Ladies and Gentlemen,

On a recent trip to Africa, I was at Afton Guest House and had dinner with a first timer (who was there to hunt RSA plains game).

When he asked me about my experiences in Africa, he was particularly interested in elephant. He was surprised that most elephant are shot at very close range.

He asked, "Why do you need to be so close to elephant for the shot?"

Honestly, I didn't have an answer for him.

So it caused me to think about it (a dangerous event - according to my wife).

If I can shoot a crocodile at 70 yards (brain the size of a golf ball, or spine shot the size of the palm of my hand) - why not shoot an elephant at 120 yards (heart/lung the size of a dinner plate, or brain shot the size of a rugby ball)?

Just wondering?????

Regards,

Terry

P.S.
Honestly, the most excited/scared I have ever been was 30 yards from my bull elephant when I pulled the trigger. Nothing like it. To this day, elephant at that range scare the Hell out of me. Definitely my most vivid African hunting experience.

Not that I have hunted or even want to hunt ele but it wouldn't be hunting DG if done at 120yds or from a baaki for that matter. While you may or may not be able to hit a golf ball at 100yds, the distance does bring variables into it that shooting inside 30yds would mimimize.

quote:

Honestly, the most excited/scared I have ever been was 30 yards from my bull elephant when I pulled the trigger. Nothing like it. To this day, elephant at that range scare the Hell out of me. Definitely my most vivid African hunting experience.

I think you may have answered your own "why not 120 yds question.

Have shot 3 Elephants all under 30yds. Don't really know what would be wrong with shooting from longer range. In no case was I given the option. The PH said get that close we got that close. The heart does go pitty pat at close range no mistaking that. I personally get the same feeling shooting an Eland or a Kudu (my favorite game animals) or most plains game. The rush is the same. It's not fear cause I am ABSOLUTELY afraid of snakes and get a totally different response from close contact with them. Seems to me it's just another one of those 'AFRICAN' things, you get close to Elephants before you shoot. No real reason just tradition because it's ALWAYS been done that way.

As one without experience I submit this, being within the "range" of an elephant or other dangerous beast has to be thrilling and frightening.

If the beast decides the best thing to do in the next few seconds is the try to kill YOU, you better be able to stop that from happening.

At 120 yards, that is just not part of the equation.

I think if I had invested in a hunt for a given DG animal, and I had hunted hard through the days,

and it was the last day, and it was my only shot, and I had the right rifle, and the PH said it was O.K....

I'd take a shot that I strongly believed would be a FAST KILL, otherwise

One reason is that it is a lot easier for the PH to put in a back up shot with his open sighted Trex killer at short range if you muff the shot.

465H&H

That's why we call it hunting and not shooting :-)

I like that:

That's why we call it hunting and not shooting.

Oh, my aching back!

Your best shot at an elephant is the heart/lung shot, but seeing that elephant haul ass is not a very reasuring feeling whether the shot was in the right place or not.

The brain shot is, IMO, best for a host of reasons (see the book!). And to make sure you can hit the brain you need to be close.

I agree with Terry that being knee deep in elephant can be sh*t-a** scary situation, but that's the name of the game.

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Lwhy not shoot an elephant at 120 yards (heart/lung the size of a dinner plate, or brain shot the size of a rugby ball)?

1. Because the excitement is in getting close.

or

2. Because we would all think you are a wimp.

I think I see Terry's original point and what made him question his answer in the conversation.

Why just elephant? Why is it only a necessity to take an elephant or a buffalo at "hot breath" distance? How come African hunters aren't considered wimps if they don't shoot their lions, leopards or dry land hippos at under 20 or 30 yards?

Because it's risky or stupid? It seems like the next steps in macho hunting are obvious. Shoot your elephant at 20 yards, a dry land hippo at 10, how about a leopard at 5 and your lion with the muzzle up it’s left nostril.

How about if we start an SCI category for short distance of a DG kill?

I like to think I’m as “fair chase†and chasing the adrenaline rush as much as the next guy, but maybe it's a slippery slope of logic between getting really close for elephants and going full MS mentality.

Just a thought.

