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January 5, 2018

Texas hunter seeks to import trophy of critically endangered black rhino


Media Contact: Thaisi Da Silva: 202-578-6767, tdasilva@humanesociety.org

Only two months after global controversy erupted over US imports of elephant and lion hunting trophies, a wealthy Texan has applied for a permit to import a trophy from his killing of a critically endangered black rhino from Namibia.

The Humane Society of the United States and Humane Society International are calling on the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to deny this and any other import permit applications to hunters who want to kill and import trophies of the world’s last remaining black rhinos.

The Ministry of Environment and Tourism of the Republic of Namibia, jointly with two pro-trophy hunting lobby groups, the Dallas Safari Club Foundation and Conservation Force, quietly auctioned off the killing of the rhino in December 2016 for $275,000. The Texas hunter killed the rhino on February 27, 2017 at the luxury Veronica Game Lodge, operated by ARU Game Lodges, Namibia. ARU is a hunting outfitter which will exhibit it at the largest U.S. trophy hunting convention, hosted by Safari Club International in Las Vegas, in February 2018.

Masha Kalinina, international trade policy specialist at Humane Society International, said: “We call on the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to support the conservation of critically endangered black rhinos by keeping them alive, and not permitting trophy hunters to kill them and import gruesome ‘prizes’ into the United States. Allowing trophy hunters to kill black rhinos will take a severe toll on their populations, already under immense pressure from poaching.”

Fewer than 5,500 black rhinos remain in the wild, and only 1,946 live in Namibia. Four years ago, a Texas millionaire and TV personality, Corey Knowlton, paid $350,000 to kill a black rhino in Namibia. The price tag for this rhino trophy may be as high or higher.

The animals are seriously threatened by poaching, which doubled in Namibia from 2013 to 2015. In 2015, poachers there killed 90 rhinos compared with one to four per year from 2006 to 2013. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has opened a 30-day comment period on this import application, seeking input from the public.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has initiated a 30-day public comment period. HSI and The HSUS urge members of the public to make their voices heard by submitting comments here.

WTF is with the 30 day comment period?

It’s either legal to import or it’s not.

Governing by poll is ridiculous.

Perhaps we should all take the time to comment in the appropriate place as to how the fees from this hunt HELPS conserve the remaining rhino.

Here is the link to comment from the article...

https://www.regulations.gov/co...HQ-IA-2017-0095-0001

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Perhaps we should all take the time to comment in the appropriate place as to how the fees from this hunt HELPS conserve the remaining rhino.

And who do you think is going to listen to you?

This what I have been saying all along regarding CITES animals.

ANY ANIMAL hunted under CITES rules nd issued with a permit should not be second guessed by the importing country!

For whatever good it does here is the comment I submitted.


Comment: I feel that the permit should be issued for the importation of the Black Rhinoceros trophy. Rejecting it accomplishes nothing as far as conservation of the species is concerned. Look at the numbers of animals being poached with 0 funds being returned to help in conserving the remaining population of the species. The money spent by the hunter to take this animal went directly into efforts to conserve the remaining population.

What is really accomplished by denying the permit since the animal was legally killed and is no longer part of the gene pool for that species.

Submitted my comment just now.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/p...ari-clubs-convention


Link has a 3 1/2 minute news video.



Controversy surrounds Dallas Safari Club convention

By: FOX4News.com Staff
POSTED: JAN 05 2018 10:42AM CST

VIDEO POSTED: JAN 05 2018 09:39PM CST

UPDATED: JAN 05 2018 09:42PM CST

DALLAS - As the Dallas Safari Club holds its annual convention this weekend, it's in the middle of a controversy involving a North Texas hunter.

Denison billionaire Lacy Harber paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in a safari club auction for a permit to hunt a black rhino in Namibia and now wants to bring it to the U.S. According to the World Wildlife Foundation, there are just over 5,000 black rhinos in the wild.


Animal rights activists were out at the convention protesting Friday afternoon. They argue the practice of hunting endangered animals is cruel and unnecessary.




