quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by bobmn:
df06: Thanks for taking the time to answer my inquiry. In August of 2011 I booked a buffalo hunt with Martin Pieters of Bulembi Safaris in Omay South campfire area which he offered on this website. He stipulated payment in full 60 days prior to the hunt date and I wired him the daily rate as well as the trophy fee. Because of the strong recommendations from members of this board I was not hesitant to pay in full. Like you I did not see a mature bull. I have been requesting the return of the trophy fee from Mr. Pieters via email and private messages and to date I have not received a refund of the trophy fee.

I don't understand paying the full cost of a hunt 60 days out, to include TFs. Granted, the client may cancel, but some of the hunt costs are also negated.

How often does a client cancel? Has anyone here ever cancelled 60 days out?

I am always nervous about transferring large sums of money. Even if the booking agent holds it, there is nothing to say he/she won't go BK before your hunt. Guess what? In BK those funds are frozen - you get in line with everyone else who has a claim, and yours isn't even secured.

Quite simple mate and simply ask the deposit to be classed as refundable or transferrable.

Most quality Operators/PH's will work on a hand shake and never mess you about with money.

AR is one of the best booking sites in the world purely because there is a host of fine operators who are proven here.

quote:

AR is one of the best booking sites in the world purely because there is a host of fine operators who are proven here.

I have to agree with Andrew on this statement.
But I personally would not like paying trophy fees up front with anyone.

quote:

I have been requesting the return of the trophy fee from Mr. Pieters via email and private messages and to date I have not received a refund of the trophy fee.

Gee! What a surprise, I guess I'm not the only one who has not received emails or messages back from Martin Pieters when I tried to contact him concerning money I was due. To be honest, that problem seems to be all too familiar with way too many African PHs.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by bobmn:
df06: Thanks for taking the time to answer my inquiry. In August of 2011 I booked a buffalo hunt with Martin Pieters of Bulembi Safaris in Omay South campfire area which he offered on this website. He stipulated payment in full 60 days prior to the hunt date and I wired him the daily rate as well as the trophy fee. Because of the strong recommendations from members of this board I was not hesitant to pay in full. Like you I did not see a mature bull. I have been requesting the return of the trophy fee from Mr. Pieters via email and private messages and to date I have not received a refund of the trophy fee.

I don't understand paying the full cost of a hunt 60 days out, to include TFs. Granted, the client may cancel, but some of the hunt costs are also negated.

How often does a client cancel? Has anyone here ever cancelled 60 days out?

I am always nervous about transferring large sums of money. Even if the booking agent holds it, there is nothing to say he/she won't go BK before your hunt. Guess what? In BK those funds are frozen - you get in line with everyone else who has a claim, and yours isn't even secured.

Quite simple mate and simply ask the deposit to be classed as refundable or transferrable.

Most quality Operators/PH's will work on a hand shake and never mess you about with money.

AR is one of the best booking sites in the world purely because there is a host of fine operators who are proven here.

I agree. I just booked a hunt with a guy and asked what he needs for a deposit. He penned me in and said "nothing for now." When he asks for the cash, he will get what he wants.

On all of my hunts with Martin I prepaid my daily rates and charters before leaving the States for my hunts. No issues there. I have done the same with many other operators. My deposits went to an American bank. After the hunt, I paid tips in cash but never settled for trophy fees until I got back home and wired funds to Mart's bank here. I have never had issues.. I trusted him to provide the hunt, he trusted me to pay my Tfs. We are both men of our word.

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:

quote:

I have been requesting the return of the trophy fee from Mr. Pieters via email and private messages and to date I have not received a refund of the trophy fee.

Gee! What a surprise, I guess I'm not the only one who has not received emails or messages back from Martin Pieters when I tried to contact him concerning money I was due. To be honest, that problem seems to be all too familiar with way too many African PHs.

This is beginning to sound disturbing.


We have had many discussions here regarding deposits in the past.

The way I understand it is a deposit for daily rate is almost often non-refundable.

Paying ahead for trophy fees - as many do, including myself - is to make life easier for everyone concerned.

And is NOT, repeat NOT, non refundable.

It must be returned, or used for a future hunt, as the CLIENT agrees.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bwanamrm:
On all of my hunts with Martin I prepaid my daily rates and charters before leaving the States for my hunts. No issues there. I have done the same with many other operators. My deposits went to an American bank. After the hunt, I paid tips in cash but never settled for trophy fees until I got back home and wired funds to Mart's bank here. I have never had issues.. I trusted him to provide the hunt, he trusted me to pay my Tfs. We are both men of our word.[/QUOTE
Same with me.

