jstevens

Well said.

TerryR

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
RIP
This is a link you really need to read the sooner the better.

Aricept

Dr B

When in doubt, throw mud? Come on now, this was and is a sensible discussion....

Der Baby (Dr B),
Though the Aricept may not be doing much for your dementia, have faith and keep taking it. Your family at least benefits from hope that it will help you. At least it gives them SOMETHING to do to try to help you, besides changing your diaper and emptying your drool bucket regularly. A placebo-by-proxy is not totally without value.

jstevens
I agree. well said.
I am taking my wife to Zimbabwe this Oct. She is a good hunter and a good shot. I have explained to her the "African way". IE if you draw blood you pay for it.
I have also told her that most shots will be off hand, of off sticks, and may not be perfect.
We have a plan... If one of us shoots an animal, and it does not drop immediately the other is to follow up.
What could be more fun, we can both get in some shooting and share in the trophy.

Also since we are hunting with Donza, of Brooklands Safaris, who like me, likes to shoot elephants at 6 yards or less, sooner or later I think we will be in for a little bit of drama.
If the elephant does not do the traditional reaction to the principal shooters first two brain shots [double rifle of course ] then it is an ALL SKATE [ie everyone shoots].

To do anything else is a dis-service for the ANIMAL, not to mention for the safety of the entire hunting party.

Same applies for all other game.

If you hit the animal in a vital area, and he runs away the PH does not need to shoot.

However if the animal starts to run toward you, well, look at Waynes head, why take a chance???

Besides, the Ph needs to have some fun once and a while.

You let your wife out in the company of Donza

Thats a special animal all of it's own. Ask him how he's making out with sparkie! ( Her old man threw him out of the house which has left the whole town in awe of Louis! )

I will have to ask Donza about that.
I met his girlfriend and her family on my last trip, they seemed quite taken with him.
She is very sweet.
However I trust my wife... And Donza has seen me shoot.
So I do not worry.
After all there is some honor among thieves.

I must add, Donza is great fun to hunt with.
We had several false charges by cow elephants [and young bulls] on my last trip. If the elephant is 10 yards or farther away it is TOO FAR away to shoot.
He is an excellent PH. All of the plains game I shot were very good trophys.

We crawled up to 38 yards of 2 buff that were 43 inches. He would not let me shoot because they were a "little soft".

I had 2 buff on quota... I said "Donza, we are 38 yards away, Let me stand up and bang both of them...
He saiod "Too soft, crawl away....

Later, I shot a magnificant buff, but I WORKED FOR IT. He was spot on on every aspect of the hunt.
Plus he is a fun guy to be around, as is my videographer Ian Lewis.

I had a great time and a great hunt, which is why I am going back this Oct.

Since this thread is going all different directions, on my last buffalo (just back from Tanz) I hit the dugga-boy in the middle of Kevin R.'s triangle and it exited behind the other foreleg; then as it was going away, hit it in the butt with another 458 solid,which exited thru opposite shoulder blade. As it was going down at about 75 yds, the GAME SCOUT (age 24, first year) shot his SKS 7.62x39 at the buff!! He was a bit high and the PH and I saw the dust fly about 300 yd beyond the buff. All I could do was shake my head and smile. But game scouts are a whole 'nother story.

SGraves155,

Great anecdote! How about "Game Scout Rifles: The Unslung of the Unsung?"

I've only hunted with Gavin Rorke of Russ Broom but Rory Muil was in camp as was Peiter Benxxxxxxxxxxzeuit (spelling?) I saw one .500A2, one .500 3" NE, and one Ruger RSM .416 for the PHs.

Gavin's long time tracker, Teke, got into a candid photo taken by my Dad, sporting Gavin's G3, looking like a poacher with a big grin over my ele carcass. Gotta love those local jokers!

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
... Anyway, as they get set up on a buff, he see's the PH getting ready to fire and whispers to him- "shoot my buff and I don't pay for this safari!" ...

Few days later, they tiptoee up to ele in the jesse. Again, PH gets ready to back him, and agin come the prommise of not paying if the PH shoots his elephant.

Man,

I would have left the fucker there on his own in the bush!!!

Guav Johnson used a Win. Model 70 in .375 H&H last month when we were hunting buffalo.

Barrie Duckworth does use a Gibbs brand .505 Gibbs, but the primary backup is his old Mannlicher-Schoenauer .458 Win. Mag. His son Gary shoots a .458 Lott (and has a Westley Richards .470 double), while son Neil shoots a Westley Richards .470 double. Barrie does not just carry the .458 for backup on smaller stuff; he uses it most of the time (including my hunts) for elephant and buffalo. Barrie also starts shooting after the first shot if the dangerous game is close and moving or is headed off to places where recovery might be uncertain. I highly recommend all three of the Duckworths as well as the other PH's of Mokore Safaris. I am just a client that pays money to PH's, not a booking agent, so please don't accuse me of feathering my own nest.

Alister Norton, Zambia, custom built (by Trevor Proctor) .458 Lott on a mauser action. A beautiful rifle indeed!

John

Bobby Hansen (SA) a 375 H&H
Campbell Smith (Botswana mostly) 458 Lott
Craig Robinson (Zim) 416 Rem

...from firsthand experience...great guys all.

