quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:
That's why we call it hunting and not shooting :-)

Then why do we still call it hunting when someone knocks over an elk at 300+ yards..

I agree with you by the way..

I think people should use rests when they need them, but does anyone really need shooting sticks to hit a football sized target at 20 yards?!

Folks,

I've just reread this thread again and all the new comments since I made my post on the subject. I guess that I really didn't realize how many people hunt elephant for the adrenaline rush and not primarily for trophies or the "Old Africa" experience. I've never considered hunting as primarily a test of my metal but I guess for some it is what hunting and particularly elephant hunting is apparently about. I guess there's nothing wrong with that but it does make the fascination with cow elephants and PAC bulls a litte easier to understand for me at least. Previously I thought people shot non-trophy elephant because it was so expensive to hunt trophy bulls and they thought a non-trophy might be their only chance to kill any elephant period. Also I thought that some folks just like to kill stuff and body counts are an important part of hunting to some. All this maybe true of a few but the rush seems to be the real driving factor in pursuing any elephant regardless of trophy quality at very close range for a large percentage of experienced, novice or wanna be elephant hunters.

To those adrenaline junkies please have at it and God bless you. For me I'll take the first responsible shot presented on any animal. If I need sticks that is fine and I will always be using my scope regardless of range. I always try to take advantage of whatever help is handy in making the best shot I am capable of. Somehow I just can't fault myself for this philosophy.

BTW the 2 elephants I shot were at close range for me at under 30 yards. I did not use the sticks but did of course use my scope. In either case to have gotten closer would have risked alerting the elephant that we were there and could have caused a lost opportunity or an unecessary dangerous situation.

Mark

Mark,

Like Little Mattie said in True Grit, "Who knows what's in a man's heart?"

I started hunting cows because they were cheaper than bulls. I figured considered experience was more important than ivory.

As you know there are some that cannot wait to tell you constantly how many elephants they have killed. Why they have hunted elephants, who knows?

It is almost a religious experience for me and I'd hate to cheapen it by comparing scores.

But to each their own.

Maybe a thread on "Why I hunt elephant!" is appropriate.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Why they have hunted elephants, who knows?

It is almost a religious experience for me ...

Does that mean that elephant hunting puts the fear of God into you?

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I can understand how shooting an elephant at close range is exciting, how getting charged is exciting, etc.

You may decide it's more excitment than you want when an elephant really chases you, you trip over your bootlace or whatever and get a tusk in your chest.

So be it.When one hunts in the land of the giants and fxcksup,then one gets what fate dishes out.
If some hunters can choose their level of risk/exposure to danger by having backup at short range instead of hunting solo, then surely others are free to choose 120yd shots.
No, 120yd shots arent as challenging/dangerous/exciting as it could be, but having backup at close range aint as dangerous as it could be either.
Lets face it, theres is some diffence between hunting "dangerous game" and "dangerous" game hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:

So be it.When one hunts in the land of the giants and fxcksup,then one gets what fate dishes out.
If some hunters can choose their level of risk/exposure to danger by having backup at short range instead of hunting solo, then surely others are free to choose 120yd shots.
No, 120yd shots arent as challenging/dangerous/exciting as it could be, but having backup at close range aint as dangerous as it could be either.
Lets face it, theres is some diffence between hunting "dangerous game" and "dangerous" game hunting.

Woodjack, certainly there is choice involved here, but it is not whether to have a back-up, and/or hunt Elephant solo! We'd all like to walk all over Africa hunting solo,but anyone who would think it is a choice, simply doesn't know the rules!

The back-up, and hunting with a PH, are mandated by law, if you're not a resident! The choice is to get close, and not take a chance on wounding such a magnificent animal as a bull Elephant,and maybe get squashed by one of the Askaris, or to be selfish , and pot shoot him from 200 yds, takeing a chance of wounding him and allowing him get away, and die a lengering, painfull death, and maybe kill some poor local, who isn't even aware he is in the area, before he dies! We're not talking about snipeing whitetail deer accross a bean field, here!

Besides all that, the ele may never be found, and 10,000 pounds of meat,for the local people, and the ivory is lost, while you still have to pay the substantual trophy fee!

Talk is cheap till the area is filled with elephant, and you are in the middle of a pile of your own crap, and you can't even see where the PH is, if he hasn't been already flattened by one of the Askaris! Then tell me your safe because a PH has a rifle!

