quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I agree with some of the statements herein. I disagree with some. Others I have absolutely no clue what the author means. That is more than likely my problem and not theirs.

If I move, hypothetically speaking, $50,000 into my checking account to wire money to pay for trophy fees and other costs, I know that $50,000 is going to be there. If I set aside $50,000 of Bitcoin, I have absolutely no idea what it will be worth when it comes time to move it. It might worth more. It might be worth less. Look at the history of Bitcoin. There are some sudden and severe movements both up and down.

This makes me question the use of it in the industry.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
Just to clarify a couple of things.

Earlier in this thread, crypto was called a store of value. That can be the case but crypto comes in many forms.

Store of value- Bitcoin and some other crypto like it would fall in this category. There will only be 21M bitcoin ever mined so it is limited, unlike fiat that will continue to be printed. You can believe in bitcoin or not. I did an unscientific survey at the end of last year to a group of about 50 young professionals I was speaking to. I believe eight of them had bitcoin. Exactly zero had any gold or silver. At some point our generation might ask itself who will be the buyers of our gold and silver if we ever sell. I have a family member in his 30's who is into crypto. Most of his friends are into crypto. It is amazing how many have seven, eight and even nine figure net worth's at this age. None of his friends own gold or silver. The younger generation is looking at bitcoin as gold or silver without the high transaction costs, storage issues and as a way of having assets anywhere in the world at the snap of a finger.

Start up companies- Many crypto companies are start ups that provide a product or service. Chainlink would be an example.(ironically, one of the things Chainlink is doing is upgrading and securing the SWIFT system) Instead of going through the various rounds of early financing then going public which can make the early investors extremely rich, these companies go directly to the crypto market to raise funds. This gives the average person the opportunity to invest in startups with a great idea. This is how many young people are getting extremely rich. Thus my earlier statement of buying quality companies like Amazon, Google, etc. were 20 years ago. Realize, most crypto companies are crap!

Stable coins- There is crypto that will mimic currencies. USDT and USDC being the most used. If you make foreign transactions in stable coins, I don't see it triggering a taxable event, but I am definitely not a Chartered Accountant. As Larry mentioned, if you pay in bitcoin and have a gain then you have a taxable event, just as if you sold stocks to pay for the safari. What you don't have is multiple transactions.

The beauty of crypto is the blockchain. This is an open ledger backed up on tens of thousands of computers/servers all over the world. If I send $20,000 of USDC from my account ABC, to Larry's account, XYZ. The transaction is probably recorded thousands if not tens of thousands of times. These ledgers have also verified that I have the $20,0000 of USDC in my account to pay Larry with. If the transaction confirms, Larry is assured the funds are now in his account. The entire world knows the transaction between these two accounts took place. They don't know who the owners of these two accounts are or anything other than $20,000 of USDC moved between ABC to XYZ.

Because Larry had this transaction with me, he will know that my account number is ABC. He could actually send money there if he wanted to but he has no access to getting money out of my account. He would have to know my password which could be 24 words (words not characters). Will computers be able to break 24 word encryption at some point. Possibly but it may be awhile and there will probably be better ways to secure an account by then. It is always good to have multiple crypto accounts. If you think trophy fees will run $30,000 but you may take the lion if it is better than any you have previously shot, you might transfer $60,000 to the crypto account you will use to pay trophy fees.

Most countries in the world are talking about digital currencies. We will probably all be dealing with digital currencies, whose transaction will be just like crypto, within five to ten years. These will be fiat currencies that will be open to being debased. Many countries will do what they can to crush crypto. They might be able to but at this point it would be close to impossible to do it world wide.

This year in Canada, truckers and those that helped truckers had their bank accounts frozen without due process. Think about that, a western democracy stopped citizens from being able to buy food, pay heating bills, buy gasoline to get to work, pay a mortgage, etc. all without due process! Is it good to have access to fungible assets that only you can access and no one in the world can stop you from accessing?

In no way am I an expert on crypto. Just an old dog trying to figure out a new trick before I get left too far behind. Perhaps something I have said above is off a bit. Please feel free to correct me if I have misspoken. Hope I have clarified a couple of things for some. Is crypto volatile? Definitely. Will people loose money in crypto? Definitely. Most people our age probably aren't investing a lot of their money in startups anyway. As I mentioned earlier, holding some bitcoin as an insurance policy against fiat is probably not a bad idea. Just buy with plans to hold indefinitely.

