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In the monthly SCI mag "Safari" when reading the member's stories, they constantly use terms like impalas, buffaloes, and elands when referring to more than one animal. Isn't the plural of these animals written the same as when referring to one? As in one buffalo, two buffalo, a whole freaking herd of buffalo? It makes me think of someone saying they saw lots of deers or a herd of elks.  Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | ||
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I must admit it bothers me as well, but being dyslexic and transposing numbers, and letters on top of being a poor speller, I have no room to criticize anyone else!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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+1! "If you can't go all out, don't go..." | |||
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Blacktailer, You should be bothered...however, take solace that you have time to write about these annoying things as you sit on your deck in God's country... ...you miserable SoB you... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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You bet. Think about it this way. When a "media sports announcer" continually mispronounces star's names, it becomes obvious he/she is just some bozo reading a script. Could it be SCI writers are a bunch of clueless writers who have never seen an impala, or impales, or impali or......  Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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Blacktailer: There are some animal names, such as deer, that are both singular and plural. Buffalo, impala, and eland are not among them. (Check your dictionary.) To make them so would be like someone saying "Goldilocks and the three bear," "the bird and the bee," "all the pretty horse," "multiply like rabbit," "those six cow," and "it's raining cat and dog." Can you imagine Dorothy and friends singing "Lion, tiger and bear" while skipping down that yellow brick road? To make it more confusing, although I doubt anyone would say he had shot a few "elks," the plural of elk can be either elk or elks. Incidentally, I am not picking on you, honest, but my personal pet peeves include the all-too-common error of adding an apostrophe s in an attempt to make a word plural. I've seen it done on billboards, national advertising and TV networks. Bill Quimby Bill Quimby | |||
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Blacktailer: There are some animal names, such as deer, that are both singular and plural. Buffalo, impala, and eland are not among them. (Check your dictionary.) To make them so would be like someone saying "Goldilocks and the three bear," "the bird and the bee," "all the pretty horse," "multiply like rabbit," "those six cow," and "it's raining cat and dog." Can you imagine Dorothy and friends singing "Lion, tiger and bear" while skipping down that yellow brick road? To make it more confusing, although I doubt anyone would say he had shot a few "elks," the plural of elk can be either elk or elks. Incidentally, I am not picking on you, honest, but my personal pet peeves include the all-too-common error of adding an apostrophe s in an attempt to make a word plural. I've seen it done on billboards, national magazine ads, TV networks, and all over the place on internet forums. Bill Quimby | |||
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I wasn't stuttering. I duplicated the message while trying to delete a double byline. At any rate, don't blame writers or authors for things such as how plural names of animals are handled. Editors are paid to keep the text in their publications consistent, which means they should/must/will change what the author wrote if it differs from the publication's stylebook. Bill Quimby | |||
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My pet peeve is similar - the use of the word "its" vs "it's." "It's" means "it is." "Its" is possessive. But my all time pet peeve: writers who explain that a bullet hits high when fired up or downhill because its trajectory is only affected by gravity over the horizontal distance of flight. Wrong. If that were true, a bullet would go into orbit when fired straight up. A bullet fired uphill or downhill will impact high, but not for this reason. And the actual impact is far less in some cases than what the "horizontal theory" would predict. The farther the range and the lower the bullet BC, the worse this "answer" becomes. Nearly everyone who writes for mags outside of Precision Shooter and Varmint Hunter regurgitates this tale. | |||
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I look forward to shooting a few buffaloes someday! Kind of like all of the impalas I've hunted and shot. ~Ann   | |||
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Bill, When I first started to write I would always compare what I sent to what the editor published. It was (and is) a great way to learn to write better. | |||
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IMHO, one must not be a slave to the grammarians or the dictionary, but should instead trust one's ear - and traditional usage. "Buffaloes" is an insult to the ear, IMHO. To my ear, buffalo works fine as a plural - as in, "a herd of buffalo." Many of the greats of African writing and many contemporaries agree with that usage. Same with eland, kudu, elephant, wildebeest, impala and others. Lion is a tough one, as some times one must add the "s" for the plural, or it doesn't sound right or isn't clear. I always add an "s" for the plural form of leopard, just for clarity's sake. But that's never a problem in the field, since leopards are solitary animals! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Apostrophes with Pronouns To make a possessive of an indefinite pronoun, add an apostrophe plus s, just as you would for a noun. Examples: somebody's child another's idea Personal pronouns, including it, do not have any apostrophes for their possessives. Incorrect: her's their's your's Correct: his hers its ours yours theirs whose If it helps, remember that his takes no apostrophe. In the same way, neither do any of the other forms. The words it's and who's do exist, but they are contractions. It's means it is or it has; who's means who is or who has. | |||
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After spending time on AR, I find myself using the terms "Buf" and "Ele" most of the time!  | |||
