa hunts by what you see on Tv. Bow hunts over water holes is very productive but it is not a guaranteee of success. Yes I have been bored sitting there,, but other times I have had 6-7 species of animals around me at the same times and took lots of video and pictures and it was very exciting.

You will watch gun hunts where hunters travel long distances looking for fresh tracks and see a trophy right beside the road and everyone bails out and they shoot 10 feet from the truck,, but it doesn't have to be that way either.

The ranches I have hunted for plainsgame with my bow have been in Namibia,, the accomodations were comfortable but not plush,, food outstanding and the campfires a memory of a lifetime.

I have hunted very primitive as well,,,in a tent, sleeping on a fold up cot with no running water, no hot water, no laundry service, but good food as well, that was at 55 years of age,, at 57,, give me the comfort!

While folks are younger and in great health and physical condition,, Go For It!!! go do the hard stuff,,,,but don't think bow hunting in a blind is like shooting fish in a barrel...

Get some Mopane smoke in your lungs and you will be addicted like the rest of us and their are plenty of options to fit you hunting style.

quote:

Originally posted by bhtkevin:
Thanks all for the (mostly) terrific responses on this thread and in PM.

Some of you get what I am saying, and others missed the point but overall I think I could put together a game plan that would fit my hunting style/desires.

I'll have to look into open sights and double rifle, that sounds like fun.

It was so much fun, but I am very glad I made my intentions known to the outfitter ahead of time. My PH had a lot of experience with bow hunters so he was used to being patient (we did have plenty of unsuccessful stalks, but that made it that much sweeter when you finally walked up and took pics with your trophy).

If you are anywhere around Fort Worth feel free to PM me.


This has changed the way I am going to hunt deer and Nilgai this year, I cant wait!

I have hunted high fenced areas and enjoyed the hunting. High fence doesn't mean it has be put&take, it can be done right.
If you think hunting a high fence ranch does not work for you, go to a nice low fence area. Make sure you book with an outfitter that offers good fair chase hunting.

If you can stand not to go to Africa -- don't. That's how I decide...

I am curious, where does one hunt to get 20-30 species in a two or three week safari? That is averaging over 1 species a day.

It is not hunting it is shooting.


Mike

the catch pen on our ranch is five times that big.

It sounds more like live target shooting.

You need better friends, or to attend the DSC or SCI Annual Conventions and find out what a legitimte hunt involves.

quote:

the catch pen on our ranch is five times that big.

5x 20Ksq=100ksq= 24710 acres= 38.6 sections

Rich once again you are not believable

try to be realistic when giving advice-

quote:

Originally posted by DHSinger:
Been on two hunts in Africa. One for DG and a second for PG. If you can't understand the difference between hunting in Texas and hunting in Africa, then stay home.

Zim 2010
Zim 2012

……………………………………………… Just plian DUMB!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

Bit harsh!!

Frostbit, there’s one in every crowed!
……………………………………………

quote:

Originally posted by bhtkevin:
Thanks all for the (mostly) terrific responses on this thread and in PM.

Some of you get what I am saying, and others missed the point but overall I think I could put together a game plan that would fit my hunting style/desires.

I'll have to look into open sights and double rifle, that sounds like fun.

bhtKevin, those who told you fenced hunting can be fair chase if done properly are spot on! Much depends on the WAY you hunt more than a fence! Certainly there are places where the animals have been so used to people that they little more than farm livestock (read MILK COWS), but that is not because of the fence, that is because of the people who own the operation.

Even a property that is small, comparatively, can be a satisfying hunting experience, depending how it is conducted, and the cover afforded the game. It seems when anyone is trying to put down any type of hunting, an unfair comparison to the state of Texas comes into play. Most times by people who have never even been in the state of Texas for any reason, much less to hunt.

If the game is not handled by humans and are hunted regularly on foot they become very wary and if the bush is thick enough for them to get out of sight quickly, and you are hunting spot and stalk the hunt can be just as fair chase as any spot and stalk hunt anyplace.

We in the DRSS have hunted wild hogs, in both high fence and low fence along the Neches River at Camp Cooley Ranch near Ridge Texas and eland bulls inside 1000 acres of high fence. I can assure you if hunted spot and stalk in that jungle with an iron sighted double rifle or handgun you will be lucky to get a shot, much less a trophy! In that stuff if a 2000 lb Eland bull can stand still and you can crawl within ten feet of him, and if he doesn’t move you will never see him, and if he bolts, you’ll be lucky to get a shot off before he is out of sight, and long gone. You could hide an African elephant in that stuff. So! It is not the fence, it is the way the hunt is conducted that makes it fair chase or sniping!

.........................................................................

SilentT just went to the best bow hunting place that I have heard of in Africa, no slight on anyone else by any means, and I was there hunting with a rifle. Africa is the most amazing place in the world and it is what you make it and who you go with. If you go to RSA and hunt in a small pen it is what it is but I hunted at Blaauwkrantz and it was amazing and at Kanana in Botswana and it is the same thing. I would go to Africa before I will go anywhere else.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
the catch pen on our ranch is five times that big.

It sounds more like live target shooting.

You need better friends, or to attend the DSC or SCI Annual Conventions and find out what a legitimte hunt involves.

*SIGH*

This is a very popular SCI/DSC operator. Thanks for your enlightening and so well thought out addition to this thread.