But conservationists say the money raised from the hunts actually goes towards helping to grow the species population.

Cheryl Amanda drove from her home in Crowley to protest outside the safari club convention. She and others oppose the killing of animals like the black rhino.

According to a permit filed with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Harber paid $275,000 in an auction with the Dallas Safari Club to hunt a black rhino in Namibia last year. Harber wants to bring that rhino home.

“Bringing back corpses from another country is disgusting, on the one hand, and totally unnecessary on the other,” Amanda said.

But an attorney for Harber says the rhino is not critically endangered and the population is growing every year thanks to conservation efforts funded by money paid by hunters like Harber.

“They have over 3,000 rangers in private lands to protect the rhino,” explained John Jackson, Harber’s attorney. “And somebody's gotta pay for it.”

Jackson is also the chairman of the Conservation Force and is defending his client's right to hunt.

“Hunts do two things: they get rid of bad rhino, this particular rhino had killed seven others, and increase the population growth rate,” the attorney said. “You do that by getting younger bulls in there and eliminating bulls that are killing others.”

The Dallas Safari Club says money raised from hunting goes towards efforts to conserve and also to fight poaching.

“We fund projects for needed research to better understand life requisites of certain species so that they can be more sustainably managed and conserved,” explained Corey Mason with the safari club.

Conservationists also argue they need to intervene in order to protect the species, but animal rights activists disagree.

“They can fund conservation efforts in ways that are life-affirming and that help animals to survive,” Amanda said.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will continue taking public comments on this issue until February 5. At last check, nearly 300 comments had already been submitted — many against allowing the hunter to take the black rhino back into the U.S.

Harber’s attorney says they expect a decision shortly after that within the next 45 to 50 days.

If enough people take a stand it can be done, doing nothing never works...A politicial bends to the wind, or else he won't get voted back into office... The antis know this and that's why they get things done.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
For whatever good it does here is the comment I submitted.


Comment: I feel that the permit should be issued for the importation of the Black Rhinoceros trophy. Rejecting it accomplishes nothing as far as conservation of the species is concerned. Look at the numbers of animals being poached with 0 funds being returned to help in conserving the remaining population of the species. The money spent by the hunter to take this animal went directly into efforts to conserve the remaining population.

What is really accomplished by denying the permit since the animal was legally killed and is no longer part of the gene pool for that species.

The problem with this argument is that there is still a fatal flaw, one dead critically endangered black rhino is one too many. Denying hunting tags and import permits for black rhino will 100% prevent these animals being killed 'legally'. The other part of the fatal flaw is proving just how much poaching is prevented with use of the 'conservation funds' however they are garnered.

If I was on the other side I would want to see cold hard facts (numbers) as to how many rhino are saved or by how much the total herd is increased by use of these funds. All we hear about is the continuing downward spiral of certain endangered animals toward extinction outside of zoos, farms etc.

If we hunters are so enamored with preserving the environment and animal species why do we not donate much more of our discretionary funds instead of shooting endangered species?

If the Texas hunter who shot the black rhino truly believes that his money, whatever he paid at auction and whatever he paid on the actual hunt (all discretionary spending for him), is going to help preserve the rhino population in the wild, would donating that money not be a better outcome? He himself cannot physically supervise the spending of his money or take part in operations in the field to prevent poaching therefore the use of his money is out of his control but if he had of donated and refrained from shooting there would have at least been one more rhino left even if his donated money did no good at all.

If he did not donate and hunt, would this have had any effect on the rhino population? What are the cold hard supporting facts?

At the moment they are that a rich Texan, often stereotyped and self promoted who like to do things bigger and better than anyone else, has spent thousands of dollars to kill a critically endangered animal to hang on the wall for bragging rights.

Is it really such a surprise that perhaps in years to come hunting and maybe ownership of firearms by the ordinary populace could be banned in many countries.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Perhaps we should all take the time to comment in the appropriate place as to how the fees from this hunt HELPS conserve the remaining rhino.