PS: Someone mentioned that a transaction fee on $20,000 was $400-$700. It could be that high I guess if a person wasn't paying attention. It can also be easily in the range of the cost of a wire. I made a significantly larger transaction a few months ago for under $10. Transaction prices are going down fast and will probably be in the cents within a couple of years.

The $400-$700 is the daily $ vol holding a asset ($20k worth of Bitcoin) that fluctuates between 2.25 to 3.5 percent a day.

These are all the drawdowns in Bitcoin

https://www.visualcapitalist.c...from-all-time-highs/

Anyone booking or paying for a hunt 3-6 months out better figure out with PH who will bear the upside or downside of transacting in a highly volatile asset.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
Just to clarify a couple of things.

Earlier in this thread, crypto was called a store of value. That can be the case but crypto comes in many forms.

Store of value- Bitcoin and some other crypto like it would fall in this category. There will only be 21M bitcoin ever mined so it is limited, unlike fiat that will continue to be printed. You can believe in bitcoin or not. I did an unscientific survey at the end of last year to a group of about 50 young professionals I was speaking to. I believe eight of them had bitcoin. Exactly zero had any gold or silver. At some point our generation might ask itself who will be the buyers of our gold and silver if we ever sell. I have a family member in his 30's who is into crypto. Most of his friends are into crypto. It is amazing how many have seven, eight and even nine figure net worth's at this age. None of his friends own gold or silver. The younger generation is looking at bitcoin as gold or silver without the high transaction costs, storage issues and as a way of having assets anywhere in the world at the snap of a finger.

Start up companies- Many crypto companies are start ups that provide a product or service. Chainlink would be an example.(ironically, one of the things Chainlink is doing is upgrading and securing the SWIFT system) Instead of going through the various rounds of early financing then going public which can make the early investors extremely rich, these companies go directly to the crypto market to raise funds. This gives the average person the opportunity to invest in startups with a great idea. This is how many young people are getting extremely rich. Thus my earlier statement of buying quality companies like Amazon, Google, etc. were 20 years ago. Realize, most crypto companies are crap!

Stable coins- There is crypto that will mimic currencies. USDT and USDC being the most used. If you make foreign transactions in stable coins, I don't see it triggering a taxable event, but I am definitely not a Chartered Accountant. As Larry mentioned, if you pay in bitcoin and have a gain then you have a taxable event, just as if you sold stocks to pay for the safari. What you don't have is multiple transactions.

The beauty of crypto is the blockchain. This is an open ledger backed up on tens of thousands of computers/servers all over the world. If I send $20,000 of USDC from my account ABC, to Larry's account, XYZ. The transaction is probably recorded thousands if not tens of thousands of times. These ledgers have also verified that I have the $20,0000 of USDC in my account to pay Larry with. If the transaction confirms, Larry is assured the funds are now in his account. The entire world knows the transaction between these two accounts took place. They don't know who the owners of these two accounts are or anything other than $20,000 of USDC moved between ABC to XYZ.

Because Larry had this transaction with me, he will know that my account number is ABC. He could actually send money there if he wanted to but he has no access to getting money out of my account. He would have to know my password which could be 24 words (words not characters). Will computers be able to break 24 word encryption at some point. Possibly but it may be awhile and there will probably be better ways to secure an account by then. It is always good to have multiple crypto accounts. If you think trophy fees will run $30,000 but you may take the lion if it is better than any you have previously shot, you might transfer $60,000 to the crypto account you will use to pay trophy fees.

Most countries in the world are talking about digital currencies. We will probably all be dealing with digital currencies, whose transaction will be just like crypto, within five to ten years. These will be fiat currencies that will be open to being debased. Many countries will do what they can to crush crypto. They might be able to but at this point it would be close to impossible to do it world wide.

This year in Canada, truckers and those that helped truckers had their bank accounts frozen without due process. Think about that, a western democracy stopped citizens from being able to buy food, pay heating bills, buy gasoline to get to work, pay a mortgage, etc. all without due process! Is it good to have access to fungible assets that only you can access and no one in the world can stop you from accessing?