I've had great success dealing with Martin and his wife, Candy. When a concession at which we were to hunt was compromised, he offered to send me back my deposit, but I chose to apply it elsewhere (with his wife at her photo area, Nehimba). We had a great trip!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by bobmn:
df06: Thanks for taking the time to answer my inquiry. In August of 2011 I booked a buffalo hunt with Martin Pieters of Bulembi Safaris in Omay South campfire area which he offered on this website. He stipulated payment in full 60 days prior to the hunt date and I wired him the daily rate as well as the trophy fee. Because of the strong recommendations from members of this board I was not hesitant to pay in full. Like you I did not see a mature bull. I have been requesting the return of the trophy fee from Mr. Pieters via email and private messages and to date I have not received a refund of the trophy fee.

I am not saying it didn't happen but why wait form 8/11 to 1/15 to raise the issue?

I never pay trophy fees in advance nor have I ever been asked to do so. This includes Martin
whose company I hunted with last year.

When I was booking my hunt with Martin, I asked him on the phone if I could the trophy fee before I came over. I don't like the idea of carrying a lot of cash with me. Martin said No, wait till afterwards.

I have no complaints with Martin or his crew.

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by bobmn:
df06: Thanks for taking the time to answer my inquiry. In August of 2011 I booked a buffalo hunt with Martin Pieters of Bulembi Safaris in Omay South campfire area which he offered on this website. He stipulated payment in full 60 days prior to the hunt date and I wired him the daily rate as well as the trophy fee. Because of the strong recommendations from members of this board I was not hesitant to pay in full. Like you I did not see a mature bull. I have been requesting the return of the trophy fee from Mr. Pieters via email and private messages and to date I have not received a refund of the trophy fee.

I am not saying it didn't happen but why wait form 8/11 to 1/15 to raise the issue?

I never pay trophy fees in advance nor have I ever been asked to do so. This includes Martin
whose company I hunted with last year.

When I was booking my hunt with Martin, I asked him on the phone if I could the trophy fee before I came over. I don't like the idea of carrying a lot of cash with me. Martin said No, wait till afterwards.

I have no complaints with Martin or his crew.

This is exactly what happened to me when I went last October.

Again , I am not saying thst none of this happened. It is certainly not what I experienced.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by wrenchmaster:

quote:

I have been requesting the return of the trophy fee from Mr. Pieters via email and private messages and to date I have not received a refund of the trophy fee.

Gee! What a surprise, I guess I'm not the only one who has not received emails or messages back from Martin Pieters when I tried to contact him concerning money I was due. To be honest, that problem seems to be all too familiar with way too many African PHs.

This is beginning to sound disturbing.


We have had many discussions here regarding deposits in the past.

The way I understand it is a deposit for daily rate is almost often non-refundable.

Paying ahead for trophy fees - as many do, including myself - is to make life easier for everyone concerned.

And is NOT, repeat NOT, non refundable.

It must be returned, or used for a future hunt, as the CLIENT agrees.

Saeed: My understanding of trophy fees is the same as yours. Martin Pieters emailed:
From: martin@bulembisafaris.co.zw

Hi Bob

I hope you had a safe trip home and that you enjoyed the
trip to the Omay and to Big cave camp. Sorry about your buffalo, if you
decide you would like to return, I will put together a discounted
package so we can get one on you wall. let me know, we could do it later
this year, or 2012, your call.

Herewith a breakdown of your hunt, let me know if it all in order:


Hunt package as per AR $ 8750
Observers @ $ 100 each x 3 , total $ 2100
Observer tax $ 42
Charter $ 1400
Zebra $ 1100
Trophy fee tax $ 22
Dip/ pack $ 400

Total costs $ 13 814
Less deposits received $ 12 792

Balance outstanding $ 1022
Refund on buffalo not shot $ 3000

Total refund due to you $ 1 978

Let me know if you would like to put that towards another buffalo
safari, or if you would like me to send you a cheque.


Kind Regards

Martin
Saeed, what are your suggestions to prevent something like I experienced from happening to other members of this board?

Ummm.. I dont get it. Your email seems to completely vindicate Martin who has a good reputation.
You hunted and hunted at a very low/competitive price on the Buffalo and your observer rate was very low/discounted.
You shot a Zebra at $1,100.. So what? The only complaint I have seen is you are balking on the trophy rate on a burchells Zebra? $1,100 is reasonable and generally the going rate.
He clearly offered to refund the Buffalo trophy fee or roll it forward for you.

This makes your complaint seem ridiculous other than the disappointment of not harvesting a buffalo.

Did you not get the $1,978 back after the emails and requesting?

Poyntman:

I believe Bob is saying he has not received the refunded trophy fee offered by Martin after 3 plus years.

Is that correct Bob?

Do you have emails from you to Martin specifically requesting the refund once it was offered by Martin? Follow up emails may help clarify the situation.