And who do you think is going to listen to you?

This what I have been saying all along regarding CITES animals.

ANY ANIMAL hunted under CITES rules nd issued with a permit should not be second guessed by the importing country!

They may or may not listen but at least we tried.

At least he did something which is a whole lot better than sitting around bitching about someone else’s response.

Agreed!

quote:

The problem with this argument is that there is still a fatal flaw, one dead critically endangered black rhino is one too many. Denying hunting tags and import permits for black rhino will 100% prevent these animals being killed 'legally'. The other part of the fatal flaw is proving just how much poaching is prevented with use of the 'conservation funds' however they are garnered.

There is one thing for certain, if those of us that care for the future of hunting do not speak up once the poachers finish the various species off, those of us that did speak up can at least say We Tried and did not just roll over and play dead.

Hunting is going to be lost because too many hunters really do not care anymore and have given up. That is DAMN sad!

I also believe that we need to do our part.

The Anti hunter are alive and well and posting up a storm.

My Comments that I submited:

I would ask that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service support the conservation of critically endangered black rhinos.

Namibia is allowed to issue permits to hunt Black Rhino’s in their country. Just like the United States issues permits for Big Horn Sheep.

The hunter from Texas purchased one of Namibia permits. The Namibia Game department identified Black Rhino’s that were past their prime for the hunter to try and take. We are talking about older non-breeding animals, in fact when the hunter went to locate one of the Black Rhino that was on the approved list, this Black Rhino had died of old age days before. Therefore, another Black Rhino on the approved list was sought for the hunter to pursue.

The proceeds from the Black Rhino Permit is used to partially fund the Namibia game department, just as game license fees do in the United States for State Game Departments.

Please support this application to import the trophy of a black rhino from Namibia.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
At least he did something which is a whole lot better than sitting around bitching about someone else’s response.

Larry you are ABSOLUTELY correct!

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana338:
The proceeds from the Black Rhino Permit is used to partially fund the Namibia game department, just as game license fees do in the United States for State Game Departments.

Well there we go now, using the argument that the funds generated from hunters go towards the worthy cause of managing wildlife and hopefully saving some of the endangered species. Now just how much is meant by "partially fund"? 50%, 10% or 2% with the rest in someone's private bank account.

Yes absolutely the anti-hunter is alive and posting up a storm but one thing for sure is that they are not stupid and naive.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
At least he did something which is a whole lot better than sitting around bitching about someone else’s response.

But did he do the right thing or just compound the issue and give more ammunition to the anti-hunters.

And do you honestly care whether future generations have the ability to hunt anything or are you only worried with your future ability to hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
And do you honestly care whether future generations have the ability to hunt anything or are you only worried with your future ability to hunt?

I think in the case of the 'Texan Ranger' he only cared for having a trophy on the wall that most others today haven't.

How about the the news value if that hunter had won the auction and then asked that the tag be cancelled and also made a donation on top of what he paid at auction to cover the expenses of the outfitter/PH and all those whose wages would have been derived from the hunt.

Personally I don't imagine there was an ounce of conservation thought in the Texan's mind when he purchased that tag. he'll have his lawyers on the job to make sure that trophy hangs on his wall no matter what.

One to four rhinos per year killed by poachers in the period 2006 to 2013, 90 rhinos killed in 2015. How's that showing the antis that hunters funds are saving endangered species. That is the fatal flaw in our argument. Shooting a critically endangered animal no matter how old and feeble it may be is just plain fueling the fire. We just don't get it do we!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana338:
The proceeds from the Black Rhino Permit is used to partially fund the Namibia game department, just as game license fees do in the United States for State Game Departments.

Well there we go now, using the argument that the funds generated from hunters go towards the worthy cause of managing wildlife and hopefully saving some of the endangered species. Now just how much is meant by "partially fund"? 50%, 10% or 2% with the rest in someone's private bank account.