Haveing a back-up is certainly no guarintee you will get out without being shipped home in a coffee can!

Let's face it, there "IS" some difference between HUNTING, and SNIPEING anything.

Gentlemen,

I think we are taking the word "dangerous" in hunting dangerous game too seriously.

I am not sure about some of you, but, in my instance, I honestly have not felt in any sort of danger while hunting - excitement, yes, but danger, no.

We have been chased by elephants on a number of occasions, got in the middle of a herd of buffalo in very long grass they were passing 5 yards away from us, and had a lioness charge us until she got a few yards before she stopped.

The only thing I fear while hunting is falling into a hole and breaking my leg, or worse getting bitten by a snake.

I had my close calls with these too, but, luckily haven't gottena scratch yet.

As Walter keeps saying; "you do too many stupid things, and God feels sorry for you so he protects you"

Obviously God has got the same feelings towards him, as he seems to do himself so much bodily harm.

He broke his toe last week running up the stairs in his own house. I got the blame for that as he was running to answer my phone call!

I wonder if all this isn't a bit "academic". Has anyone here actually shot an elephant say over 70 metres away? Please speak up.

"In hunting big game, facing danger is the height of the hunting ethic. Any bloody fool can, without encountering the smallest modicum of risk, murder a bull elephant at 200 yards with a lung shot. This is not elephant hunting, but elephant killing. Yet, to walk for a week, thirsty and footsore over hot, dry, thorn-spiked terrain, disapppointed a dozen times by small or broken tusks, frightened witless by the female of the species or seemingly unshootable bulls, and then finally to track down a big tusker in heavy cover for a confrontation at less than fifteen yards-well, that is elephant hunting. That is man against himself, the last and purest of the challenges that made us men, not animals.
Peter Hathaway Capstick
Naples, Florida
April,1977

quote:

Originally posted by mufasa:
"In hunting big game, facing danger is the height of the hunting ethic. Any bloody fool can, without encountering the smallest modicum of risk, murder a bull elephant at 200 yards with a lung shot. This is not elephant hunting, but elephant killing. Yet, to walk for a week, thirsty and footsore over hot, dry, thorn-spiked terrain, disapppointed a dozen times by small or broken tusks, frightened witless by the female of the species or seemingly unshootable bulls, and then finally to track down a big tusker in heavy cover for a confrontation at less than fifteen yards-well, that is elephant hunting. That is man against himself, the last and purest of the challenges that made us men, not animals.
Peter Hathaway Capstick
Naples, Florida
April,1977

I enjoy reading Capstick, but, I think before he can lecture anyone on how to hunt, he should have at least tried to tell the truth about his own "hunts".

As a story teller, he was very good, as a PH, I gather one would have been very generous to call him "mediocre"

As many of you know I love to hunt elephants....
And I like to get close.
To me that is the essance of elephant hunting.
Of the 7 elephants I have taken 4 have been under 6 yards, one at 12 yards, one at @45/50 yards, and one at 122 yards.

All first shots have been brain shots except for the one bull elephant at 122 yards.

All have been with iron sighted double rifles.

The one at 122 yards was a 55 lb bull that we had been tracking for 3-4 hours, We had seen him 2 other times close up [under 25/30 yards but the angle was wrong for a sure shot.

When I did see him he was just fixing to walk out of view. He knew we were there and was about to take off.

I fired 2 body shots with my 450 No2, a low heart shot, the other shot breaking the leg.

He stopped in his tracks, spun all the way around and came straight for us.

He went about 3 body lengths and fell down. I ran toward him and as he stood up I brained him from around 50 to 55 yards.
It was very exciting. Especially when the Ph said " He's comming"...... "HE COMES!!!"
All of this is on video.

Would I have rather shot him inside 10 yards or less, for me yes.

However, I feel when you are hunting Ivory you take the shot you have if you can make it.

On cows however 12 yards has been my longest shot.
On my Oct/Nov hunt I had several oppertunities to shoot a cow elephant from a distance of 20 yards to A 45 yards, when they were down into some thick riverine bush. We were asbove them and it was so thick a man could not walk around down there.

I declined to shoot, because I was there to hunt cow elephants, not just shoot them.

No one else has to do it my way, it is your hunt, do it the way you like, you will not get any criticism from me.