Kyler

So, who among us wouldn't drop a hundred pounder at 120 yards, if it was then or never?

Speak now or forever hold your piece (unfired).

Closer is most definitely better, IMHO.

But a shot is a shot and a long shot is better than no shot, if that is all there is.

Gentlemen,

I see absolutely nothign wrong with shooting an elephant at 120 yards.

So far, the furthest I have shot an elephant was about 60 yards, and the closest was about 12 yards.

Example one: Imagine you have started following elephants at sun rise, and managed to catch up with them by midday. It took you another hour or 2 to get into a position to be able to take a shot at the bull you have in mind.

Because of the wind, and the available cover, there is no way you can get any closer than 120 yards. You shoot it. Total time taken 8 hours.

Example two: You are driving along, and suddenly you see a good bull standing 200 yards from the truck. You and your PH jump out of the truck, get as close to the elephant as 20 yards and shoot it. Total time taken less than 10 minutes.

Which one of the above would you consider as a real hunt?

Getting close to your elephant is a big part of the memory of the hunt.

A hunter who posted here in the past shot an elephant at 100+ yards in Zimbabwe. I think the tusks went 68 and 69 pounds.

Getting close is part of the tradition of elephant hunting that so many of us want to experience. The most important aspect of any trophy is the hunt that led to the kill.

Jason

I think somewhere along the way someone got confused.

As I understand it, elephant frequently are in very thick brush where, despite there size, they disappear. In this instance, you are going to have to get very close to the elephant to see and shoot it.

There was also a time, the golden age of elephant hunting, where elephant was plentiful and firearms not as powerful, accurate or as dependable as we use today. Also, there weren't all the rules about not hunting with anything less than .375 caliber, etc. In using a marginal weapon, close was probably necessary for adequate penetration and precise shot placement.

The legends of manly men shooting elephant from close range has percolated down through the decades until it is now thought that:

1. Shooting an elephant at long range (in this case defined at over 30 yards) probably won't work.

2. Shooting an elephant at long range isn't sporting.

3. Shooting an elephant at close range is the only way to get excitement from an elephant hunt.

In my opinion, it makes no sense. If you can get excited shooting a pronghorn antelope at 200 to 400 yards, why can't you get excited shooting an elephant at the same distance? I thing a bit of room between the elephant and hunter makes a lot of sense.

If you get as excited shooting pronghorn at 200yds as you do at the prospect of closing on an elephant, you shouldn't be elephant hunting.

In the case of shooting trophy ivory, I'm not sure I wouldn't take a longer shot, as MrLexma implies.

The best thing about non trophy elephant hunting is that the only trophy is your memory, so you can make an approach as close as you wish without risk of spooking the ele and loosing your trophy!

And yes elephants are often in the thick stuff and can be amazingly hard to spot, but then you will see them watering in the open or feeding on a hillside where a long shot could work.

Close is more exciting, and thats the whole point in (non trophy) elephant hunting. Plinking non trophy elephants is just useless and expensive to boot. But for the once in a lifetime trophy ivory, well, I'm not so sure.

JPK

I agree with Mike. Whatever shot that you are presented with that you and the PH think is doable should be the one you take. When Johan Calitz's client a couple of years ago saw that 97 pounder walk across the boarder into the hunting area and he just shot it do you think he even gave a fleeting thought to the fact that he had not tracked the elephant for hours or made the shot at a matter of feet? Of course not. It was a gift and he took it. In my opinion stalking to where you can smell an animals breath is not necessary nor prudent in alot of cases particualrly when you could have made a responsible shot at longer range.

Mark

Apples and oranges getting all mixed up, as usual.

But the further they are away the more likelihood of a non-killing shot.

A wounded elephant can go a long, long way. Forever.

Trophy fees are near and dear to me!

The largest elephant shot by a white man received the first bullet at 80 yards. Cotton Powell did an understandable mess of the killing, but was it unsporting?. How do you react to a 200-plus pounder walking out of your life?

Does it have to do with the history of elephant killing, where the shooter was using 7X57 or 30-06 where precision in shot placement was imperative. As years went on it became the thing to do. I agree with the hunting vs shooting i e 50 yds vs 400 yds.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The brain shot is, IMO, best for a host of reasons (see the book!). And to make sure you can hit the brain you need to be close.