Yes absolutely the anti-hunter is alive and posting up a storm but one thing for sure is that they are not stupid and naive.

Now Eagle, As an anti hunter what presentage of your money goes to the preservation of wild life or does your money go into personal perks, big parties or some bank account. You do not care about wildlife!

I'm not an anti hunter, I have hunted and shot as much if not more game than many, continue to do so and in earlier times shot game for money, obviously in a country and climate where that was the norm for many.
Even if I had all the money in the world I have no inclination to shoot any endangered animal, sadly adding to that leopard, lion, elephant and giraffe which may or may not be endangered. It is just a hiding to nothing to inflame the anti-hunters.

At the end of the day it will become a numbers game, those with the most support will have their way. After all hunting is no longer a necessity for man, it is a pastime, sport, hobby or whatever else we may call it. I truly hope that my sons and grandchildren, some just beginning to hunt, will be able to freely partake of this past-time and I'm sure at least in my country, the tradition will continue. I am not so sure that it will in many other countries.

One thing for sure I am not going to do is create or inflame situations that feed the anti-hunters or those in the general populace who can be swayed to support them.

Killing one of 5500 black rhinos left in the world to have a trophy hanging on the wall in Texas is sure as hell one way to inflame a situation that is developing and will reach a flash point quite soon I fear.

Time will tell.

Brother, you miss the most obvious points. It costs money, real money, to protect and conserve rhino. Where does that money come from?

It is a fairly well established fact that older rhino become belligerent. They attack and often kill other rhino. I believe that the authorities have established that this particular rhino killed quite a number of other rhino.

So money was raised specifically for rhino conservation. A rhino was removed from the herd that was killing other rhino. Only the most blind would not see this as a positive for the rhino.

The fact that more rhino were poached does not mean the program is not working. We do not know how many would have been poached without this program.

As far as the hunters motives, I have no idea. Regardless, I have a really hard time concluding this is bad for the rhino.

If we stop every activity they inflames the opposition, we might as well give up now.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Brother, you miss the most obvious points. It costs money, real money, to protect and conserve rhino. Where does that money come from?

It is a fairly well established fact that older rhino become belligerent. They attack and often kill other rhino. I believe that the authorities have established that this particular rhino killed quite a number of other rhino.

So money was raised specifically for rhino conservation. A rhino was removed from the herd that was killing other rhino. Only the most blind would not see this as a positive for the rhino.

The fact that more rhino were poached does not mean the program is not working. We do not know how many would have been poached without this program.

As far as the hunters motives, I have no idea. Regardless, I have a really hard time concluding this is bad for the rhino.

If we stop every activity they inflames the opposition, we might as well give up now.

And let us not forget the simple fact that if it was not economically feasible, no rhinos would be alive today too.

Someone should explain the simple fact of economics to the idiots.

Do they really thing we would have so many cows, pigs, sheep and chicken if they were not economically viable??

quote:

Originally posted by robncolorado:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
At least he did something which is a whole lot better than sitting around bitching about someone else’s response.

Larry you are ABSOLUTELY correct!

Exactly. The anti's always win because hunters will sit on their hands, complain about somebody doing something because it wasn't to their liking and than lament about what happened after its all gone.

If any of you have a better idea than step up do it! Hunting and wildlife has only survived this long because somebody worked to make it happen. Maybe there was a better way to go about it but at least one person stood up and DID SOMETHING!

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
And do you honestly care whether future generations have the ability to hunt anything or are you only worried with your future ability to hunt?

I think in the case of the 'Texan Ranger' he only cared for having a trophy on the wall that most others today haven't.

How about the the news value if that hunter had won the auction and then asked that the tag be cancelled and also made a donation on top of what he paid at auction to cover the expenses of the outfitter/PH and all those whose wages would have been derived from the hunt.

Personally I don't imagine there was an ounce of conservation thought in the Texan's mind when he purchased that tag. he'll have his lawyers on the job to make sure that trophy hangs on his wall no matter what.