Thanks again everyone for posting some great information and giving input.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

bhtKevin, those who told you fenced hunting can be fair chase if done properly are spot on! Much depends on the WAY you hunt more than a fence! Certainly there are places where the animals have been so used to people that they little more than farm livestock (read MILK COWS), but that is not because of the fence, that is because of the people who own the operation.

Even a property that is small, comparatively, can be a satisfying hunting experience, depending how it is conducted, and the cover afforded the game. It seems when anyone is trying to put down any type of hunting, an unfair comparison to the state of Texas comes into play. Most times by people who have never even been in the state of Texas for any reason, much less to hunt.

If the game is not handled by humans and are hunted regularly on foot they become very wary and if the bush is thick enough for them to get out of sight quickly, and you are hunting spot and stalk the hunt can be just as fair chase as any spot and stalk hunt anyplace.

We in the DRSS have hunted wild hogs, in both high fence and low fence along the Neches River at Camp Cooley Ranch near Ridge Texas and eland bulls inside 1000 acres of high fence. I can assure you if hunted spot and stalk in that jungle with an iron sighted double rifle or handgun you will be lucky to get a shot, much less a trophy! In that stuff if a 2000 lb Eland bull can stand still and you can crawl within ten feet of him, and if he doesn’t move you will never see him, and if he bolts, you’ll be lucky to get a shot off before he is out of sight, and long gone. You could hide an African elephant in that stuff. So! It is not the fence, it is the way the hunt is conducted that makes it fair chase or sniping!

.........................................................................

Thanks for that. I have hunted many HF ranches in Texas (I helped build a very large hunting company down there that has now taken a back seat to the oil boom). I agree that some are wild and very hard to hunt. I've hunted a HUGE low fence cattle ranch where the deer were much, much easier to hunt than a 400AC high fenced ranch. I agree that it really boils down to terrain and conditioning.

I have no problems with HF and will continue to hunt them here in Texas when the opportunity arises, but when I travel and spend large chunks of money to hunt local game, I want a truly natural experience. I dont generally travel to hunt for just the animals; I love the culture, the people and the experience. On most trips, I will use my camera 10x more than my rifle.

I am still in the process of typing up my Ibex hunt (gonna wait for our trophies to arrive by mail before posting it anyway) but here is a link to my Alaska Black Bear hunt I took my Dad on a few years back.

Kevin that was a great hunt report on your, and your dad’s black bear hunt in Alaska! I’ve hunted Alaska for many years, and in some ways it is more exciting that even Africa.

On the HF hunts, I’ve never hunted anything but open concessions in Africa, and have never seen a fence there! I too enjoy the people, and long treks on spoor, in areas where there may be a lion, buffalo or elephant behind the next tree even when hunting a puku or little impala. That is the biggest difference between HF and concessions in Africa, or hunting African game in Texas. If dangerous game is not something you have to watch for, it simply takes something away from the hunt. Still some very good trophies can be had with good fair chase hunts in HF areas in RSA if done properly. Like you I still prefer concession hunting, but the places in Texas where I hunt most are low fence, and very large properties, and are very good fill in hunts for a man who can’t afford to hunt Africa every year like some here, and at my age (77 yrs) and fixed income of retirement will likely never hunt Africa again! It seems unless I hit the lotto my African run is over! So, if you can, hunt Africa as much as you can before you reach my age, and/or financial inability to do so! Use the game ranches here for the filler between proper safaris! What ever you do, just enjoy it and don’t worry about the opinion of others who likely have not done either!

………………………………………………………………………….......................................... ..

I've only been to Africa once but I set up the deal with the outfitter that I would pay a reasonable daily rate and stay more days so that I could hunt my way, it wasn't fenced by the way. I didnt want to sit in a water hole hide. When you hunt the hard way any animal you take is a trophy and if that's how you want to hunt it can still be very challenging hunting behind a fence. you definitely won't come home with as many animals but it might be worth it for the experience. It all depends on your definition of success.

Relatively luxurious accomodations have been de rigour in Africa for decades. The point of it all is to make your in-camp experience stress free so you can hunt your a** off while in the field. As for fences, there are many different kinds. Putting a borehole in the desert-common in Namibia-is a de facto fence of sorts. It does not change the wild and free-range nature of the animals. As so many here have stated, without blinds and water, bowhunting would be a low-chance affair--just like trying to take the big cats without baits and blinds.

bhtkevin,
Hunting wild Africa without fences is certainly available, even in Namibia and RSA. Check out the conservancies in the Kunene region in northwestern Namibia. These are vast open areas without fences.

However, bowhunting will be an extreme challenge due to the wide open areas. Daily rates and trophy fees are reasonable and a tented camp will be more of the norm. Although limited in species, you will see good numbers of game, both dangerous and plains type. However, you must accept the possibility of coming home empty handed if a bow is used exclusively.

Geoff

If you forget your romantic notions and preconceived opinions on South Africa you can have more hunting there than anywhere else.

Find a farm you like and do it your way. Dont let people bullshit you into thinking that all game is pen raised. If .01% of the game in the country ever sees a pellet it is a lot.

Walk and stalk bow hunting on any game animal is extremely difficult. Choose a bow hunting specialist to guide you or you will come home empty handed.
Good luck
HQ