Gary

Claude Kleynhans (S.A. & TZ) uses a 458 Winchester Mag. in a post 64 push feed Winchester Model 70 Super Grade, with an original wood stock, and replacement iron sights. He shoots only solids.

Zimbabwe:
Theo Bronkhorst Sabi 500 Jeffery
Wayne Bartlett Brno 602 458 Win
Terry Anders 03 Springfield 458 Win
Johan Carinus CZ 550 416 Rigby

hello

just to add another name Robert J Montvoisin in CAR and zambia used PF mark V weatherby 460 wea ...
knew another french guy stephane used too a weatherby mark V 460 wea mag ...

Reading this thread reminds me that PHs have a tough job with some clients- e.g. if a PH put a shot in my animal, I would leave it in Africa kind of talk....

This next point may seem obtuse, but hopefully I will link it up:

A few weeks ago, coming back from a hunt in Namibia, and during the hour or so fuel stop in Senegal, a bunch of hunters were talking on the plane. I did not contribute, I only listened. One guy seemed pretty together, my type of guy. The other guy said that he shot a lion, a buff and a rhino on his hunt. As the details were examined, turned out, well, he really didn't shoot the rhino, but almost did.....and all was done in South Africa. Where, I wondered. I also figured a guy who just dropped ??? $25,000 plus on a hunt must love his hunting. Turns out, he says, he also got a lion and buff and rhino last year in RSA! Why was he flying economy class- with his cash? His stories didn't add up and everyone wandered off, ashamed for him, and feeling a little greasy for the experience.

Definitely not my type of guy. Obviously a bullshitter, and a complete tool to boot.

What's my point? Hunters, and internet posters, can say anything, or create any kind of personna they wish. In real life, and real hunting, they may be liars, or just plain oddballs- so why give credence to everyone equally? I don't think we should.

I can't imagine what the PHs would have said on each of my three DG hunts if I told them "you shoot, I don't pay". Most likely they would have said, ok, no DG for you bucko.

Crum if the PH thinks he should shoot, isn't it his professional call? If he does it inappropriately, then don't book with him again.
But basically, you are in his office when you hunt, and should rely on his judgment, whether it makes you uncomfortable or not, I think.

On non-DG, the PH will ususally only be shooting if you muck up the shot. Yes, this is uncomfortable, and no matter how much he says "oh, just making sure it went down" or other mollifying whispers, you, the hunter likely screwed up and he is saving your bacon.

Again, hope I wasn't too obtuse, but those who have been there, done that know, and the others, I guess, should keep quiet and learn, and not open their mouths and prove their true nature.

A P.S. on this airplane boaster-, he was ahead of me clearing his rifle at customs. After a long wait for him to figure out how to open his case, he discovered he picked up someone else's rifle, and that poor guy was filing a missing bag report.....as I said, what a tool.......

Recently completed my first Buffalo hunt in Tanzania, with total satisfaction. Got him good and no followup shot was required. He wasn't 41", but I didn't care. I got what I came for, in spades. Lifetime ambition, and all that.

But a hotshot group of hunters nearby who wouldn't listen, apparently, to anyone in the know, had wounded and lost a buffalo. So the whole time we're out poking around in the bush, we have to worry about some big bastard crashing out of the bush just because of someone else who wouldn't let his PH do a follow up and screwed the pooch.

Thankfully, I had a 100% hunt, got what I came for, made a friend for life out of my PH, Charles Horsley, (who hunts a .460, BTW) and everybody in my crowd was happy.

But Dr B, you hunt Africa and you're playing under a completely new set of rules, a set that you apparently are totally unfamiliar with, and until you do become familiar with them and agree to abide by them, stick to hunting elk.

Charles Horsley? Doesn't Wendell Reich book for him? Over on the AFrican-Hunter forum you posted regarding your hunt as well amd you are a member of the N Florida Chapter of SCI. So am I! Maybe we can join up at the next meeting. jorge

Gentlemen:
Dr. B first and, then you all made the last two pages of an excellent topic about him.
Can we all say," "?

What a total waste of bandwidth...

Ganyana, and others, thanks for a wonderful thread, and, great comments...



GS

quote:

Originally posted by kayaker:
Thanks all...

Anyone hunted with the French guys in Cameroon, Benin, CAR etc ? Eg Alain Lefol?
Cheers

Touffic Hanah 375HH

Herve Houdebine Merkel S/S 458Lott and my 460Wby

David Messiaen CZ 458Lott and Chapuis470Ne that I bought.

quote:

Originally posted by kayaker:

Anyone hunted with the French guys in Cameroon, Benin, CAR etc ? Eg Alain Lefol?

Lefol - Mark V in 460

Sean Kelly: .458 WM in a high end m70 or copy.

Doug Kok, Zimbabwe: well used FN 458 Win and CZ 375

Douw Pelser, S,Africa: a serious 458 Win fan

did someone get Joe Coogan? 458 Win and Lott and 416 Rigby.

Now, when is someone going to sit down and tabulate all of this?

458!

I did it once. Now it is your turn!

465H&H