One to four rhinos per year killed by poachers in the period 2006 to 2013, 90 rhinos killed in 2015. How's that showing the antis that hunters funds are saving endangered species. That is the fatal flaw in our argument. Shooting a critically endangered animal no matter how old and feeble it may be is just plain fueling the fire. We just don't get it do we!!!!

Eagle,
While lecturing of “cold hard facts” to others...why don’t you sir...adhere to your own advice. Here, you are stereotyping Lacy...throwing around monikers like “Texas Ranger.” The truth is that Lacy and his wife are kind, decent, and generous people. I don’t know him well but have met him and he is a good friend of a very good friend of mine.

Lacy puts his trophies in a very nice museum about 30 miles from my home. It is open to the public and is very well kept. He sponsors Boy Scout Troops trips to be able to come and visit the museum.

Lacy is thought very well of in our neck of the woods and is known to be a very low-key generous gentleman.

Advice to you sir: If you are going to lecture others on “cold hard facts” and “doing the right thing”...maybe first you should get facts before writing and give “doing the right thing” a try by not stereotyping people.

I have posted a response. I only have my phone. When I get home, I will try and post it.

On another note, the head of the USFWS was wondering around DSC yesterday. He had his picture taken with a Canadian outfitter who had a Trump sign in his booth.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
And do you honestly care whether future generations have the ability to hunt anything or are you only worried with your future ability to hunt?

I think in the case of the 'Texan Ranger' he only cared for having a trophy on the wall that most others today haven't.

How about the the news value if that hunter had won the auction and then asked that the tag be cancelled and also made a donation on top of what he paid at auction to cover the expenses of the outfitter/PH and all those whose wages would have been derived from the hunt.

Personally I don't imagine there was an ounce of conservation thought in the Texan's mind when he purchased that tag. he'll have his lawyers on the job to make sure that trophy hangs on his wall no matter what.

One to four rhinos per year killed by poachers in the period 2006 to 2013, 90 rhinos killed in 2015. How's that showing the antis that hunters funds are saving endangered species. That is the fatal flaw in our argument. Shooting a critically endangered animal no matter how old and feeble it may be is just plain fueling the fire. We just don't get it do we!!!!

Eagle,
While lecturing of “cold hard facts” to others...why don’t you sir...adhere to your own advice. Here, you are stereotyping Lacy...throwing around monikers like “Texas Ranger.” The truth is that Lacy and his wife are kind, decent, and generous people. I don’t know him well but have met him and he is a good friend of a very good friend of mine.

Lacy puts his trophies in a very nice museum about 30 miles from my home. It is open to the public and is very well kept. He sponsors Boy Scout Troops trips to be able to come and visit the museum.

Lacy is thought very well of in our neck of the woods and is known to be a very low-key generous gentleman.

Advice to you sir: If you are going to lecture others on “cold hard facts” and “doing the right thing”...maybe first you should get facts before writing and give “doing the right thing” a try by not stereotyping people.

I met Lacy in an elk camp in Utah shortly after 9/11. The one and only time I ever met him. I forget how long we were there. Several days. Honestly, I had absolutely no idea he was this wealthy. He was not, at least in camp, some loud mouth blow hard bragging about how rich he was.

By the time, if it ever comes, that hunters grow up enough to willingly/openly turn their collective backs and walk away from the lines of division that we have allowed ourselves to create over our own personal beliefs concerning how hunts should be conducted and who is or isn't a
"REAL" hunter, it will be too little/too late and it may already be that way.

The people trying to bring an end to hunting will not be placated with concessions made by hunters trying to save what they believe is real hunting, those working to stop hunting want it all stopped.

They are not going to rest until they achieve that goal and hunters simply CAN NOT set aside their personal beliefs and provide a united front.

If you look back through the history of evolution species come and go. People need to accept that fact.

As rhinos (and polar bears, etc) habitat shrinks and more people come into contact and are maimed or killed, something has to give.

All the tree huggers rhetoric in the world is no consolation to a father or mother who has had their child gored and stomped into mush by a bad tempered rhino.