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One of my pet peeves are the people who can't figure out how to delete their posts.......hint: it's done by hitting the "delete message?" button.....  or you could run a herd of buffali over it......I saw one of those the last time I shot an impalum.xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Incidentally, I am not picking on you, honest, but my personal pet peeves include the all-too-common error of adding an apostrophe s in an attempt to make a word plural. I've seen it done on billboards, national advertising and TV networks. Bill Quimby
Bill, you are a man after my own heart! That apostrophe business drives me nuts--the only thing that is worse is the misuse of "it's" to signify possession. The ONLY thing that "it's" means is "it is"--period! "Its" is the way to show possession, and "its' " does not exist in our language. I see "it's" used as a possessive in expensive magazine ads and even on billboards. Don't get me started on "Ten items or less" over the express lines in supermarkets! | |||
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Pondoro Taylor said in one of his books that the convention is to add the "s" for plural with non-dangerous game species, so that "lion," "buffalo" and so on are plural. "Impalas," I must confess, still sounds wrong. | |||
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In a country where the Prez can't pronounce Corpsman, I'm not going to throw stones! ________ Ray | |||
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As far as I'm concerned, on boards like this I don't worry too much about spelling, punctuation, or grammar. It strikes me as much ado about nothing, especially given a fair number of the posters don't speak english natively. I've long ago learned to let the young go- the current education system, along with "cultural" norms just proves they don't know (or could be made to care) any better. All that being said, I would say that the editors at these publications must either be really overworked or got their jobs through the writers version of the "casting couch". | |||
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Could it be that the fact is these stories are usually written by the people who had the hunt or adventure? Most are not professional writers but just people trying to tell their own stories. Lighten up a little. I am sure there are a lot of folks here who couldn't write a paragraph or two without some kind of jounalistic blunder, spelling or grammar error. Just look at some of such in the posts here on AR. I guess the editors could jump in and correct some of this, but I for one kinda enjoy hearing it from the common folks sometime in their own language. Or, maybe some of you who complain could volunteer to do the editing, since it seems so many here are such experts? Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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Larry: In the Bwana Moja safari dictionary--- the plural of cape buffalo is-cape buffalo... the plural of eland is-eland or elands, however eland is the preference for plural usage... the plural for impala is-impalas or impala with impalas as the preference for plural usage... the plural of lion is-lions...and you can't ever refer to a lioness as a lion. She must have her own identity... the plural for leopard is-leopards... the plural of elephant is-elephants... the plural of wildebeest is-wildebeests... the plural of kudu is-kudu or kudus with kudu as the preference for usage... the plural of sable is-sables... the plural of waterbuck is-waterbucks... Because deer is singular and plural us hunters have a tendency to throw the entire animal word under that same rule but it's not so cut and dry. The most egregious violation of all is buffaloes for the plural of buffalo. I throw a brick at the flat screen every time I hear the spoken violation on TV. Every week the garbage man wonders why there's a Samsung in his pile. | |||
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Larry, Where does one volunteer to proofread these manuscripts? Last time I looked at Safari magazine's byline they have a lot of editors. Somehow, I expect they are getting paid. Again, I don't get too worked up by a non-professional writer's errors as long as I understand what they said. Lord knows I've written some incomprehensible drivel here, but I'm not being paid. I will say I'm not slinging dirt at any of the authors- just the editors; like you said, I do enjoy hearing what people say in their own words. You should have some professional pride in what you do or turn out. | |||
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There's been lots of talk about how something sounds to "the ear." The only ears that count when it comes to magazines and books are the ears of the person or persons who establish the style for that particular publication. As an author, I can tell you that the editors of at least one well-known publishing house agree with most of you when it comes to using the singular of an animal name as its plural. I do not, and I cringe when I pick up a book that I've written and realize readers will think I've said someone has shot two bear, a herd of elephant ran by, there were six lion in the pride, or some such nonsense. However, each publishing house has its own style, like it or not. Even the "greats of African writing" had editors who made them conform to a style set by the publisher. I retired from my post as SCI's publications director eleven years ago, but I suspect little has changed since I left. Way more than half of the articles submitted by members had to be rewritten then, and not just to make them conform to Safari magazine's style. SCI's members were great sources of stories about hunting game animals few professional hunting writers even know about, but only a very few members wrote well enough to have their stuff published as they wrote it. Bill Quimby | |||
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Well I guess my beef is with the editor's. Its a shame  Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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 Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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The apostrophe is a tricky thing and indeed something that a lot of people feel strongly about: http://www.apostrophe.org.uk/ As for editors. Wasn't it John Steinbeck who wrote that 'Editors never like the taste of the soup until they've pissed in it' I can't remember where he wrote it but get an idea it was 'The Log From The Sea Of Cortez'Another one that might confuse people is when a surname ends in an s (esp if more that one of them) and and the posessive is also being used. Yet another common mistake is in the use of the words there, their, they're your or you're. All that said, I guess one could argue that English (whether English or American etc) is a living language and we're just a bunch of dinosours debating that the way we were taught when the world was in black and white is the way it should stay forever. We haven't even gotten onto the abortion of phone text messaging or the differences between English & American spellings yet. | |||