Sums it up pretty much.

As for shooting a hundred-pounder at 120 metres, wouldn't one feel a goose when you loose the trophy of a lifetime (lifetimes actually) wounded.

I would think most good PHs would have a problem with a client taking a long range shot at elephant too.

The first PH I hunted with also said, "we get close to elephant, to make the hunting more challenging as they aren't hard to hunt".

What do the gentlemen (and ladies) here think about that comment?

There is nothing wrong with takeing a 120 yd shot on an elephant, if that is what is presented, and that is what floats your boat! It wouldn't even get my boat off the trailer!

I really don't get much excitement from shooting things like deer, and African plains game. All mine have been targets of opertunity, while hunting Buffalo, or other DG! I guess I'm not qualified to comment on Ele hunting, because I've fired exactly two shots into the heart/lung area of a 65 pounder, as back-up for a friends botched brain shot. A botching he quickly remedied with a second shot to the base of the skull as the Ele turned to run away, droping him in a cloud of dust.

Though that wasn't my ele, he was CLOSE,at about 10 yds, and looked like a skyscraper, and giveing me a memory I will take to the grave! So owning the Ivory is not what gets my blood running.

I guess what I should have posted is a simple statement instead of a story. That statement is, Dangerous game is not dangerous game at 120 yds, and I don't see the point, if you are a dangerous game hunter. The difference, to me is, the same as the difference in snipeing, which is only dangerous to the target, and close combat, which is dangerous to both target and shooter.

If you are simply a collector, then do your thing, at even longer range!

120 yards would have been impossible where we used to hunt them since you usually couldn't see farther than 12 to 15 yards. Clients were encouraged (like in "told") to shoot in the lung area. It sometimes took quite a while to identify where that was! You looked at pieces of the beast and hopefully put the puzzle together. My wife once shot one through the ear thinking it was the lung area. Wrong puzzle piece! In that thick forest it also took awhile to ascertain if the ivory was acceptable.
Rich Elliott

Why shoot an elephant at 30 (or 10 or 20) yards? Because you can. I'd be very proud to be able to make a 70-yard brain shot on a croc. Whereas I would feel like I cheated myself if I took this shot on an elephant.

Each animal and situation offers us different opportunities and experiences, and for me the unique draw of elephant hunting is the hours of tracking culminated by an exciting and close [brain] shot. I am not sure that one "NEEDS" to shoot them close, as the gentleman asked, but one should WANT to. I could not justify the cost of an elephant hunt if I knew I had to snipe the animal. I'd rather leverage my other talents and physical capabilities to get close.

I just had this scenario present itself just last week on a mtn mule deer hunt, I passed on a ~400-yard shot and was rewarded by getting him the next day at ~150 yards. I was in the mountains versus the prairie because I did NOT want to have to take/make a long shot, and unlike a caribou in August (~420 yards on a 420-class B&C critter), I had my heart set on getting to within reasonable distance of the mule deer. I hunt elephant in the early-season jess versus more open country elsewhere or later in the year for the very same reason.

Fortunately we all have the right to make our own decisions given the quarry and situation, and draw the lines where WE deem fit.

Question by NitroX,

quote:

The first PH I hunted with also said, "we get close to elephant, to make the hunting more challenging as they aren't hard to hunt".

What do the gentlemen (and ladies) here think about that comment?

I agree that elephants are not hard to approach to close range (if you keep the wind in your face). They don't seem to hear well or possibly don't pay to much attention of what they do hear. It always surprises me how non-chalant the PHs are when approaching elephants as far as noise or movement is concerened. You wouldn't get into the same county with a smart old whitetail deer or elk using that technique.
Since we should want to dispatch our animals in the quickest and most humane way, it makes sense to get as close as you can within safety considerations.