Taking out the most aggressive of the species is the only way to save them, and even then it might be too late.

BH63

What the bunny huggers do not understand, because they are not directly affected, is that the folks that live in the areas where those animals do, do not care if those animals become extinct they are only concerned with the safety of their families and livestock.

And in all actuality that may be the answer and the reason why the antis are so vocal in their opposition.

The indigenous people are merely trying to survive where as the sport hunter makes the conscience decision to go out and hunt ban animal down and kill it just to be able to claim they did.

I never really looked at it that way until just now, but in the minds of those wanting to stop hunting, maybe it is a case of they do not really care about the survival of the species, whether it is exterminated by poachers or indigenous people protecting their families and livestock as long as it is not a "Sport Hunter" doing the killing.

Funny I had not viewed it that way before, but the survival of the various species is not what the anti's are concerned with but the controlling of other peoples activities is their goal.

Call me a Dumbass.

CHC:

You are correct to a certain extent. While they most certainly want to do away with hunting, the ultimate goal is more far reaching. It depends on which group it is. At MINIMIM, they want to make us all vegans. At maximum, they want the extinction of the human race. Yes, one group openly advocates this.

I guess it was driving around today checking on deer camps and sipping on a few beers that made me think that direction.

Those folks really do not care about wildlife nor the survival of the human race.

To me the downside however is that hunters, as a group, cannot set aside their personal beliefs long enough to try and unite.

Eagle

It's totally irrelevant what Lacy's motivation was in killing the rhino. The point is a lot of money went to rhino conservation. I'd bet though that he wanted the rhino as I would if I could afford it and the funds going to conservation were a very nice side benefit. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I think in the case of the 'Texan Ranger' he only cared for having a trophy on the wall that most others today haven't.

How about the the news value if that hunter had won the auction and then asked that the tag be cancelled and also made a donation on top of what he paid at auction to cover the expenses of the outfitter/PH and all those whose wages would have been derived from the hunt.

Personally I don't imagine there was an ounce of conservation thought in the Texan's mind when he purchased that tag. he'll have his lawyers on the job to make sure that trophy hangs on his wall no matter what.

One to four rhinos per year killed by poachers in the period 2006 to 2013, 90 rhinos killed in 2015. How's that showing the antis that hunters funds are saving endangered species. That is the fatal flaw in our argument. Shooting a critically endangered animal no matter how old and feeble it may be is just plain fueling the fire. We just don't get it do we!!!!

I don't really care what his motives are. However, if he had done that then the old bull that had already killed seven other Black Rhino would still be killing any young bulls that challenged him.

quote:

Do they really thing we would have so many cows, pigs, sheep and chicken if they were not economically viable??

Ha! I have said that many times, including a letter to the editor of USA Today, which was published some years ago. I said the same thing in my comment, which I submitted before reading the rest of the thread.

I also said HSUS was free to bid on the permit as well but chose not to.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
And do you honestly care whether future generations have the ability to hunt anything or are you only worried with your future ability to hunt?

I think in the case of the 'Texan Ranger' he only cared for having a trophy on the wall that most others today haven't.

How about the the news value if that hunter had won the auction and then asked that the tag be cancelled and also made a donation on top of what he paid at auction to cover the expenses of the outfitter/PH and all those whose wages would have been derived from the hunt.

Personally I don't imagine there was an ounce of conservation thought in the Texan's mind when he purchased that tag. he'll have his lawyers on the job to make sure that trophy hangs on his wall no matter what.

One to four rhinos per year killed by poachers in the period 2006 to 2013, 90 rhinos killed in 2015. How's that showing the antis that hunters funds are saving endangered species. That is the fatal flaw in our argument. Shooting a critically endangered animal no matter how old and feeble it may be is just plain fueling the fire. We just don't get it do we!!!!