That's obviously a different matter...he clearly offered to in his email and if the 3k was paid it certainly should have been.
I know early in the thread there was some confusion on the difference in the other fees between the two companies for the one other animal..the Zebra.

Anyone who has been to Africa before knows that seldom does everything go to plan - like as in never. Therefore it's not a good idea to pay in advance for animals that you hope to collect, but may not find; especially in Zimbabwe these days. This is sort of like paying for a used car before you arrive on the lot.

While there are a lot of very honest PHs out there, most do not have huge back office support and even fewer operate with high efficiency. So it's best to find the trophy, shoot the trophy, then pay for the trophy when you get back home. And most honest PHs/outfitters are willing to accept this arrangement. If they find that arrangement unacceptable, you better start asking a whole bunch of questions and/or find another opportunity.

I don't relish the idea of the used car salesman holding my money in the hopes he will return it in a timely manner if I don't find my dream car. It always pays to be an informed consumer.

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:
Did you not get the $1,978 back after the emails and requesting?

Poyntman: I have not received any money from Pieters.

quote:

Gee! What a surprise, I guess I'm not the only one who has not received emails or messages back from Martin Pieters when I tried to contact him concerning money I was due.

RCG: I have been treated exactly like Wrenchmaster. No answer to multiple emails or private messages. I have called the cell phone Pieters uses in the US during show season. Just one example, on May 9, 2012 at 9:54 PM I emailed:
Martin: It looks like my schedule will not allow me to hunt this year. Could you please send me a check from the buffalo trophy fee not used? Thanks. Bob

quote:

So it's best to find the trophy, shoot the trophy, then pay for the trophy when you get back home.

The above statement suggests that while some PH/Outfitters may NOT be entirely honest in their dealings, all clients are ?

Background checks are far easier to conduct on outfitters (as evidenced publicly on AR, by PM or word of mouth) but almost impossible for clients.

The outfitter also runs the risk of being "stiffed" by the client, something which is not unheard of either.

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:
I know early in the thread there was some confusion on the difference in the other fees between the two companies for the one other animal..the Zebra.

Poyntman: You are confusing me with df06. I did not hunt with 2 different companies. I only hunted with Bulembi Safaris owned by Pieters.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

So it's best to find the trophy, shoot the trophy, then pay for the trophy when you get back home.

The above statement suggests that while some PH/Outfitters may NOT be entirely honest in their dealings, all clients are ?

Background checks are far easier to conduct on outfitters (as evidenced publicly on AR, by PM or word of mouth) but almost impossible for clients.

The outfitter also runs the risk of being "stiffed" by the client, something which is not unheard of either.

There are some countries where you must pay in advance regardless what you shoot. So there are always exceptions, but when hunting in southern Africa, it is best to reserve final payment until the end of the hunt or when you get home.

And yes, there are stories of impossible clients who refuse final payment because they didn't get 195% of their wishes fulfilled so the PH/outfitter does assume some risk. In 1998 I went to bat for a PH who's client shot a 73+/- pounder instead of the field estimated 80 pound ele. Client threw his toys when he got back and cancelled the check before the PH could make it to the bank. But a letter from a US lawyer quickly solved that problem. Anyhow, the client told all his buddies it was a 95+ pounder so WTF was the pissing and moaning all about anyhow???

At the end of the day it's your money, so you do have some say in how it is to be spent. Everything in life is negotiable and everything in Africa is for sale. So there is always a LOT of wiggle room when it comes to hunting here. My suggestion is to always negotiate - you may be surprised with what you can get when you do.

PS - With the Euro cratering, there will be a lot less Euros headed this way. The USD will and does buy a lot here at the moment (hint, hint)

I have a good strong rope. We can get his wife and kids to watch and then they can feed his body to the crocs.

And I am going to put up the pictures on facebook.

Bob:

It appears you have given Martin more than enough time to address your refund request.

It is also quite clear that Martin is a frequent poster on AR offering hunts, etc., so he can't say he has been out of touch or his computer is down.

We need to hear Martin's version but so far the evidence and silence is troubling.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bwanamrm:
On all of my hunts with Martin I prepaid my daily rates and charters before leaving the States for my hunts. No issues there. I have done the same with many other operators. My deposits went to an American bank. After the hunt, I paid tips in cash but never settled for trophy fees until I got back home and wired funds to Mart's bank here. I have never had issues.. I trusted him to provide the hunt, he trusted me to pay my Tfs. We are both men of our word.[/QUOTE
Same with me.

I have no dog in this fight on this Kangaroo Court because Like most here I don't have the facts!

Regarding the two quotes above IMO that is the proper way to handle all monetary dealings.

I have never had a problem dealing with a Safari outfitter because of this way of doing things.

For many years several safari companies have taken out banking accounts in the USA which works well for both the safari companies and clients alike! One of the safari companies I have hunted with has banking in a bank that is only eight miles from my front door, so I pay there in person by check. Works as smooth as silk!