465H&H

Hunting trophy elephant in savanah is one thing, and no one would pass up a big ivory bull. Take the shot if you have a rifle capable. But hunting elephants in the thick jesse, where clear visibility is never more than 10-15 yards. No heart-lung shots here, you want frontal brain or nothing. Also want the elephant close so you can see the head. Actually, thats the thrill of the hunt plus the stalking. Shooting a stationary croc at 70 yds is challenging, but not exciting.
Any elephant within 15 steps is exciting,

Dak

quote:

I agree that elephants are not hard to approach to close range (if you keep the wind in your face). They don't seem to hear well or possibly don't pay to much attention of what they do hear. It always surprises me how non-chalant the PHs are when approaching elephants as far as noise or movement is concerened

They, the Elephants make such a damn noise feeding they cannot hear anything else

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The brain shot is, IMO, best for a host of reasons (see the book!). And to make sure you can hit the brain you need to be close.

Huh? You need to be close to hit a target the size of a rugby ball?

It sounds like most here does what is expected of them. You would not pay thousands of dollars to shoot a elephant 200 yards away..

I for one have shot animals at long distance... Would I shoot a hundred pounder at 120, in a flash...
But I do like to track them down and get upclose and personal...Much better

Mike

The brain may be the size of a rugby ball - actually its much smaller when cut and exposed, but the size of the target you must hit on the outside to get to the brain is much smaller and can be difficult to pinpoint.

JPK

One of the things I found especially interesting and exciting about elephant hunting was sneaking up as close as we could, and even into the cow herds (although this did end up in us getting mock charged, and charged) . And I found this so much fun that I passed up quite a few shots for several days so that we could do more stalking before I took a shot. Shooting an elephant (even a trophy bull) at 120 meters would not be for me.

If I had to choose between these two situations below, it would be an easy choice IMO.

(Some ele in the Serengeti, TZN at about 100+ meters)


(A bull we came across while walking in Mana Pools, Zimbabwe. The picture was taken at about 6-7 meters before the bull backed down.)


There is no doubt in my mind which of these 2 elepant encounters I found most interesting and challenging.

getting close is what makes elephant hunting fun, my longest shot was a side brain shot at around 55 yards, i couldnt get closer and it was a good elephant and didnt want to lose it but it wasnt that much fun as far as a hunt goes. The closer the better.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The brain shot is, IMO, best for a host of reasons (see the book!). And to make sure you can hit the brain you need to be close.

Huh? You need to be close to hit a target the size of a rugby ball?

Try placeing a rugby ball behind a 3 ft thick bail of cotton, laced with a few 10" think bones, with no aiming point on the front, then place it ten ft above your eye level,at 120 yds, and see how easy it is to hit that rugby ball!


That is not the point, however, with me! I simply don't consider dangerous game to be dangerous at 120 yds. Even if I could hit the brain every time, it's just not for me.

I can understand how shooting an elephant at close range is exciting, how getting charged is exciting, etc.

You may decide it's more excitment than you want when an elephant really chases you, you trip over your bootlace or whatever and get a tusk in your chest.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I can understand how shooting an elephant at close range is exciting, how getting charged is exciting, etc.

You may decide it's more excitment than you want when an elephant really chases you, you trip over your bootlace or whatever and get a tusk in your chest.

Ain't it the truth.

Until an ele comes to step on you, all the rest is cheap talk.

Yep!

Rich Elliott

Would all of you stalk a brown bear, get 15 feet infront of it, then shoot it? Or does it only apply to the african dangerous game?

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
Would all of you stalk a brown bear, get 15 feet infront of it, then shoot it? Or does it only apply to the african dangerous game?

Nortman,

What you say is implying that all dangerous animals have the same behaviour. This is of course incorrect. So compairing an elephant to a brown bear is like compairing apples and oranges.

Yes, I shot my Kodiak bear at 25 yards, and a African Lion at 35 yards. That is the extent of my Dangerous game hunting. I would not have wanted to do it any other way. Recently I was watching a TV show of a hunter shooting a Brown Bear that was accross a river. This could still be a dangerous sitsuation if the hunter blew his shot, and wounded the bear. However, I could only think that the hunter cheated himself, and for that matter the bear bye not getting closer. You might as well hunt antilope, or elk if you want long shots. Nothing wrong with this I enjoy hunting antilope very much. When you hunt any dangerous game at close range you learn alittle something about yourself.