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Yep. Blame the editors, but also give them credit for keeping authors from making total fools of themselves. Some prolific and well-known authors are sometimes sloppy. I have first-hand knowledge that at least two revered gun writers (both now departed) were as close to being illiterate as anyone can be and still know how to write their names. Readers respected them only because they had good editors. I bought articles from one of them and rewrote them from start to finish; the other was so pompous that I wasn't interested in working with him. Bill Quimby | |||
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It should be the authors prerogative and not some dopey editor. If the "person" writing the story wants to call them a herd of buffaloes, so be it. I much prefer buffalo. On the other hand, if the story got changed from buffalo to buffaloes before it got published, then it is a problem with the editor, many of whom change stories to the point as to make it confusing, misleading, or contain down right lies. But of course it is always dismissed for some irrelevant reason, such as fitting it to the "allotted space" and making money. SCI magazine has not been the same for a very long time. Is that plain enough? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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The SCI Magazine as well as all other magazines fall into the same catagory as hunting videos and TV hunting shows. If you don't like how it is produced simply don't read it or watch them. Simple enough. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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I am not complaining at all about the writing in Safari. I love the fact the stories are written by hunters who generally paid for their hunts themselves. I get a little tired of seeing the same old bylines on Africa stories, although I will admit it is much preferred to hearing about a writer's "first African safari" (even though it is a plains game Namibia hunt). Most of those who write in Safari have more hunting experience (at least in Africa) than most writers. That means a lot to me. Stan Skinner at Safari is a good guy and knows what he is doing. I think it was Lefty Kreh who asked Hemingway to define really good writing. Hemingway paused and said, "It can't be edited." I must confess I am no Hemingway, and I am certainly not offended by changes. I have never heard of an editor bending the truth, but I hear jokes all the time from other writers, "Never let the truth affect the real story." | |||
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He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones. We all make mistakes, the mightiest and the lowliest amongst us. My rule is, if I can understand what they are saying/imparting, I could give a rats behind about errors in spelling, punctuation and like as they are minor annoyances in my life's path. Now hyperbole really gets my goat. | |||
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Actually, it all depends on what is being talked about. The singular form is the same as the plural form if all the animals are of the same species. If more than one species is being spoken of then the plural form is correct. For example, if you are speaking of yellow tuna you would say, "schools of tuna", "nets full of tuna", and "she smells like a lot of tuna". But if you were speaking of yellow tuna, albacore tuna, and bonito you would say, "schools of tunas", "nets full of tunas", and "she smells like a lot of tunas". If your dog rolls on a dead fish she will often smell like tuna. A herd of antelope is a herd of antelope unless there are different types of antelopes in the herd. In that case it is a herd of antelopes. If more than one species of antelope were to be found on "the range" then the Home On The Range song would go, "where the deer and the antelopes play". . | |||
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Walking down the trail, in the land of the dangling participle, I turned to my faithful tracker, Honest John, and quipped, "Its' plane to see, that these neophytes don't know where its at."  | |||
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Or perhaps the writers just had too many 'beers.' | |||
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Too busy Hunting and living to distress over the small stuff. . . . . . . And it's ALL small stuff. . . .  | |||
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Small stuff has to be perceived in terms of relativity. For a writer, a professional journalist, a wordsmith or a copy editor, a misspelled word is a very big deal. As a journalism professor at Northwestern I've given "F"'s to college students who've turned in manuscripts with one misspelled word. The political science professor may not have those same standards. In construction work or engineering it's the same thing. A craftsman or tile layer may have do re-do the entire job if he's off by one inch. Some might think one inch isn't that big of a deal. A rifle manufacturer has even more minutiae and "small stuff" to pay attention to. So you can't just dismiss bad grammar or spelling as overall small stuff. It's all relative based on our professions. Then there are some folks like ISS who are just way too anal about everything! | |||
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As a former editor and publisher, I can guarantee you that editing an article to make it fit available space, conform to the publication's style, clean up syntax, punctuation and spelling, or correct factual errors are not irrelevant reasons for changing what an author has submitted. The author always has the prerogative to sell his stuff elsewhere. Bill Quimby | |||
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I reckon Bill has it dead right. With magazines especially, readers tend to criticise the publication much more than the individual author. There is also the fact that the author can walk away and take his work elsewhere. Whereas the editor has to ensure the magazine stays in business. On a different but related subject, when for example a Brit is writing an article or a book, should he use English or American spellings? | |||
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Shakari, does he want to sell the book in America or Britain? Rich | |||
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