....................................................................

While I have never been asked to front trophy fees, I can surely understand why an outfitter would ask for up front payments . There are a lot of people in the world who wound stiff the outfitters.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
While I have never been asked to front trophy fees, I can surely understand why an outfitter would ask for up front payments . There are a lot of people in the world who wound stiff the outfitters.

And, there are some outfitters and agents who would stiff the hunter. How does one tell? A former friend and PH in aim now wants all fees paid in advance of the hunt with the promise he will wire refunds for animals not taken. It's a crap shoot at best.
Cal

Same with me, there has to balance
It's like handing contractor all the money to build your house before he breaks the ground
I like the African companies having bank in US so after the hunt, you can pay the difference without worrying about some funny business
" Trust but verify " for both sides
That being said, I never heard anything bad about Martin Pieters, but also understand there is always someone that will never be satisfied and so forth.
I run into it occasionally in my business

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
While I have never been asked to front trophy fees, I can surely understand why an outfitter would ask for up front payments . There are a lot of people in the world who wound stiff the outfitters.

I KNOW there are more crooked clients than crooked PHs.

I am sure Martin will chime in and clear this up.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
It is curious why this was not handled by PM.

Because it was never designed to be private.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
It is curious why this was not handled by PM.

Because it was never designed to be private.

That is correct. Maybe The OP thought that the matter was handled privately for long enough. We've heard one side. Let's hear the other three sides

My experience with Martin was quite straight forward. Booked my buff/tuskless at the last minute for a late season hunt. Paid about half up front, had an OUTSTANDING adventure, wired him the balance and trophy fees when I got home. No issues at all, he trusted me to pay after the hunt was concluded.

Timing is a bit of an issue here and everyone may not be keyed into that, including the original poster.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Timing is a bit of an issue here and everyone may not be keyed into that, including the original poster.

Huh?
What are we missing?

Saeed, you might be right about there being more clients that are unethical.
As I walked around the DSC event a week ago, I did however conclude that there are lots more clients than Safari companies.
I did talk to one safari company that got stiffed for $70 grand. After some wrangling he did get the payment. And I have a close friend that put $25K down on an elephant hunt and the safari company dissolved. He lost is all.
Unfortunately, like any other area of commerce, there are people on both sides that will take advantage of others if given the opportunity.

As above there are all kinds of people in the hunting industry , but Martin Pieters is not one of the bad apples , he is one of the good guys and although this is what AR is for , i think you should continue to talk directly with Martin clearly stating your side and clearly stating your expectations to resolve the situation, free of accusations and opinion. This forum clouds ones ability to think rationally.

Informative info on here. Good to know when I book second hunt

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
As above there are all kinds of people in the hunting industry , but Martin Pieters is not one of the bad apples , he is one of the good guys and although this is what AR is for , i think you should continue to talk directly with Martin clearly stating your side and clearly stating your expectations to resolve the situation, free of accusations and opinion. This forum clouds ones ability to think rationally.

Perhaps so, but I note that MP has been on these forums several times lately and has not come on this thread to say, either, "That's not the way it was", or "He has his money." Makes me wonder why?

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
As above there are all kinds of people in the hunting industry , but Martin Pieters is not one of the bad apples , he is one of the good guys and although this is what AR is for , i think you should continue to talk directly with Martin clearly stating your side and clearly stating your expectations to resolve the situation, free of accusations and opinion. This forum clouds ones ability to think rationally.

Perhaps so, but I note that MP has been on these forums several times lately and has not come on this thread to say, either, "That's not the way it was", or "He has his money." Makes me wonder why?

I was wondering myself this very fact.

I really wish Martin would say something regarding this.

Keeping quiet might give others the wrong impression.

Maybe I am missing something, but isn't a major point here for all potential Buff hunters that here is a client that hunted 7 days in the south Omay and didn't see a buff....and little plainsgame?
Seems to me I recall some comments about a fellow that hunted the same area-last year- with the same company with similar results...he saw one early in the hunt, no more, young PH, 21/2 hours each way from camp to hunting area....on and on.
Seems there are learnings for everyone to absorb regardless of what the point of the post might be?...ie in this case deposits....what about successful Buff Hunts?

quote:

Without going into too much detail.
At the time of this safari my mother was dating Peter Johnstone ( owner of Rosslyn ), I had the hunting rights to Cawstone.
I marketed my combo hunts ( Omay/ Cawstone )using my price list.
Bob booked his hunt with my company, not Rosslyn safaris.
My trophy fees were slightly higher as there are other costs involved in running a hunting operation.
As far as the buffalo is concerned, Bob is very much aware of what transpired on the hunt and he has been emailed.
Cheers

martin@bulembisafaris.co.zw

I thought Martin did answer...