In no way am I an expert on crypto. Just an old dog trying to figure out a new trick before I get left too far behind. Perhaps something I have said above is off a bit. Please feel free to correct me if I have misspoken. Hope I have clarified a couple of things for some. Is crypto volatile? Definitely. Will people loose money in crypto? Definitely. Most people our age probably aren't investing a lot of their money in startups anyway. As I mentioned earlier, holding some bitcoin as an insurance policy against fiat is probably not a bad idea. Just buy with plans to hold indefinitely.

PS: Someone mentioned that a transaction fee on $20,000 was $400-$700. It could be that high I guess if a person wasn't paying attention. It can also be easily in the range of the cost of a wire. I made a significantly larger transaction a few months ago for under $10. Transaction prices are going down fast and will probably be in the cents within a couple of years.

The $400-$700 is the daily $ vol holding a asset ($20k worth of Bitcoin) that fluctuates between 2.25 to 3.5 percent a day.

These are all the drawdowns in Bitcoin

https://www.visualcapitalist.c...from-all-time-highs/

Anyone booking or paying for a hunt 3-6 months out better figure out with PH who will bear the upside or downside of transacting in a highly volatile asset.

Mike

Many people conflate crypto and bitcoin. Bitcoin is the largest most valued of thousands of different coins that make up crypto. The OP was talking about crypto and that is how I have been responding in my posts. Your example is in bitcoin. I'm not exactly sure how you are getting your numbers for the cost of transferring bitcoin but I will post a couple of articles regarding bitcoin that discuss pricing.

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/...gh-transaction-fees/

A Guide to Saving on Bitcoin's High Transaction Fees
The average bitcoin transaction fee is $23. Luckily, there are ways to cut costs.
By Alyssa Hertig



https://dailyhodl.com/2021/09/...n-2000000000-in-btc/

Bitcoin Wallet Charged $0.80 in Fees To Transfer More Than $2,000,000,000 in BTC
Daily Hodl Staff September 14, 2021

Despite 44,598 BTC being moved, a mere 0.00001713 BTC fee was incurred – amounting to less than a dollar.
Feb 26, 2021 at 2:31 p.m. CST
Updated Sep 14, 2021 at 7:18 a.m. CDT

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Crypto is backed by the full faith and credit of a bunch of computers scattered alll over the globe. And how do you mine something made up of nothing but ones and zeroes on a computer monitor?? Of course it doesn’t consume any energy, right??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Trusting in crypto is like employing a pedo to baby sits your children!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
We old dogs can mock it all we want. There was a Dan Akroid / Chevy Chase skit called "We Mock What We Don't Understand", LOL.

https://makeagif.com/gif/we-mo...nt-understand-d81rq7

But one of my son's friend's invested a small amount in Bitcoin several years ago. If I have my numbers correct, he invested about $1,500 at the time. He's been up and down since then but as of today, he's worth well over 7 figures due to the investment.

He has commissioned us to build his new house. The house is just over $500,000 and he is a cash buyer. No, we aren't taking Bitcoin for the project. He converted what he needed for the house to dollars prior to us starting.

Now if you REALLY want to get into a discussion of volatility, let's talk about the price of lumber these days!

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I think I'll just open an account in a bank in Dar or Arusha. Seems to make sense at this point. I'll save on wires.

Not sold on crypto, but if the money is already there, I don't have to worry about the $10,000 limit or security issues for having that much cash in hand.

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
Just to clarify a couple of things.

Earlier in this thread, crypto was called a store of value. That can be the case but crypto comes in many forms.

Store of value- Bitcoin and some other crypto like it would fall in this category. There will only be 21M bitcoin ever mined so it is limited, unlike fiat that will continue to be printed. You can believe in bitcoin or not. I did an unscientific survey at the end of last year to a group of about 50 young professionals I was speaking to. I believe eight of them had bitcoin. Exactly zero had any gold or silver. At some point our generation might ask itself who will be the buyers of our gold and silver if we ever sell. I have a family member in his 30's who is into crypto. Most of his friends are into crypto. It is amazing how many have seven, eight and even nine figure net worth's at this age. None of his friends own gold or silver. The younger generation is looking at bitcoin as gold or silver without the high transaction costs, storage issues and as a way of having assets anywhere in the world at the snap of a finger.