Eagle,
While lecturing of “cold hard facts” to others...why don’t you sir...adhere to your own advice. Here, you are stereotyping Lacy...throwing around monikers like “Texas Ranger.” The truth is that Lacy and his wife are kind, decent, and generous people. I don’t know him well but have met him and he is a good friend of a very good friend of mine.

Lacy puts his trophies in a very nice museum about 30 miles from my home. It is open to the public and is very well kept. He sponsors Boy Scout Troops trips to be able to come and visit the museum.

Lacy is thought very well of in our neck of the woods and is known to be a very low-key generous gentleman.

Advice to you sir: If you are going to lecture others on “cold hard facts” and “doing the right thing”...maybe first you should get facts before writing and give “doing the right thing” a try by not stereotyping people.

Lane, I don't need to stereotype Texans, they are well known for having done that themselves, usually quite willingly. No doubt, like many others who have made a lot of money through business and hard work, Lacy likely does donate a lot to worthy causes just as he could well have done in this case without killing a black rhino. if it was a problem animal it could have been quietly culled like many PAC animals are without paying hunters involved.

Obviously we wouldn't be having this discussion if the whole affair hadn't blown out, now did no one see that coming!!!!

Nevertheless each to his own and I truly hope many of you guys will still be able to hunt in the future, I just see it so pointless to needlessly hasten what maybe inevitable in some countries.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
On another note, the head of the USFWS was wondering around DSC yesterday. He had his picture taken with a Canadian outfitter who had a Trump sign in his booth.

Excellent observation, Larry.

It's a completely different issue to the ivory question, because isolated instances like this aside, there is no legal rhino horn trade. The only questions are whether it was legally hunted, which it was, and whether it has a CITES export permit, which it will have. Pacelle needs to be sued for the cost of the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
And do you honestly care whether future generations have the ability to hunt anything or are you only worried with your future ability to hunt?

I think in the case of the 'Texan Ranger' he only cared for having a trophy on the wall that most others today haven't.

How about the the news value if that hunter had won the auction and then asked that the tag be cancelled and also made a donation on top of what he paid at auction to cover the expenses of the outfitter/PH and all those whose wages would have been derived from the hunt.

Personally I don't imagine there was an ounce of conservation thought in the Texan's mind when he purchased that tag. he'll have his lawyers on the job to make sure that trophy hangs on his wall no matter what.

One to four rhinos per year killed by poachers in the period 2006 to 2013, 90 rhinos killed in 2015. How's that showing the antis that hunters funds are saving endangered species. That is the fatal flaw in our argument. Shooting a critically endangered animal no matter how old and feeble it may be is just plain fueling the fire. We just don't get it do we!!!!

Eagle,
While lecturing of “cold hard facts” to others...why don’t you sir...adhere to your own advice. Here, you are stereotyping Lacy...throwing around monikers like “Texas Ranger.” The truth is that Lacy and his wife are kind, decent, and generous people. I don’t know him well but have met him and he is a good friend of a very good friend of mine.

Lacy puts his trophies in a very nice museum about 30 miles from my home. It is open to the public and is very well kept. He sponsors Boy Scout Troops trips to be able to come and visit the museum.

Lacy is thought very well of in our neck of the woods and is known to be a very low-key generous gentleman.

Advice to you sir: If you are going to lecture others on “cold hard facts” and “doing the right thing”...maybe first you should get facts before writing and give “doing the right thing” a try by not stereotyping people.

Lane, I don't need to stereotype Texans, they are well known for having done that themselves, usually quite willingly. No doubt, like many others who have made a lot of money through business and hard work, Lacy likely does donate a lot to worthy causes just as he could well have done in this case without killing a black rhino. if it was a problem animal it could have been quietly culled like many PAC animals are without paying hunters involved.

Obviously we wouldn't be having this discussion if the whole affair hadn't blown out, now did no one see that coming!!!!

Nevertheless each to his own and I truly hope many of you guys will still be able to hunt in the future, I just see it so pointless to needlessly hasten what maybe inevitable in some countries.

Spoken like a true idiot stereotypist who has likely spent little to zero time in Texas.