Start up companies- Many crypto companies are start ups that provide a product or service. Chainlink would be an example.(ironically, one of the things Chainlink is doing is upgrading and securing the SWIFT system) Instead of going through the various rounds of early financing then going public which can make the early investors extremely rich, these companies go directly to the crypto market to raise funds. This gives the average person the opportunity to invest in startups with a great idea. This is how many young people are getting extremely rich. Thus my earlier statement of buying quality companies like Amazon, Google, etc. were 20 years ago. Realize, most crypto companies are crap!

Stable coins- There is crypto that will mimic currencies. USDT and USDC being the most used. If you make foreign transactions in stable coins, I don't see it triggering a taxable event, but I am definitely not a Chartered Accountant. As Larry mentioned, if you pay in bitcoin and have a gain then you have a taxable event, just as if you sold stocks to pay for the safari. What you don't have is multiple transactions.

The beauty of crypto is the blockchain. This is an open ledger backed up on tens of thousands of computers/servers all over the world. If I send $20,000 of USDC from my account ABC, to Larry's account, XYZ. The transaction is probably recorded thousands if not tens of thousands of times. These ledgers have also verified that I have the $20,0000 of USDC in my account to pay Larry with. If the transaction confirms, Larry is assured the funds are now in his account. The entire world knows the transaction between these two accounts took place. They don't know who the owners of these two accounts are or anything other than $20,000 of USDC moved between ABC to XYZ.

Because Larry had this transaction with me, he will know that my account number is ABC. He could actually send money there if he wanted to but he has no access to getting money out of my account. He would have to know my password which could be 24 words (words not characters). Will computers be able to break 24 word encryption at some point. Possibly but it may be awhile and there will probably be better ways to secure an account by then. It is always good to have multiple crypto accounts. If you think trophy fees will run $30,000 but you may take the lion if it is better than any you have previously shot, you might transfer $60,000 to the crypto account you will use to pay trophy fees.

Most countries in the world are talking about digital currencies. We will probably all be dealing with digital currencies, whose transaction will be just like crypto, within five to ten years. These will be fiat currencies that will be open to being debased. Many countries will do what they can to crush crypto. They might be able to but at this point it would be close to impossible to do it world wide.

This year in Canada, truckers and those that helped truckers had their bank accounts frozen without due process. Think about that, a western democracy stopped citizens from being able to buy food, pay heating bills, buy gasoline to get to work, pay a mortgage, etc. all without due process! Is it good to have access to fungible assets that only you can access and no one in the world can stop you from accessing?

In no way am I an expert on crypto. Just an old dog trying to figure out a new trick before I get left too far behind. Perhaps something I have said above is off a bit. Please feel free to correct me if I have misspoken. Hope I have clarified a couple of things for some. Is crypto volatile? Definitely. Will people loose money in crypto? Definitely. Most people our age probably aren't investing a lot of their money in startups anyway. As I mentioned earlier, holding some bitcoin as an insurance policy against fiat is probably not a bad idea. Just buy with plans to hold indefinitely.

PS: Someone mentioned that a transaction fee on $20,000 was $400-$700. It could be that high I guess if a person wasn't paying attention. It can also be easily in the range of the cost of a wire. I made a significantly larger transaction a few months ago for under $10. Transaction prices are going down fast and will probably be in the cents within a couple of years.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
I know next to nothing about crypto currency. I did spend a little time on-line doing research. My research led to more questions than answers. But I did take away a few things. Safety of storing crypto currency. Transferring funds via crypto seems fairly strait forward. Thus, it would seem to me a safe way to pay outfitters without having to carry large sums of cash. Another convenience would be not having to use a bank to transfer funds.
Perhaps somewhere down the road a seminar at the hunting conventions might be in order. What are folk's thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I think I'll just open an account in a bank in Dar or Arusha. Seems to make sense at this point. I'll save on wires.

Not sold on crypto, but if the money is already there, I don't have to worry about the $10,000 limit or security issues for having that much cash in hand.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
We old dogs can mock it all we want. There was a Dan Akroid / Chevy Chase skit called "We Mock What We Don't Understand", LOL.

https://makeagif.com/gif/we-mo...nt-understand-d81rq7

But one of my son's friend's invested a small amount in Bitcoin several years ago. If I have my numbers correct, he invested about $1,500 at the time. He's been up and down since then but as of today, he's worth well over 7 figures due to the investment.

He has commissioned us to build his new house. The house is just over $500,000 and he is a cash buyer. No, we aren't taking Bitcoin for the project. He converted what he needed for the house to dollars prior to us starting.

Now if you REALLY want to get into a discussion of volatility, let's talk about the price of lumber these days!

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I hear what everyone is saying, but this makes no sense. I can only carry $10,000 of cash when I leave the country, but I can't have a foreign bank account? That is ridiculous. I need more than $10,000 overseas.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I think I'll just open an account in a bank in Dar or Arusha. Seems to make sense at this point. I'll save on wires.

Not sold on crypto, but if the money is already there, I don't have to worry about the $10,000 limit or security issues for having that much cash in hand.

Best check into the reporting requirements for a US citizen owning a foreign bank account. The rules are staggering. One can easily be in serious trouble quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I hear what everyone is saying, but this makes no sense. I can only carry $10,000 of cash when I leave the country, but I can't have a foreign bank account? That is ridiculous. I need more than $10,000 overseas.

quote:

Originally posted by Kingsview Safaris:
We accept Crypto currency as a form of payment for a hunting safari.

quote:

The Central African Republic has become the first country in Africa to adopt Bitcoin as a payment currency. In a worldwide first, the National Assembly unanimously adopted the bill to help put the country’s plan for economic recovery and peacebuilding on track.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
El Salvador and CAR are 2 of the most unstable and dangerous countries on earth. The fact that they embrace crypto raises a red flag for me. Guess I’m just too old school…..

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Announcement yesterday that worlds largest Bitcoin minining facility to be built very close to my place…guess they figure it’s going to stick around.

https://www.corsicanadailysun....9f-433cdab92743.html

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Kingsview Safaris:
We accept Crypto currency as a form of payment for a hunting safari.

Hope that works well for you. Are there specific coins you limit payment to?

It may be a great way to market to a younger generation of hunter now. If my son was paying to take his poor dad on hunts, instead of the other way around, I know this would be his preferred way to pay.

Is crypto gaining a footing in the East Cape? Is it used more in PE or urban areas than rural areas? Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
I know next to nothing about crypto currency. I did spend a little time on-line doing research. My research led to more questions than answers. But I did take away a few things. Safety of storing crypto currency. Transferring funds via crypto seems fairly strait forward. Thus, it would seem to me a safe way to pay outfitters without having to carry large sums of cash. Another convenience would be not having to use a bank to transfer funds.
Perhaps somewhere down the road a seminar at the hunting conventions might be in order. What are folk's thoughts.

Interesting question Tim, but from my perspective, I don't think so.
As an operator myself, I would never say never to accepting it personally, but I also need the cash flow to pay land and concession owners. Many of them are black Africans who uses a mobile phone that can't even accept Whatsapp, Telegram or Signal messages. How are they going to deal with digital currency?

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Crypto is backed by the full faith and credit of a bunch of computers scattered alll over the globe. And how do you mine something made up of nothing but ones and zeroes on a computer monitor?? Of course it doesn’t consume any energy, right??

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Crypto is backed by the full faith and credit of a bunch of computers scattered alll over the globe. And how do you mine something made up of nothing but ones and zeroes on a computer monitor?? Of course it doesn’t consume any energy, right??

one of the biggest arguments for bitcoin is the decentralized aspect. I would argue that a bunch of computers across the world having to come to a consensus is more secure than a currency controlled by one entity/government. Now what its backed by... well that's another argument and you would also need to compare what the dollar (or other currencies) are backed by. Isn't all currency simply based on trust and faith?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Crypto is backed by the full faith and credit of a bunch of computers scattered alll over the globe. And how do you mine something made up of nothing but ones and zeroes on a computer monitor?? Of course it doesn’t consume any energy, right??

one of the biggest arguments for bitcoin is the decentralized aspect. I would argue that a bunch of computers across the world having to come to a consensus is more secure than a currency controlled by one entity/government. Now what its backed by... well that's another argument and you would also need to compare what the dollar (or other currencies) are backed by. Isn't all currency simply based on trust and faith?

That's what I've been lead to believe as well. It's supposed to be an end around governmental control.

Using Jerry's red flag logic about Bitcoin because the CAR and El Salvador accept it, I'm curious to know his opinion on the value of the US Dollar a few years ago when Zimbabwe adopted it for their currency. Did Zim's acceptance of US Dollars raise the same red flags?